LIRR And MNRR Random Thoughts Thread

[checkmatechamp13]

@N6 Limited There's a bus to Stewart Airport from the Beacon station, and then of course the BL-12 (soon to be microtransit) to HPN.

From NYC there is a direct bus to Woodbury Commons, but you are right that there might be some demand for Westchester- Woodbury travel. (I forget offhand, maybe the Orange - Westchester Link from White Plains serves it as well)

[N6 Limited]

3 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@N6 Limited There's a bus to Stewart Airport from the Beacon station, and then of course the BL-12 (soon to be microtransit) to HPN.

From NYC there is a direct bus to Woodbury Commons, but you are right that there might be some demand for Westchester- Woodbury travel. (I forget offhand, maybe the Orange - Westchester Link from White Plains serves it as well)

Ok so riders can ride to the Airport, I was thinking of Peekskill because it’s the closest to Bear Mountain Bridge, where a bus can go across to the Outlet

[Lawrence St]

Why is Wassaic listed as a branch line even though it’s part of the Harlem line?

[trainfan22]

30 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Why is Wassaic listed as a branch line even though it’s part of the Harlem line?

Wassaic line is a shuttle train between Southeast and Wassic. Maybe they want to keep things uniform with the three shuttles that branch off of the NH line.

[Lawrence St]

2 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Wassaic line is a shuttle train between Southeast and Wassic. Maybe they want to keep things uniform with the three shuttles that branch off of the NH line.

With that logic, Croton to Poughkeepsie should be the Poughkeepsie branch.

[checkmatechamp13]

7 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

With that logic, Croton to Poughkeepsie should be the Poughkeepsie branch.

Wassaic only sees direct trains during rush hour (similar to Danbury and New Canaan). Poughkeepsie sees direct trains all day. 

[Lawrence St]

When was the ticket office at Yonkers & Stamford closed?

[Cait Sith]

Looks like a second set of M3s have returned to service. Both are apparently heading to Penn Station.

[Lawrence St]

Speaking of M3’s, how many of the M3A’s have been scrapped?

[trainfan22]

29 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Speaking of M3’s, how many of the M3A’s have been scrapped?

Zero. None have been in an major accident and there's nothing to replace them with.

[trainfan22]

Surprised since the LIRR M3 came back this year, there's only been one set running all this time until today

 

 

There's some railfans on YouTube I'm subbed too that's has multiple videos of the M3s regularly uploaded, giving the impression there was at least multiple sets running at once. 

 

 

Its mindblowing they have that much footage on board of one commuter rail train that seems to run at random, on multiple lines on an daily basis. 

[NewFlyer 230]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

Surprised since the LIRR M3 came back this year, there's only been one set running all this time until today

 

 

There's some railfans on YouTube I'm subbed too that's has multiple videos of the M3s regularly uploaded, giving the impression there was at least multiple sets running at once. 

 

 

It’s mindblowing they have that much footage on board of one commuter rail train that seems to run at random, on multiple lines on a daily basis. 

I saw a set of M3 this morning at Jamaica heading towards Penn Station. 
Maybe they had an inside connection within the LIRR to tell them when the M3’s will be running. 
I suppose if you wait long enough at Jamaica you can catch them being that all branches minus the Port Washington branch stop there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Per Andrew Siff from NBC, the  has officially confirmed that the LIRR Grand Central Madison station will NOT open in 2022. 

Quote

Grand Central Madison - the MTA and the LIRR $11B East Side Access hub — will NOT open in 2022. Per Jamie Torres-Springer, MTA Construction and Development President: “we have advised MTA Chair Janno Lieber that the terminal will not open this week.”

 

[biGC323232]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Per Andrew Siff from NBC, the  has officially confirmed that the LIRR Grand Central Madison station will NOT open in 2022. 

 

How does an 11b dollar project gets delayed....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

How does an 11b dollar project gets delayed....

Apparently there are some things that need to be checked off that can't be done before 2022 comes to an end. That could mean just a couple of days though, but we'll see. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[biGC323232]

33 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Apparently there are some things that need to be checked off that can't be done before 2022 comes to an end. That could mean just a couple of days though, but we'll see. 

No i got it...Its just 11Billion invested into anything should buy the best of the best delays should never be brought into the universe...Come on VG8 11 Billion....lol

Edited December 30, 2022 by biGC323232

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, biGC323232 said:

No i got it...Its just 11Billion invested into anything should buy the best of the best delays should never be brought into the universe...lol

$11 billion for construction for the  doesn't go very far.  That's one of their main issues... They go with the lowest bidder, but their construction costs for a transit agency are some of the highest around.  The fact that there are cost overruns is not that egregious per se, but because the costs are so high to begin with, they are scrutinized more than usual.

That's something else that I wonder about as someone who has worked on bids.  When you go with the lowest bidder, that comes with its own "costs".  That could be experience and talent, cost of materials, etc.  I've been outbid on some projects and I've often wondered if the other companies that bid cut costs by cutting corners. I'm almost sure that this is an issue with the  as well.

[trainfan22]

I read its an ventilation problem (issue with one of the fans) holding up the opening of GCM. There was an news article about it.

Edited December 30, 2022 by trainfan22

[40MntVrn]

At this point, and aside from 'ceremonial reasons', there's no need to open if it's not 100%. They should scrap the whole shuttle plan and just wait to open in its entirety vs a piecemeal that doesn't serve the target audience.

 

[QM1to6Ave]

7 hours ago, 40MntVrn said:

At this point, and aside from 'ceremonial reasons', there's no need to open if it's not 100%. They should scrap the whole shuttle plan and just wait to open in its entirety vs a piecemeal that doesn't serve the target audience.

 

I can see benefits to the shuttle plan, so they can do a "soft opening" and catch problems before they have the full schedule going. Sort of like a new restaurant's soft opening. 

[Lawrence St]

10 hours ago, 40MntVrn said:

At this point, and aside from 'ceremonial reasons', there's no need to open if it's not 100%. They should scrap the whole shuttle plan and just wait to open in its entirety vs a piecemeal that doesn't serve the target audience.

 

I agree with this. It’s a waste of money IMO and they should provide no service until it’s actually ready.

Even when I’m at GCT I have people asking me where LIRR is even though it’s closed.

[checkmatechamp13]

4 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I can see benefits to the shuttle plan, so they can do a "soft opening" and catch problems before they have the full schedule going. Sort of like a new restaurant's soft opening. 

The problem is that any problems you catch will be based off a significantly reduced level of patronage compared to when full service is running there. (The other thing is that in terms of actual train operations, there is already a test period required by the FRA).

To me, the biggest benefits aren't ESA itself, but rather those other benefits such as reverse-peak Main Line service, half hourly Ronkonkoma Branch service, and West Hempstead Branch trains extended to Brooklyn off-peak. Considering that reverse-peak Main Line service actually helps get trains back in place in time to perform a second rush hour trip, I'd say that should be a no-brainer to start first.

For the shuttle itself, the question is will the operation of the shuttle interfere with whatever work is going on at the terminal? If the work is on the track and workers have to clear up every time a shuttle train comes in, and it'll take longer to get it fully functional, then don't run the shuttle. If it's work that is just behind some boarded-up area that customers will have to stay out of while it is going on, then I don't see an issue running the shuttle. (The only question is, how crowded will that shuttle be if it's only once per hour during rush hour, and what impact will that have on passenger perception of the new terminal?)

[B35 via Church]

5 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The problem is that any problems you catch will be based off a significantly reduced level of patronage compared to when full service is running there. (The other thing is that in terms of actual train operations, there is already a test period required by the FRA).

To me, the biggest benefits aren't ESA itself, but rather those other benefits such as reverse-peak Main Line service, half hourly Ronkonkoma Branch service, and West Hempstead Branch trains extended to Brooklyn off-peak. Considering that reverse-peak Main Line service actually helps get trains back in place in time to perform a second rush hour trip, I'd say that should be a no-brainer to start first.

For the shuttle itself, the question is will the operation of the shuttle interfere with whatever work is going on at the terminal? If the work is on the track and workers have to clear up every time a shuttle train comes in, and it'll take longer to get it fully functional, then don't run the shuttle. If it's work that is just behind some boarded-up area that customers will have to stay out of while it is going on, then I don't see an issue running the shuttle. (The only question is, how crowded will that shuttle be if it's only once per hour during rush hour, and what impact will that have on passenger perception of the new terminal?)

Concur with the general point regarding service to GCT not being the better benefit, but I thought all Brooklyn service is supposed to end at that new platform (tracks 11/12) at Jamaica....

[checkmatechamp13]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Concur with the general point regarding service to GCT not being the better benefit, but I thought all Brooklyn service is supposed to end at that new platform (tracks 11/12) at Jamaica....

Here are the full draft schedules: https://new.mta.info/agency/long-island-rail-road/lirr-to-grand-central/schedules

There will be 3 off-peak trains per hour to Brooklyn, with 2 of them being shuttles, and one of them being a West Hempstead train. During rush hour, there will be one single Hempstead train to/from Brooklyn (close to the height of rush hour) and 2-3 individual peak trains to/from Freeport (offset from the height of rush hour)

St. Albans will be served full-time (except overnight) by West Hempstead trains and some rush hour Babylon trains (both directions)

[Lawrence St]

Regarding West Side Access for MNRR, they really really really need to look at an alternative way of adding Astoria to the New Haven Line. That is a gigantic missed opportunity.