exseed Posted December 21, 2009 Share #1 Posted December 21, 2009 I heard that the MTA was testing double decker buses last year. What happened after that? I hope the MTA eventually replaces the artics with them because they're space efficient and cheaper that artics. (I heard that they cost 600k while the artics cost 900k.) Actually, in London, where double decker buses are ubiquitous, people complained when they introduced artics because they often blocked intersections and were less safe than other buses. Now, London is phasing them out. Here are some articles: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/johnson-ditches-londons-bendy-buses-1054433.html http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/arts/article-23366997-bendy-bus-is-branded-a-villain.do Anyway, hopefully the MTA will get some of these... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_Gemini_2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Dennis_Enviro400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted December 21, 2009 Share #2 Posted December 21, 2009 Sure lets have people die from being on the upper level crashing into a tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan05979 Posted December 21, 2009 Share #3 Posted December 21, 2009 I heard that the MTA was testing double decker buses last year. What happened after that? I hope the MTA eventually replaces the artics with them because they're space efficient and cheaper that artics. (I heard that they cost 600k while the artics cost 900k.) Actually, in London, where double decker buses are ubiquitous, people complained when they introduced artics because they often blocked intersections and were less safe than other buses. Now, London is phasing them out. Here are some articles: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/johnson-ditches-londons-bendy-buses-1054433.html http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/arts/article-23366997-bendy-bus-is-branded-a-villain.do Anyway, hopefully the MTA will get some of these... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_Gemini_2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Dennis_Enviro400 how does 1 artic bus cost almost 1 million dollars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
via White Plains Road Posted December 21, 2009 Share #4 Posted December 21, 2009 how does 1 artic bus cost almost 1 million dollars? I would like to know that myself. I just love how ppl always finding faults with NFI Artics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exseed Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted December 21, 2009 Here's the article: http://gothamist.com/2008/09/09/open_wide_for_the_mta_double_decker.php Also, if you look here under "How the Hybrid Electric System Works" you'll see that a New Flyer DE40LF costs about $780,000 (the price shown on the website is in CD i'm assuming). http://www.bctransit.com/regions/kel/news/hybrid_electric.cfm Judging from that, the price seems right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattTrain Posted December 21, 2009 Share #6 Posted December 21, 2009 Double Deck buses are cool, but many routes travel underneath elevated lines and roadways and there's height restrictions, I don't see this is a good idea. Articulated buses are fine, Double deckers wouldn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted December 21, 2009 Share #7 Posted December 21, 2009 When I rode Vanhool Low-Floor Double-Decker Bus on last day, testing on X30, and trees weren't rim, but I was on upper level, front seat and it kept hitting trees. It was very scare when I head tree hit bus. I was also afraid when I took tour on Big Taxi Tour Double-Decker Bus. When bus was going was changing from 7th Av to Broadway via 49th St, I thought my head will hit Times Sq Shuffle sign. Speaking of Double-Decker buses, what are average heights of following buses. 1. New York Grayline Sightseeing- I see not-in-service travel in Lincoln Tunnel often. 2. Big Taxi Tour Double-Decker Bus was using lower level of Queensboro Bridge. 3. City Sight NY- Double Decker Bus- Where their headquarter is. 4. MegaBus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted December 21, 2009 Share #8 Posted December 21, 2009 how does 1 artic bus cost almost 1 million dollars? I wanna know that exact same thing cuz the OGs are about 250k (I forgot where I read it from) and the NGs are about 500k (again, I forgot where I read it from) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted December 21, 2009 Share #9 Posted December 21, 2009 I wanna know that exact same thing cuz the OGs are about 250k (I forgot where I read it from) and the NGs are about 500k (again, I forgot where I read it from) Wrong figures..... Here is the right one: - Orion V 40 foot standard floor diesel: $300,000 to $400,000 - Orion VII low floor (2001-2007 / Next Generation) 40 foot CNG fuel: $325,000 to $400,00 - Orion VII low floor (2001-2007 / Next Generation) 40 foot diesel eletric hybrid: $540,000 to $560,000 - MCI D4500CT coach bus, diesel: $475,000 to $600,000 - MTA's New Flyer D60HF standard floor articulated, diesel: $600,000 - New Flyer D60LFR Hybrid: between $1 to 2 million. - Van Hool's double decker: $650,000 ------------------------------------------- how does 1 artic bus cost almost 1 million dollars? That because, articulated has 2 sections.... more like 2 separate buses into 1 long 60 foot bus. ------------------------------------------- Double Deck buses are cool, but many routes travel underneath elevated lines and roadways and there's height restrictions, I don't see this is a good idea. Articulated buses are fine, Double deckers wouldn't work. I completely disagree, Double deckers have very high capacity, great 360 degree view on the top, ridership draw because of the huge bus. Even though there are some drawbacks on double decker bus because of the height. Manhattan can handle so does parts of NYC in other boroughs without the height restrictions. Double decker buses should work on heavy ridership with free clearance issues. They should have order double decker buses with dual staircase and place it on the M15 SBS route. Articulates have drawbacks due to the legth of the bus, traffic, maintenance, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted December 21, 2009 Share #10 Posted December 21, 2009 Hem, that double decker might've been worth the cost, so long as the bus doesn't deal with many tunnels/bridges/height issues in general. I would've thought it could've done well on the Manahttan avenue routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princejv26 Posted December 21, 2009 Share #11 Posted December 21, 2009 I drove a vanhool double decker and they are sweet. Those buses are 13ft 2in tall and all elevated train lines are above 13 ft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted December 21, 2009 Share #12 Posted December 21, 2009 Sure lets have people die from being on the upper level crashing into a tunnel. You OVERTHINK. MTA would be worried about B/O's driving the MCI buses into height clearance on FDR Drive. I drove a vanhool double decker and they are sweet. Those buses are 13ft 2in tall and all elevated train lines are above 13 ft You should pay a visit to Brooklyn. Not all elevated lines have above 13 ft. Look at Brighton line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted December 21, 2009 Share #13 Posted December 21, 2009 I drove a vanhool double decker and they are sweet. Those buses are 13ft 2in tall and all elevated train lines are above 13 ft That's not necessarily true. The BMT Eastern Division averages about 12' to 13' and there are some parts that are 11' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted December 21, 2009 Share #14 Posted December 21, 2009 Where does the(MTA) get the money for a million dollar bus? You know guys this isn`t the first time tested double decker buses.The (NYCT) back in the late 70s also tested double decker buses as well.I forgot the manufacturer name though.:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted December 21, 2009 Share #15 Posted December 21, 2009 You OVERTHINK. MTA would be worried about B/O's driving the MCI buses into height clearance on FDR Drive. You should pay a visit to Brooklyn. Not all elevated lines have above 13 ft. Look at Brighton line... In the cases where buses pass through certain routes where there are clearance issues, they'll be banned from the route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted December 21, 2009 Share #16 Posted December 21, 2009 Where does the(MTA) get the money for a million dollar bus? MTA did, the expensive New Flyer Industries D60HF articulated, each cost $900,000 each. You know guys this isn`t the first time tested double decker buses.The (NYCT) back in the late 70s also tested double decker buses as well.I forgot the manufacturer name though.:confused: Leyland, that bus company got swallow up by Volvo Bus. Nova bus in North America is a parent company of Volvo bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob0922 Posted December 21, 2009 Share #17 Posted December 21, 2009 The brief & not well thought out idea of NYCTA duble decker buses is a dead issue. they are impracticle for a couple of reasons. 1) Boarding & discharging passengers will take entirely too much time. If a customer is on the top deck, getting off entails coming down the steps then making it past other passengers to the exit. The operatr will miss several lights, fall way behind schedule & miss at minimum, one round trip. 2) The cost factor is prohibitive. Each bus will cost more than the buses currently in service with Gray Line & NY Sightseeing. ($750,000 plus any modifications to the basic interior design.) 3) They would be restricted to certain routes where overheight & turns do not present problems. 4) The operator would be out of the direct sight of any illegal or, prohibited activity.(unless the bus was equipped with a camera monitor for the upper level) There are several other concerns I could come up with but, I am sure that you get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob0922 Posted December 21, 2009 Share #18 Posted December 21, 2009 The brief & not well thought out idea of NYCTA double decker buses is a dead issue. they are impracticle for several reasons. 1) Boarding & discharging passengers will take entirely too much time. If a customer is on the top deck, getting off entails coming down the steps then making it past other passengers to the exit. The operatr will miss several lights, fall way behind schedule & miss at minimum, one round trip. 2) The cost factor is prohibitive. Each bus will cost more than the buses currently in service with Gray Line & NY Sightseeing. ($750,000 plus any modifications to the basic interior design.) 3) They would be restricted to certain routes where overheight & turns do not present problems. 4) The operator would be out of the direct sight of any illegal or, prohibited activity.(unless the bus was equipped with a camera monitor for the upper level) There are several other concerns I could come up with but, I am sure that you get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan05979 Posted December 21, 2009 Share #19 Posted December 21, 2009 Wrong figures..... Here is the right one: - Orion V 40 foot standard floor diesel: $300,000 to $400,000 - Orion VII low floor (2001-2007 / Next Generation) 40 foot CNG fuel: $325,000 to $400,00 - Orion VII low floor (2001-2007 / Next Generation) 40 foot diesel eletric hybrid: $540,000 to $560,000 - MCI D4500CT coach bus, diesel: $600,000 to $700,000 - MTA's New Flyer D60HF standard floor articulated, diesel: $900,000 - New Flyer D60LFR Hybrid: between $1 to 2 million. - Van Hool's double decker: $650,000 Your prices are way off my friend. Not even a MCI loaded to the balls with luxury items cost $700 thousand dollars. The avarege mci for the mta probably cost around $150k to 250k I dont think theres any bus in this world thats cost $900k And if the mta spent 900k on 1 bus, I can sell the MTA the brooklyn bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted December 21, 2009 Share #20 Posted December 21, 2009 Where does the(MTA) get the money for a million dollar bus? You know guys this isn`t the first time tested double decker buses.The (NYCT) back in the late 70s also tested double decker buses as well.I forgot the manufacturer name though.:confused: Your prices are way off my friend. Not even a MCI loaded to the balls with luxury items cost $700 thousand dollars. The avarege mci for the mta probably cost around $150k to 250k I dont think theres any bus in this world thats cost $900k And if the mta spent 900k on 1 bus, I can sell the MTA the brooklyn bridge. I had to fix some of the figures they were in Canadian prices any way... MCI D4500 cost around $500,000 right now New Flyer D60HF that MTA pays around $600,000... The hybrid artics cost a million dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOB2RTO Posted December 22, 2009 Share #21 Posted December 22, 2009 Actually the average MCI D-4500 does cost around $500,000. I drove for a charter company. They are very popular, and supply n demand makes those buses cost that much. $150,000 is waaayyyyy off the numbers, my friend......... Rob is right, of the reasons why MTA would never use those for SBS, and why NovaBus will be the new high capacity bus manufacturer, for high capacity buses. That Van-Hool can seat 81, but an artic holds 120 persons. It's not about everyone getting a seat. On local routes most people usually travel a short distance, while very few go long distances. If most traveled further, MTA could just get suburban seating like Bee-Line (WCDOT), and NJT uses, on their artics. The New Flyer numbers are correct, at about around $600,000 for their articulateds, when MTA bought them. Of course now it should be more expensive, since they don't make that model anymore.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted December 22, 2009 Share #22 Posted December 22, 2009 It would take like 3 hours for a double-decker to let its passengers off if needed...:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted December 22, 2009 Share #23 Posted December 22, 2009 It would take like 3 hours for a double-decker to let its passengers off if needed...:eek: Another BS post, go to any cities that have double deckers using local bus routes. The dwell times are the about the same as to any other heavy local city bus routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo M 201 Posted December 22, 2009 Share #24 Posted December 22, 2009 Er, hello, I'm about to end this and be straight forward. Double decker won't work for the MTA, period (in local terms). Its obvious reasons too, dwell times, clearance issues. The MTA is just too lazy to even attempt to fix for all that. On the express runs for the routes from SI via NJ, maybe. Needed? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob60 Posted December 22, 2009 Share #25 Posted December 22, 2009 I lived in Hong Kong back in the 90's and almost all buses ther were double deckers of varying lengths. The bottom of the steps to the upper level and the rear door are aligned so passengers coming down the stairs use the rear door to exit. As a matter of fact all passengers use the rear door for exiting which has become ingrained in passengers - something badly needed in New York. Of course in the double deckers not many lower level seats are forward of the rear door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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