28 replies to this topic

[mark1447]

Amtrak concourse at Penn Station in New York. (Scott Beale / flickr)





NY MTA Chief Says Railroads Need To Work Together To Overcome Maxed-Out Hudson River Crossings

New York Metropolitan Transportation Authority Chairman Joe Lhota told a conference of transportation professionals that the only hope for moving more people under the Hudson River between Manhattan and New Jersey is for the area’s commuter railroads to set aside their traditional enmity and work better together.

His remarks came after a presentation showing rapid growth in New Jersey’s commuter population has maxed out rush hour crossings — both transit and vehicular — and that relief in the form of a proposed Gateway Rail Tunnel won’t arrive until 2025. If it arrives.

Which raised the question: what to do in the meantime?

Lhota tossed out three ideas, each aimed at boosting capacity at Penn Station in Manhattan, the hemisphere’s busiest railroad station and a terminal for New Jersey Transit trains.

He said the station’s 21 platforms should all be made to accommodate 10-car trains, which would mean lengthening some of them. He also said that the railroads using the station—Amtrak, New Jersey Transit and Long Island Rail Road—should do a better job of sharing platform and tunnel space.

Each railroad currently controls a third of the platforms, which sometimes leads to one railroad having too many trains and not enough platforms at the same time another railroad has empty platforms. The railroads also vie with each other for access to tunnels during peak periods. Lhota said capacity would be boosted if dispatchers in the station’s control room could send any train to any platform, and through any tunnel, as they saw fit.

Lhota’s third suggestion was the most ambitious. He said the three railroads—plus the MTA’s Metro-North line, which connects Manhattan to Connecticut and several downstate New York counties—should use each other’s tracks. In other words, trains should flow throughout the region in a way that sends them beyond their historic territory. For example, a train from Long Island could arrive in Penn Station and, instead of sitting idly until its scheduled return trip, move on to New Jersey. That way, trains would spend less time tying up platforms, boosting the station’s capacity.

The practice is called “through-running.” It happens already when NJ Transit trains carry football fans on game day from New Haven, Connecticut, through Penn Station to Secaucus, where passengers transfer to a shuttle that takes them to MetLife Stadium in the Meadowlands.

http://transportatio...iver-crossings/

[Joel Up Front]

I think the results of NY and NJ working together can best be summarized by the giant cluster---- known as the Port Authority.

[Shortline Bus]

Even if you extend the LIRR(only ones that could make sense are the shorter distances routes such as Pt. Washington or Long Beach for instance)where in NJ could you terminate at? Newark-Penn? Seacucus?

Ditto for NJ Transit trains? Jamaica, Woodside?

When the ESA access to Grand Central, for the LIRR opens at the end of the decade that will be a huge help in congestion/track issues at Penn station.

[Tokkemon]

I love his third suggestion!

[mark1447]

Even if you extend the LIRR(only ones that could make sense are the shorter distances routes such as Pt. Washington or Long Beach for instance)where in NJ could you terminate at? Newark-Penn? Seacucus?

Ditto for NJ Transit trains? Jamaica, Woodside?

When the ESA access to Grand Central, for the LIRR opens at the end of the decade that will be a huge help in congestion/track issues at Penn station.

Thanks for fixing the title.

I think you can send some LIRR train to Newark Penn and lay some trains there, even EWR, there is about 5 to 7 tracks south of Newark Penn, you can keep like 4 active and the others for turn around. Another being Newark/Broad St. Of course, this is up to the state of New Jersey. The only down side, is requiring 3rd Rail to extended passed NY Penn.

For NJT, some could lay up at Sunnyside while very light can continue to New Rochelle or even turn around some trains in the Bronx. Besides Woodside or even Jamaica. But again, Catenary will be required passed Sunnyside.

[Fan Railer]

Some good ideas for short term relief, finally. NJT and MNR are the only two railroads that it would be efficient to utilize through running though, considering LIRR's diesel fleet is unable to operate through to NJ due to the lack of third rail power in the hudson tunnels. And the MNR would only be able to operate M8's through to NJ. Thus, NJT would have to shoulder most of the through-running load, if that part of the plan were ever to be implemented on a full scale basis.

[lilbluefoxie]

It's an ambitious idea but it will be difficult to implement because each railroad has different little things that aren't compatible with the other. Sending LIRR trains to Jersey wont work since that tunnel has no third rail. Sending trains from Jersey to Long Island wont work becasue the LIRR lacks cantinery wire past the sunnyside yard area. Metro North genesis trains cant use LIRR tracks because of the third rail incompatibilities.

The dispatchers working together in a more unified way, that i could see working tho

[trainfan22]

There is 3rd rail in the Hudson River tunnels, they put 3rd rail in there so in the event a disabled Amtrak or NJT train was in the tunnel they could use a LIRR to rescue people and take em to NYP.

In this video (Not mine) you can see the 3rd rail on the right hand side of the train in the Hudson Tubes.

[VWM]

Dat third proposal. That would be utterly foamtastic.

[Truckie]

The question of the day is how far out from Penn Station are the crews qualified on? Yes, NJT trains run from New Haven to Secaucus but, Metro North crews operate the trains from New Haven to Penn Station, then NJT crews take it the rest of the way.

NJT crews are not qualified to operate beyond Penn Station going east and MNR crews are not qualified to run beyond Penn going west.