Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Armandito said:

There's a rumor I've been reading about regarding the fate of the  express buses if the Rockaway Beach Branch ever gets reactivated for subway service, and it's not a good rumor. There's been some speculation that ridership on those routes will fall off a cliff once the subway reaches the QBL from the Rockaway Peninsula, though we can't be really sure what kind of impact it would have till we actually experience it.

These are rush hour only express buses anyway. If those people really wanted to take the subway, they would be already. 

[Lex]

2 hours ago, Armandito said:

There's a rumor I've been reading about regarding the fate of the  express buses if the Rockaway Beach Branch ever gets reactivated for subway service, and it's not a good rumor. There's been some speculation that ridership on those routes will fall off a cliff once the subway reaches the QBL from the Rockaway Peninsula, though we can't be really sure what kind of impact it would have till we actually experience it.

That would maybe make some sense with respect to the Woodhaven/Cross Bay local/SBS buses, but the express routes? I just don't see it. (I have my own opinions on what should be done with the RBB, but I won't discuss it here.)

[Eric B]

On 12/7/2021 at 8:40 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

  and  riders want faster trips. I don't understand the need to have stops so far north when the  and  can handle that and the stops alone. If you've looked at the amount of stops the  and  make in Brooklyn alone, it's at least 25 stops. Some buses make that many stops total between Manhattan and their respective outerborough.

To cut across Beverley would be the fastest way possible and a great improvement, compared to the way it is now for all the routes (Cortelyou and Church Ave. or staying on the streets ruther until Ft Hamilton, and then the other way getting off the expwy early, to McDonald Ave. or Ft. Hamilton).  They probably don't want to go on the parkway for just that half block, so if you're saying it should go on the parkway sooner, that will never fly.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, Eric B said:

To cut across Beverley would be the fastest way possible and a great improvement, compared to the way it is now for all the routes (Cortelyou and Church Ave. or staying on the streets ruther until Ft Hamilton, and then the other way getting off the expwy early, to McDonald Ave. or Ft. Hamilton).  They probably don't want to go on the parkway for just that half block, so if you're saying it should go on the parkway sooner, that will never fly.

That was actually done a few years ago. I asked the  to do that because of the construction of the building by Cortelyou and Ocean (we were getting a ton of complaints from riders in the group about how long it was taking to get through there). They agreed to try it out for one day or so and then claimed that it made no difference in travel time, which I find hard to believe.

All I can say is I've had numerous conference calls with the  about the BM lines. They have been working with me to get the buses tracking again, which was a huge problem, esp. Downtown. It took a few months, but most issues have been ironed out. The General Manager is in the group, so he also sees what's going on.

Of late it's been better, and they apparently got more drivers hired, as I had asked about it I believe a week or two ago to my contacts. I'm going with stop consolidation simply because I don't think the  wants to create a new route. They want to get the travel times down. I have spoken with both of the senior planners in meetings (NYCT and  Bus) and they have made that clear. We already got a preview of what they want to do with the. Ideally, they would like these routes to be peak only in each direction. Now, whether or not the pandemic and new leadership that has taken over will change their minds, time will tell, but I already know what I'm up against. 

What they may provide however is earlier service. I've had a number of  riders in the group asking for it, and rightfully so. That 5:40am trip regularly gets close to 50 people, almost standing room only. A 5:10 or 5:15am  trip would be ideal.

[B35 via Church]

9 hours ago, Armandito said:

There's a rumor I've been reading about regarding the fate of the  express buses if the Rockaway Beach Branch ever gets reactivated for subway service, and it's not a good rumor. There's been some speculation that ridership on those routes will fall off a cliff once the subway reaches the QBL from the Rockaway Peninsula, though we can't be really sure what kind of impact it would have till we actually experience it.

Sounds like an opinion being presented as a rumor.

9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

These are rush hour only express buses anyway. If those people really wanted to take the subway, they would be already. 

7 hours ago, Lex said:

That would maybe make some sense with respect to the Woodhaven/Cross Bay local/SBS buses, but the express routes? I just don't see it....

I used to take the QM16 (to the Q35) with some regularity, back when I used to work in Manhattan... I would sometimes head up to 34th when I didn't feel like taking any of the BM's home on a particular day.... You would have folks being picked up along Cross Bay, once they got off the bus... These most certainly aren't people that are thinking about the subway... This narrative that the subway is some sort of cure-all really needs to stop...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

Sounds like an opinion being presented as a rumor.

I used to take the QM16 (to the Q35) with some regularity, back when I used to work in Manhattan... I would sometimes head up to 34th when I didn't feel like taking any of the BM's home on a particular day.... You would have folks being picked up along Cross Bay, once they got off the bus... These most certainly aren't people that are thinking about the subway... This narrative that the subway is some sort of cure-all really needs to stop...

There are some people in my group that do everything possible not to take the subway. They don't like taking it. They will drive to other express bus lines if need be. I don't mind taking the subway occasionally, but to have as my every day commute? Absolutely not. Truth be told, that was one of the main reasons I moved where I did, this way my thinking was if the express buses ever were an issue, I have Metro-North I can take into the City to my office. Just less aggravation. Not only that, but pre-pandemic, when I needed the subway in the City, I constantly found myself delayed because of issues, so I actually had to stop taking the subway because of the reliability issues. 

No one says it, but in a way this pandemic has been a blessing of sorts. Our subway system was overtaxed. Overcrowded on some lines and quite frankly, we need to be considering alternatives until more capacity can be added. Ferries, buses... Whatever can help.

[Armandito]

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No one says it, but in a way this pandemic has been a blessing of sorts. Our subway system was overtaxed. Overcrowded on some lines and quite frankly, we need to be considering alternatives until more capacity can be added. Ferries, buses... Whatever can help.

Right on.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

20 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There are some people in my group that do everything possible not to take the subway. They don't like taking it. They will drive to other express bus lines if need be. 

No one says it, but in a way this pandemic has been a blessing of sorts. Our subway system was overtaxed. Overcrowded on some lines and quite frankly, we need to be considering alternatives until more capacity can be added. Ferries, buses... Whatever can help.

 

If history is a reliable guide, then the people who "do everything possible not to take the subway" will also do everything possible to derail (pun intended) any potential solution to the subway system's capacity and crime problems — because the subway would then become more attractive, express buses would lose ridership, and they would risk losing their excuse for avoiding the subway. 

 

That ties in with my general point about the First Rule of Politics (complaining about problems is always better than solving them, because a solved problem is no longer there to complain about or campaign about or fund-raise about).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

If history is a reliable guide, then the people who "do everything possible not to take the subway" will also do everything possible to derail (pun intended) any potential solution to the subway system's capacity and crime problems — because the subway would then become more attractive, express buses would lose ridership, and they would risk losing their excuse for avoiding the subway. 

 

That ties in with my general point about the First Rule of Politics (complaining about problems is always better than solving them, because a solved problem is no longer there to complain about or campaign about or fund-raise about).

No. Those people would be driving. There are a quite a few people like that. They drive into work and back. You are not going to FORCE people to take the subway. For you obviously, you like taking it, but for some people, they have a number of reasons they don't use them. Some people that take the express bus have mobility issues for one, so they would not take the subway regardless of crime or lack there of. My boss is like that. Hasn't used the subway in years because of the stairs. Fell years ago and needed surgery, and while walking isn't an issue, the bus is used for trips to the office, otherwise it's the car.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

If history is a reliable guide, then the people who "do everything possible not to take the subway" will also do everything possible to derail (pun intended) any potential solution to the subway system's capacity and crime problems — because the subway would then become more attractive, express buses would lose ridership, and they would risk losing their excuse for avoiding the subway. 

That ties in with my general point about the First Rule of Politics (complaining about problems is always better than solving them, because a solved problem is no longer there to complain about or campaign about or fund-raise about).

Pure black & white thinking on display here; as if indifference isn't a thing....

This notion that those that do everything possible to avoid taking the subway somehow wants to go about seeing it burn (figuratively speaking), for something as trivial as having a f***ing talking point (like, an excuse) in their back pocket, is pure fallacy.... Those people are going to go about their business using whatever other means to get around, not chomping at the bit to denounce any & every possible solution that would go towards bettering the subway.... Your 'professional complainers' rhetoric you've been parroting on these parts every so often for years on end, large in part, doesn't apply here...

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No. Those people would be driving. There are a quite a few people like that. They drive into work and back. You are not going to FORCE people to take the subway. For you obviously, you like taking it, but for some people, they have a number of reasons they don't use them. Some people that take the express bus have mobility issues for one, so they would not take the subway regardless of crime or lack there of. My boss is like that. Hasn't used the subway in years because of the stairs. Fell years ago and needed surgery, and while walking isn't an issue, the bus is used for trips to the office, otherwise it's the car.

Right.... Just because someone stopped taking the subway doesn't mean, or have to mean that they now have some level of hatred for the thing.... Sometimes, for whatever your reasons, you just move on from shit...

The speaking in absolutes there is also rather conspicuous; interesting how express buses would lose ridership due to *some solution* that would positively affect the subway, as if there aren't express bus riders that, well, primarily want to take the express... Novel concept, isn't it... Lol....

[Eric B]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:17 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That was actually done a few years ago. I asked the  to do that because of the construction of the building by Cortelyou and Ocean (we were getting a ton of complaints from riders in the group about how long it was taking to get through there). They agreed to try it out for one day or so and then claimed that it made no difference in travel time, which I find hard to believe.e ideal.

Wow; didn't know that! But if they were only avoiding Cortelyou and Ocean (I see they tore down another old church over there!) then did they take Beverley all the way across from the parkway to the avenue (or Flatbush), or did it still do the McDonald Ave. CI Avenue thing? All of that's where a lot of the time is lost as well. So I could see where it wouldn't make as much of a difference. All of those jagged turns might seem small by themselves, but they add up.

Quote

All I can say is I've had numerous conference calls with the  about the BM lines. They have been working with me to get the buses tracking again, which was a huge problem, esp. Downtown. It took a few months, but most issues have been ironed out. The General Manager is in the group, so he also sees what's going on.

So what is your position? I didn't know you were some kind of official that dealt with the MTA like that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 hours ago, Eric B said:

Wow; didn't know that! But if they were only avoiding Cortelyou and Ocean (I see they tore down another old church over there!) then did they take Beverley all the way across from the parkway to the avenue (or Flatbush), or did it still do the McDonald Ave. CI Avenue thing? All of that's where a lot of the time is lost as well. So I could see where it wouldn't make as much of a difference. All of those jagged turns might seem small by themselves, but they add up.

So what is your position? I didn't know you were some kind of official that dealt with the MTA like that.

lol Probably, in years' past, the  would tell me to go buzz off, but after I spoke at a board meeting about how unhappy I was with express bus service and me starting an online advocacy group, we eventually started a dialogue, though it was not a nice one. Neither side liked one another. It's become more cordial, so I usually deal with people from Government and Community Relations, who links me to people in Planning, etc. 

Unlike advocacy groups that are official non-profits that are paid, I volunteer my time as do a few other commuters that run express bus groups. My group and some others on Staten Island. We're just a bunch of commuters that became fed up with crap service. Nothing more, nothing less. I believe the system can and must improve.

As for the routing, I checked e-mails about this from last year. Doesn't say specifically how far, but it says this:

Quote

We looked at this last fall and found that the traffic was being caused by construction at 1921 Cortelyou Road. A detour was tried via Beverley Road instead of Cortelyou but proved to provide no operational benefit over staying on-route (travel times were the same).

I understand now that the conditions on the road have improved upon what they were several months ago. For example, the barrier on Cortelyou Road in front of the building construction site has been pulled back and now blocks less of the roadway.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Eric B]

"Beverley instead of Cortelyou" sounds like it was just in the same stretch then: CI-Ocean/Flatbush, then.

They need to try all the way from Ocean-Ocean!

[rfecker]

what lines seriously need a limited that dont have right now ?