mark1447 Posted June 12, 2012 Share #1 Posted June 12, 2012 Navigating subway diversions is hard enough, but poorly translated signs in Chinese neighborhoods make getting around even more fraught for non-English speakers, a new report says. The study, conducted by the MTA's Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee, blasted the agency for its infrequent posting of signs in other languages and said that those that are put up are riddled with incorrect translations, awful grammar and confusing sentences. "Finding translated signs is very rare," said the report's author, Shanni Liang, who is fluent in Chinese. "If there is a sign, it's usually mistranslated." Among the errors Liang found: * One sign posted this winter used the Chinese characters meaning "building or living area" instead of "uptown," so a straphanger scribbled a correction over it. * On the Canal Street R platform, a permanent "waiting area" sign translates to "end of the train car." * Riders needing to avoid weeknight overnight shutdowns under the MTA's "Fastrack" program were shown signs that said the canceled service is on "work day nights" instead of weeknights -- failing to consider that some New Yorkers work on weekends. Considering the errors, Liang gave the MTA's signs a grade of "50%." "I think it's embarrassing to find things mistranslated," she told amNewYork during a vist to the Canal Street station in Chinatown. "I think it shows a lack of respect if you don't translate signs right." LinguaLinx, the translation company the MTA is paying $24,000 this year, did not return calls for comment. But the MTA said it stood by the company's work, and dismissed the report's findings. "Something like this is very subjective," said MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz, adding that the agency only received three complaints last year -- two of which were submitted by Liang. "Any time we do get a complaint, we forward it on to the vendor for review and discussion," Ortiz said. Council Member Margaret Chin, whose district includes Chinatown, said she wrote to the MTA last year, asking it to address "poor conditions" at the Canal Street stop. "This reports raises a number of concerns about public transportation in majority Asian neighborhoods," Chin said in an email. "These neighborhoods rely heavily on buses and subways, and we must ensure that the MTA is meeting the service needs of ethnic communities throughout our city." Elizabeth OuYang, president of the New York Organization of Chinese Americans, acknowledged "it's not an easy job" for the MTA to translate signs from English to Chinese, but said "if they're going to do it, they should do it right." "It's an issue of willingness to be inclusive," OuYang said, adding that a bad translation "fuels confusion when it was designed supposedly to eliminate confusion." The report suggested the MTA create its own computer software to make translated signs, which it said would save the agency money over time. Source: http://www.amny.com/...eport-1.3773041 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 12, 2012 Share #2 Posted June 12, 2012 lol... The real issue here is quality... They're spending $24,000 which is nothing for translations, hence why they're getting the quality that they're getting. The doesn't really care about the quality and wants to spend as little money as possible. If they were using true professional certified translators from a respected translation company then they wouldn't have this issue. They're probably receiving either machine translations or translations from translators that aren't qualified and then the report at the end suggested that they buy software to use for translations... Even funnier... Language is constantly changing and evolving. You cannot use a machine to replace something that needs to be done by humans. Machine translations use memory which cannot tell context nor feel the language to render an accurate translation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VWM Posted June 12, 2012 Share #3 Posted June 12, 2012 Even though I don't speak chinese, that is pretty ufcking embarrassing. "Uptown" to "Living Area"? Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overclocked Posted June 12, 2012 Share #4 Posted June 12, 2012 Even better idea is to stop printing them in any languages other than English, simply put if one is unwilling to learn the language of this country, that person would never become a well functioning individual in the society. If anything all the translation does is harming the naturalization process of that said person. To the individuals demanding translation of every piece of paper I have no better advice than to pack up and leave. To stay on the the topic, when I first encountered the (russian) translations they were laughable and misleading, it was much better to translate english ones with the dictionary. They have come a long way nevertheless and now at least are able to give correct information. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacemak3r Posted June 12, 2012 Share #5 Posted June 12, 2012 Even better idea is to stop printing them in any languages other than English, simply put if one is unwilling to learn the language of this country, that person would never become a well functioning individual in the society. If anything all the translation does is harming the naturalization process of that said person. To the individuals demanding translation of every piece of paper I have no better advice than to pack up and leave. To stay on the the topic, when I first encountered the (russian) translations they were laughable and misleading, it was much better to translate english ones with the dictionary. They have come a long way nevertheless and now at least are able to give correct information. Carry on. Can you say the same for tourists? Even in Hong Kong/China, their subways have English announcements and signs I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 12, 2012 Share #6 Posted June 12, 2012 Even better idea is to stop printing them in any languages other than English, simply put if one is unwilling to learn the language of this country, that person would never become a well functioning individual in the society. If anything all the translation does is harming the naturalization process of that said person. To the individuals demanding translation of every piece of paper I have no better advice than to pack up and leave. To stay on the the topic, when I first encountered the (russian) translations they were laughable and misleading, it was much better to translate english ones with the dictionary. They have come a long way nevertheless and now at least are able to give correct information. Carry on. Yeah, but not all translations are for folks who live here. Some of them are for tourists. I mean imagine traveling to another place and having to learn the language of every place that you visited... Now I agree that folks should learn the language of the country that they are in if they plan to live there, but if you're just visiting there then maybe you can try to learn a few words. I mean I ended up in Frankfurt for a short while unexpectedly as I had a connection in Germany from Rome and my German at the time was very limited. Now I can ask some questions and such in German like "Was bedeutet auf Deutsch..."? What does [such and such] mean in German" or other simple stuff, but back then forget it. I just spoke in English and hoped that the Germans I encountered spoke English (many of whom don't) outside of main areas. When I would go up to Montréal, I was the only one out of my friends usually that spoke some French (albeit Parisian French lol) and could read the signs and such and ask questions if need be. Now most of my friends are all multilingual but they're not American born for the most part. On one occasion one of our Brazilian friends who speaks more languages fluently than I do (he speaks 5 fluently and I speak 3 fluently with some knowledge of two others) knew French but other than him and me that was it. The thing is he has lived in Cologne, Germany and Montréal (Canada) which is why he speaks those languages in addition to Brazilian Portuguese, English and Spanish. Going to an international school he knew English and with Brazil surrounded by Spanish speaking countries, Spanish wasn't too hard to pick up for him either, but the average person isn't multilingual except for maybe some Europeans. Can you say the same for tourists? Even in Hong Kong/China, their subways have English announcements and signs I believe. Exactly... The thing is we're promoting NYC as a tourist friendly place and we have tons of Europeans (Italians, Spaniards & Germans esp. and even Scandinavians from time to time I hear) and Asians that come here (Japanese & Chinese, esp.). Then you have the Latin Americans as well. I hear a lot of Brazilians speaking in Portuguese on 5th Avenue too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share #7 Posted June 12, 2012 Even though I don't speak chinese, that is pretty ufcking embarrassing. "Uptown" to "Living Area"? Please. LOL! I found that very funny xD!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interested Rider Posted June 12, 2012 Share #8 Posted June 12, 2012 Signs posted in Chinese? I never saw signs posted in Chinese either outside or inside the 8th Avenue station at the N Line during the winter when the northbound N Line was on the B Line during the week. One Friday I was on the southbound platform and saw about 40 people waiting for a northbound train at about 11: 15 AM. I yelled out in English that there were no trains running and someone must have understood me as soon as I started yelling, the people starting coming over the southbound platform. The signage problem is bad whether it is in Chinese or any language including English it is whether the sign is posted in the first place. I complained about there was no posting of the northbound Q Line running express to Kings Highway on Saturday June 2 and the response that I received was what day did it occur? even though I filed the complaint the same day. The legislator and everyone else should not be talking about signage in any language but the posting of correct signs when work is being done, period, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overclocked Posted June 12, 2012 Share #9 Posted June 12, 2012 Can you say the same for tourists? Even in Hong Kong/China, their subways have English announcements and signs I believe. Yeah, but not all translations are for folks who live here. Some of them are for tourists. I mean imagine traveling to another place and having to learn the language of every place that you visited... Now I agree that folks should learn the language of the country that they are in if they plan to live there, but if you're just visiting there then maybe you can try to learn a few words. I mean I ended up in Frankfurt for a short while unexpectedly as I had a connection in Germany from Rome and my German at the time was very limited. Now I can ask some questions and such in German like "Was bedeutet auf Deutsch..."? What does [such and such] mean in German" or other simple stuff, but back then forget it. I just spoke in English and hoped that the Germans I encountered spoke English (many of whom don't) outside of main areas. When I would go up to Montréal, I was the only one out of my friends usually that spoke some French (albeit Parisian French lol) and could read the signs and such and ask questions if need be. Now most of my friends are all multilingual but they're not American born for the most part. On one occasion one of our Brazilian friends who speaks more languages fluently than I do (he speaks 5 fluently and I speak 3 fluently with some knowledge of two others) knew French but other than him and me that was it. The thing is he has lived in Cologne, Germany and Montréal (Canada) which is why he speaks those languages in addition to Brazilian Portuguese, English and Spanish. Going to an international school he knew English and with Brazil surrounded by Spanish speaking countries, Spanish wasn't too hard to pick up for him either, but the average person isn't multilingual except for maybe some Europeans. Exactly... The thing is we're promoting NYC as a tourist friendly place and we have tons of Europeans (Italians, Spaniards & Germans esp. and even Scandinavians from time to time I hear) and Asians that come here (Japanese & Chinese, esp.). Then you have the Latin Americans as well. I hear a lot of Brazilians speaking in Portuguese on 5th Avenue too. I never said anything against translations for tourists. The problem is that the translations are not aimed at the tourists, they are aimed at the locals. If they were aimed at the tourists then we would and should have German, French translations and so on, and they should be placed in the areas of tourists attractions and not in the ethnic areas. Doing so for the tourists is even financially justifiable as last year the tourists left healthy ~2 billion dollars in the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 12, 2012 Share #10 Posted June 12, 2012 I never said anything against translations for tourists. The problem is that the translations are not aimed at the tourists, they are aimed at the locals. If they were aimed at the tourists then we would and should have German, French translations and so on, and they should be placed in the areas of tourists attractions and not in the ethnic areas. Doing so for the tourists is even financially justifiable as last year the tourists left healthy ~2 billion dollars in the city. I have seen signs in German, French, and so on and they were aimed at the tourists back in the old days on the train. Now I see them here and there. As for the locals the thing is some of them may speak some English but not enough to necessarily understand everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overclocked Posted June 12, 2012 Share #11 Posted June 12, 2012 I have seen signs in German, French, and so on and they were aimed at the tourists back in the old days on the train. Now I see them here and there. As for the locals the thing is some of them may speak some English but not enough to necessarily understand everything. Well I wasn't aware that the translations were done aimed specifically at tourists, you would have to excuse my ignorance regarding that topic. My point is that immigrants would be better off learning the language on their own and not have things translated for them, lets take post-WWI wave of the immigration for example, there were no translations done officially, but as much as I know, they were just fine without them. In the article above, if the translations were not done in the first place, the people complaining wouldn't be confused to begin with. In this case I just do not see the benefits outweigh the cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 12, 2012 Share #12 Posted June 12, 2012 lol... The real issue here is quality... They're spending $24,000 which is nothing for translations, hence why they're getting the quality that they're getting. The doesn't really care about the quality and wants to spend as little money as possible. If they were using true professional certified translators from a respected translation company then they wouldn't have this issue. They're probably receiving either machine translations or translations from translators that aren't qualified and then the report at the end suggested that they buy software to use for translations... Even funnier... Language is constantly changing and evolving. You cannot use a machine to replace something that needs to be done by humans. Machine translations use memory which cannot tell context nor feel the language to render an accurate translation. I dunno. I mean, if you're going to get "living area" instead of "Uptown" (probably has something to do with it being translated as "upstairs" in terms of a living area or something like that), you might as well save yourself the full $24,000 and use Google Translate. Something like "workday nights" I can understand when they said its subjective, but "Uptown" being translated as "building" is just terrible. At least it's not as bad as terrorism being mentioned in a medical paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacemak3r Posted June 13, 2012 Share #13 Posted June 13, 2012 Well I wasn't aware that the translations were done aimed specifically at tourists, you would have to excuse my ignorance regarding that topic. My point is that immigrants would be better off learning the language on their own and not have things translated for them, lets take post-WWI wave of the immigration for example, there were no translations done officially, but as much as I know, they were just fine without them. In the article above, if the translations were not done in the first place, the people complaining wouldn't be confused to begin with. In this case I just do not see the benefits outweigh the cons. I can see where you're trying to go at. But out of experience of the neighborhood, a lot of the immigrants do know where they are going in the subway. Quite frankly I'm sure they've went with their grand-children or their Americanized children showed them the way a couple of times before going by themselves. For example, I've showed my grandma the way to Chinatown from Sheepshead Bay and she can navigate on her own without my now. Though it an area like Chinatown or 8 Avenue or Flushing, it would be nice to have some Chinese language signs for the sake of the community as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted June 13, 2012 Share #14 Posted June 13, 2012 A majority of the Chinese community actually respects English and they have a lot of respect for people that can speak English. My family and many other Asian families I know actually have a lot of respect for English, and the older members always wished they could have learned it. So it doesn't make sense to say that Asians don't want to learn English. It's just in the past and in places today they don't have the ability to learn it. Not everyone is as lucky as we are. English is a world language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted June 13, 2012 Share #15 Posted June 13, 2012 Some are just too old to learn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overclocked Posted June 13, 2012 Share #16 Posted June 13, 2012 I can see where you're trying to go at. But out of experience of the neighborhood, a lot of the immigrants do know where they are going in the subway. Quite frankly I'm sure they've went with their grand-children or their Americanized children showed them the way a couple of times before going by themselves. For example, I've showed my grandma the way to Chinatown from Sheepshead Bay and she can navigate on her own without my now. Though it an area like Chinatown or 8 Avenue or Flushing, it would be nice to have some Chinese language signs for the sake of the community as well. Well being an immigrant myself I am sure I would have a bit different perspective. It is hard for older people to learn the new language and adapt to new environment, especially with the abundance of native media (TV, newspapers, etc). Its even harder to learn the language when you are given easier option, such as instead of translating the page manually, reading the already translated message. Then there is the second problem, the amount of sense the message makes. The incorrect messages such as the ones noted by the article are useless and result in negative outcome. Thus if one would manually translate the English version that person wouldn't be offended or confused. A well made signage costs significantly more as VG8 said, which in turn burdens the taxpayer. Immigration is a compromise, in which one simply can't ripe only the benefits. Some simply forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeystoneRegional Posted June 20, 2012 Share #17 Posted June 20, 2012 Well, immigrants do have to learn at least Basic English for ease of communication if they're planning to live here for long, but really Asians and Europeans, no matter from which country, deserve the same clarity the Spanish posters give. I understand Spanish is commonly said as "the second language of the United States" but really no matter second or ten or fifty, all posters and signage should be clear and understandable. Uptown shouldn't be living area or living district. It should be Uptown. Waiting Area should be Waiting Area, not the end of a train car. I think the should look at another agency with a Chinese Translator that's Chinese, not an agency with perhaps only Americans and Spanish people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
error46146 Posted June 20, 2012 Share #18 Posted June 20, 2012 $24,000 a year for some shitty computer translations; they might as well just run their posters through Google Translate.. ..as usual, more Money Thrown Away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3 Via Av U Posted June 20, 2012 Share #19 Posted June 20, 2012 Man my grandparents are Chinese, once or twice we ended up somewhere else in the Canal street complex thanks to those signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3 Via Av U Posted June 20, 2012 Share #20 Posted June 20, 2012 I can see where you're trying to go at. But out of experience of the neighborhood, a lot of the immigrants do know where they are going in the subway. Quite frankly I'm sure they've went with their grand-children or their Americanized children showed them the way a couple of times before going by themselves. For example, I've showed my grandma the way to Chinatown from Sheepshead Bay and she can navigate on her own without my now. Though it an area like Chinatown or 8 Avenue or Flushing, it would be nice to have some Chinese language signs for the sake of the community as well. I'm Chinese and I frequently go on train trips with my grandparents. They know the way from Neck Road to Canal Street, but I am the leader during G.O.s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted June 20, 2012 Share #21 Posted June 20, 2012 I'm Chinese and I frequently go on train trips with my grandparents. They know the way from Neck Road to Canal Street, but I am the leader during G.O.s. Do you speak Chinese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.