239 replies to this topic

[CDTA]

As a regular CPW rider, I personally think that CPW is undeserved. I also believe that 6TPH is unacceptable for this route. (Not to mention Fulton)

1. Well the and the make more than 6TPH. BUT, a almost ALWAYS comes right after a making it useless unless you just missed the . (Which has benefited me a few times, but nevertheless)
I believe either the or should be rescheduled, so that they don't come relatively close to each other.
1A. The doesn't run on weekends, so we're stuck with only the , which comes less than every ten minutes. This is straight out unacceptable, which is why another possible solution, would to have the run on weekends. (This is assuming the scheduling problem is fixed)
1B. Extend the . Now in terms of the weekend extension, I do think QBL would be best. IF that wasn't do-able for some reason, then the should be extended to 145th to replace weekend service in Manhattan.
2. Make the Cranberry St Tubes four tracked. Now while I understand how difficult this would be, since they are building the Fulton St Transit Center now, this would definitely be the best time to build it. This way, the could have an increased TPH, while the is unaffected. And unlike option 1, this would also benefit Fulton riders.
Ways this could work;
2A. Have 8th Ave be 6th tracked for a short section of track after Canal St, then after the diverges, it would be four tracked. As I said, if this is going to be done, it needs to be done NOW, because we can't tear up lower Manhattan twice. It would then in Brooklyn use the tracks at Jay St, and the abandoned tracks at Hoyt.
2B. Extend the tracks to connect with the again at Fulton. It would then run four tracked.(See 2A) Now I am aware that this would make Chambers St an express only stop, and that the couldn't terminate there. But this would provide extra service to WTC. As for the it could run as the Culver Exp. Just saying. Yet again, needs to be done NOW.
3. Send the Via Rutgers. This seems like the easiest solution. Now this would make Chambers/Fulton/High St all only stops, but all the switches exist for this idea, and the could have an extra TPH, while yet again not effecting any lines around it, and it would give 2nd Ave, two trains again.

I would personally go with idea 3, (And 1 if possible), what do you guys think?

P.S. In idea 3, it would benefit Fulton aswell.

[TheSubwayStation]

I personally like 1. and 1A. The fact is, it's not feasible to build new tunnels right now, as costs would be REALLY high. I've thought about sending the via Rutgers before, but I don't think it's going to help. It'll have to merge with the and trains, which will prevent much of any increase in TPH.

If I had my fantasy, I'd build a new river tube from the tracks at World Trade Center to the Transit Museum tracks, where trains can reach the Fulton line and trains can reach the Culver line. But that's not happening anytime soon...

[CDTA]

I personally like 1. and 1A. The fact is, it's not feasible to build new tunnels right now, as costs would be REALLY high. I've thought about sending the via Rutgers before, but I don't think it's going to help. It'll have to merge with the and trains, which will prevent much of any increase in TPH.

If I had my fantasy, I'd build a new river tube from the tracks at World Trade Center to the Transit Museum tracks, where trains can reach the Fulton line and trains can reach the Culver line. But that's not happening anytime soon...

Damn I forgot about the in #3..... Theoretically, it could be increased but only by 1 or 2 TPH, and everything would have to come on time....

[TheSubwayStation]

Damn I forgot about the in #3..... Theoretically, it could be increased but only by 1 or 2 TPH, and everything would have to come on time....

And, isn't the just as frequent than the , if not more?

[CDTA]

Allegedly (what I was basing this on) the has 12TPH V.S. the which has 19TPH

[TwoTimer]

*Sigh*
I will explain to you the phenomena of the and . The often arrives early at 145, and therefore has to wait for the to go in front of it, and follows immeidately behind. The usually is on time at this point. If it is slightly late, 59 Master tower will still hold the so that trains come down in the correct order. This is rush hour. Off-peak, as soon as the crosses, they will try and push the out, because a can't enter 145 downstairs as long as the switch is set for the to cross over. This is what occurs on weekdays.

On weekends, yes CPW is packed (Fulton can use a lower headway too). I do suspect in the service enhancements the will have its headway lowered back to 8 mins. Combine this with full-length trains, and this will solve all issues there. No need for a or even worse an . It is clear the isn't as full when it runs the 600' train then when it runs the 480' off summers. When the new train order comes in, I predict the will become a permanent 600' train to accomodate increasing ridership.

On a side note, everyone says extend here, extend there, do any of you realize the is OPTO with only 4 cars on weekend? One has to acknowledge this and offer whether now its running full length trains with conductors (a huge extra expense). For the to Essex people, its whether you want OPTO to Essex or full length trains as well.

No, no, no on all 4 tracked tubes. Even if money grew on trees, fell off when ripe and dried on grass, still no. A whole post but you never mentioned what kind of headway was being talked about in each case. Oh, and no via Rutgers. Never, never, never and it doesnt' even address anything having to do with Fulton or CPW. Yes, I'm LOL.

Edited by TwoTimer, 17 July 2012 - 11:31 AM.

[Kamen Rider]

the B, in thoery, has always been a part time line.

at first it was rush hours only betwen 168 and 34th for 27 years.

Post Chrystie Street and prior to leaving the West end in 2001, it spent just as much time not going up CPW (or going into Manhattan in the first place) as it did actually using the line, This is why the B and D switched Brooklyn lines. West end got a full time D line instead of the shuttles to 36th street at night, Broadway got a full time express in the Q and the B could go to bed at night and take the weekend off.

It's all about the logicstics of running the system. you can't just randmonly add trains when ever you feel like it. more crews need to work, and the trains will need more maitnce more often. An A train can rack up 300 miles in a single day, that would mean more time on the road means it's cycle would end sooner.

[Shortline Bus]

Correction. The "B" did run between 168th and Coney Island full route via West End Weekdays (also for on weekends for a year in 2000-'01)for much of the 20-plus years(starting in 1983)of the Manhattan Bridge project. Between 1988-2001 when the 6th Ave side of the bridge was open the entire time, the did go full route.

And CDTA stop with the plan to re-route the on weekends to the CPW. Only option here is 1)Increase ©service likely to happen in upcoming service upgrades. 2)Run the on weekends.

the B, in thoery, has always been a part time line.

at first it was rush hours only betwen 168 and 34th for 27 years.

Post Chrystie Street and prior to leaving the West end in 2001, it spent just as much time not going up CPW (or going into Manhattan in the first place) as it did actually using the line, This is why the B and D switched Brooklyn lines. West end got a full time D line instead of the shuttles to 36th street at night, Broadway got a full time express in the Q and the B could go to bed at night and take the weekend off.

It's all about the logicstics of running the system. you can't just randmonly add trains when ever you feel like it. more crews need to work, and the trains will need more maitnce more often. An A train can rack up 300 miles in a single day, that would mean more time on the road means it's cycle would end sooner.

[Kamen Rider]

weekdays during the rush hours yes, off hours, or any time the Q wasn't running but the B was, it was destined for what's now the 63rd street line

[Shortline Bus]

weekdays during the rush hours yes, off hours, or any time the Q wasn't running but the B was, it was destined for what's now the 63rd street line

Hey Kamen I did not know you had a 2nd life before 1988? Thought you were born in 1988 lol.
Again correction. For couple of years after the 1st leg of 63rd opened, the Orange ran as a shuttle between 21st-Queensbridge and 2nd Ave weekday evenings. The ran all day weekdays until around Midnight between 168th and Coney Island. Also weekends(6am-Midnight) in 2000-'01 when the 63rd St ran. That a fact.
Forgot year but later the ran to 21st-Queensbridge weekday evenings and weekends 6am-Midnight.
Honestly, there was so many service changes during the Manhattan Bridge rebulid/63rd Tunnel extension,
during that era hard to keep up lol.

[GojiMet86]

Hey Kamen I did not know you had a 2nd life before 1988? Thought you were born in 1988 lol.
Again correction. For couple of years after the 1st leg of 63rd opened, the Orange ran as a shuttle between 21st-Queensbridge and 2nd Ave weekday evenings. The ran all day weekdays until around Midnight between 168th and Coney Island. Also weekends(6am-Midnight) in 2000-'01 when the 63rd St ran. That a fact.
Forgot year but later the ran to 21st-Queensbridge weekday evenings and weekends 6am-Midnight.
Honestly, there was so many service changes during the Manhattan Bridge rebulid/63rd Tunnel extension,
during that era hard to keep up lol.

That ran for a while in like a million forms. You had the that ran from Queensbridge to B'way-Lafeyette, the that ran from Queensbridge to 34th Street via Broadway (and that ran to 57th Street late nights), and that Grand Street . The Broadway I saw once, a 10-car R32 consist. Then I remember reading in Wikipedia the first that you're talking about, that ran all the way to 2nd Avenue.

[Threxx]

As a regular CPW rider, I personally think that CPW is undeserved. I also believe that 6TPH is unacceptable for this route. (Not to mention Fulton)

1. Well the and the make more than 6TPH. BUT, a almost ALWAYS comes right after a making it useless unless you just missed the . (Which has benefited me a few times, but nevertheless)
I believe either the or should be rescheduled, so that they don't come relatively close to each other.
1A. The doesn't run on weekends, so we're stuck with only the , which comes less than every ten minutes. This is straight out unacceptable, which is why another possible solution, would to have the run on weekends. (This is assuming the scheduling problem is fixed)
1B. Extend the . Now in terms of the weekend extension, I do think QBL would be best. IF that wasn't do-able for some reason, then the should be extended to 145th to replace weekend service in Manhattan.
2. Make the Cranberry St Tubes four tracked. Now while I understand how difficult this would be, since they are building the Fulton St Transit Center now, this would definitely be the best time to build it. This way, the could have an increased TPH, while the is unaffected. And unlike option 1, this would also benefit Fulton riders.
Ways this could work;
2A. Have 8th Ave be 6th tracked for a short section of track after Canal St, then after the diverges, it would be four tracked. As I said, if this is going to be done, it needs to be done NOW, because we can't tear up lower Manhattan twice. It would then in Brooklyn use the tracks at Jay St, and the abandoned tracks at Hoyt.
2B. Extend the tracks to connect with the again at Fulton. It would then run four tracked.(See 2A) Now I am aware that this would make Chambers St an express only stop, and that the couldn't terminate there. But this would provide extra service to WTC. As for the it could run as the Culver Exp. Just saying. Yet again, needs to be done NOW.
3. Send the Via Rutgers. This seems like the easiest solution. Now this would make Chambers/Fulton/High St all only stops, but all the switches exist for this idea, and the could have an extra TPH, while yet again not effecting any lines around it, and it would give 2nd Ave, two trains again.

I would personally go with idea 3, (And 1 if possible), what do you guys think?

P.S. In idea 3, it would benefit Fulton aswell.

The B dosen't need to run on weekends, and the C can't go via Rutgers.

This can happen though:

Restore the K full time, have it also be 6 TPH, and this will supplement CPW while not clogging Cranberry.

[Shortline Bus]

The B dosen't need to run on weekends, and the C can't go via Rutgers.

This can happen though:

Restore the K full time, have it also be 6 TPH, and this will supplement CPW while not clogging Cranberry.

And what happens to the threxx? Would not clog the 8th/CPW local tracks? I assume you mean the K/AA line that ran from the 1960's-1988 between WTC and 168th right?

[Kamen Rider]

Shortline...

A. I really don't think we're on the same page and

B. STOP BEING SUCH A PEST!

I make an generlization and you've got to go all Sheldon Cooper on my @$$.

I don't need you emailing me over something this stupid just cause you've got to prove a point.

1972 map, for example says right at the top the B was going to 168th RUSH HOURS ONLY. most of the time it was the AA proving local serivce to 168

Later on in 1997 for example, justbefore the swap with the C, by 8PM, the B was off the CPW. if that's 6 to 8 5 days a week, that's 10 hours a day it didn't, time 5 plus add on 48 for the weekend, that's 98 hours a week. there are only 168 hours in a week, so that works out to more time NOT on the CPW than on it.

I don't mind a good back and forth, but PMing me just to drive home the "I'm right, you're wrong" just pisses me off.

and yea, I was born in 1988; but I'm also a genius and I can get away with it.

[Threxx]

And what happens to the threxx? Would not clog the 8th/CPW local tracks? I assume you mean the K/AA line that ran from the 1960's-1988 between WTC and 168th right?

Yes I do, and it wouldn't. The is 12 TPH, plus another 12 is 24. The is 10 TPH, plus 12 is 22. The problem here is frequency, isn't it?

[Shortline Bus]

geez relax. You know i am a teacher(at least last 4 years) lol and sometimes forget i am on the forums. I am passionate and love to prove i am right that true. FYI. I had to google Sheldon Cooper since i hardly watch Big Bang Theory. No joke while i have Aspengers my nickname in middle school and high school was Mr. Spock. Keep that in mind Kamen.

Shortline...

A. I really don't think we're on the same page and

B. STOP BEING SUCH A PEST!

I make an generlization and you've got to go all Sheldon Cooper on my @$$.

I don't need you emailing me over something this stupid just cause you've got to prove a point.

1972 map, for example says right at the top the B was going to 168th RUSH HOURS ONLY. most of the time it was the AA proving local serivce to 168

Later on in 1997 for example, justbefore the swap with the C, by 8PM, the B was off the CPW. if that's 6 to 8 5 days a week, that's 10 hours a day it didn't, time 5 plus add on 48 for the weekend, that's 98 hours a week. there are only 168 hours in a week, so that works out to more time NOT on the CPW than on it.

I don't mind a good back and forth, but PMing me just to drive home the "I'm right, you're wrong" just pisses me off.

and yea, I was born in 1988; but I'm also a genius and I can get away with it.

Yes I do, and it wouldn't. The is 12 TPH, plus another 12 is 24. The is 10 TPH, plus 12 is 22. The problem here is frequency, isn't it?

Instead of that why not just suggest some run short trip service on weekends between WTC and 168 in addition to regular Brooklyn service? Calling it the is flat out too confusing.

[RollOverMyHead]

The nowdays only requires 18 trainsets, so there are not enough cars to increase the frequency of local service along the Central Park West Line. The may or not become a permanent 10-car train of 60 footers once it gets or does not get R179s in the future.

Far we know the only thing I can say is take all the 50 R42s from ENY and placed them on 207th Street Yard for the resulting in the become exclusively R160s. Make all the 140 trainsets of R32s 10 cars and that way the can require 19 trains, enough to handling the extra load. But that's just my opinion because there's not enough R160s to fill the entire line due to the needed more cars for its heavily increase ridership and not enough R46s to increase more service within ten minutes. There are many other trains that are just as infrequent as another that arrives only once every ten-fifteen minutes on daily basis and so on.

Plus increasing more local service on the would only delay service due to both of them sharing track between Canal Street and Hoyt-Schermerhorn Streets. And for the to return would only delay service at World Trade Center. The subway system is fine as it is.

Edited by RollOverMyHead, 17 July 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[Shortline Bus]

The issue of extra crowds on the is most needed in Manhattan along the CPW stations between 125th-72nd and along Fulton between Hoyt and Nostrand. Honestly the few times on weekends i riden the Fulton before and after June 2010 (usually going to JFK for flights)stations such as Van Sicklen and Liberty/Penn Aves have very light ridership.

While a slight increase in weekend service would help a better use of the monies from the assumed service upgrade soon coming is extending hours at least a hour to Midnight. The between 11pm-1230am is really crushloaded in Manhattan and Downtown Brooklyn most night.

[TheSubwayStation]

One possibility (Just an idea that I'll throw out there) would be to run the via CPW local on the weekends.

[Shortline Bus]

One possibility (Just an idea that I'll throw out there) would be to run the via CPW local on the weekends.

No way. The only time a CPW local should run local( Not endorsing it) other than GO's is overnights. This is to "share' the load with the similar to the West Side and East Side overnight services. Better idea than running the local weekends is having the run Saturdays/Sundays.