It's the end of the line for numerous bus routes as MTA prepares to slash service

BY Barry Paddock and Pete Donohue

DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Friday, June 25th 2010

"It's the last stop for the X29 express bus from Coney Island to Manhattan, the X51 from Flushing to midtown and dozens of other buses making their final runs Friday.

For years, the MTA has warned budget gaps would require service cuts, but the agency never followed through on the threats.

But this time, the ax is falling - and falling especially hard on bus riders who have depended on their routes for years. More than 100 local and express routes will be eliminated, operate with fewer hours or make fewer stops.

"I'm so depressed about it," Mariella Pallazzo, 40, said of the X51's demise. "It's going to be so inconvenient."

For a decade, Pallazzo, an administrative assistant, has traveled from eastern Queens to midtown by bus.

The trip takes about 35 minutes, she said, adding despondently that alternative combinations of local and express routes she tested took three times longer.

"The No. 7 train is so crowded and packed," she lamented. "I'm thinking of driving to work."

State Sen. Martin Golden (R-Brooklyn) is expected to file a lawsuit seeking to halt at least some of the planned cuts to bus service in the borough, saying they violate the Americans with Disabilities Act, which mandates mass transit options for the disabled, sources said.

MTA officials have said the bus cuts, and lesser reductions to subway service, are needed to help close an $800 million budget gap."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/06/25/2010-06-25_wheels_fall_off_as_bus_routes_kod.html#ixzz0rswD0heR

short story for y'all.....

I boarded the 3rd-to-last run on the x51 yesterday (waited 40 mins for it on the corner of 35th/6th), but still... there were exactly 8 people on it (more than I expected, tbh) by time we left manhattan... like 5 ppl. got off along main st there...

The driver was courteous, as I said "thanks for the ride"... he said "have a good one"...

I noticed the look on his face... while I think he was sincere, he looked rather worried... I hope it's not the EOTL for him & many other drivers of the like....

but realistically, you see all these routes, and runs off other routes, gettin the axe... and you think to yourself, where is this work gonna come from for these poor guys...

cut runs, cut routes, remove bus stops, layoff bus operators... it has a direct effect.

while the suits continue to line their pockets... sucks, but it's the way of the world....

To be frank with you all, as much as I've busfanned over the years, I feel a lot more for the b/o's... than I do all the people that have to endure a longer commute b/c of the cuts... than I do the people that now wanna start "save the _____ route" campaigns, when these same people hardly, if ever, used the route in the first place....

there's a HUGE difference b/w someone having to find ways to get to work, home, shop, etc.... and someone....

being unemployed.

+1 and Thank You.

I've already started looking for work. But I know it isn't going to be easy finding something that pays enough to feed 4 mouths in this economy.

+1 and Thank You.

 

I've already started looking for work. But I know it isn't going to be easy finding something that pays enough to feed 4 mouths in this economy.

You'll be fine, I'm sure of it. It's a dog-eat-dog world sad to say. What that asshat Walder is doing is unruly and uncalled for but he'll get his, don't worry

The driver was courteous, as I said "thanks for the ride"... he said "have a good one"...

I noticed the look on his face... while I think he was sincere, he looked rather worried... I hope it's not the EOTL for him & many other drivers of the like....

The X51 is (or now WAS) a high-seniority route. That driver will still be on the payroll, but on a local bus instead.

The X51 is (or now WAS) a high-seniority route. That driver will still be on the payroll, but on a local bus instead.

Well with Walder sitting in the throne, I don't think anyone's safe, regardless of seniority.

Well with Walder sitting in the throne, I don't think anyone's safe, regardless of seniority.

In represented titles whose contracts include layoff provisions, any layoffs must be done strictly by seniority ("last in, first out"). That's why the issue with the two military bus operators was so bogus.

The X51 is (or now WAS) a high-seniority route. That driver will still be on the payroll, but on a local bus instead.

No, a middle seniority route because of Arch Street bus parking. High seniority lines are Q14 (Gone), Q16, Q26, Q74 (Gone). According to Stengel guy I saw on Q15 when I had to go to Beechhurst.

No, a middle seniority route because of Arch Street bus parking. High seniority lines are Q14 (Gone), Q16, Q26, Q74 (Gone). According to Stengel guy I saw on Q15 when I had to go to Beechhurst.

I didn't know the 16 was, but I knew of the 14, 26, and 74 (especially) being the "seniority" routes out of Stengel.....

+1 and Thank You.

 

I've already started looking for work. But I know it isn't going to be easy finding something that pays enough to feed 4 mouths in this economy.

Not a problem.... I don't let the attitudinal b/o's mar what I think of the rest of you guys.....

Keep your head held high man... you'll land something for sure :tup:

In represented titles whose contracts include layoff provisions, any layoffs must be done strictly by seniority ("last in, first out"). That's why the issue with the two military bus operators was so bogus.

It's funny how I haven't heard anything about Access A Ride as of late are they going to continue to squander money on that operation

I don't know about that I believe there was someone on here who works in tha Car Equipment Division who had twenty something years and got tha slip

Is that person in a represented title??

Is that person in a represented title??

BY Barry Paddock and Pete Donohue

DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

 

Friday, June 25th 2010

 

 

"It's the last stop for the X29 express bus from Coney Island to Manhattan, the X51 from Flushing to midtown and dozens of other buses making their final runs Friday.

 

For years, the MTA has warned budget gaps would require service cuts, but the agency never followed through on the threats.

 

But this time, the ax is falling - and falling especially hard on bus riders who have depended on their routes for years. More than 100 local and express routes will be eliminated, operate with fewer hours or make fewer stops.

 

"I'm so depressed about it," Mariella Pallazzo, 40, said of the X51's demise. "It's going to be so inconvenient."

 

For a decade, Pallazzo, an administrative assistant, has traveled from eastern Queens to midtown by bus.

 

The trip takes about 35 minutes, she said, adding despondently that alternative combinations of local and express routes she tested took three times longer.

 

"The No. 7 train is so crowded and packed," she lamented. "I'm thinking of driving to work."

 

State Sen. Martin Golden (R-Brooklyn) is expected to file a lawsuit seeking to halt at least some of the planned cuts to bus service in the borough, saying they violate the Americans with Disabilities Act, which mandates mass transit options for the disabled, sources said.

 

MTA officials have said the bus cuts, and lesser reductions to subway service, are needed to help close an $800 million budget gap."

 

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/06/25/2010-06-25_wheels_fall_off_as_bus_routes_kod.html#ixzz0rswD0heR

So guys does State Sen. Golden have a shot at winning this lawsuit especially on routes w/ high % of Senior/ADA riders that was canned ie B23 B39, B37,B51,Q76 Q79, X27, 28, 29, etc.?

Personally i state again there was room for compromise and 1 thing I can't stand among community/political leaders in NYC is the "my way or the highway approach" to discussion whether it's from a City Councilman or the chairman.:tdown::mad: Instead based on ridership and the (NYCT) budget crisis this what should have happened IMO to ease the 'doomsday cuts'?

1)Buy Short 30-35 foot buses used for instances on shuttle and routes w/ low ridership simlar to what used on LI Bus and Westchester Bee line buses. It could have been used on routes like the B23, B71, B51(non rush hour)Q76(off peak all times)and Q79 for instance.

SL's Route changes and modifications in no order:

1)Extend the B69 or as B35 suggested that is to have the B103 replace the B23 along Courtleyou between McDonald and Flatbush.

2)Maintain as weekday only routes the Q26(the Q27 unless the will use artics will be SRO 7 days a week)Q79 B37 B51 and B71.

2a)Reduce to 2-3 trips a day in each direction peak service on both the X51 and X29.

3)Maintain as full 7 day a week routes the M1 (i would have shortned it to Penn Station as compromise)M8, M50, B39 and BX34 using smaller 30-35 foot buses weekends and late evenings.

4)Maintain rush hour only service on the M104 along 42nd St. and end it at 42nd/2nd instead of the UN building. Also maintain daily M42 service to the Javits Center for Metro North and other needing a transfer there.

Rename as Gotham says which is a great idea the M104=M12.

5)Maintain Saturday X27/28 service every hour running only from about 7am-7pm. Ditto for the B2 and BX55 on Saturdays.

6)Keep overnight service on the M16, B67 and B45.

7)Have 'limited' or every other bus on the B4 run to/from Knapp St weekdays 530am-11pm and weekends 8am-11pm. All other trips start/end at Sheapshead station.

8)Flip Flop the new M5 and M104 terminals in Northern Manhattan w/ the M104 going to the GW Bridge area while the M5 ends at CCNY at 135th/Amsterdam.

9)Have the BX28 serve *all of Coop City* instead of parts w/ new BX38 scheme to avoid confusion.

10)Have the B64 return to serve Stillwell Terminal and give a free 2nd transfer at 14th Ave/86th for former riders going to the 86th St coordior and for transfer to the SI buses.

11)Return every other B8 to terminate at 95th St station since quiet a number of ppl. transfer to/from the S53, 79 and 93.

Reactions?:eek:

1)Buy Short 30-35 foot buses used for instances on shuttle and short distance routes on LI Bus and Westchester Bee line buses. It could have been used on routes like the B23, B71, B51(non rush hour)Q76(off peak all times)and Q79 for instance.

This'll NEVER happen. We are not Bee-Line. And in the instance that a 40-footer bus fails and an extra has to come out on the road, riders aren't going to be too pleased getting on a bus with less seating. or standing room. :tdown:!!!!

This'll NEVER happen. We are not Bee-Line. And in the instance that a 40-footer bus fails and an extra has to come out on the road, riders aren't going to be too pleased getting on a bus with less seating. or standing room. :tdown:!!!!

LRG it's used in big cities as well like San Diego, LA, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, etc on their shorter and low usage routes. Nothing personal LRG are you against change? You look at things only from a NYC view. And Chicago is America's 2nd largest mass transit system that includes a subway. I was using Bee Line for a local NY area example of how a smaller size bus can work. It would never and should never be placed on a route like the Bx 12 B46 Q44 or B41 for instance.

I rather have a short 3o-35 foot buses on a low usage route then no bus at all.

Ahhh I'm gonna miss those MCIs and Vikings coming down Sanford Avenue... When I used to go to school in the mornings those Vikings were always out, 996, 997 and 998... Good times, good times...

NYTimes has posted an SWF interactive version of the ridership/cost/cuts chart:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/06/26/nyregion/20100626-nyc-bus-service.html

So guys does State Sen. Golden have a shot at winning this lawsuit especially on routes w/ high % of Senior/ADA riders that was canned ie B23 B39, B37,B51,Q76 Q79, X27, 28, 29, etc.?

 

Personally i state again there was room for compromise and 1 thing I can't stand among community/political leaders in NYC is the "my way or the highway approach" to discussion whether it's from a City Councilman or the chairman.:tdown::mad: Instead based on ridership and the (NYCT) budget crisis this what should have happened IMO to ease the 'doomsday cuts'?

 

1)Buy Short 30-35 foot buses used for instances on shuttle and routes w/ low ridership simlar to what used on LI Bus and Westchester Bee line buses. It could have been used on routes like the B23, B71, B51(non rush hour)Q76(off peak all times)and Q79 for instance.

 

SL's Route changes and modifications in no order:

1)Extend the B69 or as B35 suggested that is to have the B103 replace the B23 along Courtleyou between McDonald and Flatbush.

 

2)Maintain as weekday only routes the Q26(the Q27 unless the will use artics will be SRO 7 days a week)Q79 B37 B51 and B71.

 

2a)Reduce to 2-3 trips a day in each direction peak service on both the X51 and X29.

 

3)Maintain as full 7 day a week routes the M1 (i would have shortned it to Penn Station as compromise)M8, M50, B39 and BX34 using smaller 30-35 foot buses weekends and late evenings.

 

4)Maintain rush hour only service on the M104 along 42nd St. and end it at 42nd/2nd instead of the UN building. Also maintain daily M42 service to the Javits Center for Metro North and other needing a transfer there.

Rename as Gotham says which is a great idea the M104=M12.

 

 

5)Maintain Saturday X27/28 service every hour running only from about 7am-7pm. Ditto for the B2 and BX55 on Saturdays.

 

6)Keep overnight service on the M16, B67 and B45.

 

7)Have 'limited' or every other bus on the B4 run to/from Knapp St weekdays 530am-11pm and weekends 8am-11pm. All other trips start/end at Sheapshead station.

 

8)Flip Flop the new M5 and M104 terminals in Northern Manhattan w/ the M104 going to the GW Bridge area while the M5 ends at CCNY at 135th/Amsterdam.

 

9)Have the BX28 serve *all of Coop City* instead of parts w/ new BX38 scheme to avoid confusion.

 

10)Have the B64 return to serve Stillwell Terminal and give a free 2nd transfer at 14th Ave/86th for former riders going to the 86th St coordior and for transfer to the SI buses.

 

11)Return every other B8 to terminate at 95th St station since quiet a number of ppl. transfer to/from the S53, 79 and 93.

 

Reactions?:eek:

No marty is getting tha boot you know they up in albany think its a game because they are either chauffeured or drive them selves it's time for tha constituents to wake up it's to little to late to try and act on something he's a phony trying to show the public that he cares what a farce there needs to be a call to action

And sadly the voting public as a whole (not everyone of course)will be idiots and a majority of the "Albany Country Club" will be re-elected IMO. Only a few will voted off. Thus the same game of 1)Upstate vs. Downstate 'war' 2)Short changing w/ less funding the lifeline of the entire NYC region the .

:mad::tdown:

So guys does State Sen. Golden have a shot at winning this lawsuit especially on routes w/ high % of Senior/ADA riders that was canned ie B23 B39, B37,B51,Q76 Q79, X27, 28, 29, etc.?

 

Personally i state again there was room for compromise and 1 thing I can't stand among community/political leaders in NYC is the "my way or the highway approach" to discussion whether it's from a City Councilman or the chairman.:tdown::mad: Instead based on ridership and the (NYCT) budget crisis this what should have happened IMO to ease the 'doomsday cuts'?

 

1)Buy Short 30-35 foot buses used for instances on shuttle and routes w/ low ridership simlar to what used on LI Bus and Westchester Bee line buses. It could have been used on routes like the B23, B71, B51(non rush hour)Q76(off peak all times)and Q79 for instance.

 

SL's Route changes and modifications in no order:

1)Extend the B69 or as B35 suggested that is to have the B103 replace the B23 along Courtleyou between McDonald and Flatbush.

 

2)Maintain as weekday only routes the Q26(the Q27 unless the will use artics will be SRO 7 days a week)Q79 B37 B51 and B71.

 

2a)Reduce to 2-3 trips a day in each direction peak service on both the X51 and X29.

 

3)Maintain as full 7 day a week routes the M1 (i would have shortned it to Penn Station as compromise)M8, M50, B39 and BX34 using smaller 30-35 foot buses weekends and late evenings.

 

4)Maintain rush hour only service on the M104 along 42nd St. and end it at 42nd/2nd instead of the UN building. Also maintain daily M42 service to the Javits Center for Metro North and other needing a transfer there.

Rename as Gotham says which is a great idea the M104=M12.

 

 

5)Maintain Saturday X27/28 service every hour running only from about 7am-7pm. Ditto for the B2 and BX55 on Saturdays.

 

6)Keep overnight service on the M16, B67 and B45.

 

7)Have 'limited' or every other bus on the B4 run to/from Knapp St weekdays 530am-11pm and weekends 8am-11pm. All other trips start/end at Sheapshead station.

 

8)Flip Flop the new M5 and M104 terminals in Northern Manhattan w/ the M104 going to the GW Bridge area while the M5 ends at CCNY at 135th/Amsterdam.

 

9)Have the BX28 serve *all of Coop City* instead of parts w/ new BX38 scheme to avoid confusion.

 

10)Have the B64 return to serve Stillwell Terminal and give a free 2nd transfer at 14th Ave/86th for former riders going to the 86th St coordior and for transfer to the SI buses.

 

11)Return every other B8 to terminate at 95th St station since quiet a number of ppl. transfer to/from the S53, 79 and 93.

 

Reactions?:eek:

Point #1) I agree with LRG... this aint happening...

it would've been easier & cheaper to simply keep those routes & run them during whatever necessary times where it'd allow for maximal ridership on those respective routes.... with the current buses in our fleet....

than it would be to buy buses & run them @ the same maximal times of ridership....

If we already had shorter buses, they would've been used on those routes you list, over the 40'-ers anyway....

------

Idea #1) that wasn't my original idea, but I do agree with it.

2) I still say the MTA was justified in cutting the b37... everything else, I agree with...

2a) don't know enough about x51 usage to comment...

and the x29, even cutting service in half would've sufficed on that line... despite what one person kept saying about the route, ridership WAS increasing....

3) The M1 running on 30-35 foot buses? you serious....

anyway, see what I said for point #1

4) Disagree... I still think the MTA is right w/ this one...

only thing I would add to the M42 is artics... it may end up needing them...

5) iono, maybe run 'em like this:

- 9am-2pm towards manhattan on hourly headways...

- 11am-2pm towards brooklyn on hourly headways...

NO SERVICE in either direction, until...

5pm-8pm towards manhattan on hourly headways...

5pm-10pm towards brooklyn on hourly headways...

this way, you give people time to work/shop in manhattan... while not running as many nearly empty buses b/w those same times (which, in this scenario would be b/w 2-5pm)

6) agreed, but to what extent?

7) I don't agree w/ how you want to do it... but I agree w/ the premise of retaining B4 service east of Coney Island av...

8) yeah, that was a good idea by Gotham Bus...

9) agree with at least ONE route serving all parts of co-op city (since the bx28 is more prevalent, it could be that route)...

....but I do side w/ the MTA in that, not every route that ventured in co-op, had to serve all parts of co-op....

10) as much as I would like for that to happen full time, at the bare minimum, have a select few number of runs that runs to stillwell...

11) agreed... even though they beefed up service on the B70, I still wouldn't trust it.... that, and waiting around hospital property to xfer to another bus... I've always been iffy about that...

how is it setup now; only late night B8's will serve 95th st? not much of a compromise if you ask me.... that's not when the usage is at....

B35 good points. I did a mistype and never meant to say the M1 should ever use 30-35 foot buses. I meant that the Southbound M1 terminal as a comproise since the M3 has been extended down to Houston could have been Penn Station 7 days a week.

And IMO Believe only extended the b8 to/from 95th late evenings/overnights as compromise to keep ppl. in Bay Ridge area quiet so there is a 24/7 link between the station at 95th, and transfer to the SI Buses S53. S79 does not run currently between appx. 1230am-530am.

Also bro(B35) 2)you X27/28 is not a bad idea. That when 90% of those weekend riders mainly use those buses. That way it would better use the buses and not run wasteful trips wasting the MTA lots of monies. However the only negative to your X27/28 is that a few would complain the schdule on Saturdays is confusing. Either that schedule B35 you sugegsted or Hourly Saturday service would have been fair.

FYI. I would revise that morning X27-28 service to be from 8am-11am Manhattan Bound.

This is similar to Saturday Bee Line Westchester bus#-15 that runs 2-3 round trips on Saturdays between Peekskill and White Plains.

3)I would have kept the current 1-hour headways on the B67 and B45 for this primese. That is a long walk to the nearest bus line. The B45 serves Interfaith Hopstial and those public projects on Albany/Bergen which now they no longer have a direct bus to Downtown Brooklyn.

Ditto for the B67 the only bus that serves in front of Methoidst Hosptial. The new merged B61/77 is 4 blocks away.

LRG it's used in big cities as well like San Diego, LA, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, etc on their shorter and low usage routes. Nothing personal LRG are you against change? You look at things only from a NYC view. And Chicago is America's 2nd largest mass transit system that includes a subway. I was using Bee Line for a local NY area example of how a smaller size bus can work. It would never and should never be placed on a route like the Bx 12 B46 Q44 or B41 for instance.

I rather have a short 3o-35 foot buses on a low usage route then no bus at all.

We are not like other cities; we are New York City. 35-foot models won't fix the issue either as operational costs have to be considered, especially since Orion and Nova don't make >40-foot models for their current respective NG and LFS models. And other companies that do make them don't want to deal with MTA. Like Wal-Mart, it'll never happen!!!

We are not like other cities; we are New York City.

 

35-foot models won't fix the issue either as operational costs have to be considered, especially since Orion and Nova don't make >40-foot models for their current respective NG and LFS models. And other companies that do make them don't want to deal with MTA. Like Wal-Mart, it'll never happen!!!

Good point.

B35 good points. I did a mistype and never meant to say the M1 should ever use 30-35 foot buses. I meant that the Southbound M1 terminal as a comproise since the M3 has been extended down to Houston could have been Penn Station 7 days a week.

 

And IMO Believe only extended the b8 to/from 95th late evenings/overnights as compromise to keep ppl. in Bay Ridge area quiet so there is a 24/7 link between the station at 95th, and transfer to the SI Buses S53. S79 does not run currently between appx. 1230am-530am.

I'm glad you brought that up as the S79 would be a perfect candidate for late night service rather than the S78. The S74 and S78 share the same terminals and they're quite redundant somewhat. I'd have the S79 run at night instead and the S78 discontinued at night.

Also bro(B35) 2)you X27/28 is not a bad idea. That when 90% of those weekend riders mainly use those buses. That way it would better use the buses and not run wasteful trips wasting the MTA lots of monies. However the only negative to your X27/28 is that a few would complain the schdule on Saturdays is confusing. Either that schedule B35 you sugegsted or Hourly Saturday service would have been fair.

FYI. I would revise that morning X27-28 service to be from 8am-11am Manhattan Bound.

Pulling the X27/28 on weekends was in my opinion a good idea. The only reason they added the X27/28 on weekends in the first place was due to the construction on the Manhattan bridge to provide an alternative. Then when work was done they kept it. The good thing is that it will still continue to operate all day on weekdays in both directions. But I don't think it's needed on weekends.

And FTR, 30/35-foot buses wouldn't help as they'd only increase operational costs. The solution would not to run shorter buses but to reduce frequencies on the lines that do see reasonable usage.