R179 Discussion Thread

[R32 3838]

I don't get the whole lets get rid of these cars bullshit. Unless it's something wrong with the body or frames, These are staying. will give these cars a heavy SMS and replace all the cheap shit that these cars came in with and then they'll be reliable. They did this with The R62,R62A's,R68's,R68A's, R142's and R143's and look how reliable they are now. Once that warranty expires they'll probably send them to CI or 207th st Overhaul to be worked on. By the time the R211's are midway though their delivery the first group of R179's would be ready for SMS. - Car Equipment probably already has this planned. So No these cars aren't going anywhere unless there's cracks in the frames of the cars.

[subwaycommuter1983]

15 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

I don't get the whole lets get rid of these cars bullshit. Unless it's something wrong with the body or frames, These are staying. will give these cars a heavy SMS and replace all the cheap shit that these cars came in with and then they'll be reliable. They did this with The R62,R62A's,R68's,R68A's, R142's and R143's and look how reliable they are now. Once that warranty expires they'll probably send them to CI or 207th st Overhaul to be worked on. By the time the R211's are midway though their delivery the first group of R179's would be ready for SMS. - Car Equipment probably already has this planned. So No these cars aren't going anywhere unless there's cracks in the frames of the cars.

I agree 100%. Didn't the r160's encounter issues as well when they were delivered?

The MTA will make the best lemonade out of these lemons. Just kidding!!!

I have faith that the r179's will end up being one of the most reliable cars in the system.

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

Most of these failures are isolated incidents and don't reflect the reliability of the R179s as a whole. Careless errors in assembly come to light when the cars are put under stress. 

[Far rockaway]

The R179's are good cars. They don't need to be gone. I have trust in the MTA. I understand the issues that they encountered, but i have faith that they would be reliable once they go through this carefully examination and analysis of the cars. 

[Mysterious2train]

8 hours ago, happy283 said:

Manufacturing issues stem from a root problem which is the bidding proccess. The MTA should have signed a contract with one manufacturer (in my opinion it should be Kawasaki) and have that company make all NYCT cars going forward. When you have the bidding which is the MTA trying to get the cheapest thing out there, things are bound to go wrong. You know what they say, you get what you pay for. This is a perfect example of that.

 

5 hours ago, happy283 said:

Prices would go up but in theory the contract could include a set price and protection for the MTA to prevent negligence. They have proven they can manufacture quality cars so they would be expected to do so as part of the contract.

Kawasaki is a reliable carbuilder for the MTA, certainly more so than Bombardier at this point (as low as that bar is) but relying on them to be NYCT's sole carbuilder would be asking for trouble. Even if we assume Kawasaki acts with the MTA's best interests in mind and wouldn't try to take advantage of their monopoly, any delays they experience could have a domino effect on their orders. While we've all heard about the delays with the M9s, and we're prepared for the possibility that the R211s could be delayed too, there's also the additional 60-car M8 order for Metro-North (and (formerly?) Shore Line East?)  - supposed to start arriving back around September and is now some 9 months late. I don't think we've heard anybody from the MTA/CDOT/Kawasaki come out and give a reason for the M8 delays, but I would assume the M9 delays have pushed back work on the M8s. Granted, delays and setbacks are normal, and the M8 order is a small, supplemental order meant primarily to increase service as opposed to retiring an older fleet, and there's presumably little need for those extra M8s right now with ridership down due to COVID.  But in a world where demand shoots back up, we really shouldn't open up NYCT to a situation where an issue with Kawasaki or any hypothetical sole manufacturer production ended up delaying multiple big car orders. The MTA already only has a handful of bidders willing to work with it. Restrictive low-bidding laws are certainly something to look at, but going with a single manufacturer is just restrictive in a different direction.

[Bill from Maspeth]

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

I don't get the whole lets get rid of these cars bullshit. Unless it's something wrong with the body or frames, These are staying. will give these cars a heavy SMS and replace all the cheap shit that these cars came in with and then they'll be reliable. They did this with The R62,R62A's,R68's,R68A's, R142's and R143's and look how reliable they are now. Once that warranty expires they'll probably send them to CI or 207th st Overhaul to be worked on. By the time the R211's are midway though their delivery the first group of R179's would be ready for SMS. - Car Equipment probably already has this planned. So No these cars aren't going anywhere unless there's cracks in the frames of the cars.

Exactly.  I said all along that MTA/NYCT will find a way to make them work.

These guys moaning and groaning were obviously not on this earth when the R44/46 were having all their problems.  Guess what you young ones: THEY DID WHAT THEY HAD TO DO TO MAKE THEM WORK. And they succeeded!  It took years, but they did it.  The older 60' cars held down the fort!  And they'll do exactly the same thing with the R179.  Except this time, I doubt if will take nearly as long to do it. 

[QM1to6Ave]

2 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Exactly.  I said all along that MTA/NYCT will find a way to make them work.

These guys moaning and groaning were obviously not on this earth when the R44/46 were having all their problems.  Guess what you young ones: THEY DID WHAT THEY HAD TO DO TO MAKE THEM WORK. And they succeeded!  It took years, but they did it.  The older 60' cars held down the fort!  And they'll do exactly the same thing with the R179.  Except this time, I doubt if will take nearly as long to do it. 

Everything today is made so poorly anyway, I don't know why this is a surprise. Especially with more complex electronic components and cheap materials, it is inevitable that new things won't actually work well! Even when I bought a (fairly expensive) brand-new car recently, the dealer said "make your list of what doesn't work right and bring it back for repairs."  

[happy283]

1 hour ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Everything today is made so poorly anyway, I don't know why this is a surprise. Especially with more complex electronic components and cheap materials, it is inevitable that new things won't actually work well! Even when I bought a (fairly expensive) brand-new car recently, the dealer said "make your list of what doesn't work right and bring it back for repairs."  

Exactly. The R32/R42 were able to last over 50 years while the R179 cant go 3 years without multiple major issues. I doubt any NTT will make it to 50 because the quality has changed over the years.

[RapidoNewLook]

3 minutes ago, happy283 said:

Exactly. The R32/R42 were able to last over 50 years while the R179 cant go 3 years without multiple major issues. I doubt any NTT will make it to 50 because the quality has changed over the years.

Well who says that the R32s/R42s didn't have their break in issues too? According to Wikipedia, the R32s suffered from clearance problems, and the R42s had issues with their A/C and braking systems in the first few months after delivery. Every subway car has teething issues,  though granted, the R179 has taken that rule to an extreme. Hopefully they'll get worked out sooner than later. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

14 minutes ago, happy283 said:

Exactly. The R32/R42 were able to last over 50 years while the R179 cant go 3 years without multiple major issues. I doubt any NTT will make it to 50 because the quality has changed over the years.

........

You realize rail/subway vehicles retire at an average of 40 yrs in today's standard and the R32s were supposed to be retired a decade ago.

[happy283]

50 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

........

You realize rail/subway vehicles retire at an average of 40 yrs in today's standard and the R32s were supposed to be retired a decade ago.

But they werent, and they were able to last 15 years past their life expentancy. They would have to be built pretty good for that to be possible.

[happy283]

On 6/15/2020 at 8:27 PM, R32 3838 said:

 

I'm starting to think I know who you are, I wouldn't be surprised because you keep asking the same questions and now you are saying they're junk while asking about R160 8888. lots of red flags

 

8 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Yeah, me too.  But if we ask him he would deny it anyway.

How about instead of starting with this needless bullshit about trying to guess who I am while not actually asking me who I am, you tell me what your issues with my content and conduct are so I can try and make some changes to how I post. I am open to constructive feedback for the purposes of coexisting will all other members on this forum.

[irongirl6128]

3 minutes ago, happy283 said:

 

How about instead of starting with this needless bullshit about trying to guess who I am while not actually asking me who I am, you tell me what your issues with my content and conduct are so I can try and make some changes to how I post. I am open to constructive feedback for the purposes of coexisting will all other members on this forum.

But aren't you the one that spreads more rumors around and carry those as a fact?

[happy283]

4 minutes ago, irongirl6128 said:

But aren't you the one that spreads more rumors around and carry those as a fact?

I know there was an issue of someone else doing that but if you have an example of me engaging in that, please let me know.

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, happy283 said:

But they werent, and they were able to last 15 years past their life expentancy. They would have to be built pretty good for that to be possible.

Someone really is acting very special. No point of this back and forth bs if you gonna keep defending why the R32s should stay until the 2100's. Never seen someone as dedicated to defending old cars and wanting to get rid of the R179s other than....... Oh wait.

I think we're done here Mr. Satchell. Have a good night.

 

(Where's the dislike button when you need it I wish that was still a thing)

Edited June 17, 2020 by MysteriousBtrain
One of the most dumbest posts and comebacks I ever seen on my time with the forums

[R32 3838]

Im a fan of the R32's but lets be real. Rebuilding An R32 as well as the R38's and most of the non AC subway cars were more complex to rebuild vs a tech train R143 and up. the only tech train that was complex in a way was the R142/142A fleet. the R143's and beyond are alot easier to rebuild since they have less complex design. all they have to do is remove all the old tech and replace it with new tech. every subway car from R143 to 179 came in CBTC ready. the R211's are coming in with CBTC already in them with alot of new technology. If wanted to upgrade the R143/R160's to R211's Specs, It'll be alot easier vs. Re-Building a 60 foot SMEE. SMS and other rebuilds are gonna be alot easier and Cheaper in the long run when it comes to NTT's.

[happy283]

20 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Someone really is acting very special. No point of this back and forth bs if you gonna keep defending why the R32s should stay until the 2100's. Never seen someone as dedicated to defending old cars and wanting to get rid of the R179s other than....... Oh wait.

I think we're done here Mr. Satchell. Have a good night.

 

(Where's the dislike button when you need it I wish that was still a thing)

Wow, you really are a dumbass. I was just stating the fact that the R32s lasted 15 years past average. Maybe facts arent your thing in which case you should get the hell of this forum. And by the way, you just somehow beat my “dumb comeback” by a million miles.

[happy283]

40 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

every subway car from R143 to 179 came in CBTC ready. the R211's are coming in with CBTC already in them with alot of new technology.

Why werent the R179s delivered with CBTC equipped?

[Around the Horn]

4 minutes ago, happy283 said:

Why werent the R179s delivered with CBTC equipped?

Because that's what the MTA specified.

[1998NewFlyer]

On 6/15/2020 at 10:21 PM, Calvin said:

Just a pointer of the  in percentage (number/total) : 

R46 -> 22 / 40 = (55%)

R160 -> 17 / 40 = (42%)

R68/A -> 1 /40 = (3%)

Wait the A has r68s? 

[happy283]

10 minutes ago, 1998NewFlyer said:

Wait the A has r68s? 

It borrows one set from CI during the pm rush.

[happy283]

13 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Because that's what the MTA specified.

Doesnt really make sense when your trying to upgrade the entire signal system but you dont order cars that are installed with it.

[1998NewFlyer]

7 minutes ago, happy283 said:

It borrows one set from CI during the pm rush.

Ohh, I thought they stopped that after r179 3040-3049 went into passenger service 

[happy283]

1 minute ago, 1998NewFlyer said:

Ohh, I thought they stopped that after r179 3040-3049 went into passenger service 

The set from CI comes from am  trip that is stored at 207 during the midday hours. Since the R179 production doesnt affect  service or any other CI line, those car assignments would not be affected.

[happy283]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

Im a fan of the R32's but lets be real. Rebuilding An R32 as well as the R38's and most of the non AC subway cars were more complex to rebuild vs a tech train R143 and up. the only tech train that was complex in a way was the R142/142A fleet. the R143's and beyond are alot easier to rebuild since they have less complex design. all they have to do is remove all the old tech and replace it with new tech. every subway car from R143 to 179 came in CBTC ready. the R211's are coming in with CBTC already in them with alot of new technology. If wanted to upgrade the R143/R160's to R211's Specs, It'll be alot easier vs. Re-Building a 60 foot SMEE. SMS and other rebuilds are gonna be alot easier and Cheaper in the long run when it comes to NTT's.

The R32 should have been kept as a spare until the R179s were able to be proven reliable. There was no sense in rushing hundreds of cars into retirement just days after the R179s came back in January. Now they are not needed because of reduced service and the half cab issue doesnt help but they may be needed once covid is over if the R179s continue to be an issue.