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yeah, 17c from end to end is rather long & aggravating duration wise during the rush hour..... this is why 17j's do so well (in terms of usage)....

 

.....and that sounds about right on the x63 too.... always tend to get a good nap whenever I take it to the last stop just short of huxley... for the life of me, I can't see how those folks get any sleep w/ the dam planes flying so low..... anyway, part that sucks is the walk to get to the Q113 (which'll be short lived)....

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yeah, 17c from end to end is rather long & aggravating duration wise during the rush hour..... this is why 17j's do so well (in terms of usage)....

 

.....and that sounds about right on the x63 too.... always tend to get a good nap whenever I take it to the last stop just short of huxley... for the life of me, I can't see how those folks get any sleep w/ the dam planes flying so low..... anyway, part that sucks is the walk to get to the Q113 (which'll be short lived)....

 

Definitely. To get to Madison Avenue in Midtown is at least an hour on the X17C (from my area, which is around Richmond Avenue and the SIE).

 

The X17J can cut that down to about 45 minutes (it would probably be even faster if it didn't have to merge into the bus lane with all of the NJT buses).

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yeah, 17c from end to end is rather long & aggravating duration wise during the rush hour..... this is why 17j's do so well (in terms of usage)....

 

.....and that sounds about right on the x63 too.... always tend to get a good nap whenever I take it to the last stop just short of huxley... for the life of me, I can't see how those folks get any sleep w/ the dam planes flying so low..... anyway, part that sucks is the walk to get to the Q113 (which'll be short lived)....

 

The MTA rendered the x63 "inefficient." and I agree... Too damn long, when it could be faster. What would help the line out is if they do an A/B Split. Some trips are packed out of Rosedale. Make those trips A. Left on Conduit and take it all the way to the Van Wyck. Would probably shave a half-hour off easy. Let the B trips pick up the slack on Merrick and Linden.

 

And why is a bus coming from Rosedale, which is at the county line, making 2 stops on Queens Blvd?? There are several other X's on QB. There aren't any seats by the time it gets there anyway. The bus gets great ridership, and is a perfect example of an X route that has grown to be heavy. I remember back in '97 when I first started taking the bus, I was going to Baruch. There were 2 runs each way, and from what I understand for as long as the old time riders could remember, even when the line was previously the x20.

 

In the early/mid 90's, they tested a combo trip with the x64, where one of the two AM trips would continue up Hook Creek Blvd/Cross Island Pkwy to Linden/235th and continue as x64 routing. I remember seeing the service changes on the 85 bus a year or so before I started riding. I guess the ridership was heavier in Rosedale than on Merrick as some trips currently are.

 

When the fare was dropped to $3, they had to add runs. They crept up, 2 more trips, then 3 more trips, till they had 15 runs. Even now at $5.50ppr, and the recent budget cuts, the line still supports 13. People depend on the line, as a Q85 to Jamaica, then a E, with no seats to Manhattan, isn't gonna do it for them, and may have to make another subway connection. You can walk pretty much to any location in midtown from a x63 drop off point. The 3-Ave/57st/5Av/23rd Street Routing is attractive. People drive to stops along the Queens portion of the route.

 

I would like to see a combination of x63/QM21 to provide better network coverage of the area but that's another topic.

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The MTA rendered the x63 "inefficient." and I agree... Too damn long, when it could be faster. What would help the line out is if they do an A/B Split. Some trips are packed out of Rosedale. Make those trips A. Left on Conduit and take it all the way to the Van Wyck. Would probably shave a half-hour off easy. Let the B trips pick up the slack on Merrick and Linden.

 

And why is a bus coming from Rosedale, which is at the county line, making 2 stops on Queens Blvd?? There are several other X's on QB. There aren't any seats by the time it gets there anyway. The bus gets great ridership, and is a perfect example of an X route that has grown to be heavy. I remember back in '97 when I first started taking the bus, I was going to Baruch. There were 2 runs each way, and from what I understand for as long as the old time riders could remember, even when the line was previously the x20.

 

In the early/mid 90's, they tested a combo trip with the x64, where one of the two AM trips would continue up Hook Creek Blvd/Cross Island Pkwy to Linden/235th and continue as x64 routing. I remember seeing the service changes on the 85 bus a year or so before I started riding. I guess the ridership was heavier in Rosedale than on Merrick as some trips currently are.

 

When the fare was dropped to $3, they had to add runs. They crept up, 2 more trips, then 3 more trips, till they had 15 runs. Even now at $5.50ppr, and the recent budget cuts, the line still supports 13. People depend on the line, as a Q85 to Jamaica, then a E, with no seats to Manhattan, isn't gonna do it for them, and may have to make another subway connection. You can walk pretty much to any location in midtown from a x63 drop off point. The 3-Ave/57st/5Av/23rd Street Routing is attractive. People drive to stops along the Queens portion of the route.

 

I would like to see a combination of x63/QM21 to provide better network coverage of the area but that's another topic.

 

I think the QM21 should take over the linden segment and X63 become super express via backroads and LIE the van wyck is a disaster all the time bus on van wyck becomes local that's how bad it is. If ridership is that high then Qm21 should be realigned away from LIRR to eliminate duplication and stay on guy r brewer and let X63 eliminate it's linden segment and use conduit to rockaway blvd then van wyck service rd then myrtle to woodhaven and then LIE to cut down on van wyck FAILWAY

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The MTA rendered the x63 "inefficient." and I agree... Too damn long, when it could be faster. What would help the line out is if they do an A/B Split. Some trips are packed out of Rosedale. Make those trips A. Left on Conduit and take it all the way to the Van Wyck. Would probably shave a half-hour off easy. Let the B trips pick up the slack on Merrick and Linden.

 

And why is a bus coming from Rosedale, which is at the county line, making 2 stops on Queens Blvd?? There are several other X's on QB. There aren't any seats by the time it gets there anyway. The bus gets great ridership, and is a perfect example of an X route that has grown to be heavy. I remember back in '97 when I first started taking the bus, I was going to Baruch. There were 2 runs each way, and from what I understand for as long as the old time riders could remember, even when the line was previously the x20.

 

In the early/mid 90's, they tested a combo trip with the x64, where one of the two AM trips would continue up Hook Creek Blvd/Cross Island Pkwy to Linden/235th and continue as x64 routing. I remember seeing the service changes on the 85 bus a year or so before I started riding. I guess the ridership was heavier in Rosedale than on Merrick as some trips currently are.

 

When the fare was dropped to $3, they had to add runs. They crept up, 2 more trips, then 3 more trips, till they had 15 runs. Even now at $5.50ppr, and the recent budget cuts, the line still supports 13. People depend on the line, as a Q85 to Jamaica, then a E, with no seats to Manhattan, isn't gonna do it for them, and may have to make another subway connection. You can walk pretty much to any location in midtown from a x63 drop off point. The 3-Ave/57st/5Av/23rd Street Routing is attractive. People drive to stops along the Queens portion of the route.

 

I would like to see a combination of x63/QM21 to provide better network coverage of the area but that's another topic.

 

x63 usage on merrick aint great at all.... It's not uncommon to go from say around springfield blvd, to south of the conduits (Rosedale in this case) w/o a single passenger disembarking between that stint... that's happened to me quite a bit....

 

I also think the QM21/x63 should be one service.... but I would have it serve rosedale, travel along the conduits (nonstop) like you mentioned, turn up guy r brewer to serve the rochdale folk, and from there, have it go up brewer til it reaches linden blvd, then regular x63 route.... I would take x63's completely off merrick... those riders are hellbent on shakin their tailfeathers on over to Jamaica Center, so leave em be.....

 

You could also have special trips run straight from Rosedale to manhattan, as you also mentioned...

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x63 usage on merrick aint great at all.... It's not uncommon to go from say around springfield blvd, to south of the conduits (Rosedale in this case) w/o a single passenger disembarking between that stint... that's happened to me quite a bit....

 

I also think the QM21/x63 should be one service.... but I would have it serve rosedale, travel along the conduits (nonstop) like you mentioned, turn up guy r brewer to serve the rochdale folk, and from there, have it go up brewer til it reaches linden blvd, then regular x63 route.... I would take x63's completely off merrick... those riders are hellbent on shakin their tailfeathers on over to Jamaica Center, so leave em be.....

 

You could also have special trips run straight from Rosedale to manhattan, as you also mentioned...

 

I am glad I wasn't the only one thinking this!!!! you read my mind lol!!!!!!!!!!! That's what I think express buses should do.

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x63 usage on merrick aint great at all.... It's not uncommon to go from say around springfield blvd, to south of the conduits (Rosedale in this case) w/o a single passenger disembarking between that stint... that's happened to me quite a bit....

 

I also think the QM21/x63 should be one service.... but I would have it serve rosedale, travel along the conduits (nonstop) like you mentioned, turn up guy r brewer to serve the rochdale folk, and from there, have it go up brewer til it reaches linden blvd, then regular x63 route.... I would take x63's completely off merrick... those riders are hellbent on shakin their tailfeathers on over to Jamaica Center, so leave em be.....

 

You could also have special trips run straight from Rosedale to manhattan, as you also mentioned...

 

Agreed!

 

The only thing with a re-route via Guy Brewer, you miss the bulk of the Rochdale passengers on Bedell Street which is the whole Rochdale ridership of the qm21. Foch Blvd is also a heavy pickup stop.

 

I like the Woodhaven/Rockaway routing, one of the old drivers when the route was at Jamaica, use to do this when the Van Wyck was crazy with the AirTrain construction. We actually saved time.

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I am glad I wasn't the only one thinking this!!!! you read my mind lol!!!!!!!!!!! That's what I think express buses should do.

 

You may be getting it after all this time, after all....

 

Bear in mind though, there are but so many exp. routes you can try to maximize ridership w/ like that..... a QM10/12 combo could be another where it might work....

 

 

Agreed!

 

The only thing with a re-route via Guy Brewer, you miss the bulk of the Rochdale passengers on Bedell Street which is the whole Rochdale ridership of the qm21. Foch Blvd is also a heavy pickup stop.

 

I like the Woodhaven/Rockaway routing, one of the old drivers when the route was at Jamaica, use to do this when the Van Wyck was crazy with the AirTrain construction. We actually saved time.

 

You're right; that's a bit of laziness on my part... lol.... I realize most the usage is on the bedell side of rochdale w/ the 21....

 

Instead of sayin "turn up guy r brewer to serve the rochdale folk", I didn't mean to have buses only serve guy r brewer (from the conduits to linden blvd)... I should've gave the full tilt of what I think such a route should do, which included bedell....

 

* So I would have it go from Rosedale, via the conduits (no stops), turn up brewer, over to 137th, to bedell, to baisley, back on brewer, then over to linden.....

 

another way of doing it would have it go via the conduits, & instead turn up farmers, to bedell, to baisley, brewer, linden, etc.... I'd prefer the brewer to 137th option though...

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You may be getting it after all this time, after all....

 

Bear in mind though, there are but so many exp. routes you can try to maximize ridership w/ like that..... a QM10/12 combo could be another where it might work....

 

 

 

 

You're right; that's a bit of laziness on my part... lol.... I realize most the usage is on the bedell side of rochdale w/ the 21....

 

Instead of sayin "turn up guy r brewer to serve the rochdale folk", I didn't mean to have buses only serve guy r brewer (from the conduits to linden blvd)... I should've gave the full tilt of what I think such a route should do, which included bedell....

 

* So I would have it go from Rosedale, via the conduits (no stops), turn up brewer, over to 137th, to bedell, to baisley, back on brewer, then over to linden.....

 

another way of doing it would have it go via the conduits, & instead turn up farmers, to bedell, to baisley, brewer, linden, etc.... I'd prefer the brewer to 137th option though...

are you sure QM21 gets heavy there?? why can't bedell street ppl use the LIRR if they live there then it may be cheaper for them to use LIRR $193 the locust manor station is literally right there I can't understand that. I did find out that most ppl don't know that LIRR is cheaper than express bus. I know I asked many queens ppl about it.

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are you sure QM21 gets heavy there?? why can't bedell street ppl use the LIRR if they live there then it may be cheaper for them to use LIRR $193 the locust manor station is literally right there I can't understand that. I did find out that most ppl don't know that LIRR is cheaper than express bus. I know I asked many queens ppl about it.

 

Perhaps because the Bedell Street passengers don't work close enough to Penn Station?

 

Yesterday, I used an X17J that arrived at PABT around 4:35-4:37PM. I'd say this is about my third passage via the Lincoln Tunnel during the PM hours, and all three times, the traffic inbound was heavier than outbound(since the outbound traffic can use the XBL)

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are you sure QM21 gets heavy there??

 

why can't bedell street ppl use the LIRR if they live there then it may be cheaper for them to use LIRR $193 the locust manor station is literally right there I can't understand that. I did find out that most ppl don't know that LIRR is cheaper than express bus. I know I asked many queens ppl about it.

 

We're sayin most the QM21 riders use it on Bedell...

 

I'd say this is about my third passage via the Lincoln Tunnel during the PM hours, and all three times, the traffic inbound was heavier than outbound(since the outbound traffic can use the XBL

I'd say b/w 2pm & 7pm, forget about seeing inbound traffic not backed up on the helix, and (well) beyond that...... that's just how it is....

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We're sayin most the QM21 riders use it on Bedell...

 

 

I'd say b/w 2pm & 7pm, forget about seeing inbound traffic not backed up on the helix, and (well) beyond that...... that's just how it is....

 

well the X63 has enough of it's own riders right??? If so then it should stay on guy r brewer to keep travel time down If ppl have the LIRR then there is no reason for them to use a bus that gets caught in manhattan traffic and tunnel traffic. What about linden blvd. If the mta modified the LIRR monthly to work on subways in manhattan then what would the purpose of the QM21 be other than duplicate a faster more reliable service.

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well the X63 has enough of it's own riders right??? If so then it should stay on guy r brewer to keep travel time down If ppl have the LIRR then there is no reason for them to use a bus that gets caught in manhattan traffic and tunnel traffic. What about linden blvd. If the mta modified the LIRR monthly to work on subways in manhattan then what would the purpose of the QM21 be other than duplicate a faster more reliable service.

 

The full Rochdale loop only takes about 5 minutes, so time isn't really an issue. There are plenty of reasons why people use the express over the RR. The LIRR is cool if you are ONLY going to Penn. Its $193 + a $104 Monthly Unlimited Metrocard for travel to anywhere from Penn Station = $297, where the monthly unlimited express card would be about $204. Peak on the LIRR is $9. Express bus is $5.50. Express bus makes a better impulse trip for those without monthly's or people who go into the city occasionally., and provides flexibility outside of going just to and from work everyday, without any added cost. Locust Manor also has no elevator access. Have you ever seen the Stairs at Locust Manor? There are lots of elderly, and "portly" women in Rochdale who can't make those stairs.

 

Also, the QM21 has no bus stop signs or guide-a-rides at any of its stops, in queens. It is actually the only express bus in the system NOT to have them. So how are people supposed to ride the bus, if they don't know where it stops or where it comes. It also has a different Manhattan routing (2nd Avenue/23rd Street/Madison Avenue/57th Street), most of the AM QM21 riders get off on the east side stops.. (2nd avenue/34th Street, 23rd Street/Park) Making the LIRR useless to them.

 

The x63 heads uptown first with a 3Av/57/5av/23rd routing. You would get downtown faster on a QM21 than the x63, hence why downtown people use it. I was going to 57th and 3rd, I would take the 63 before a 21. You'd just get there faster. There are also no seats on the LIRR during Rush and the argument could be made for the Rosedale people who ride the 63, who have the LIRR at Rosedale Station, but choose to ride the express bus, for a cheaper, guaranteed one-seat ride to their destination.

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The full Rochdale loop only takes about 5 minutes, so time isn't really an issue. There are plenty of reasons why people use the express over the RR. The LIRR is cool if you are ONLY going to Penn. Its $193 + a $104 Monthly Unlimited Metrocard for travel to anywhere from Penn Station = $297, where the monthly unlimited express card would be about $204. Peak on the LIRR is $9. Express bus is $5.50. Express bus makes a better impulse trip for those without monthly's or people who go into the city occasionally., and provides flexibility outside of going just to and from work everyday, without any added cost. Locust Manor also has no elevator access. Have you ever seen the Stairs at Locust Manor? There are lots of elderly, and "portly" women in Rochdale who can't make those stairs.

 

Also, the QM21 has no bus stop signs or guide-a-rides at any of its stops, in queens. It is actually the only express bus in the system NOT to have them. So how are people supposed to ride the bus, if they don't know where it stops or where it comes. It also has a different Manhattan routing (2nd Avenue/23rd Street/Madison Avenue/57th Street), most of the AM QM21 riders get off on the east side stops.. (2nd avenue/34th Street, 23rd Street/Park) Making the LIRR useless to them.

 

The x63 heads uptown first with a 3Av/57/5av/23rd routing. You would get downtown faster on a QM21 than the x63, hence why downtown people use it. I was going to 57th and 3rd, I would take the 63 before a 21. You'd just get there faster. There are also no seats on the LIRR during Rush and the argument could be made for the Rosedale people who ride the 63, who have the LIRR at Rosedale Station, but choose to ride the express bus, for a cheaper, guaranteed one-seat ride to their destination.

 

He did mention that the MTA should make the LIRR monthly pass similar to the NJT commuter rail pass, where it is valid on the local buses and subways.

 

If that were the case, what could probably be done is to combine the X63 and QM21, and reroute them so that they don't go too far west: They could travel down 2nd Avenue or something like that (instead of 5th Avenue) to get down to 23rd Street faster and serve more of the East Side (where the LIRR doesn't go)

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well the X63 has enough of it's own riders right??? If so then it should stay on guy r brewer to keep travel time down If ppl have the LIRR then there is no reason for them to use a bus that gets caught in manhattan traffic and tunnel traffic. What about linden blvd.

 

If the mta modified the LIRR monthly to work on subways in manhattan then what would the purpose of the QM21 be other than duplicate a faster more reliable service.

first of all, we're talking about combining the qm21 & the x63 into one service....

 

second, that 2nd part of the statement has nothin to do w/ what Anxious & I are talkin about.... you're makin a statement there that supports eradicating express bus service for the rochdale folks outright... Why is the LIRR being brought up in any of this anyway....

 

third, if you keep it on brewer, then you lose a good chunk of the rochdale folk believe it or not.... Rochdale residents are the ones that's keeping the QM21 around, not those that live around linden blvd (lol).... Removing express bus service off Bedell & tellin them to take the LIRR (when many of them don't do it now) is basically sayin eff all you ppl. that need the east side...

 

fourth, and as was said, there won't be a great deal of time lost having buses go along the conduits, around Rochdale, and across linden - as opposed to the current situation w/ the x63 and it shooting along hook creek & along merrick...

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Definitely. To get to Madison Avenue in Midtown is at least an hour on the X17C (from my area, which is around Richmond Avenue and the SIE).

 

The X17J can cut that down to about 45 minutes (it would probably be even faster if it didn't have to merge into the bus lane with all of the NJT buses).

 

I feel there should be two bus lanes. I call it the choke lane, but it does help

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lol @ the choke lane !

 

 

 

He did mention that the MTA should make the LIRR monthly pass similar to the NJT commuter rail pass, where it is valid on the local buses and subways.

 

If that were the case, what could probably be done is to combine the X63 and QM21, and reroute them so that they don't go too far west: They could travel down 2nd Avenue or something like that (instead of 5th Avenue) to get down to 23rd Street faster and serve more of the East Side (where the LIRR doesn't go)

you're using 'point a' to make a case for 'point b' when neither has anything to do w/ the other.....

 

But even if it did...

Why try to force (more) NYC riders onto peak direction LIRR trains when there's really no need to? Sure altering/adding more permissions onto the rail monthly pass can be beneficial (in general), but what good would that do for these folks....

 

The idea is not to keep said exp. buses from not serving areas too close to penn - It's to serve a part of Manhattan where the riders are ultimately tryna get to....

 

This is why the LIRR is a non-factor in any of this....

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lol @ the choke lane !

 

 

 

 

you're using 'point a' to make a case for 'point b' when neither has anything to do w/ the other.....

 

But even if it did...

Why try to force (more) NYC riders onto peak direction LIRR trains when there's really no need to? Sure altering/adding more permissions onto the rail monthly pass can be beneficial (in general), but what good would that do for these folks....

 

The idea is not to keep said exp. buses from not serving areas too close to penn - It's to serve a part of Manhattan where the riders are ultimately tryna get to....

 

This is why the LIRR is a non-factor in any of this....

 

I hate to bring up the "rail is cheaper than buses" argument, but I feel that it is better to have people use trains where possible, and then have buses travel where the trains can't.

 

A few extra trains can be added to the line (terminating in, say Valley Stream or Rosedale or the nearest possible terminal), and the buses can be used to bring the riders to the East Side.

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I hate to bring up the "rail is cheaper than buses" argument, but I feel that it is better to have people use trains where possible, and then have buses travel where the trains can't.

 

A few extra trains can be added to the line (terminating in, say Valley Stream or Rosedale or the nearest possible terminal), and the buses can be used to bring the riders to the East Side.

In other words, increase the number of 2+ seat rides where possible.....

 

NYC's Express bus riders would like to have a serious word with you.....

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In other words, increase the number of 2+ seat rides where possible.....

 

NYC's Express bus riders would like to have a serious word with you.....

 

But it would help speed up the trip of riders going to East Midtown. Some people have to transfer, but others would benefit from the faster service.

 

Not to mention the fact that some people would have a faster trip by using the LIRR vs. the express bus (there would be slightly more frequent LIRR service, and they wouldn't have to pay almost $100 a month extra to have that faster ride)

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I hate to bring up the "rail is cheaper than buses" argument, but I feel that it is better to have people use trains where possible, and then have buses travel where the trains can't.

A few extra trains can be added to the line (terminating in, say Valley Stream or Rosedale or the nearest possible terminal), and the buses can be used to bring the riders to the East Side.

 

So if one doesnt like to take the train then what they suppose to do? For ex. there are a ton of riders between Camden and Lindenwold who take the 403/451 over PATCO just because they'd rather take the bus. Those two routes follow PATCO all the way to Lindenwold. You cant just force people on the train for the hell of it. Yes it may make sense in some cases but in most cases you want a bus to follow a train because in the event of a problem, that bus is there; then you wouldnt have to rush a bunch of buses to provide shuttle service.

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But it would help speed up the trip of riders going to East Midtown. Some people have to transfer, but others would benefit from the faster service.

 

Not to mention the fact that some people would have a faster trip by using the LIRR vs. the express bus (there would be slightly more frequent LIRR service, and they wouldn't have to pay almost $100 a month extra to have that faster ride)

 

It's not just about how fast one gets to the city, as an express bus rider myself, its also about comfort and convenience. You just want them riders to start lighting up torches and gathering their pitchforks at you huh? ;)

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But it would help speed up the trip of riders going to East Midtown. Some people have to transfer, but others would benefit from the faster service.

 

Not to mention the fact that some people would have a faster trip by using the LIRR vs. the express bus (there would be slightly more frequent LIRR service, and they wouldn't have to pay almost $100 a month extra to have that faster ride)

 

For what it's worth, you have no idea how many times the trains f*ck up and vice versa. The trains and the express buses both help each other out and thank God they do because if they didn't there would be plenty of days where it would be a mess for some folks getting in. Most of my co-workers live in New Jersey and one commutes from Montclair via the train or the express bus depending on his mood. NJ Transit is quick to shut down bus service or train service and when one is shut down they can usually send folks over to the other.

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In other words, increase the number of 2+ seat rides where possible.....

 

NYC's Express bus riders would like to have a serious word with you.....

 

Hey, that's exactly what the MTA did with the X90. Now instead of a 1 seat ride downtown we have a 10-15 minute bus ride and then have to walk another 10-15 minutes downtown, in addition to the extremely overcrowded (4)(5)(6) trains. So no it's not the end of the world, and yes I say cut those damn express buses because the exact same logic can be used for that.

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