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NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013


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Suggestions/ Ideas and Proposals:

 

161 (New York - Paterson)

 

- 24 hour route with 2 hour headways on weekday nights, 2.5 hour headways on weekend nights to and from New York.

- More weekday service between (6-9am) from New York via Union City to Teterboro or Paterson (via Washington Avenue), buses get packed!

- Better spacing between buses from Route 46 (Teterboro) to Union City/New York, serious bunching issues after 4pm, some buses have 9 people on it, I have seen one bus with 92+ fare collections.

 

 

10 (Bayonne - Jersey City (Journal Square))

- Begin a run from Staten Island at the intersection of Forest Avenue/Richmond Avenue via Morningstar to JFK all the way to Journal Square. The bus would run every 2-4 hours on weekdays/weekdays. It would also be a 3rd intrastate zone with Richmond/Forest being the only stop on Staten Island. Personally, I think there is demand based on personal observation of increased interstate passengers on the s89, specifically folks going from Staten Island to Bayonne.

 

Hypothetical 388 (Staten Island - Newark Airport - Newark Penn Station)

- Begin an airport bus route, route would be the underutilized Outerbridge P&R (so folks can park cars for a nominal fee (not $24 hours per day ) up Richmond (K War Vets) Parkway to Eltingville Transit Center (transfer point for passengers from local buses, no long term parking) and then Showplace P&R (another pay parking lot).

- One stop in Elizabeth before 1/9 to stops at Terminals A, B, C.

- End stop in Newark Penn Station bus lanes (additional option for passengers going to/from EWR).

- Fare would be $10 and equipment used would be MCI's

Edited by 161passenger
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Suggestions/ Ideas and Proposals:

 

161 (New York - Paterson)

 

- 24 hour route with 2 hour headways on weekday nights, 2.5 hour headways on weekend nights to and from New York.

- More weekday service between (6-9am) from New York via Union City to Teterboro or Paterson (via Washington Avenue), buses get packed!

- Better spacing between buses from Route 46 (Teterboro) to Union City/New York, serious bunching issues after 4pm, some buses have 9 people on it, I have seen one bus with 92+ fare collections.

 

 

10 (Bayonne - Jersey City (Journal Square))

- Begin a run from Staten Island at the intersection of Forest Avenue/Richmond Avenue via Morningstar to JFK all the way to Journal Square. The bus would run every 2-4 hours on weekdays/weekdays. It would also be a 3rd intrastate zone with Richmond/Forest being the only stop on Staten Island. Personally, I think there is demand based on personal observation of increased interstate passengers on the s89, specifically folks going from Staten Island to Bayonne.

 

Hypothetical 388 (Staten Island - Newark Airport - Newark Penn Station)

- Begin an airport bus route, route would be the underutilized Outerbridge P&R (so folks can park cars for a nominal fee (not $24 hours per day ) up Richmond (K War Vets) Parkway to Eltingville Transit Center (transfer point for passengers from local buses, no long term parking) and then Showplace P&R (another pay parking lot).

- One stop in Elizabeth before 1/9 to stops at Terminals A, B, C.

- End stop in Newark Penn Station bus lanes (additional option for passengers going to/from EWR).

- Fare would be $10 and equipment used would be MCI's

 

 

Very interesting proposals for the 10 and a suggested new route. Staten Island seems to be a place that has mass potencial for transit. NJT should capitalize on it

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10 (Bayonne - Jersey City (Journal Square))

- Begin a run from Staten Island at the intersection of Forest Avenue/Richmond Avenue via Morningstar to JFK all the way to Journal Square. The bus would run every 2-4 hours on weekdays/weekdays. It would also be a 3rd intrastate zone with Richmond/Forest being the only stop on Staten Island. Personally, I think there is demand based on personal observation of increased interstate passengers on the s89, specifically folks going from Staten Island to Bayonne.

 

Hypothetical 388 (Staten Island - Newark Airport - Newark Penn Station)

- Begin an airport bus route, route would be the underutilized Outerbridge P&R (so folks can park cars for a nominal fee (not $24 hours per day ) up Richmond (K War Vets) Parkway to Eltingville Transit Center (transfer point for passengers from local buses, no long term parking) and then Showplace P&R (another pay parking lot).

- One stop in Elizabeth before 1/9 to stops at Terminals A, B, C.

- End stop in Newark Penn Station bus lanes (additional option for passengers going to/from EWR).

- Fare would be $10 and equipment used would be MCI's

 

 

10 At first I didn't like the idea of service being taken away from the southern part of Bayonne to serve SI, but then I looked at the map and saw that it was a relatively small section of Bayonne (and I guess you could always just add an extra bus an hour along JFK Blvd, and the people in the southern part of Bayonne just won't be served, or maybe somehow extend the #81 over to that area)

 

I think it should serve the 8th Street HBLR station. NJ-bound buses could take West 7th Street-Avenue C-North Avenue-JFK Blvd. I'm not sure what route SI buses could take. Maybe take West 8th Street-Avenue C-North Street-Avenue A and get on Rt. 440 that way.

 

I think it should run every hour. Maybe it's because I'm not used to NJ routes the way you are, but I prefer that routes run no less than every hour.

 

388 I don't think buses are allowed on that parkway, so they'd probably have to take the WSE to Arthur Kill Road.

 

If you're going to have it serve the ETC, you might as well have it run along Richmond Avenue instead of going out to Travis. There's no really good parking lot, but at least you better-serve some residential areas, so a parking lot isn't as needed.

 

Like I said, I would personally prefer an extension of the S98 to Elizabeth (and then riders could take the train to Newark Penn or the bus to EWR), but that would be better than nothing. Ideally, there would be enough demand for both routes.

 

- s89 an observation of, increased interstate travel in BOTH directions, particularly the AM going to Staten Island and PM going to Bayonne.

 

 

I've noticed that as well. I often see those buses as they pull into/out of Walker Street and it looks like you got maybe 5-10 people on each bus going over the Bayonne Bridge. Obviously not a whole lot, but still decent for reverse-peak ridership. But it seems kind of random, because I sometimes see the buses between Forest Avenue and the SIE (Northbound in the PM), and they have 2 people, and other times they have like 10 people. Personally, I think it would be higher if it were streamlined with the S44 & S59 near the SI Mall, but that's for the SI thread.

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Speaking of the 139, can someone break down all the service patterns/ "short turns" that route has....

(I'm not talking about the separate 130, 132, 136, or 138 routes)

 

 

 

For the 139,

 

You have the full 139 Lakewood via Freehold Mall/Center

 

then

 

139 Old Bridge P/R Only

139 Union Hill P/R

139 Freehold Center

139 Howell Twp/Casino Dr

139 Howell Twp/Aldrich Rd

 

Then you have a couple of 139s that start at Freehold Center and run down to Lakewood. I'm assuming these are put ins from Howell.

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For the 139,

 

You have the full 139 Lakewood via Freehold Mall/Center

 

then

 

139 Old Bridge P/R Only

139 Union Hill P/R

139 Freehold Center

139 Howell Twp/Casino Dr

139 Howell Twp/Aldrich Rd

 

Then you have a couple of 139s that start at Freehold Center and run down to Lakewood. I'm assuming these are put ins from Howell.

 

 

at least that takes care of the confusion there

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You missing the point Q23. Since it seems you never been on it, the #67 provides the only 1-seat transit ride between Downtown Newark/Newark Airport and Old Bridge/Rt.9 coordior and Toms River. Why should those going between Newark and NJ shore have to backtrack to NYC and go to the PABT? Not to mention the #67 provides coverage on Rt.9 as a 2nd route when 139 is delayed on Manhattan trips.

 

It not the same to make proposals for bus ideas from a map or computer if you never been on it. Not meant to be rude but Q23 I think you should stick to NYC bus ideas.

 

Okay I take back my 67 proposal of discontinuing the 67. However I have another proposal for the 67.

67: Extended to Atlantic City during the summer instead of transfering to the 319 weekends

Edited by Q23 Central Term
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Okay I take back my 67 proposal of discontinuing the 67. However I have another proposal for the 67.

67: Extended to Atlantic City during the summer instead of transfering to the 319 weekends

 

 

Good luck with that. Howell will bitch about that in a second. They'll bitch about traveling that far down south, about driving for that long of a period, and about Meadowlands doing it, because no way NJT would allow that line to be done by only Howell, and if the 67 had a AC trip on summer time, a Mead B/O can travel down to AC and change to a 319 back to Jersey City or New York.

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Good luck with that. Howell will bitch about that in a second. They'll bitch about traveling that far down south, about driving for that long of a period, and about Meadowlands doing it, because no way NJT would allow that line to be done by only Howell, and if the 67 had a AC trip on summer time, a Mead B/O can travel down to AC and change to a 319 back to Jersey City or New York.

 

So you are telling me that since it would have to be a split, that the 67 would have to interline with the 319. But the 319 is split with Egg Harbor. I know that deadheading has a value also, but isn't the proposal based on the customers needs more than the operator's wants.

Can't Egg Harbor than operate it.

Other Proposals:

64/68: Combine the 64 route with the 68, discontinuing the GSP route. The 64 would operate the entire routing of the 68 then follow the 139 route to Lakewood. Also the 64 would be extended to serve those part time trips the 67 currently serves. These 67 trips would be transferred unto the 64 line.

Edited by Q23 Central Term
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Okay I take back my 67 proposal of discontinuing the 67. However I have another proposal for the 67.

67: Extended to Atlantic City during the summer instead of transfering to the 319 weekends

 

 

Actually Newark/Journal Sq. riders already has 1-2 daily trips to/from AC on a sub branch of the 319. If you suggesting to add maybe 1-2 more trips on the weekend(right now it's 1 trip each way Saturday/Sundays)then that makes more sense. Plus riders can transfer to either the 559 (Route 9 local) or 319 "express" to/from AC. And why Q23 you refuse to being honest and just admit you never been on that part of NJ Transit? It's no shame you only a teen. My 1st trip to AC was when i was 20 years of age.

 

Instead of extending the #67 down to AC a better idea during the summer is to extend to nearby Seaside Heights (Hello TV show "Jersey Shore" lol :lol: )instead. Currently there very limited service between North Jersey/NYC and Seaside so that a better option imo.

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Actually Newark/Journal Sq. riders already has 1-2 daily trips to/from AC on a sub branch of the 319. If you suggesting to add maybe 1-2 more trips on the weekend(right now it's 1 trip each way Saturday/Sundays)then that makes more sense. Plus riders can transfer to either the 559 (Route 9 local) or 319 "express" to/from AC. And why Q23 you refuse to being honest and just admit you never been on that part of NJ Transit? It's no shame you only a teen. My 1st trip to AC was when i was 20 years of age.

 

Instead of extending the #67 down to AC a better idea during the summer is to extend to nearby Seaside Heights (Hello TV show "Jersey Shore" lol :lol: )instead. Currently there very limited service between North Jersey/NYC and Seaside so that a better option imo.

 

Well that's what I meant, Adding trips to AC for more convienence. And this wont be all year that I propose this. I havent been on that part of NJ Transit, yes I admit. The only routes I really know are in the north. (e.g, 171, 175, 181, 188 , 191, 195, etc.)

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Well that's what I meant, Adding trips to AC for more convienence. And this wont be all year that I propose this. I havent been on that part of NJ Transit, yes I admit. The only routes I really know are in the north. (e.g, 171, 175, 181, 188 , 191, 195, etc.)

 

Does anyone think the 62 should be split

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Q23 #1 you CAN'T merge 68 w/64/63 those lines by themselves get packed those ppl WILL RIOT!!!! #2 NJT also thinks the same way on 62 as it will be split into 2 lines new 48 replaces 62 south of elizbeth and 62 will in fact get split. I just came from a meeting confirming this they had a hearing on the 12th discussing it as part of their optimization initiative.

 

BZguy how frequent will 313 be on its full rte to cape may??

 

161 thx to a change to the 62 no need for 388 if njt gets their way with 62 then extending that would be a better idea via I-278& ETC

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Does anyone think the 62 should be split

 

Some coincidence... I took the 62 to woodbridge mall today.....

I'm actually shocked that there was never more than 7 people on the bus the entire route... it was the 6:05pm out of NWK-penn....

Most other 62's I've been on (either direction) have been absolutely packed....

 

I can pretty much break down the ridership habits (moreso the ones that go via Colonia over the ones that go via Carteret), but still though.... I can't give a solidified opinion on whether it should be split or not b/c I don't know it THAT well - I just want to see how NJT plans on splitting the route.....

 

 

Okay I take back my 67 proposal of discontinuing the 67. However I have another proposal for the 67.

 

67: Extended to Atlantic City during the summer instead of transfering to the 319 weekends

 

That's why the 319 exists - It's an express to Atlantic City.....

 

What you really should be proposing is more 319 service out of Newark-Penn, not prolonging the 67 by another hour for the sake of making a few people's trips a little more convenient..... How many people do you think is taking the 67 to the 319 @ toms river for AC? If it's anything riders are doing, it's having family/friends meet up at toms river (in cars) to drive them further south of toms river or whatever..... Hell, that's even done by pax taking 319's out of PABT !

 

Why do you think there are 559 riders that take that route to toms river for the 319 if they want AC (quicker... b/c seldom anyone is taking the full 559)? If the xfer to the 319 is good enough for 559 riders out of Lakewood, etc. tryna get to AC (quicker), the xfer to the 319 is good enough for anyone coming off the 67 to get to AC.....

 

 

 

Other Proposals:

 

64/68: Combine the 64 route with the 68, discontinuing the GSP route. The 64 would operate the entire routing of the 68 then follow the 139 route to Lakewood. Also the 64 would be extended to serve those part time trips the 67 currently serves. These 67 trips would be transferred unto the 64 line.

 

So you want service along route 18 to be a branch of the 64 ?

 

My only question is, what purpose does this merge serve.....

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Some coincidence... I took the 62 to woodbridge mall today.....

I'm actually shocked that there was never more than 7 people on the bus the entire route... it was the 6:05pm out of NWK-penn....

Most other 62's I've been on (either direction) have been absolutely packed....

 

I can pretty much break down the ridership habits (moreso the ones that go via Colonia over the ones that go via Carteret), but still though.... I can't give a solidified opinion on whether it should be split or not b/c I don't know it THAT well - I just want to see how NJT plans on splitting the route.....

 

 

 

 

That's why the 319 exists - It's an express to Atlantic City.....

 

What you really should be proposing is more 319 service out of Newark-Penn, not prolonging the 67 by another hour for the sake of making a few people's trips a little more convenient..... How many people do you think is taking the 67 to the 319 @ toms river for AC? If it's anything riders are doing, it's having family/friends meet up at toms river (in cars) to drive them further south of toms river or whatever..... Hell, that's even done by pax taking 319's out of PABT !

 

Why do you think there are 559 riders that take that route to toms river for the 319 if they want AC (quicker... b/c seldom anyone is taking the full 559)? If the xfer to the 319 is good enough for 559 riders out of Lakewood, etc. tryna get to AC (quicker), the xfer to the 319 is good enough for anyone coming off the 67 to get to AC.....

 

 

 

 

 

So you want service along route 18 to be a branch of the 64 ?

 

My only question is, what purpose does this merge serve.....

 

The 64 would operate the entire route of the 68 until JT, then to Lakewood. All 64 buses would be rerouted unto the 68 route then on the 139 afterward.. Trips from the 67 to the part time terminal would be transferred to the 64. These part time 67's would terminate in Toms River instead of its current terminus. The new 64 would operate to the part time 67 terminal. The 64 operates along GSP, so it wouldnt miss any of it's current stops. It will make more stops though. The new routing will make all 64s along Rt 18. Also those current 68 trips would be extended to Lakewood.

Edited by Q23 Central Term
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again those folks will not have it they will RIOT at the idea of merging 68&64 they are both good as is if you want lakewood take 818 to 139 done. if you're from jersey city going to lakewood you do not want to go via route 18 use 64 if you need 18 corridor use 68 plain and simple don't complicate things. You Q23 are obviously not jersey certified or experienced so explore NJ allover then perfect your ideas cause all your NJ plans so far are woefully incomplete and well awful. Just sayin Even on paper it makes no sense. you dont take 2 lines with different markets and merge em

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The 64 would operate the entire route of the 68 until JT, then to Lakewood. All 64 buses would be rerouted unto the 68 route then on the 139 afterward.. Trips from the 67 to the part time terminal would be transferred to the 64. These part time 67's would terminate in Toms River instead of its current terminus. The new 64 would operate to the part time 67 terminal. The 64 operates along GSP, so it wouldnt miss any of it's current stops. It will make more stops though. The new routing will make all 64s along Rt 18. Also those current 68 trips would be extended to Lakewood.

 

so what you're suggesting is actually worse than what I thought.....

 

- The 67 gives route 9 riders direct access to EWR & NWK-Penn....

- The 64 gives route 9 riders direct access to Weehawken, Hoboken, and Jersey City.....

- The 68 gives route 18 (which is East Brunswick), etc riders direct access to Weehawken, Hoboken, and Jersey City....

 

 

You want to have the 64 take over the 68 route.... and to necessitate for the loss in 64 service north of 516 (pretty much meaning service to the old bridge p&r), have the part time 67's (which you would turn into 64's) pick up that slack..... Problem with that is the 67 & the 68 don't serve the same part of north jersey....

 

Regardless of that, I'm still not getting the benefit of this plan/suggestion of yours... You want to phase out the 68 & consolidate its route into the 64 for no real reason..... Yeah they both run to Weehawken, Hoboken, and Jersey City, but they're serving two different riderbases...... The more south you go on rt. 9, the more of those riders you're not going to get to accept a 64 diversion going along rt. 18 & cr 516... Prolonging the ride/commute on the 64 is only gonna yield less people wanting to take that route.....

 

The 67 part of the plan, you're kinda making statements that cancel each other out....You're saying trips from the 67 to the part time terminal (which is Lakewood) would be transferred to the 64....If they're transferred over to the 64, then what part time 67's would be left over to terminate in toms river instead of Lakewood... lol.... You would just have every 67 running to toms river at that point.... As for your new 64 operating to the part time 67 terminal? The 64 already operates to Lakewood !

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so what you're suggesting is actually worse than what I thought.....

 

- The 67 gives route 9 riders direct access to EWR & NWK-Penn....

- The 64 gives route 9 riders direct access to Weehawken, Hoboken, and Jersey City.....

- The 68 gives route 18 (which is East Brunswick), etc riders direct access to Weehawken, Hoboken, and Jersey City....

 

 

You want to have the 64 take over the 68 route.... and to necessitate for the loss in 64 service north of 516 (pretty much meaning service to the old bridge p&r), have the part time 67's (which you would turn into 64's) pick up that slack..... Problem with that is the 67 & the 68 don't serve the same part of north jersey....

 

Regardless of that, I'm still not getting the benefit of this plan/suggestion of yours... You want to phase out the 68 & consolidate its route into the 64 for no real reason..... Yeah they both run to Weehawken, Hoboken, and Jersey City, but they're serving two different riderbases...... The more south you go on rt. 9, the more of those riders you're not going to get to accept a 64 diversion going along rt. 18 & cr 516... Prolonging the ride/commute on the 64 is only gonna yield less people wanting to take that route.....

 

The 67 part of the plan, you're kinda making statements that cancel each other out....You're saying trips from the 67 to the part time terminal (which is Lakewood) would be transferred to the 64....If they're transferred over to the 64, then what part time 67's would be left over to terminate in toms river instead of Lakewood... lol.... You would just have every 67 running to toms river at that point.... As for your new 64 operating to the part time 67 terminal? The 64 already operates to Lakewood !

 

you don't get the benefit of this plan cause there is NONE. Ridership would plummet on both lines if these changes were implemented noone would use em NJT however did try and propose a new brunswick to lakewood rte but was later scrapped since you can already do it via 818& 139. Again 64 & 68 have ridership ppl want more service. This is by far the worst plan ever created on these NJT forums Even my old plan wasn't this bad and I scrapped it. I think I went too far this time gonna take a rest.
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you don't get the benefit of this plan cause there is NONE. Ridership would plummet on both lines if these changes were implemented noone would use em NJT however did try and propose a new brunswick to lakewood rte but was later scrapped since you can already do it via 818& 139. Again 64 & 68 have ridership ppl want more service.

 

 

 

 

Lol. Man everytime i try n post B35 sums it up!

 

lol.... at first, I didn't quite get what he was tryna say, especially w/ the 67 (which he first suggested sending to AC... lmao).....

 

Fact of the matter is, can't go around looking to alter suburban routes like you would city routes.... NJT has the 63/64, 67, and 68 setups right..... We aint talkin bout block-by-block travel where you have alternate routes at your disposal, we're talking regional travel.... b/w Central jersey & North jersey....

 

At this rate, what's next - Getting rid of the 136 "EPRESS" & extending the 135 down to Lakewood via freehold mall ?

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lol.... at first, I didn't quite get what he was tryna say, especially w/ the 67 (which he first suggested sending to AC... lmao).....

 

Fact of the matter is, can't go around looking to alter suburban routes like you would city routes.... NJT has the 63/64, 67, and 68 setups right..... We aint talkin bout block-by-block travel where you have alternate routes at your disposal, we're talking regional travel.... b/w Central jersey & North jersey....

 

At this rate, what's next - Getting rid of the 136 "EPRESS" & extending the 135 down to Lakewood via freehold mall ?

 

regional travel is my specialty As I frequent suburban systems all over I haven't yet mastered CT or even MD yet but based on trip generators my MD proposal has a strong case. NJT I used very often recently especially in south jersey I spoke with NJT bus planner in person and got a good schooling on concepts I didn't understand earlier I am humbily grateful. He did admit SJ was severly underserved. He also explained cost per hour and other time concepts. Some higher up asked what I did as a job after speaking. I learned one was even born in E NY back in the day
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Maybe add a couple of trips rush hours, and maybe add 1-2 trips in each direction on the 171 on Weekends. The 175 maybe needs one more trip rush hours and one less trip at night.

 

 

The thing is that now NJT is tight on money. We all know NJT didn't look too good in 2010 with the fare hikes. Another hike in two years would cause a major disaster since people would find alternative routes to work, thus the studies were done to see which lines need the trips that they have or not. Why you guys think they're getting rid of the 75? Eliminate Sunday service on the 181? Reducing service on some lines, but also adding service on lines that need it?

 

As for the 171/175: That is a smoking gun at the moment. As we speak, the GWBBS is going through a reconstruction, and traffic already going into the GWB is poor due to ANOTHER construction. Thus, time really can't factor in since no one really knows how bad traffic will be, affecting the buses. I was looking at the new schedules coming out in a few days. ALL GWB LINES ARE UPDATED. It's so bad that the B/O only has ONE MINUTE, the second they are SCHEDULED to get in the station to get to the gate. As someone that loved the 188, if I was there, I would pick a new piece in a second. Bad enough all the GWB lines are on NABI's (UGH) but only a minute? Hello, can I pee, wash my hands, and maybe get a cup of coffee before going back out? That is NUTS! Market Street and Meadowlands.......I feel really bad for you guys!

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