64 replies to this topic

[40MntVrn]

Factoring in budgeting and practicability, what would you add or change to existing routes?

Here are my suggestions:
My main focus is better connections, if buses could meet up/wait for connecting services, I believe it would lessen the need for additional services.

Since the 20 BRT service has been put on a major halt, they should at least implement the automated stop announcements. From what I've seen, most buses have been outfitted with the gps and led systems.

They really should consider making an transit hub, similar to the one in New Rochelle, in the adjacent parking lot in Mount Vernon. (This one I know isn't entirely plausible

On the 13, westbound buses should depart 5 to 10 later from Port Chester to allow for better connections with northbound metro-north trains. Also have eastbound buses depart 5 minutes earlier to connect with Metro-North

On the 40, add a 7AM Sunday trip. I believe there is a hour and 15 minute headway around that time.

On the 62, there needs to be at least one additional bus, perhaps a 3:40. The way I see it now, if someone along Westchester Ave leaves work earlier than 4, they have the option to travel back in to White Plains to travel south, or travel to Port Chester to connect with Metro North. This merits the minor tweaks on the 13.

It would be nice to see some new 60-footers, but I know they aren't up for the funding for new equipment for a couple of years.

[qjtransitmaster]

Factoring in budgeting and practicability, what would you add or change to existing routes?

Here are my suggestions:
My main focus is better connections, if buses could meet up/wait for connecting services, I believe it would lessen the need for additional services.

Since the 20 BRT service has been put on a major halt, they should at least implement the automated stop announcements. From what I've seen, most buses have been outfitted with the gps and led systems.

They really should consider making an transit hub, similar to the one in New Rochelle, in the adjacent parking lot in Mount Vernon. (This one I know isn't entirely plausible

On the 13, westbound buses should depart 5 to 10 later from Port Chester to allow for better connections with northbound metro-north trains. Also have eastbound buses depart 5 minutes earlier to connect with Metro-North

On the 40, add a 7AM Sunday trip. I believe there is a hour and 15 minute headway around that time.

On the 62, there needs to be at least one additional bus, perhaps a 3:40. The way I see it now, if someone along Westchester Ave leaves work earlier than 4, they have the option to travel back in to White Plains to travel south, or travel to Port Chester to connect with Metro North. This merits the minor tweaks on the 13.

It would be nice to see some new 60-footers, but I know they aren't up for the funding for new equipment for a couple of years.

ouch brilliant ideas BUT the 21 NEEDS FULL TIME SERVICE!!!!!!!!!!!! most express lines need fulltime service some with tweaks however.

[BeeLine256]

i would like to see route 45 go in to co op city where the store are and put more buses on the route for that reason thats my idea.

[GreatOne2k]

W40 - more weekday (at least some put ins / run offs when W41 isn't running), and some weekend trips to/from 241 St. First trip on weekdays should start at 241 St. Last trip on weekdays serves Westchester Community College via Elmsford and is extended to 241 St.
W41 - all weekday trips to/from 241 St
W60 - last weekday trip extended to Fordham
W61 - Sunday service at 60 minute headways
W20 - S/B service from Yonkers Raceway to the Bronx extended until 2:30am

[Shortline Bus]

OK. My replies in red.

W40 - more weekday (at least some put ins / run offs when W41 isn't running), and some weekend trips to/from 241 St. First trip on weekdays should start at 241 St. Last trip on weekdays serves Westchester Community College via Elmsford and is extended to 241 St.
The W40 should be running 7 days a week to 241st. If that means cutting back the "W42" a little bit to pay for it, so be it.


W41 - all weekday trips to/from 241 St-Preaching to the choir on that one, young man lol.
W60 - last weekday trip extended to Fordham-I never understood why the last "W60" ends in New Rochelle. Agree on that one.


W61 - Sunday service at 60 minute headways-Or at least run it between the Dyre Ave station and Pt. Chester on 1-hour headways on Sundays.
W20 - S/B service from Yonkers Raceway to the Bronx extended until 2:30am

The #20 at this point should be running 24/7 with 1-hour overnight headways at least between Raceway/Empire Raceway and Bedford Park. Down the line extended to White Plains Transcenter(No cross county).

[GreatOne2k]

How about this:

Cutting W42 midday service back from 20 minutes to 30 minutes and have the W40 and W42 run a combined 15 minute headway between E 241 St and S 5 Av. W42 would also have to be cut back from 233 St and 241 St during middays. Just like Jay Walder's "cost neutrality". Question is whether the Mount Vernon / New Rochelle portion of the W42 needs as much service as the Bronx / Mount Vernon portion. Also going back to the Bronx the W42 riders aren't all going to be walking to the W40 stop at 5 Av, so the W42 stop may be more crowded.

Rush hours (reverse peak) could be easy since most of the W40/W41 service are run offs/put ins so costs are minimal. Evenings are minimal too due to the many S/B runoffs and few N/B buses.

Good news is that all W43 trips run to/from 241 St.

[qjtransitmaster]

How about this:

Cutting W42 midday service back from 20 minutes to 30 minutes and have the W40 and W42 run a combined 15 minute headway between E 241 St and S 5 Av. W42 would also have to be cut back from 233 St and 241 St during middays. Just like Jay Walder's "cost neutrality". Question is whether the Mount Vernon / New Rochelle portion of the W42 needs as much service as the Bronx / Mount Vernon portion. Also going back to the Bronx the W42 riders aren't all going to be walking to the W40 stop at 5 Av, so the W42 stop may be more crowded.

Rush hours (reverse peak) could be easy since most of the W40/W41 service are run offs/put ins so costs are minimal. Evenings are minimal too due to the many S/B runoffs and few N/B buses.

Good news is that all W43 trips run to/from 241 St.

The thing is it does need the service between new rochelle and mt vernon to be very frequent like 20 or 15 min headways. Since it starts earlier let it go to white plains via I-95 express killing 62 now 62 has high ridership BUT its ridership thins out at new rochelle and then plummets southward since it competes with 60 and 61.

[40MntVrn]

W40 - more weekday (at least some put ins / run offs when W41 isn't running), and some weekend trips to/from 241 St. First trip on weekdays should start at 241 St. Last trip on weekdays serves Westchester Community College via Elmsford and is extended to 241 St.
W60 - last weekday trip extended to Fordham

Here's where I disagree a little. The 60 competes heavily with Metro North for the Fordham customer. Id dare say that if Metro North was cheaper, most would switch entirely. In all honesty, the 60 ride is just too long.

My theory is, that if there any riders headed to Fordham at night, they must be boarding at White Plains, and Metro North is just more attractive.

But, hey, this comes from a guy who thinks the 40 ride is too long.

[GreatOne2k]

Here's where I disagree a little. The 60 competes heavily with Metro North for the Fordham customer. Id dare say that if Metro North was cheaper, most would switch entirely. In all honesty, the 60 ride is just too long.

My theory is, that if there any riders headed to Fordham at night, they must be boarding at White Plains, and Metro North is just more attractive.

But, hey, this comes from a guy who thinks the 40 ride is too long.

The W60 to Fordham serves more than just Fordham commuters, how about those getting off on Boston Road, or even White Plains Road, not everyone is going by Fordham MNR. Also New Rochelle people go back to the Bronx as well, and having to take the W42 is much longer.

The W40 is a better ride back into the Bronx, better than the W20.
The W40 isn't long at all after the peak, it is quick, almost like the W41 if no one gets off, on White Plains Post Road. Unless you are riding from Westchester Medical Center

At one point Metro North monthly ticket was cheaper than a Bee Line monthly Passport from the Bronx to Westchester before Metrocard.

[qjtransitmaster]

The W60 to Fordham serves more than just Fordham commuters, how about those getting off on Boston Road, or even White Plains Road, not everyone is going by Fordham MNR. Also New Rochelle people go back to the Bronx as well, and having to take the W42 is much longer.

The W40 is a better ride back into the Bronx, better than the W20.
The W40 isn't long at all after the peak, it is quick, almost like the W41 if no one gets off, on White Plains Post Road. Unless you are riding from Westchester Medical Center

At one point Metro North monthly ticket was cheaper than a Bee Line monthly Passport from the Bronx to Westchester before Metrocard.

True agreed almost ALL W60 people from white plains are off long before even new rochelle. Then a different crowd boards the W60 bronx bound is EMPTY by the time it reaches the fordham MNRR W60 DOES NOT compete with MNRR in anyway cause if it did then it would have gotten the axe already cause the amount of people on the W60 to fordham MNRR is extremely low NO lies. greatone is right mt vernon40

[40MntVrn]

True agreed almost ALL W60 people from white plains are off long before even new rochelle. Then a different crowd boards the W60 bronx bound is EMPTY by the time it reaches the fordham MNRR W60 DOES NOT compete with MNRR in anyway cause if it did then it would have gotten the axe already cause the amount of people on the W60 to fordham MNRR is extremely low NO lies. greatone is right mt vernon40

I'll agree with that the commuting patterns change as the route progresses to Fordham, but not with the 60 not competing with MNRR within White Plains. The buses that depart southbound usually depart at 50% capacity as they exit White Plains, and gain a little momentum afterwards.

Most MNRR expresses that depart from White Plains have a next stop of Fordham. It's just a more attractive commute, time-wise.

[GreatOne2k]

I'll agree with that the commuting patterns change as the route progresses to Fordham, but not with the 60 not competing with MNRR within White Plains. The buses that depart southbound usually depart at 50% capacity as they exit White Plains, and gain a little momentum afterwards.

Most MNRR expresses that depart from White Plains have a next stop of Fordham. It's just a more attractive commute, time-wise.

After a certain time, only the locals serve Fordham. Most of the day, the expresses don't serve Fordham. No expresses serve Fordham at the time where the W60 only goes to New Rochelle.

During rush hours, then W62 picks up many of the W60 crowds at White Plains.

Do you also think the W40/W41/W43 competes with Metro North?

[Lance]

The W40/41? Hell no. Not unless you like taking a couple of hours to get from White Plains to Wakefield (MNRR). The W43? Maybe, but only if you're heading to the Bronx from Valhalla and vice-versa only. For anywhere else, you're better off hopping on the train.

[GreatOne2k]

The W40/41? Hell no. Not unless you like taking a couple of hours to get from White Plains to Wakefield (MNRR). The W43? Maybe, but only if you're heading to the Bronx from Valhalla and vice-versa only. For anywhere else, you're better off hopping on the train.

Couple of hours? It is actually less than 1 hour scheduled running time between 241 St and White Plains (could be as little as 45 minutes). The W40 is actually quick off peak, because few people get on or off between White Plains and Mt Vernon. The W40/W41 have more rush hour frequency than the W20/W21 because more people ride the W40/W41 for long stretches (like Mt Vernon to White Plains).

Also the Wakefield MNR station is a 6 block walk to the nearest public transportation, where as the 40/41/43 put you off right by the Bx39 and train.

[Shortline Bus]

Couple of hours? It is actually less than 1 hour scheduled running time between 241 St and White Plains (could be as little as 45 minutes). The W40 is actually quick off peak, because few people get on or off between White Plains and Mt Vernon. The W40/W41 have more rush hour frequency than the W20/W21 because more people ride the W40/W41 for long stretches (like Mt Vernon to White Plains).

Also the Wakefield MNR station is a 6 block walk to the nearest public transportation, where as the 40/41/43 put you off right by the Bx39 and train.

great one i think he was talking about the #60 which is easily 90 minutes between the bronx(fordham) and white plains. Add in traffic along Fordham, that could be close to 2 hours.


Couple of more suggestion. *barring making the #1, 2, 7 and 20 run 24/7 365 days a year.(another topic)

1/2-Service is extended to run until 1am(weekdays-last bus leaving 242nd)12:30am(saturdays)and midnight(sunday nights).
4-Service is extended until 12:45am(weekdays-last bus leaving Bedford Park)12:15am(saturday nights)and 11:45pm(sunday nights)
7-Service is extended to run 1am weekdays(last bus from New Rochelle-Yonkers)and Midnight weekends(last bus New Rochelle-Yonkers)for Yonkers Raceway/Empire City customers and employees leaving in Downtown Yonkers.
13-Last weekday westbound trip leaves Port Chester at 1130pm*saturdays at 1030pm and sundays at 930pm.
Also 30-minute headways is extended to 9pm weekdays and 8pm Saturdays.
#14-Extend the last 945pm Northbound 'short trip" Saturday evening service to the Croton-Harmon RR station for connection w/ Hudson line to Peekskill and points north.
#17-Push back the 515pm Northbound 'express' to Peekskill/Corlandt Town Center & depart Downtown White Plains at 6pm.
20- Service Extended to 2am(last bus from Yonkers raceway) 7 days a week. Between 1-2am service runs only between Tuchahoe Rd-Central Ave. via Empire City and Bedford Park.
Bypasses Cross County late nights after 11pm weekdays/saturdays and 9pm sundays.
#25-Service is extended to run until 1am Monday-Saturdays(last bus leaving 238th station)and 12 Midnight Sunday nights.
#40-Alternative buses weekdays and saturdays (all trips after 9pm daily)runs between 241st and WCC via Mount Vernon and White Plains.
#61-Summer time only selected trips is extended to serve Rye Playland.
#77-Create a new roundtrip midday service with a 1030am trip from Baldwin Place-White Plains and 1pm from White Plains-Baldwin Place.

reactions?

[transitanylizer]

I would create a route starting on BWAY @ the 1 Train, up Broadway to Getty Sq terminating at the Yonkers MNR station every 20 min from 10 pm to 2am then every 40 min from 2am to 6am (8am Sundays) 7 days a week

[Shortline Bus]

I would create a route starting on BWAY @ the 1 Train, up Broadway to Getty Sq terminating at the Yonkers MNR station every 20 min from 10 pm to 2am then every 40 min from 2am to 6am (8am Sundays) 7 days a week

welcome aboard. You might as well run the #1(Hastings-Yonkers line)or #2 Tudor Woods with those headways. However i agree Downtown Yonkers should have 24-7 service to/from Bronx. FYI. The #1 and #2 already runs until around Midnight Weeknights and around 11pm Saturday Nights i.e last bus leaving 242.

[40MntVrn]

The simple fact, for me at least, is that the lower Westchester area (Mount Vernon, Yonkers, and New Rochelle) needs an overnight service. I can completely understand that the demand may not be where it needs to be, but that can be easily expanded with some strategy. The prefect example is the last 7, which is typically crush-loaded after meeting with the s/b 20 at Yonkers Ave.

4, 7 (perhaps between Dyre Ave and Yonkers), & 20 (Btwn Yonkers Ave & Central and Bedford @ 45 headways, and btwn White Plains and bedford @ 90 headways) and should all be running all night.

[qjtransitmaster]

great one i think he was talking about the #60 which is easily 90 minutes between the bronx(fordham) and white plains. Add in traffic along Fordham, that could be close to 2 hours.


Couple of more suggestion. *barring making the #1, 2, 7 and 20 run 24/7 365 days a year.(another topic)

1/2-Service is extended to run until 1am(weekdays-last bus leaving 242nd)12:30am(saturdays)and midnight(sunday nights).
4-Service is extended until 12:45am(weekdays-last bus leaving Bedford Park)12:15am(saturday nights)and 11:45pm(sunday nights)
7-Service is extended to run 1am weekdays(last bus from New Rochelle-Yonkers)and Midnight weekends(last bus New Rochelle-Yonkers)for Yonkers Raceway/Empire City customers and employees leaving in Downtown Yonkers.
13-Last weekday westbound trip leaves Port Chester at 1130pm*saturdays at 1030pm and sundays at 930pm.
Also 30-minute headways is extended to 9pm weekdays and 8pm Saturdays.
#14-Extend the last 945pm Northbound 'short trip" Saturday evening service to the Croton-Harmon RR station for connection w/ Hudson line to Peekskill and points north.
#17-Push back the 515pm Northbound 'express' to Peekskill/Corlandt Town Center & depart Downtown White Plains at 6pm.
20- Service Extended to 2am(last bus from Yonkers raceway) 7 days a week. Between 1-2am service runs only between Tuchahoe Rd-Central Ave. via Empire City and Bedford Park.
Bypasses Cross County late nights after 11pm weekdays/saturdays and 9pm sundays.
#25-Service is extended to run until 1am Monday-Saturdays(last bus leaving 238th station)and 12 Midnight Sunday nights.
#40-Alternative buses weekdays and saturdays (all trips after 9pm daily)runs between 241st and WCC via Mount Vernon and White Plains.
#61-Summer time only selected trips is extended to serve Rye Playland.
#77-Create a new roundtrip midday service with a 1030am trip from Baldwin Place-White Plains and 1pm from White Plains-Baldwin Place.

reactions?

Which 1 branch has the highest ridership??

I would combine the PART with beeline new name = putnam/westchester beeline.
77 gains off peak service = to the service levels of the PART 5 then combines with it it becomes open-door north of white plains due to lack of alternatives.

To speed up BL16 merge it with PART 1 BUT sacrifice the oregon rd segment to the BL17 as a result 17 gains full time service absorbing that part it will time with the streamlined BL-16 parts of PART 1 that slow it down are abandoned. The BL 17 will time with amtrak departures from croton harmon at off peak hours at other times it times with peekskill departures. The 17 and 77 may interline with other WP bound routes at random.

Putnam riders no longer have to worry about the last bus as the 16 has a longer service span than the PART 1. 77 may attract weekend ridership to the FDR park demand unknown but watch ridership on saturdays closely!!!!!!!! To determine if it's worth keeping.

W21 ALL TRIPS EXTEND to white plains making LTD stops BL stop the bullshit PPL HATE THE 20!!!!!!! They are fed up with the stops give us the W21 for real!!!!
ALL 20X trips before 9 PM become 21 LTD stop trips

[B35 via Church]

Couple of more suggestion. *barring making the #1, 2, 7 and 20 run 24/7 365 days a year.(another topic)

1/2-Service is extended to run until 1am(weekdays-last bus leaving 242nd)12:30am(saturdays)and midnight(sunday nights).
4-Service is extended until 12:45am(weekdays-last bus leaving Bedford Park)12:15am(saturday nights)and 11:45pm(sunday nights)
7-Service is extended to run 1am weekdays(last bus from New Rochelle-Yonkers)and Midnight weekends(last bus New Rochelle-Yonkers)for Yonkers Raceway/Empire City customers and employees leaving in Downtown Yonkers.
13-Last weekday westbound trip leaves Port Chester at 1130pm*saturdays at 1030pm and sundays at 930pm.
Also 30-minute headways is extended to 9pm weekdays and 8pm Saturdays.
#14-Extend the last 945pm Northbound 'short trip" Saturday evening service to the Croton-Harmon RR station for connection w/ Hudson line to Peekskill and points north.
#17-Push back the 515pm Northbound 'express' to Peekskill/Corlandt Town Center & depart Downtown White Plains at 6pm.
20- Service Extended to 2am(last bus from Yonkers raceway) 7 days a week. Between 1-2am service runs only between Tuchahoe Rd-Central Ave. via Empire City and Bedford Park.
Bypasses Cross County late nights after 11pm weekdays/saturdays and 9pm sundays.
#25-Service is extended to run until 1am Monday-Saturdays(last bus leaving 238th station)and 12 Midnight Sunday nights.
#40-Alternative buses weekdays and saturdays (all trips after 9pm daily)runs between 241st and WCC via Mount Vernon and White Plains.
#61-Summer time only selected trips is extended to serve Rye Playland.
#77-Create a new roundtrip midday service with a 1030am trip from Baldwin Place-White Plains and 1pm from White Plains-Baldwin Place.

reactions?

From what I gather, basically what you want is system-wide late night service on Bee-Line.... You may as well go ahead and say it, bro.....

I don't know enough about Bee-Line's nighttime usage enough to comment on each individual idea here.... but in general, what I will say is, I'm not too sure it would be worth it to increase the spans of the routes (especially to as late as what you're mentioning here)....