MTA Bus Operations: Fleet & Depots

[Cait Sith]

2 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

From reading all of this. I can make a simple assessment on this. I clearly see there is hate for Flatbush in the Brooklyn Division. 

The last I checked. Ulmer Park does not go thru the heart of Central Brooklyn like Flatbush, East New York, Fresh Pond, Gleason and Grand Avenue. We could all argue that Flatbush deserves new equipment but the way Department of Buses is set up and Flatbush Management may have something to do with this that Flatbush is getting a mere share of buses it needs. The current XD60 order went from 57 to a mere 36 or 39 for them. 

At the end of the day Flatbush should of gotten new XD40’s to replace its RTS fleet like the other depots that are receiving buses. However, when you are at the mercy of the Department of Buses it’s either you take what you are given or don’t expect new buses in the future. This appears to be the case of Flatbush. 

That honestly would not make much sense, especially with the new Novas bumping off NGs to Brooklyn and Manhattan from The Bronx & Staten Island.

Besides, even if Flatbush got new XD40s to replace the RTSs, that number would be low from the jump. The number would not be nearly enough to make fans happy.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Cait Sith

[Future ENY OP]

4 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

That honestly would not make much sense, especially with the new Novas bumping off NGs to Brooklyn and Manhattan from The Bronx & Staten Island.

Besides, even if Flatbush got new XD40s to replace the RTSs, that number would be low from the jump. The number would not be nearly enough to make fans happy.

You got a good point on that. @Cait Sith

[Cait Sith]

As for the fans coming up with conspiracy theories for Flatbush.....

Late 2007 into 2008, Flatbush gets selected for their first order of brand new hybrid buses

2008, they receive a couple of 3800s from Castleton for training, they received brand new NGs afterwards.
2009, they got brand new NGs.

Late 2009 into 2010, they got brand new NGs.

2011, Flatbush was selected to get articulated buses. 
2012 into 2013, Flatbush receives 5800s for training and operation usage, they receive brand new Nova Bus LFS Artics afterwards for Hurricane Sandy shuttle work and B44 service.

2013 into 2014, Flatbush gets selected for brand new buses.

2015, Flatbush gets brand new XD40s for local and SBS service, also got 7483(I forgot what year)

2017, Flatbush gets selected for brand new buses.
2018, Flatbush gets brand new SBS XD40s, sending only 4 year old XD40s onto local service duty.

2018, Flatbush gets selected for brand new articulated buses.

2019, Flatbush receives 6100s from Quill for training and operation usage, currently receiving XD60s to push out 6 year old LFSAs to other depots.

So....I must be missing something as to how Flatbush has been treated unfairly as of late, when they've consistently have gotten new buses over the past few years.....not to mention, the only time Flatbush DID NOT receive any new local buses was during the period when the 2003-2007 Orion VIIs were being ordered and delivered.....

Edited April 19, 2019 by Cait Sith

[MysteriousBtrain]

Honestly at this point these fans that keep requesting new units (especially at MHV and FB) are acting just like the residents of East New York and Brownsville, acting like nothing new is coming anytime soon but in reality plans are on the table and/or things are running slow.

 

Just out of curiosity, weren't some of you people sad about the RTS being retired too?🤔🤔🤔

[Future ENY OP]

@Cait Sith: Here’s what others think is to why there’s some form of hate on Flatbush. I get that  wants to balance the age of fleet of the depots. However, others feel that Flatbush should be included with Manhattan and The Bronx to always get new fleet and thank you for breaking down the timeline for Flatbush. 

[ABOGbrooklyn]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Bro what are you talking about? Flatbush Local riders deserve new buses as much as everybody else in this city and the fact that this depot was passed up for new local buses is just totally unfair. Why do more affluent neighborhoods and Depots get new local buses while the less rich and affluent Flatbush Depot doesn’t? It’s total discrimination.

 

What bus lines do you live by and/or take on a daily basis, and what Depots are they dispatched out of? If they’re not from Flatbush, then it’s easy for you to tell FB folks to cool down. Until FB has a newer fleet of new scheme XD40s and XDE40s for local service, the I will still believe that there is something against FB.

I don't think that's entirely true. Flatbush got new buses years before Ulmer Park. Also you forget that most of the Bronx gets newer buses. I don't think it's about Affluent neighborhoods. 

[ABOGbrooklyn]

Damn did I start a war in these comments 😂

[MHV9218]

This is such a pain in the ass debate. If you really wanted to play this, consider Manhattanville, serving the absolute wealthiest parts of the entire city, which hasn't had new buses in 9 years. Even those were technically Brooklyn/SI transfers, so you're really looking at 13 years since a new order came in. And the current plan is for NG hand-me-downs as the LFSes arrive, so add another year or two to that list now. The only stat that matters is fleet age, not 'new deliveries.' Only bus fans care about that stuff. 

 

Edit: I see trainfan touched on this, good points he made too.

Edited April 19, 2019 by MHV9218

[Lex]

2 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Bro what are you talking about? Flatbush Local riders deserve new buses as much as everybody else in this city and the fact that this depot was passed up for new local buses is just totally unfair. Why do more affluent neighborhoods and Depots get new local buses while the less rich and affluent Flatbush Depot doesn’t? It’s total discrimination.

 

What bus lines do you live by and/or take on a daily basis, and what Depots are they dispatched out of? If they’re not from Flatbush, then it’s easy for you to tell FB folks to cool down. Until FB has a newer fleet of new scheme XD40s and XDE40s for local service, the I will still believe that there is something against FB.

As someone who's actually bothered to do some research (unlike certain "reporters") and lives near two of that depot's routes, I can tell you right now that the riding public cares more about getting where they need to go than whether or not the buses are new, not to mention that the depot itself is located in an affluent neighborhood and provides service to both poorer and wealthier neighborhoods.

Literally the only thing that people will agree on as a reason to push the RTS out happens to be the lifts, which have a long history of being awful.

[JeremiahC99]

2 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

How is that unfair?

Flatbush has a ton of local buses that are roughly 4 years old, just exactly how is that unfair? Is that too old for you?

Flatbush is receiving 10 year old outdated garbage (no offense) from Thr Bronx ans SI, while everyone else is getting state-of-the-art buses. How fair is that?

2 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

That honestly would not make much sense, especially with the new Novas bumping off NGs to Brooklyn and Manhattan from The Bronx & Staten Island.

Besides, even if Flatbush got new XD40s to replace the RTSs, that number would be low from the jump. The number would not be nearly enough to make fans happy.

If FB were to get additional new XD40s to replace the RTS, that would've bought the number up to 69. 48 for B46 SBS and 21 for Local service. Combine that with 63 2014-15 XD40s 7304-7365 and 7483, that would've been 84 relatively modern buses for the local routes, alongside the 61 NGs.

1 hour ago, Cait Sith said:

As for the fans coming up with conspiracy theories for Flatbush.....

Late 2007 into 2008, Flatbush gets selected for their first order of brand new hybrid buses

2008, they receive a couple of 3800s from Castleton for training, they received brand new NGs afterwards.
2009, they got brand new NGs.

Late 2009 into 2010, they got brand new NGs.

2011, Flatbush was selected to get articulated buses. 
2012 into 2013, Flatbush receives 5800s for training and operation usage, they receive brand new Nova Bus LFS Artics afterwards for Hurricane Sandy shuttle work and B44 service.

2013 into 2014, Flatbush gets selected for brand new buses.

2015, Flatbush gets brand new XD40s for local and SBS service, also got 7483(I forgot what year)

2017, Flatbush gets selected for brand new buses.
2018, Flatbush gets brand new SBS XD40s, sending only 4 year old XD40s onto local service duty.

2018, Flatbush gets selected for brand new articulated buses.

2019, Flatbush receives 6100s from Quill for training and operation usage, currently receiving XD60s to push out 6 year old LFSAs to other depots.

So....I must be missing something as to how Flatbush has been treated unfairly as of late, when they've consistently have gotten new buses over the past few years.....not to mention, the only time Flatbush DID NOT receive any new local buses was during the period when the 2003-2007 Orion VIIs were being ordered and delivered.....

They are treated unfairly because they are currently NOT receiving new XD40s in the local scheme while everyone else in Brooklyn is. As a taxpayer, it is really unfair that this is happening

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Honestly at this point these fans that keep requesting new units (especially at MHV and FB) are acting just like the residents of East New York and Brownsville, acting like nothing new is coming anytime soon but in reality plans are on the table and/or things are running slow.

 

Just out of curiosity, weren't some of you people sad about the RTS being retired too?🤔🤔🤔

Yes, some of us are sad about the RTS being retired, but I'm not happy about the whole XD40 situation with buses (especially the 2014-15 units as of late) going hot-potato all over Brooklyn.

1 hour ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

I don't think that's entirely true. Flatbush got new buses years before Ulmer Park. Also you forget that most of the Bronx gets newer buses. I don't think it's about Affluent neighborhoods. 

Really, because it looks like we have an  administration that is favoring more affluent and richer neighborhoods over less privileged.

1 hour ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

Damn did I start a war in these comments 😂

Nope. This war started this morning.

47 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

This is such a pain in the ass debate. If you really wanted to play this, consider Manhattanville, serving the absolute wealthiest parts of the entire city, which hasn't had new buses in 9 years. Even those were technically Brooklyn/SI transfers, so you're really looking at 13 years since a new order came in. And the current plan is for NG hand-me-downs as the LFSes arrive, so add another year or two to that list now. The only stat that matters is fleet age, not 'new deliveries.' Only bus fans care about that stuff. 

 

Edit: I see trainfan touched on this, good points he made too.

Call me a bus fan all you want, but I'm more than that. I am a Old Mill Basin resident that have lived here since I was two years old and have braved buses all my life. I've been around to witness multiple changes to the bus system, to the delivery of the new XD40s to the implementation of the B46 SBS. My profile picture is actually the front of a B46 SBS bus at Utica Avenue and Avenue K, the nearest SBS stop from my house.

My main issue here is that Flatbush is continuing to get stuck with old 10-year old buses for their local routes, while everyone else in this division is getting new local routes. Manhattanville is in the same situation, but these new buses delivered now to Manhattan are diesel, which they're not interested in in the long term. But Flatbush is a bus depot that can take anything except CNG buses, so this is unforgivable. My point is that FB should deserves new local buses as much as everyone else in the city and as I've stated many times, its totally unfair for them to not give them to us. after all, we pay taxes as much as everyone else in the city, so we deserve better. 

[JeremiahC99]

29 minutes ago, Lex said:

As someone who's actually bothered to do some research (unlike certain "reporters") and lives near two of that depot's routes, I can tell you right now that the riding public cares more about getting where they need to go than whether or not the buses are new, not to mention that the depot itself is located in an affluent neighborhood and provides service to both poorer and wealthier neighborhoods.

Literally the only thing that people will agree on as a reason to push the RTS out happens to be the lifts, which have a long history of being awful.

True, but if these people are going to spend like 20-30 minutes on a non-SBS bus route, at least make it worth their time by including premium amentities, like WiFi and USB charging.

[Express Bus Operator]

2 hours ago, Ultimategamer12c said:

Again as I stated.... Just because  your a FB Daily Rider or anything else to FB  means nuthing...  in this situation  rn with them needing buses and just because  you think FB riders need more buses then your wrong... you keep sayingthat you still dont understand  the process of what the mTA is doing as I keep saying and everyone else your not getting it how much buses you need them to get there not like WFs where they need a danm bus to fill in all the time it dosent work that way. The local riders have something to ride it's just local buses that dont have USB chargers or Wifi so what... when the time comes for them to push there XD40s from the B46 sbs to local routes then the local riders can enjoy them self until then that's how its gonna be... 

So the 15 buses that is "Supposedly" going into local service will be enough? I bet some of those buses will ended up going to another depot for loaner like it always has been when it comes to FB fleet. 

This coming Monday, just to get a clearer clarification, I will walk in the G.S.T. and G.S.M office to ask some questions about the fleets and figure out how things are manage when it comes to decision to who received newer buses versus who doesn't. Since they state operators are freely  walk in the management office to ask question and etc, I will do the honor to get some clarification regarding these decisions. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

8 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

They are treated unfairly because they are currently NOT receiving new XD40s in the local scheme while everyone else in Brooklyn is. As a taxpayer, it is really unfair that this is happening

Which goes back to what I said earlier:

2 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Honestly at this point these fans that keep requesting new units (especially at MHV and FB) are acting just like the residents of East New York and Brownsville, acting like nothing new is coming anytime soon but in reality plans are on the table and/or things are running slow.

Also you say it's unfair that there are no local 2018 XD40s at FB but at the same time get upset when the 2014-15 buses move around to accommodate the newer models.

 

I don't argue with children so you have yourself a good night. 

[limitednyc]

i thought that when the 46+ gets converted to artic  all 48 sbs xd60's will be made local.

Edited April 20, 2019 by limitednyc

[Express Bus Operator]

2 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

i thought that when the 46+ gets converted to artic  all 48 sbs xd60's will be made local.

Only about 15 runs during rush hour time will  only be operating Articulated buses during the weekdays. There is no guarantees that  those 15 XD40 will remain at the depot since the bush has always been the depot they take away buses to loan other depots. 

[Lex]

17 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

True, but if these people are going to spend like 20-30 minutes on a non-SBS bus route, at least make it worth their time by including premium amentities, like WiFi and USB charging.

Again, people only care about getting where they need to go. Those features are nice, but utterly meaningless when they're not the main focus (and if that's your issue with the RTS, then it would be better to just stop trying to argue).

[MysteriousBtrain]

2 minutes ago, Flatbush SBS Duece said:

Only about 15 runs during rush hour time will  only be operating Articulated buses during the weekdays. There is no guarantees that  those 15 XD40 will remain at the depot since the bush has always been the depot they take away buses to loan other depots. 

I can see where you come from but imo it's more likely to move NGs or older XD40s. In fact, I could see NGs going to Manhattan to replace some OGs when it's there time. Same with the XD40s to ENY. Plus both models at FP. But it's going to be a while before we even know what happens between now and then.

[Cait Sith]

36 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Flatbush is receiving 10 year old outdated garbage (no offense) from Thr Bronx ans SI, while everyone else is getting state-of-the-art buses. How fair is that?

If FB were to get additional new XD40s to replace the RTS, that would've bought the number up to 69. 48 for B46 SBS and 21 for Local service. Combine that with 63 2014-15 XD40s 7304-7365 and 7483, that would've been 84 relatively modern buses for the local routes, alongside the 61 NGs.

Fair enough for them to not get any new local buses any time soon, especially when you consider the history I clearly laid out of them getting new buses over the past 10 years. 

Also, other depots have been getting older buses than Flatbush, ENY has been getting 12 year old hybrids to fill the gaps of the RTS retirement....that makes your point moot. With that logic, ENY should've gotten more XD40s..... 

They've consistently have gotten new local buses over the years, and the NGs aren't really outdated compared to the OGs....

You want to talk about being treated unfairly? Look at Manhattanville, they haven't gotten new local buses in over 10 years, and here you are complaining about a depot that has consistently gotten new local buses over the years, not getting a small batch of their own. 

You're making it sound like they've never gotten any new buses since the RTS. And to say that they're being treated unfairly because they're not getting new buses in the local scheme is absurd when you consider that those buses are basically the same thing as the 7300s they currently have.....just without the USB ports that people hardly ever use. 

Your argument is basically saying that for every new order coming in, Flatbush should always get a piece of it. That's not how it works. 

After all, I'm pretty sure they'll be in line for the 275 Hybrid Bus order anyway. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Cait Sith

[Jdog14]

2 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 

My main issue here is that Flatbush is continuing to get stuck with old 10-year old buses for their local routes, while everyone else in this division is getting new local routes. Manhattanville is in the same situation, but these new buses delivered now to Manhattan are diesel, which they're not interested in in the long term. But Flatbush is a bus depot that can take anything except CNG buses, so this is unforgivable. My point is that FB should deserves new local buses as much as everyone else in the city and as I've stated many times, its totally unfair for them to not give them to us. after all, we pay taxes as much as everyone else in the city, so we deserve better. 

 

Flatbush already has their alotment of new buses in the new scheme. It makes sense for them to get the NGs from KB because they already house and maintain a fleet of them. 

 

Folks who live along the Flatbush routes pay taxes, but if you want true unfair treatment, consider the MTA bus division which minus the artics, has no new scheme buses at all. You may complain about buses being 10 years old, but folks in jackson heights, and jamaica are riding buses that are 12-14 years old. 

 

[ABOGbrooklyn]

2 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 

Where's the proof of like I said, the Bronx gets new buses and Flatbush got new buses before Ulmer Park, though that was in 2009. But still it was 2 years before Ulmer got new buses.

[T J Trainman]

Seriously? What difference does it make? 

 

1 hour ago, Jdog14 said:

 

Flatbush already has their alotment of new buses in the new scheme. It makes sense for them to get the NGs from KB because they already house and maintain a fleet of them. 

 

Folks who live along the Flatbush routes pay taxes, but if you want true unfair treatment, consider the MTA bus division which minus the artics, has no new scheme buses at all. You may complain about buses being 10 years old, but folks in jackson heights, and jamaica are riding buses that are 12-14 years old. 

 

Um, Baisley Park,  JFK, and LGA have XD60s in the new scheme......

[T J Trainman]

Oops disregard, 

[King Transit]

2 hours ago, Jdog14 said:

 

 You may complain about buses being 10 years old, but folks in jackson heights, and jamaica are riding buses that are 12-14 years old. 

 

Go ahead tell them, I like that fact🙏👍😊. This also reminds me of RTS' fleets, like for example when it was 2010 or earlier, ENY(also most depots) still have most RTS' that are at least 10 years old. Since I immigrated to USA in 2007, I could already tell that most RTS' they had(past TMC & Novas) are at least 10 years old and I like it that way. So as of this year, I will always get used to the Next Gens at FB(unlike most fans and employees) because they are one of the best hybrids that used to be my most favs until the time I was turning 13 in early 2016(still like them today). But that's not the point, no matter how old the buses are, it makes me grateful that we have enough buses to make better service for us. Just like others protesting RTS' this year, I know it's boring but just get used to it you know. This is also why my Youtube channel is educative for transit fans, relating to "older buses here, still helps".

Note: YT channel mark icon/hidden link under my forum name(new addition).

Edited April 20, 2019 by King Transit

[King Transit]

On 4/16/2019 at 11:01 AM, MysteriousBtrain said:

 YouTube comments and YouTube videos are just as reliable as Wikipedia; anyone can say anything to throw people off.

By the way, MTA Bus Faner took down the pinned comment. Another one fixed the news.

[King Transit]

On 4/16/2019 at 3:16 AM, B22viaAtlanticAv said:

I don't believe everything I see on Youtube but can someone confirm this information... "UPDATE: Fleet numbers just changed. The XE60s (ALL 15 expected to arrive soon) will now be numbered 1110-1124 and no longer 4950-4964." found in the comment section of this video...

That pinned comment was taken down, another person commented as an edit, and it was pinned.