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Iamthe1

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The problem with the MTA is that they feel that they do not have to communicate with those of us who ride the system, period. There were no announcements about the meetings except on the buses and if they were so interested in the public then the meetings should have be held at venues that are located on the route itself like the public libraries located on Bedford Avenue and Nostrand Avenue near the junction and between Avenues W & X. They said there were discussions with the community boards which unless your read the "City Record" which 1/1000 of 1% have ever read (it is available in the public library) or knew that it existed, you would never know if there was a community board meeting or what is on the agenda (The agenda is not posted on the internet) . In this multicultural and multilingual city, there were no postings in Chinese, Russian, Creole or Spanish to help explain what was happening on the route and to use the machines for boarding. (If my memory is correct, there are instructions in foreign languages on the machines itself).

 

Something else that comes to mind is the double standard as Avenue X is a SBS stop but not Avenues L & R. This brings up the question as to why even though the three stops have schools and are transfer points for riders. The only reason that I can think is that the B/44 starts and terminates buses at Avenue X as riders could have transferred at Avenue U from the B/36. I know that the Avenue L stop was bought up at the second meeting but I do not know if the school issue was discussed at the meeting in 2011.

 

There is more as the other SBS routes do not have two different types of buses as there are on the B/44. It makes no sense and interestingly wait till the first snow or ice storm and then try to get an artic. All service will be local but the mess with just the 40 ft. buses will impact negatively on the other major routes running out of the garage. The timing (why November) of the roll out, the way the schedules were done leads me to believe that the entire project was not well thought out but was just designed to take the federal money. 

 

What disturbed me throughout this entire process is the Marie Antioinette attitude of the MTA personnel toward the riders and those of us who offered legitimate suggestions. It is like they are saying to us "let them eat cake" in reference to the masses if they had nothing. It is nothing that our suggestions were worth even though we are the riders and the residents of the community that are supposed to be served by the SBS.  It is like they are superior to us which I find offensive as the one in the heavens is the only one superior to us. The problem here (and for that matter throughout government on all levels today) is that this is the attitude that has been adapted by many of our "leaders"  and their underlings are just following orders to have their tickets for higher level positions punched.. 

 

Yes, the B/44 SBS it will eventually work but my feeling remains that had the MTA listened to us from the beginning, it would have worked in a few months, not years. I know that other SBS routes are on the drawing boards but what happens when the federal money disappears and it is back to local funding? Think about it!

 

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The changes were poorly communicated to the riding public. It's not so obvious here because we are all transit enthusiasts, but given that many stops were cut and that there was a route revision, there should have been posters on the buses at least a month ahead of time.

 

Why do people keep blaming the (MTA) for "Communication" problems?

 

Why not blame the riders for not being proactive? They saw the changes, I'm sure they read the signs, there were people giving out pamphlets that detailed the service, all in the weeks before service started. Then there's a little something called Google. 

 

it seems that the majority think MTA effed up by not communicating. it also seems that a minority think the people effed up by not informing themselves. I cannot really pick a side here..

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Before everyone gets too caught up in the pros and cons of the B44 SBS stop and think about the (MTA)s promises and the actual use of the B44 by real riders. To all my B/O brethren out there this is not a slap at you. You work hard and I appreciate you all. The (MTA) goes on and on about time saved by the SBS route. Unless you are boarding at an SBS stop in south Brooklyn and traveling to another SBS stop in northern Brooklyn or Bridge Plaza itself the numbers are basically bogus. In other words your "home" stop was or is an SBS stop and your final destination was or is an SBS stop quite a distance away, ie, Ave U- Flushing Ave. All other riders either have to walk to an SBS stop and /or walk from an SBS stop. That's added time no matter how you slice it. If that rider must transfer to another bus or train to continue to their destination where is that savings? Wait until the ridership learns the SBS system and how to use it. IMO the average bus ride isn't long enough for the time saving benefits to outweigh the negatives. Simply put the real savings go to the (MTA). I'd also ask how long before the (MTA) truncates B49 service to no longer serve Rogers and Bedford Avenues ? My guess is 24 months maximum but if things work out with the present ridership base north of Flatbush-Nostrand to Fulton Street the (MTA) will drop the hammer after 12 months. Carry on.

You said everything I've been saying and thinking for the past ten years, but no one would listen. The average ride is just too short on the B44 to make much of a difference. The MTA kept saying 15 minutes would be saved, but that assumed you took the bus from end to end. Now we find out once the schedules came out that no bus will even make that trip. There is no local north of Flushing. They said the average savings would be six minutes. I asked if that included walking time. They answered "Of course" but presented zero documentation to prove that. They said they used a model, but revealed no details about it like they used 13 year old 2000 census data. If the six minutes does not include the additional walks to and from the SBS stops, then the typical passenger saves zero time.

 

Only the long distance passengers save like those going from DeKalb to Brooklyn College. But how much would that trip save over the B38 to Nevins to the 2 or 5? When they realized that six minutes isn't all that much, they started saying 20% because it sounds more. But its also a lie. You can talk minutes when you are referring to part of a trip, but once you use percentages you have to refer to origin and destination, not the SBS portion of the trip. Your trip isn't from Avenue U to the Junction. Your trip is from Avenue U to Manhattan. The 25% you may save on SBS (if you are including the extra walks) may be reduced to 10 or 15% when you consider the entire trip. To say your "trip" is reduced by 20%" is very misleading, unless you mean the entire trip. Either way, it's still only six minutes.

 

That's why I felt that an east west route should have been the first SBS route. Even the B46 from Kings Plaza to Eastern Parkway would make more sense, but not all the way to Williamsburg. That's ridiculous. The Limited is just fine.

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That's why I felt that an east west route should have been the first SBS route. Even the B46 from Kings Plaza to Eastern Parkway would make more sense, but not all the way to Williamsburg. That's ridiculous. The Limited is just fine.

if it would have taken so much time for the B44 SBS to start after that first SBS route that would not have been the B44 if you had your druthers, then I have to disagree with you. the B44 SBS was needed ASAP because of the need to have fast and frequent bus service on Nostrand most hours of the day at all southbound SBS stops south of St. John's or Empire so that people who have to get to IRT Nostrand Ave stations and connecting buses at those IRT Nostrand Ave stations can take advantage of the  (3) or local  (4) to B44 SBS connection (B44 local is only good when traffic and ridership/bus stop dwell times along Nostrand are low) when the  (2) train is acting up. and that problem with the  (2) train has been going on for decades and probably will not be fixed for another 20 to 30 years. you should see how much fun was had here, especially recently: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/43163-can-they-change-the-weekend-headways-on-the-2345-and-possibly-the-6/

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So whats the latest new of this mess ?

 

I drove 44 Local last Sunday, it was a mess.

Monday, Tuesday i was off.

Wednesday, Thursday Friday and tomorrow i am out sick .

 

Not looking forward to Sunday. Or is it all better and i will have fun on local for the rest of the pick

 

 

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So whats the latest new of this mess ?

 

I drove 44 Local last Sunday, it was a mess.

Monday, Tuesday i was off.

Wednesday, Thursday Friday and tomorrow i am out sick .

 

Not looking forward to Sunday. Or is it all better and i will have fun on local for the rest of the pick

How was New York Avenue's former LTD stop? Did passengers were looking for B44 LTD, not knowing B44 LTD/SBS relocated to Rogers Av?

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So whats the latest new of this mess ?

 

I drove 44 Local last Sunday, it was a mess.

Monday, Tuesday i was off.

Wednesday, Thursday Friday and tomorrow i am out sick .

 

Not looking forward to Sunday. Or is it all better and i will have fun on local for the rest of the pick

 

 

You actually picked that? You a brave man...

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SBS44 started on 11/17/13

First two days were pure hell, especially after the SBS ambassadors left at 7pm on the first two days, when they should have stayed til the last SBS bus left from the bridge. 

 

It was confusion and frustration for the passengers.

However things seem to smooth out a whole lot for SBS on Thursday & Friday (as I'm off Tuesday & Wednesday) -- many folks knew to get their tickets before boarding, while are some are still unaware of the new service. Usually at Fulton Street, southbound, it takes 5 minutes to load an entire bus, the traditional way; but with SBS, I was in and out in 30 seconds with a fully loaded artic. Very smooth.

 

They even added strip maps along the bus for passengers to know their way.

 

For the local buses, it was just a nightmare all week, as they are mostly on 10-12 minute headways, and with the eliminated LTD service along NY Avenue, they will need to add more local buses to compensate until everyone starts learning express is runninng down Rogers Avenue. And I did pick up quite a bit along Rogers yesterday compared to the rest of the week -- everyone is starting to catch on. I even had a mother and two kids walking to NY Avenue, then saw my bus at St Johns and Rogers waiting on a green light, ran to get their ticket and boarded the artic trailer. This tells you more and more people are recognizing Rogers Avenue.

 

Folks have even commended the new service along Rogers as being MUCH faster.

 

All in all, the only improvement needed is local service to handle the load balancing.

That's it, so far.

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Folks have even commended the new service along Rogers as being MUCH faster.

yep, this much was never in doubt.....

 

I'm actually more interested in this:

 

....For the local buses, it was just a nightmare all week, as they are mostly on 10-12 minute headways, and with the eliminated LTD service along NY Avenue, they will need to add more local buses to compensate until everyone starts learning express is runninng down Rogers Avenue. And I did pick up quite a bit along Rogers yesterday compared to the rest of the week -- everyone is starting to catch on. I even had a mother and two kids walking to NY Avenue, then saw my bus at St Johns and Rogers waiting on a green light, ran to get their ticket and boarded the artic trailer. This tells you more and more people are recognizing Rogers Avenue.

....lol, "recognizing" Rogers av.... Good way to put it, because it's what I've been saying for years about the B49 along Rogers in my neck of the woods here...... That's how insignificant it was to riders before they decided to run 44's along it..... Now you're gonna see more ppl. xferring to 35's @ Rogers from the south (including @ the junction, which the 49 doesn't serve) in front the laundromat (meaning, for EB 35 service), because you hardly see any significant amt. of riders waiting @ Rogers for the 35.....

 

Neither of the Rogers av stops on church av (meaning, in either direction) sees decent usage.... It was like that before they threw LTD service on the 35, and it still remains so to the day....

 

The MTA is getting what they want - folks to take SBS' & to forget about 49's.

 

As for the 44 local, My question to you is....

Now that they have artics @ FLA & for utilization on the SBS', how are they utilizing the 40'-ers that used to run on the 44 LTD?

Maybe I shouldn't put it like that, so lemme ask it another way.... In other words, are these just extra buses sitting around in/around the depot, or have they moved to other depots (I wouldn't know, b/c I don't keep up on bus moves like some folks do on here) - because certainly service on the local 44 hasn't increased, and neither has service on any of the other FLA routes (41, 46, 2, 49, 31)......

 

 

Anyway, thanks for the update/breakdown/report here.

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B35:

 

Today I had a fully seated artic leaving the Junction on my first trip, northbound along Rogers, and I'm quite confident with the usage of Rogers Ave in a year or so will mimic Nostrand (in reverse, so to speak).

 

Right now, 'some' folks are just too lazy to walk over too blocks or even use a crosstown bus for the SBS usage. 

The weather seems to play a big role with folks trying to adapt to the new bus changes as it's getting quite brick outside, ya dig? lol

 

Oh, and it's funny how I brought up the local horrors, as it made it's way to NY1:

http://www.ny1.com/content/news/transit/199199/new-b44-select-bus-fails-to-meet-local-needs--riders-say

Folks will have no choice but to adapt when MTA decides (if they do) to run the local up Rogers at some point, and truncate the 49.

 

There's absolutely no reason the local buses should be on 10-12 minute headways during RUSH HOUR (northbound), as shown here: http://www.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/bkln/b044cur.pdf (every 8-10 minutes southbound, PM rush). They'll have to add wildcat buses until next pick.

 

To answer your question about the 40ft'ers, to my knowledge, it's the same way as before - except the 44 was a mixture of 40-fts and the artics for local and limited-stop service, so I think it balances out regardless (just now the artics are exclusively for SBS only).

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There's absolutely no reason the local buses should be on 10-12 minute headways during RUSH HOUR (northbound), as shown here: http://www.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/bkln/b044cur.pdf (every 8-10 minutes southbound, PM rush). They'll have to add wildcat buses until next pick.

 

what is a wildcat bus?

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B35:

 

Today I had a fully seated artic leaving the Junction on my first trip, northbound along Rogers, and I'm quite confident with the usage of Rogers Ave in a year or so will mimic Nostrand (in reverse, so to speak).

 

Right now, 'some' folks are just too lazy to walk over too blocks or even use a crosstown bus for the SBS usage. 

The weather seems to play a big role with folks trying to adapt to the new bus changes as it's getting quite brick outside, ya dig? lol

 

Oh, and it's funny how I brought up the local horrors, as it made it's way to NY1:

http://www.ny1.com/content/news/transit/199199/new-b44-select-bus-fails-to-meet-local-needs--riders-say

Folks will have no choice but to adapt when MTA decides (if they do) to run the local up Rogers at some point, and truncate the 49.

 

There's absolutely no reason the local buses should be on 10-12 minute headways during RUSH HOUR (northbound), as shown here: http://www.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/bkln/b044cur.pdf (every 8-10 minutes southbound, PM rush). They'll have to add wildcat buses until next pick.

 

To answer your question about the 40ft'ers, to my knowledge, it's the same way as before - except the 44 was a mixture of 40-fts and the artics for local and limited-stop service, so I think it balances out regardless (just now the artics are exclusively for SBS only).

....All the more reason to believe the 44 in its entirety (meaning, SBS & local service) will eventually go Nostrand/Rogers.... NY (av) will be left w/ nothing....

 

Whether they have local 44 service be put back to justifiable headways (whenever it'll run up Rogers) like it used to be when the LTD was around, remains to be seen.... I swear you'd see more locals than LTD's just being out & about around NY/Church..... Anyway, lemme try to make the point another way (not necessarily to you, but for others reading)...

 

- It'd be one thing if they cut back the 49 (to flatbush av or w/e) to have 44's run locally up rogers w/ increased headways (compared to what the current locals do, running up NY av)....

- But it would be quite another to cut back the 49 & to have the 44 local continuing to run on the headways it does now....

 

....I mean, I don't think there's anyone here that believes that the 44 local & the 49 would run up Rogers, to maintain/suffice for a justifiable frequency of local service along it.... That is not how the MTA operates... There was a lady on the 35 asking the b/o yesterday what's gonna happen to the 49 (I said to myself, this guy's a JG driver, how would he know... but that's neither here nor there)....I'm assuming this is someone that lives somewhere along/close® to Rogers.....

 

But yeh, a route like the 44 (local) to be comparable to a route like, IDK, the 64, during the rush, is embarrassing....

 

 

As for the question I asked, I see what you're saying.....

So FLA has more artics than I originally thought then, if a number of them are being used for local service as well.... Thanks.

 

 

 

what is a wildcat bus?

A bus coming off another run to do a trip that's not a part of its run..... Very different from an interline, which is scheduled.

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before MTA thinks about truncating the B49 they must consider rerouting it northbound via Foster then NYA then Fulton to terminate at Franklin, and southbound via Dean then Brooklyn then Midwood St then NYA then Foster and then follow the current route to KCC.

 

I mentioned that route on this forum over a year ago, as several may remember, and sent such a proposal to MTA. Twice. The second time I made a small correction.

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before MTA thinks about truncating the B49 they must consider rerouting it northbound via Foster then NYA then Fulton to terminate at Franklin, and southbound via Dean then Brooklyn then Midwood St then NYA then Foster and then follow the current route to KCC.

 

I mentioned that route over a year ago and sent such a proposal to MTA. Twice. The second time I made a small correction.

I suppose, but they won't do that, because that would actually mean they'd have to spend money.... The idea is to have enough riders cram onto the 44 for efficiency purposes (more riders + faster commutes, is the logic).... It would be inefficient to reroute 49's on NY av... It would be more efficient to keep local 44's on NY av & 49's on Rogers, than to do what you're mentioning w/ the 49.....Why do you think local service was lessened on the 44..... It's all a part of an end-game.

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I suppose, but they won't do that, because that would actually mean they'd have to spend money.... The idea is to have enough riders cram onto the 44 for efficiency purposes (more riders + faster commutes, is the logic).... It would be inefficient to reroute 49's on NY av... It would be more efficient to keep local 44's on NY av & 49's on Rogers, than to do what you're mentioning w/ the 49.....Why do you think local service was lessened on the 44..... It's all a part of an end-game.

A friend of mine suggested something interesting that might work. What do you guys think? Run the B44 local in two overlapping segments. Williamsburg Bridge to Brooklyn College and Fulton Street to Knapp Street. That may not cost more and would increase service in the midsection of the route where it is most needed.

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A friend of mine suggested something interesting that might work. What do you guys think? Run the B44 local in two overlapping segments. Williamsburg Bridge to Brooklyn College and Fulton Street to Knapp Street. That may not cost more and would increase service in the midsection of the route where it is most needed.

but that makes it easier for them to truncate the B49, which I think we should really try to stop.

 

I suppose, but they won't do that, because that would actually mean they'd have to spend money.... The idea is to have enough riders cram onto the 44 for efficiency purposes (more riders + faster commutes, is the logic).... It would be inefficient to reroute 49's on NY av... It would be more efficient to keep local 44's on NY av & 49's on Rogers, than to do what you're mentioning w/ the 49.....Why do you think local service was lessened on the 44..... It's all a part of an end-game.

 

on the other hand if they just make more SBS routes or cut costs in other ways that are not too terrible they can save even more money and then some of that money can be used on something like what I proposed for the B49.

 

if the following things had been done with the B44 SBS project, there would have been far fewer complaints:

 

-B44 local to Rogers

 

-B49 rerouted the way I proposed

 

-keep SBS stops at Myrtle, Gates, Bergen, "L", "R", "Z"

 

-more communication about all the changes

 

-same B44 local headways as before (with the B44 local on Rogers)

 

-same B49 headways as before or better (with the B49 on NYA)

 

I do not think other SBS routes will cause as much disruption as the B44. that being said I still think the B44 SBS is needed for several reasons I have previously stated.

 

operating costs would be lowered even more if they took away lots of street parking for personal automobiles, especially on Rogers, Bedford (north of Dean St), Nostrand (north of Flatbush Ave), and NYA.

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A friend of mine suggested something interesting that might work.

 

What do you guys think? Run the B44 local in two overlapping segments. Williamsburg Bridge to Brooklyn College and Fulton Street to Knapp Street. That may not cost more and would increase service in the midsection of the route where it is most needed.

The first part of it, is going way back to the discussions we'd have on RD (it was a part of that whole run the B36 up to the junction mess)... The second part of it, I'll admit is original (fulton to sheepshead).....

 

As far as the 2 plans in their entireties as is.... Ideally, that would make perfect sense as far as how the 44 is utilized....

(some have a similar plan to have that done w/ the Q60, but it's not as feasible as it would be w/ the B44 with how they're used...)

 

Determining how often each 44 segment would run, would be the question to have to be answered though....

This would determine how much that plan would cost, over how the way the current 44 local is ran/serviced......

 

The SBS can be kept under the 44 notation, but another question I guess that'd have to be asked is, is it time to consider splitting up the 44 local into 2 separate routes? (as opposed to running the 44 in its totality as is - with the SBS' going Nostrand/Rogers & the locals going Nostrand/New York).....

 

Discuss.

 

but that makes it easier for them to truncate the B49, which I think we should really try to stop.

While noble, I'm sorry, but again, the 49 doesn't have that usage coming from points south (of flatbush av) to points north of it....

That's the problem.

 

On top of of simply trying to stop a possible truncation of the route, we should try to spawn the increase of usage of the 49 north of flatbush av (although I don't see how).... The junction is the major advantage the 44 has over the 49; I mean, you saw this part of Acela's post:

 

"Today I had a fully seated artic leaving the Junction on my first trip, northbound along Rogers, and I'm quite confident with the usage of Rogers Ave in a year or so will mimic Nostrand (in reverse, so to speak)."

 

...and this is just within the first week of SBS on the 44.

 

But yeah, in terms of nothing but usage alone, this plan that BrooklynBus just posted makes more sense than keeping 49's intact.....

 

on the other hand if they just make more SBS routes or cut costs in other ways that are not too terrible they can save even more money and then some of that money can be used on something like what I proposed for the B49.

So in other words, hope for more cuts for other riders so that NY av can retain local service? Is that what you're conveying here....

That's not exactly the way to go either, fam....

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So in other words, hope for more cuts for other riders so that NY av can retain local service?

Not really, unless you think that taking a LTD route and converting it to SBS (try to forget about MTA using the SBS as an excuse to cut local service for purposes of this discussion) would be too much of a service cut for riders at the ends of the line, where many local stops that the LTD used to make would no longer be served by the SBS.

 

Like if they made the B46 SBS and had it stop only at "K", "N", Fillmore, and KP at one end and Myrtle, Flushing, Union Ave, and Bridge Plaza at the other and had the local serve all the cut stops at decent headways, would this be worse than doing nothing with the B46 (or doing no SBS anywhere else) or NYA?

 

The B49 would get more use north of Flatbush if they put service on Bedford in both directions and removed all legal parking for personal automobiles from that road, and either restricted private vehicle access to it or put bus lanes there or both (the remaining issue is that if a vehicle sits in the bus lane, which would have to be on the curb, for a good reason like an emergency or goods delivery or something, the bus has to move over, but this is better than the current situation I think, and Bedford does not have that many stores for there to be many delivery trucks there anyway).

 

But that would require a revolution that is unlikely to happen. Did you want to know how to increase B49 use north of Flatbush with the way it is currently set up or by altering its route?

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

Also, to BrooklynBus (and B35 also I suppose): Do you want the B44 to be split into two sections while the B49 remains as is? Or something else?

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Not really, unless you think that taking a LTD route and converting it to SBS (try to forget about MTA using the SBS as an excuse to cut local service for purposes of this discussion) would be too much of a service cut for riders at the ends of the line, where many local stops that the LTD used to make would no longer be served by the SBS.

 

Like if they made the B46 SBS and had it stop only at "K", "N", Fillmore, and KP at one end and Myrtle, Flushing, Union Ave, and Bridge Plaza at the other and had the local serve all the cut stops at decent headways, would this be worse than doing nothing with the B46 (or doing no SBS anywhere else) or NYA?

 

The B49 would get more use north of Flatbush if they put service on Bedford in both directions and removed all legal parking for personal automobiles from that road, and either restricted private vehicle access to it or put bus lanes there or both (the remaining issue is that if a vehicle sits in the bus lane, which would have to be on the curb, for a good reason like an emergency or goods delivery or something, the bus has to move over, but this is better than the current situation I think, and Bedford does not have that many stores for there to be many delivery trucks there anyway).

 

But that would require a revolution that is unlikely to happen. Did you want to know how to increase B49 use north of Flatbush with the way it is currently set up or by altering its route?

Let's not muddy the waters here, the LTD-SBS dynamic is not why I asked that question...

 

I asked that question because you implicitly gave a solution that suggests cuts be made elsewhere, (so that those monies could go towards) supporting your plan of running B49's up NY av..... For instance, why should more SBS routes be placed in the system so that the B49 run up NY av....

 

As for the question at the end there, I wanted to know how can usage be increased, period, as far as the 49 north of flatbush northbound is concerned (either by keeping it on rogers or have it diverted somewhere else, doesn't matter)..... But you answered the question anyway, with which I'll say - I can agree to an extent with more usage on the 49 if it ran bi-directionally on Bedford (compared to its usage up here on Rogers), but this is something else the MTA won't likely consider over flat out truncating the route.....

 

 

Also, to BrooklynBus (and B35 also I suppose): Do you want the B44 to be split into two sections while the B49 remains as is? Or something else?

Simply put, What I want is for the B44 is to have it remain on NY av.

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Alert: I generally think of a net service cut as being a service change that hurts more people than it helps. This DOES NOT MEAN that I think any service change that does not hurt more people than it helps does not/will not have problems that should be fixed!!

 

I reiterate that I do not think any service change that does not hurt more people than it helps does not/will not have problems that should be fixed.

 

Aside from the SBS not making many of the local stops at the ends of the line that the LTD used to make (like the M15 SBS not running local north of E 96 St or wherever the way it used to), I do not see SBS as a net service cut if the rest of the route and most of the stops are kept the same (like the M15 SBS staying on 1st/2nd Aves, and few stops being eliminated).

 

The B44 SBS is seen as a service cut because the gaps between stops in Bed-Stuy and Midwood (and Sheepshead a little) are huge. But if this were not done, then the buses would be slow and in some cases too slow because of too many stops..unless the presence of automobiles other than in-service NYCT passenger buses on the routes in question were drastically reduced and the traffic signals were made more helpful for the buses.

 

That being said, I have no personal opinion about what happens to the B44 SBS south of "H" or north of St. John's or Empire as long as it does not negatively impact service between St. John's/Empire and "H". Therefore I have no personal opinion of how slow or fast the buses should be north of St. John's/Empire or south of "H".

 

There absolutely was a net service cut when they removed local stops in Williamsburg and they have also absolutely cut net service north of Flushing and south of "U".

 

If we had a hypothetical situation in which a bus never used NYA (so basically after the roads were one-wayed in the 1950s, the northbound Nostrand Ave bus, the B44, were moved to Rogers Ave and not NYA) and they had the B44 LTD going up Rogers since the 1980s when LTD service started and then converted it to SBS and kept the stops at Myrtle, Gates, Bergen, "L", "R", and "Z", sent every local B44 from Wash Plaza to Knapp St since the B44 local bus was first created in the 1950s and had it make all local stops in Williamsburg and Sheepshead until the present, would you still call it a net service cut? Also this may sound a bit ridiculous since I am asking about such a specific hypothetical situation, but assume the B44 LTD/SBS headways and hours of operation and B44 local headways (and its 24-hour service) stayed the same from the 1980s to the present.

 

The thing is that in the hypothetical situation, I am not seeing it as a net service cut because my opinion is that if the buses are sped up enough, easily more people benefit (those at all ex-LTD stops except possibly Glenwood) from the SBS than not (those north of Flushing and south of "U" and those at Glenwood unless they eliminated parking on the s/b side of Nostrand b/w Glenwood and FB and made it a drop-off stop for the SBS) in the hypothetical situation.

 

Can you look at the current M15 SBS/local and tell me what aspects of it made/make it a service cut (net or not) compared to the old M15 LTD/local (you can look at before and/or after City Hall trips were cut if you want)? I just want to use an example so I can better understand why you think the M15 SBS is a service cut (net or not, but preferably net; I want to better understand why you think the M15 SBS is a net service cut).

 

Or just make a statement or statements that will otherwise clear things up. The way I look at some things makes things complicated for me. It is just me.

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