Official MNRR/LIRR Short & Long Term Plans and Proposals-now & 2050

[Nexis4Jersey]

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=215312482559953359515.000496c9cdea77cff2ae1&ll=40.75558,-73.688049&spn=0.553423,1.234589&z=10

 

I included some long term LIRR plans , mixed in with some blogger proposals. The Reason i put 2040 is that is how long the LIRR is going to take to finish all of its long term plans. There is a reason behind some of the proposals and i'll list them below.

 

Electrification of the whole system

Thats Self Explanatory , although i think the Montauk branch should be a High level DMU line and not a EMU line due to low ridership.

 

Restoration of the Full Hempstead line

This would provide a fast alt to part of the Main line and would allow trains to be re-routed if there were a disaster on the Main or Babylon line. It would also service a dense corridor and College , the ROW is still intact for the most part. Although a New Bridge would have to be built over the Meadowbrook State Parkway.

 

Restoration of the Wading River line

Since the ending of service East of PJS , the area has exploded in growth. Restoration of the Wading River Branch would take pressure off NY 25A commuters trying to get to PJS and would allow for even more commuters who normally wouldn't take the LIRR to NYC.

 

Restoration of the Sunset Branch

This line would be part 1 of closing the gaps in the subway system in the outer boroughs. The line would start in Jamaica and head east on the Atlantic Branch till it hit East New York where it would turn South on an Industrial line , it would follow that to Sunset park area of Brooklyn or the Docks of Brooklyn. There would be a Ferry Terminal which would have shuttle Ferries to Jersey or SI.

 

Proposed LIRR Core line

It would serve as a bypass to going into Manhattan to switch other Transit services for Central Jerseyites , Staten Islanders and Brooklyn and Queens Residents. It would start off in Midtown Elizabeth , then head east under Newark Bay in a Immersed Tunnel , then stay Underground in Bayonne where it would have at least one stop , then head over to St. Gorges Ferry Terminal where it would have a stop there. It would need go under New York Harbor in another Immersed Tunnel , all 3 Tunnels would be twin tubed. Once in Brooklyn it would merge with the Sunset park line and ride that past the Atlantic Branch to Elmhurst where it would merge with the Main line and go to Grand Central.

 

NY 25 Streetcar / Light Rail

This line would serve a densely populated area of LI that is undeserved by Transit and is growing. The line in wider parts of NY25 would be in the Median , in narrower spots it would share with traffic... There isn't really a stigma against trains on LI so this line if ever built would probably be used by a decent amount compared to the buses.

 

Proposed 3 North - South Light Rail / Streetcars

These would act like connectors between the LIRR system and serve semi dense corridors. These lines generate Dense Developments aswell as Smart Growth.

 

Proposed LGA Airport Train

It would connect of the Terminals at LGA and then head south along the Median ROW on the GCP and then on the BQE similar to the JFK Airtrain. The line would then break off to go Northeast Corridor ride that Queens Junction Station.

 

Queens Junction Station

This Station would serve as another Jamaica Station in the sense that it would join all the LIRR lines in one spot. It would serve as the Terminus for the LGA Airtrain and the last stop on LIRR before Penn or Grand Central Station. There would also be a moving sidewalk for passengers wishing to connect to the (Mx)& trains aswell as Buses.

 

So what do you think of my proposals?

[Amtrak7]

Electrification is not necessary east of KO.

 

The problem is not really funding available to construct, it's NIMBY's who don't want new or expanded rail services.

[Forest Glen]

If the MTA had 300 Trillion dollars, then it could afford to do all of these things, but the fact of the matter is that these plans are not realistic. I'm simply looking forward to ESA and the M9's.

[lilbluefoxie]

Electrification of the whole system

 

Not necessary, Diesel equipment works fine, rather them double track the diesel areas that need it to allow for shorter headways.

 

Restoration of the Full Hempstead line

 

Never gunna happen, Levittown and East Meadow and Southern Hicksville are too built up to allow for a rail line to go through it like that. If anything, use it for freight whats left of it or create a few stops for the Nassau Hub area.

 

Restoration of the Wading River line

 

Might be possible, I would rather see expanded Greenport service

 

Restoration of the Sunset Branch

 

Dobutful itll happen, too much potential for community oppositon, the LIRR brooklyn branch works fine for what it is, and they have the Bushwick and Bay Ridge branches for freight

 

Proposed LIRR Core line

 

Not sure if theres the demand, personally id rather see the LIRR expand on its intra island service.

 

NY 25 Streetcar / Light Rail

 

Very few parts of NY 25 have a large enough median to fit it and where they do its not the kinda area that will use mass transit, just seems like it would be slow and tie up traffic.

 

Proposed 3 North - South Light Rail / Streetcars

 

This could happen

 

Proposed LGA Airport Train

 

I could see this as either an extension or another AirTrain hooked into Jamaica

 

Queens Junction Station

 

Theres already Jamaica and Woodside, I could see an LGA airtrain hook into Jamaica Station.

 

I noticed that Metro North has better reverse-commute service and better service to its outer reaches, that may be something the LIRR could work on.

[Nexis4Jersey]

The Core line would be alt to I278 one of the region's worst highways....as for the New Station why not? I don't think the New Airtrain should go that far south.

[SouthernRailway]

Electrification seems like a no-brainer as long as the funding is available- curious why that hasn't been done before?

[TheKorean]

electrification is expensive and as of right now quite unnecessary. People dont really commute too much from Montauk or the Hamptons to the city. So the ridership is low.

 

They should electrify Port Jefferson brach though.

[lilbluefoxie]

electrification is expensive and as of right now quite unnecessary. People dont really commute too much from Montauk or the Hamptons to the city. So the ridership is low.

 

They should electrify Port Jefferson brach though.

 

Rather them double track it all the way first, and double Track Ronkonkoma

[Matt91]

electrification is expensive and as of right now quite unnecessary. People dont really commute too much from Montauk or the Hamptons to the city. So the ridership is low.

 

They should electrify Port Jefferson brach though.

 

Rather them double track it all the way first, and double Track Ronkonkoma

 

Double tracking the KO branch and especially PJ will help improve service more. Electrifying the PJ will be tough because of all the grades and curves, but there are a good number of substations already in place.

 

As for all the other suggestions, while they'd be nice to have, they're pipe dreams at best and impossible at worst.

[lilbluefoxie]

thats why i think diesel service on the port jefferson line is fine, they have their peak trains for penn station, the rest go to hunterspoint or long island city, i think double tracking would do more for service than electrifying it, since even if its electrified, itll run into the same bottlenecks it currently has

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Nexis4Jersey]

Don't quit your day job. if this is your day job, by all means quit.

 

LOL , why , whats wrong with them....

[Luis1985]

im gonna say that its not a bad idea, but damn, were gonna need alot of money for this, lol.

[TheKorean]

If they ever renovate Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum, they should build a light rail from Hemstead Station to the arena.

[Matt91]

thats why i think diesel service on the port jefferson line is fine, they have their peak trains for penn station, the rest go to hunterspoint or long island city, i think double tracking would do more for service than electrifying it, since even if its electrified, itll run into the same bottlenecks it currently has

 

Now if only we could get some off peak express service west of Huntington...those local trains are horrible. It could be done.

[TheKorean]

Double tracking between Port Washington and Great Neck would be great too.

[Trainmaster5]

Rather them double track it all the way first, and double Track Ronkonkoma

 

I agree with you 100%. I also think they should run a few more trains between Babylon and Hicksville 7 days a week. Why waste the Central Branch ?

[lilbluefoxie]

Double tracking between Port Washington and Great Neck would be great too.

 

impossibly expensive, theyd have to build a new viaduct, plus the branch is in a narrow right of way in a very very upscale part of the island.

 

I agree with you 100%. I also think they should run a few more trains between Babylon and Hicksville 7 days a week. Why waste the Central Branch ?

 

They have trains on it 7 days a week, its most often the Montauk branch trains that run all the way to/from Montauk, they go to Jamaica straight from there, since the Babylon branch is often too busy for them to go express there. The trains ending in Patchogue end in Babylon since they arent traveling such a long distance, and they often have expresses that go, Babylon-Freeport-Jamaica-Penn.

 

Now if only we could get some off peak express service west of Huntington...those local trains are horrible. It could be done.

 

Hicksville gets the expresses from Ronkonkoma otherwise coming from port jeff you get locals, at least it skip stops on weekends, but a third track or even a 4th track is really necisary on that part of the main line, and its really not as impossible as they think, theres a lot of discontinuous 3rd tracks there for freight sidings and whatnot that arent used, the tricky parts gunna be west of Mineola, theres not a lot of room by Merillon Ave and New Hyde Park and you know Garden City will put up a fight about it.

 

IF they had that third track they could defenately have express diesel service from port jeff to jamaica on off peak times

[AgedPolaris]

Electrification of the whole system

Thats Self Explanatory , although i think the Montauk branch should be a High level DMU line and not a EMU line due to low ridership.

 

Although I agree full electrification might sound nice in theory... in light of the epic service disruptions due to weather, I think the lack of reliable diesels on the LIRR roster was part to blame. Now I know we're not going to have blizzards like that often, but it would have been nice to have a reliable backbone of road diesels to run up and down branches where they're allowed rather than strand passengers for hours. I'm not sure how well the DE/DMs fare in heavy snow, but it doesn't matter because there's just not enough of them. New technology is too fragile. New management is too spineless. I guess that's progress the LIRR way.

 

I can certainly see some hypothetical development in the "Nassau hub" area, although I can't say I can ever see the Garden City secondary/Mitchell field/whatever you want to call it ever really going beyond the Meadowbrook. Rail to the Coliseum and college though, yeah... I think that's feasible. Also reconnecting the W. Hempstead branch with the Hempstead at CLP or this reason. (It would also give the WH branch a little more reason for existing, since I know some of you think it should be left to grow weeds, lol.)

 

I think light rail on the island is an interesting idea, but I don't see the typical Long Islander giving up their urban assault vehicles in lieu of smart and sustainable mass transit anytime soon. (I live in have to drive around those types every day, so I get to make the stereotype. ) Also, where is our real urban hub? LIB gets us around the Mineola/Carle Place/G. City/Glen Cove areas without it being too torturous... but I think we agree that it doesn't hold the appeal of a modern light-rail system.

 

I don't know much about operations in Suffolk county so I can't comment, but unless certain things happen between now and 2050, I fear LI will just become the bland aging suburb it's slated to be. We can do better!

[Vistausss]

Electrification of the whole system

Would be better for the environment than diesel, but I disagree 'cause there are more important things to take care of first (apart from the budget crisis).

 

Restoration of the Full Hempstead line

That is a great idea! It would give a new impulse to the Hempstead and West Hempstead lines and it isn't even that expensive to restore it since it's mostly intact and a short distance.

 

Restoration of the Wading River line

Great idea! That would be great. It was a shame they cut it back to PJ back then. Restoring it back to WR would be a great idea and gives the line a new impulse plus everything is easily to rebuilt 'cause they have put up a hiking track along the whole route the line did go. So they can easily put up rails there again and open it up.

 

Restoration of the Sunset Branch

Could be a good idea, but there are other things that need more attention like the 2 things above here that I found great ideas for example.

 

Proposed LIRR Core line

Disagree! I really disagree with this one. They should focus on the inlands and LI. That's the most important and the connections with Penn and GC. Those are the only things they should focus on.

 

NY 25 Streetcar / Light Rail

Why not make it a branch like all the other branches at LI? Could be a good idea though.

 

Proposed 3 North - South Light Rail / Streetcars

Disagree. Provide good bus service there and make the buses connect with nearby LIRR stations.

 

Proposed LGA Airport Train

Don't see the need for this one.

 

Queens Junction Station

Disagree. There is nothing wrong with Jamaica except for the PW branch not getting there.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Would be better for the environment than diesel, but I disagree 'cause there are more important things to take care of first (apart from the budget crisis).

 

 

That is a great idea! It would give a new impulse to the Hempstead and West Hempstead lines and it isn't even that expensive to restore it since it's mostly intact and a short distance.

 

 

Great idea! That would be great. It was a shame they cut it back to PJ back then. Restoring it back to WR would be a great idea and gives the line a new impulse plus everything is easily to rebuilt 'cause they have put up a hiking track along the whole route the line did go. So they can easily put up rails there again and open it up.

 

 

Could be a good idea, but there are other things that need more attention like the 2 things above here that I found great ideas for example.

 

 

Disagree! I really disagree with this one. They should focus on the inlands and LI. That's the most important and the connections with Penn and GC. Those are the only things they should focus on.

 

 

Why not make it a branch like all the other branches at LI? Could be a good idea though.

 

 

Disagree. Provide good bus service there and make the buses connect with nearby LIRR stations.

 

 

Don't see the need for this one.

 

 

Disagree. There is nothing wrong with Jamaica except for the PW branch not getting there.

 

1. There is a need for subway relief in Brooklyn in the Sunset Park line would help with that.

 

2. The Core line would relive the terrible I278 congestion by providing an outer ring railway and give the People of SI a 24/7 Rail connection to NYC. It would also close part of the gap in the NYC Rail network....and serve the growing Jersey bound workforce form LI.

 

3. A branch would not work since this would be street running , the LIRR is regional Rail.

 

4. Buses are associated with the poor and Light Rail is not , hench why Light Rail would be a better choice on LI for North / South lines.

 

5. There is a growing and there always has been a need for an LGA Airtrain , the PA hasn't gotten around to it.

 

6. There will be a need for the LIRR to connect up to the MNRR planned New Haven line extension to Penn and to service the (Mx) trains.....

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Vistausss]

I agree with you Kamen Rider except for the extra trains. Montauk has a big yard which isn't used that much except for storing a few trains to there is enough room to store the extra trains there and I'm sure there is some space in Hillside/Jamaica and LIC too.

[Nexis4Jersey]

You showing that "We're gonna do this, It's gonna be great and everyone's gonna love it" addiuted again. The LIRR is NOT the answer to every transportation problem. Heck, trains in general are not always the answer.

 

You thinking in the mind of someone who likes trains. When you start drawing up these ideas, you're not putting yourself in the shoes of the average joe who might not want a light rail line on his street, or who doesn't want to run the risk of what a rail connection to SI might bring in terms of people. They're the ones you need to please, they're the ones you need to watch out for. People don't sue to encourch construction they sue to stop it.

 

Then there are considerations about the current system you're leaving out. You've comepletly ignored about a half dozen logistical questions, most important of which is how the rest of the system will cope with the strain of new lines and increased service. where will you store and repair the extra trains the system is gonna need?

 

There is just no sign of actual though when I read these proposels. I was fliping through you're beloved transportpolitic once and came across a moron who was complaing about how NYP and GCT should have been built next to each other. And this dope claimed he was an expert. He decided to think only in terms of modern urban planing, and ignore one of the greats rivalries between two corporations in history.

 

1. This is mean't to cope with the long term population growth

 

2. I'm thinking in the future mindset.....which in this region can be tough..

 

3. Well over time and if the plan is presented in the right format the average should not be opposed as much as you would think.

 

4. What is your problem with the core line it serves the I-278 corridor which is the worst in the region in terms of traffic and congestion. Political issues came be overcome if this were to be done privately which in my opinion it should....since it would be used by a large amount of people finding a private company should be easy.

 

5. What did i leave out of the current system? The Upgrades to the system overall.....i don't think i need to mention that...thats common knowledge. some of these lines would relive congestion on some lines like restoration of the Hempstead line , which would give a New and faster way for the Ronkonkoma branch trains. Restoring the Wading River Branch and Electrifying it would serve a growing population area , if the Hempstead line was restored then it would have little impact on the system. Of course 3 tracking the Main line would also help with the congestion issues....

 

6. For some reason New Yorkers (Long Islanders) always whine and make excuses for there system and shoot down any attempt to expand it....even when it makes sense....hench why Metro North and NJT have overtaken the LIRR...... I never said the light rail lines were official , they were just fantasy...yet you acted like they were official...

 

7. So you think i'm like TTP....sheesh grow up.....were not all like that....(i need my own blog) look at the SAS or GGW...

[Vistausss]

Dunno what you guys think of my idea for the Greenport Branch, but anyways.

The Greenport Branch doesn't operate atm 'cause of low riderships, as we all know. Operation starts again in a few months.

 

What if they expanded service by extending the line by either of the following:

1 via East Marion to Orient Point

2 via a bridge to Shelter Island?

 

There are quite some people living at 1 and 2, so that would create a new impulse for the Greenport-branch.