How fast is the CPW express?

[TheSubwayStation]

Recently I watched this video on Youtube of an train going REALLY fast on the CPW express:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ct1qdV7NP0

 

Is this speed really possible? There are timers in this area, but the guy who posted the video said, "There are quite a few in the system that T/O's run." Wouldn't the T/O get tripped? Or do you think this video was sped up?

 

Also, what about this video? (PLEASE ignore the drug addict in front of the camera .) That WAS NOT the reason why I'm including this video. Focus on the stations passing by.

 

 

This train appears to be doing about 37-38 MPH passing 96 St and 44 passing 110 St. Most trains don't seem to go this fast. It would be great to hear from some people who know about the speed that trains can go on the CPW line, and if it is common to reach this speed.

[TwoTimer]

This is the exact thing I do to clear the timers... (mph is approximate "based" with how good the train is +/- 2mph)

 

Power up from 59 - 86th first timer... (33), 2nd timer two points (34), then coast all the way to the bottom of the hill (41) (or hold 10 pound brake on R68/A) as train will gather speed on the way down, but not until after it clears the timer on the hill, brake on the upgrade into the middle of 110 as going down to (36) will clear the timer between 110-116, full power till the end of 116 (41) then a good brake for the slower timer at the beginning of the curve (20), power back up and then two points into 125 (25mph entering 125, sometimes enforced by radar gun).

 

Going south is slower... Full power from 125 to midway between 86-81 (39) as the first G45 timer clears on the post. 2nd timer train is brought down to (25) using a R46 minibrake (15lb on R68/A), and is held there for two timers as the 2nd home signal between 81-72 sometimes hangs up even though it supposed to clear at (27). Once that second one clears, back to full power until train round the bend between 72-59 (35). Train is slowed down to clear the next two (19) then power until the middle of 59 (27) then brake smoothly to the [10].

[TheSubwayStation]

How does this run compare to most of the IRT manhattan express runs? And also, can you tell me how fast it used to be (say, 20 years ago)?

 

Thanks

[error46146]

With all the added timers and the TSS lurking around doing speed checks, you can't blast into a station like you used to anymore

[TwoTimer]

I wasn't a T/O 20 years ago (I'm only 30 lol) so I cant give you a play by play of what is done in that corridor. Of course trains were faster then until Robery Ray/Willie B messed things up and got all these timers put in there in the first place. The fastest corridor in Manhattan is the 72-42 on the when 50 is not uncommon with a good train. Next comes 49 with the Lex 86-125, followed by 48 to 42-59.

 

With all the added timers and the TSS lurking around doing speed checks, you can't blast into a station like you used to anymore

 

Most stations that can still be done, on curves there always were speed limits and occasional radar gun checks. QBL is infamous for this because its outer tracks remain untimed (!) in both directions between Briarwood and 36st.

[TheSubwayStation]

I wasn't a T/O 20 years ago (I'm only 30 lol) so I cant give you a play by play of what is done in that corridor. Of course trains were faster then until Robery Ray/Willie B messed things up and got all these timers put in there in the first place. The fastest corridor in Manhattan is the 72-42 on the when 50 is not uncommon with a good train. Next comes 49 with the Lex 86-125, followed by 48 to 42-59.

 

Thanks. Do you know if the tales of 55-65 MPH express runs (before the field shunting was removed) were true, or just nostalgic railfans overestimating the speed of the old SMEEs?

 

For example, here is a pre-1995 redbird that does not appear to be going faster than today's R142/As on the Lexington Av express: (skip to 10:20 for the express run)

 

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nysrYQyZxio&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLFF5DA081A252A7DB[/media]

[TwoTimer]

Both. Faster than today, but slightly overestimated. 50+ was regular in express runs (as supposed to mostly low 40s), but the subways were no LIRR/MNR.

[TheSubwayStation]

Both. Faster than today, but slightly overestimated. 50+ was regular in express runs (as supposed to mostly low 40s), but the subways were no LIRR/MNR.

 

This is interesting.

 

In the R142A, I calculated 48 MPH s/b passing 103 St on the Lex. The redbird hit only 49 MPH in the video above.

 

Also, take a look at this footage of the 1991 express; at 3:55 the redbird can be seen going only 37 MPH:

 

 

 

This is what makes me question the speed of the old trains.

[TwoTimer]

This is interesting.

 

In the R142A, I calculated 48 MPH s/b passing 103 St on the Lex. The redbird hit only 49 MPH in the video above.

 

Also, take a look at this footage of the 1991 express; at 3:55 the redbird can be seen going only 37 MPH:

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

This is what makes me question the speed of the old trains.

 

I was talking about the faster ones, not all of them. The only place you're guaranteed to hit the magic number (50) is the 60th tube in both directions.

[TheSubwayStation]

I was talking about the faster ones, not all of them. The only place you're guaranteed to hit the magic number (50) is the 60th tube in both directions.

 

Ah, so do you mean that the "regular" express runs didn't hit 50, even back in the days of field shunting? E.g. express runs not known for being especially fast?

 

BTW, thanks for answering all of my questions so quickly and helpfully. Knowledgable people like you really make this forum what it is, IMO.

[error46146]

the L tube was pretty fast too even before CBTC lol

[LTA1992]

As long as 7 minutes remains the time between 59th and 125, it's fast enough.

 

But the fastest I've been, where I knew the speed, was 55 on the 4th Avenue Express back when the had R32s. Then when JetBlue sponsored the R1/R9s run from 125-Howard Beach, I was in the first car and on the CPW, someone mentioned we hit 60.

[TheSubwayStation]

As long as 7 minutes remains the time between 59th and 125, it's fast enough.

 

Yes, it is 7 minutes.

 

 

Then when JetBlue sponsored the R1/R9s run from 125-Howard Beach, I was in the first car and on the CPW, someone mentioned we hit 60.

 

I highly, highly, highly doubt that you actually reached 60.

 

 

Ah, so do you mean that the "regular" express runs didn't hit 50, even back in the days of field shunting? E.g. express runs not known for being especially fast?

 

I would definitely like to know the answer to this; what an average express run was like in the old days.

[TwoTimer]

Remember, there were fewer timers then, so fast express runs were still fast or slightly faster than today, then the slower ones were fast now. Can you imagine the CPW if it were no timers until 116 n/b and nothing s/b except some quick GT25 ones right before 59 (only in effect of the switch is reversed). Remember, the train stops taking power around 86 n/b and just rolls. To take power is to hit the timer midway down the hill.

[TheSubwayStation]

What would a 35-40 MPH express run (like Chambers St-14 St) have been like in the old days? Thanks for answering so many of my questions. If you don't know the answer to this one, it's fine .

 

BTW, why is the MTA worried about excess speed on the downgrade on the CPW express? Is it that the signals there can't protect trains going at 50 MPH? Are the signals on the 4 Av express (where trains often hit 50 MPH) farther apart?

 

And what do you think slowed down the trains the most: timers, or the removal of field shunting?

[Threxx]

What would a 35-40 MPH express run (like Chambers St-14 St) have been like in the old days? Thanks for answering so many of my questions. If you don't know the answer to this one, it's fine .

 

BTW, why is the MTA worried about excess speed on the downgrade on the CPW express? Is it that the signals there can't protect trains going at 50 MPH? Are the signals on the 4 Av express (where trains often hit 50 MPH) farther apart?

 

And what do you think slowed down the trains the most: timers, or the removal of field shunting?

 

 

Chambers St-14th probably could have only gotten to 45 without the timers...

 

And yes, about the second question, BMT signals are more spaced apart than IND signals.

[TheSubwayStation]

Chambers St-14th probably could have only gotten to 45 without the timers...

 

That's including field shunting, right?

 

And yes, about the second question, BMT signals are more spaced apart than IND signals.

 

Really? I would think that the newer IND signals would be designed for faster trains.

 

[TwoTimer]

Chambers St-14th probably could have only gotten to 45 without the timers...

 

And yes, about the second question, BMT signals are more spaced apart than IND signals.

 

It all depends on location, not company of origin. I can run up on a timer on CPW that didn't clear and still stop the train from 40mph, there's literally about 1000 feet between signals. All areas have signals that are far apart and signals that are close together.

[LTA1992]

Yes, it is 7 minutes.

 

That wasn't a question.

 

I highly, highly, highly doubt that you actually reached 60.

 

Well unless you were there, you can't doubt a thing now can you? You really think that a motorman would pass up the chance to run at a speed like that in a car with no cap? And he was old enough to have operated them when they were in service.

 

[TheSubwayStation]

That wasn't a question.

 

Well, it sure sounded like a question from the way you phrased it.

 

Well unless you were there, you can't doubt a thing now can you? You really think that a motorman would pass up the chance to run at a speed like that in a car with no cap? And he was old enough to have operated them when they were in service.

 

This was the R1/R9 run that you were referring to, right?

 

 

 

Do you think that this is 60 MPH?

[DJ MC]

Well, it sure sounded like a question from the way you phrased it.

 

This was the R1/R9 run that you were referring to, right?

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Do you think that this is 60 MPH?

 

 

Could be. I did hear the R1/9 cars could haul ass despite having two 190 horsepower motors. R10 cars made that run in about five minutes according to what other users on Subchat have said when those cars were in regular service.

[TheSubwayStation]

Well, my speed calculations put it at 40 MPH . And the video is about 7 minutes long, the same as the modern equipment. Unless the R1/9s have lost 20 MPH since they were in regular service, they simply were never as fast as people say.

[VWM]

Y'know, if the R44 (or 46, cant remember which one) was tested on the LIRR, i'd frickin love to see that.

[LTA1992]

Could be. I did hear the R1/9 cars could haul ass despite having two 190 horsepower motors. R10 cars made that run in about five minutes according to what other users on Subchat have said when those cars were in regular service.

 

 

The cars were baby weight compared to the cars now so 190hp motors don't make a difference.

 

Well, my speed calculations put it at 40 MPH . And the video is about 7 minutes long, the same as the modern equipment. Unless the R1/9s have lost 20 MPH since they were in regular service, they simply were never as fast as people say.

 

 

Well, I can say this, that train was pushing 30 at 116. As fast as 110 went by, it had to be around the mid to late 50s. So a 60mph speed could have been accomplished right before 103. And mind you, the motormans cab was open so if somebody said, "We just did 60", it's valid. Especially since i was on the first set of cross seats. Second, were you even alive when the R1/R9s were in service? Just wondering.

 

Y'know, if the R44 (or 46, cant remember which one) was tested on the LIRR, i'd frickin love to see that.

 

 

It was the R44. Man I miss them like black people miss MJ.

[TheSubwayStation]

Well, I can say this, that train was pushing 30 at 116. As fast as 110 went by, it had to be around the mid to late 50s. So a 60mph speed could have been accomplished right before 103.

 

But the numbers don't lie. Assuming that the platform at 103 St is 600 feet long, using a stopwatch to determine how many seconds it takes for the train to pass the station, the speed can be calculated as 40 MPH. Did the person who said that it was 60 MPH have a speedometer or something to measure the speed, or were they just guessing?