MHV9218 Posted July 25, 2012 Share #1 Posted July 25, 2012 Yeah, you read that right. I can't even believe it myself. Here's the story from the Wall St Journal: By LAURA KUSISTO About a month ago, Philip Bjerknes, an advertising executive who has lived in Brooklyn for six years, made a surprising discovery: He could get an apartment in Alphabet City for less than he was paying in Williamsburg. "I lived [in Williamsburg] for the postindustrial charm or the affordability and neither of those really exist anymore," said Mr. Bjerknes, 27 years old. "I love Brooklyn. It's adorable, with great places to eat, but they also have that in Manhattan." Indeed, Mr. Bjerknes in 2006 joined the torrent of young professionals who have fled to Brooklyn in search of affordability and helped transform neighborhoods like Park Slope, Cobble Hill and much of Williamsburg into pleasant, restaurant-filled enclaves. Now, prices in those neighborhoods often have risen so much that some in Brooklyn are making the reverse move to Manhattan. With the mean rent for a studio in Williamsburg topping $2,700, apartment hunters are likely to find cheaper places in Greenwich Village, where mean studio rents for non-doorman buildings are just more than $2,500 a month, according to June figures from MNS, a real-estate company. That's true even though Manhattan apartments tend to be more cramped than those in Brooklyn. And rents in Brooklyn are rising faster than their Manhattan counterparts, meaning the pricing gap in many top neighborhoods is likely to become even more marked. Rents for studios in Manhattan were up almost 8% on a mean basis in June from the same month a year earlier, compared with a 10.4% jump in Brooklyn. One-bedrooms also rose by less than 5% in Manhattan in the same period, while rising nearly 10% in Brooklyn. Mr. Bjerknes recently landed a one-bedroom apartment near his work at Avenue B and 11th Street for less than $2,400 a month. His broker, John Brandon of Citi Habitats—who works primarily in the East Village but lives in the Williamsburg area—said he began noticing an increase in inquiries from Brooklynites wanting to move to Manhattan around the start of the year. "Rents are going up so much in Williamsburg," he said "If you want to live in Manhattan, it's kind of six of one, half a dozen of another" compared with Brooklyn, Mr. Brandon said. While many once-dedicated Manhattanites crossed the bridge to Brooklyn reluctantly, some people now say they make the reverse move with some trepidation. Kate Artibee, a 33-year-old Pilates studio owner, and her husband, Nick Smallwood, moved to the Upper East Side in late 2009 after she had lived in Williamsburg and then Park Slope for 13 years and was feeling priced out. "We could afford the tiniest studio you've ever seen in Park Slope, or move to the Upper East Side and live in a brownstone," Ms. Artibee said. She hesitated when asked whether she considered her new neighborhood "cool." But she said she and her husband have grown to love the area around their apartment on 87th Street between York and East End avenues, which "has the charm that you would want in Brooklyn that is quickly disappearing." Indeed, the Upper East Side—long a denizen of society matrons and recent college graduates—has seen an influx of trendy establishments, including gastro pub Jones Wood Foundry; a taco place, Cascabel Taqueria; City Swiggers, a craft-beer store; and the newest outpost of Pony Bar, a craft-beer bar. "It's exploding with young people and tattoos," said Ms. Artibee. The other day, she and her husband saw something they never expected on 87th Street. "These hipsters were moving in—you could tell they were hipsters because I used to be one too, so they stand out—and they were moving a mounted moose head into their apartment," she said. Josh Wolinsky, a 28-year-old restaurant server and aspiring author, is one such young person who has moved—in his case to the Upper East Side a few years ago from Sunset Park, Brooklyn. "When it came to living in a nice neighborhood, the Upper East Side was actually cheap er," said Mr. Wolinsky, who also previously rented an apartment in Astoria, Queens. He and a roommate pay $1,900 a month for a two-bedroom apartment in a fifth-floor walk-up. Even still, he said he hopes he won't be a long-term Upper East Sider. "I'd rather be living in a borough," he said, dismissing Manhattan's borough status. To be sure, as Brooklyn rents rise, only a lucky handful can afford to move back to Manhattan. Others are more likely to push deeper into southern Brooklyn—where mean studio rents in Bay Ridge, for example, remain just $1,200 a month. Other people may start looking to Queens or the Bronx. Indeed, it raises broader concerns about affordability in the city—where Brooklyn neighborhoods that once provided a release valve for Manhattan pricing continued to become more expensive even through much of the downturn. In many Brooklyn neighborhoods, "the rent just keeps going up and up, even in the sluggish economy, even in the slight downturn in the housing market," according to Jonathan Bowles, director of the Center for an Urban Future. "For a lot of people that turned to Brooklyn in part because it was a little of a bargain, I think they're being forced to look elsewhere," he said. —Jessica Firger contributed to this article. That's the crazy graphic. I don't even understand this city any more, I don't get how that many people can afford that kind of rent, I don't get any of it. I was just walking around McCarren Park today so this hits pretty close. Unbelievable stuff and unbelievable prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted July 25, 2012 Share #2 Posted July 25, 2012 That story proves why i left the boros as a whole 5 years ago to the Hudson Valley. Ditto for lifelong nyc residents moving to the poconos, Southern NJ and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 25, 2012 Share #3 Posted July 25, 2012 Yeah, funny that you posted this because I was reading the Wall Street Journal while eating lunch at one of my spots in Grand Central and I was so engrossed in this article that I just blew off the waiter for a while. I think it's insane that parts of Brooklyn are now more expensive than Manhattan, and what also irked me is these damn hipsters trying to ruin neighborhoods like Bay Ridge... Whatever they do just don't come to Riverdale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted July 25, 2012 Share #4 Posted July 25, 2012 No wonder there is such a craze to move down south. I'm in a predominantly African American area and all I hear about is cheaper prices in (insert state here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astoria Line Posted July 25, 2012 Share #5 Posted July 25, 2012 Alphabet City and East Village have some crap apartments that is why the are cheap. I lived in both neighborhoods (my 1st apartment was literally in between both) and LES for a combined total of 14 years. They are building more condos but those are crazy expensive.. You would think it would be cheaper in Brooklyn too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted July 25, 2012 Share #6 Posted July 25, 2012 No wonder there is such a craze to move down south. I'm in a predominantly African American area and all I hear about is cheaper prices in (insert state here). And where in the Bronx is that JW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted July 25, 2012 Share #7 Posted July 25, 2012 Baychester not far from Co-op City. I have to say the area is filling up with West Indians as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share #8 Posted July 25, 2012 That story proves why i left the boros as a whole 5 years ago to the Hudson Valley. Ditto for lifelong nyc residents moving to the poconos, Southern NJ and beyond. It's hard to blame you, unless you hit the jackpot and get something rent-stabilized or you're in a place that you got for cheap back before gentrification, it's impossible to get cheap rent unless you start going pretty far out. And a lot of people just don't wanna do that. Yeah, funny that you posted this because I was reading the Wall Street Journal while eating lunch at one of my spots in Grand Central and I was so engrossed in this article that I just blew off the waiter for a while. I think it's insane that parts of Brooklyn are now more expensive than Manhattan, and what also irked me is these damn hipsters trying to ruin neighborhoods like Bay Ridge... Whatever they do just don't come to Riverdale! It's a fascinating story isn't it? I rarely read the Journal but this one really caught my eye, crazy where everybody goes in this city. No wonder there is such a craze to move down south. I'm in a predominantly African American area and all I hear about is cheaper prices in (insert state here). Completely. All my friends in Flatbush and Jamaica, the constant debate is whether or not to just pack up shop and move south. Nobody I know has left yet and I know the last thing I'd do is move south, but it's an option a lot of people are taking. Alphabet City and East Village have some crap apartments that is why the are cheap. I lived in both neighborhoods (my 1st apartment was literally in between both) and LES for a combined total of 14 years. They are building more condos but those are crazy expensive.. You would think it would be cheaper in Brooklyn too.... That's what I was thinking too, Alphabet City apartments aren't always the nicest and Avenue C/D after about 12am still aren't the best places for some yuppie family to be walking around. From Astoria to the UES though? That's just baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BZGuy Posted July 26, 2012 Share #9 Posted July 26, 2012 That story proves why i left the boros as a whole 5 years ago to the Hudson Valley. Ditto for lifelong nyc residents moving to the poconos, Southern NJ and beyond. I'm looking at moving to Orange or Sullivan county myself. The city ain't all it's cracked up to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted July 26, 2012 Share #10 Posted July 26, 2012 you can get Great Neck for like around 2000 a month and have a 1-2bedroom, Lynbrook goes for about 1800 a month for a 1br, same for Rockville Centre. Long Beach NY is around 1900 or so, all are walkable cities with plenty of shops and good train and bus service. I am sure theres nice places like that in Westchester too however I am honestly not that familiar with Westchester. I guess theres people out that that gotta be in the city, right in the middle of everything and they the ones that also complain about high rent but refuse to consider the alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 26, 2012 Share #11 Posted July 26, 2012 you can get Great Neck for like around 2000 a month and have a 1-2bedroom, Lynbrook goes for about 1800 a month for a 1br, same for Rockville Centre. Long Beach NY is around 1900 or so, all are walkable cities with plenty of shops and good train and bus service. I am sure theres nice places like that in Westchester too however I am honestly not that familiar with Westchester. I guess theres people out that that gotta be in the city, right in the middle of everything and they the ones that also complain about high rent but refuse to consider the alternatives. What I don't understand is where in the hell are these people working to afford these insane rents? I mean paying $2,750 for a studio??? They could get a friggin' mortgage with that rent and then some. All I keep hearing is that there's a recession and there are no jobs, so where are these folks getting this money from?? I mean I consider myself to be doing okay here in Riverdale, but IMO anything over $1,400 a month in rent IMO is just too much to pay for rent per person. The average person after rent still has to pay for food, student loans, utilities and other stuff, oh and you're supposed to save some money too for investment, retirement and emergencies. If you're paying $2,750 a month in rent one would be making $110,000 a year or $55,000 each for a couple, which still is high considering the recession and lack of jobs. I believe the average salary in NYC is around $45k to 50k so it just doesn't add up to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 26, 2012 Share #12 Posted July 26, 2012 Living in this borough, this doesn't surprise me, and I saw this coming; albeit not so soon...... There are infact places in Brooklyn that have skyrocketed to the point where it's more expensive to live in than places in manhattan; and I'm not only talking about the chinatown's or the east harlem's of the world either..... Long term, I do not see myself still living in East Flatbush, and this area pales in comparison to the park slope's, clinton hill's, cobble hill's, brooklyn heights', etc of the world....... Too many neighborhoods in NW Brooklyn have become prime real estate..... Places in the more southern half of the borough, although not near are "trendy" are rising in value & price too.... How many of you Brooklynites (f**k it, or anyone else living in the other 3 outerboroughs) have seen those little papers that read something to the effect of: "My name is ____________ (usually some arab), and I would like to buy your house... CASH $$$$$$... Please call me at _________ if interested. Thank You" They aren't looking to buy houses a] for themselves & b] because they look nice....... They are tryna turn a goddamn profit !!!!! Baychester not far from Co-op City. I have to say the area is filling up with West Indians as well. There's been west indians in baychester though...... You often hear about the ones in Wakefield more b/c well, that area has a negative stigma attached to it..... But yeah, funny how you hear so many ppl. in NYC wanting to move to FL..... I say let them have at it..... also funny how you had long islanders moving out to north carolina, found that things aren't that much different/cheaper, and now their asses have moved back to NY....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted July 26, 2012 Share #13 Posted July 26, 2012 Could of sworn, Manhattan was worst with rents, especially since Harlem and other spots is being taken over by the $$$$ folks. Low incomers are spreading to the South/North (Wakefield/Williamsbridge, etc) Bronx, Eastern Queens/Brooklyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share #14 Posted July 26, 2012 That's what I thought myself, I still think of Williamsburg as the "hipster retreat" from the high rents, crazy to think they're moving TO Manhattan for lower rents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted July 26, 2012 Share #15 Posted July 26, 2012 I'm looking at moving to Orange or Sullivan county myself. The city ain't all it's cracked up to be. Hey when i stayed (i dont consider it "living" lol) with roommates in Park Slope/Windsor Terrace area after my parents left (I was at 18th Street Off PPW) not exactly a great time. with a Grandmom who leased rooms in her 3-floor 8-bedroom house. I still pay $500 a month just for a damn room and had to share bathroom/kitchen. Not to mention drama i.e argument on when someone is in a shower too long in morning, etc. For what i am paying $700 a month in town of Poughkeepsie I got a small 1-bedroom apartment lol. And best of all no roommates . Thus no wonder Metro North trains are busy all hours of days for travel to/from NYC. Thus i have no regrets moving to the Hudson Valley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngblaze Posted July 26, 2012 Share #16 Posted July 26, 2012 What I don't understand is where in the hell are these people working to afford these insane rents? I mean paying $2,750 for a studio??? They could get a friggin' mortgage with that rent and then some. All I keep hearing is that there's a recession and there are no jobs, so where are these folks getting this money from?? I mean I consider myself to be doing okay here in Riverdale, but IMO anything over $1,400 a month in rent IMO is just too much to pay for rent per person. The average person after rent still has to pay for food, student loans, utilities and other stuff, oh and you're supposed to save some money too for investment, retirement and emergencies. If you're paying $2,750 a month in rent one would be making $110,000 a year or $55,000 each for a couple, which still is high considering the recession and lack of jobs. I believe the average salary in NYC is around $45k to 50k so it just doesn't add up to me. That's what I'm saying. If I'm gonna pay $2,750 a month there better be more than 2 bathrooms and 2,000+ sq. ft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 26, 2012 Share #17 Posted July 26, 2012 That's what I'm saying. If I'm gonna pay $2,750 a month there better be more than 2 bathrooms and 2,000+ sq. ft. You see that's why I think that paying more than $1,400.00 a month is just too much because I have an issue paying someone else's mortgage. My first apartment when I lived in Italy was in a affluent area and the apartment was gutted and redone by the owners, so it was pretty much in mint condition. I paid 1,200.00€ (~$1,600.00) a month for a one bedroom, but a high end place, plus I had to pay for electric, gas and water, which was roughly about maybe 200.00€ (~268.00) a month and I was a college student at the time, but that was different because I wasn't really on my own yet so I just took some of my own monies and paid. Now though I would not go throwing money away in rent. I mean at $2,700.00 a month I just cringe at how much money that could be in the bank collecting interest. That's more than double what i currently pay for my place and I got a really good deal. A nice quiet apartment with a walk in closet another closet and a balcony... More than enough space for myself, close to the express buses and I have plenty of money left over to save, invest, pay off student loans and still go to the city and have a nice time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngblaze Posted July 26, 2012 Share #18 Posted July 26, 2012 You see that's why I think that paying more than $1,400.00 a month is just too much because I have an issue paying someone else's mortgage. My first apartment when I lived in Italy was in a affluent area and the apartment was gutted and redone by the owners, so it was pretty much in mint condition. I paid 1,200.00€ (~$1,600.00) a month for a one bedroom, but a high end place, plus I had to pay for electric, gas and water, which was roughly about maybe 200.00€ (~268.00) a month and I was a college student at the time, but that was different because I wasn't really on my own yet so I just took some of my own monies and paid. Now though I would not go throwing money away in rent. I mean at $2,700.00 a month I just cringe at how much money that could be in the bank collecting interest. That's more than double what i currently pay for my place and I got a really good deal. A nice quiet apartment with a walk in closet another closet and a balcony... More than enough space for myself, close to the express buses and I have plenty of money left over to save, invest, pay off student loans and still go to the city and have a nice time. I'm actually looking at a few co-ops up in upstairs riverdale...I may be joining you soon lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 26, 2012 Share #19 Posted July 26, 2012 I'm actually looking at a few co-ops up in upstairs riverdale...I may be joining you soon lol Very cool... If you need any pointers just PM me. Another guy that comes on here was considering Riverdale as well, as he wanted to move up to Westchester, but he was priced out, and he works for the and I'm sure he earns well, so I told him he should consider moving up here since he has the wife and kids or whatever. Not sure how his search went though since he hasn't been on in a while but he said the prices compared to the parts of Westchester he wanted to be in were more "reasonable" if you will as Westchester can be pretty expensive considering that it is in the suburbs. Most of the co-ops in upstairs Riverdale don't have really anal/picky boards, so as long as your credit is in good shape (probably high 600s to 700s is fine) and your financials are okay (low debt to credit ratio, income, etc.) you should be fine. The only thing I will say is they may go overboard with paperwork because the folks in Riverdale are interested in keeping the neighborhood as it currently is. It's quiet and most folks know each other and have been here over 20 years in some cases and we like it that way, with the small community feel. You probably already know this but there is no night life here for young folks like ourselves. There are the restaurants and then the bars here and there but most things close early, so we just go to the city, which is just a ride away on MetroNorth or the express bus. Riverdale is a bedroom community and for those who like green, space and quietness, and I like it because you can be away from the filth of Manhattan and the obnoxious tourists in 30 - 40 minutes. Co-ops are cheaper but a pain to get rid of. I saw a buddy of mine from college a few weeks ago at our reunion here in Midtown, and he just had a little one and got married recently and they are dying to sell their co-op up in Westchester, but it is hard to move co-ops especially in this economy, so I would look at some condos as well, as the prices here in Riverdale right now are perfect for buying and there is a lot of inventory on the market. Some houses that were going for over a million here have sold for around 800,000k and that is for some of the stuff in the wealthiest parts of Riverdale (i.e. Fieldston), so there are deals to be had. Less drama and more for your return with a condo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediccjh Posted July 30, 2012 Share #20 Posted July 30, 2012 Blame the hipsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted July 31, 2012 Share #21 Posted July 31, 2012 Blame the hipsters. Agreed, it's those damn hipsters trying to invade our beloved New York City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoSpectacular Posted July 31, 2012 Share #22 Posted July 31, 2012 I recently took a civil service exam for motor vehicle operator, there's no way I'd move out of this city, plus it's ridiculously boring out there with no [little] civilization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 31, 2012 Share #23 Posted July 31, 2012 Same here... I moved to Riverdale because it offers a suburban setting with "urban" transportation if you will that is conveniently close by to walk to. It is easy to reach the city and I have no need for a car, which was exactly why I left Staten Island. On Staten Island, it's part of the city, but at the same so not part of the city, not to mention people getting their cars banged out and the crappy roads. Moving to Westchester I would be stuck with just MetroNorth and I would probably have to break down and get a car too. I just find it too much of a hassle. I've always liked living the way I live now. It was the same in Europe too. I could walk to my classes or just about anywhere in the city even though I was a 20 minute walk from Downtown, but still sort of outside of the city center if you will by European suburban standards anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 1, 2012 Share #24 Posted August 1, 2012 Same here... I moved to Riverdale because it offers a suburban setting with "urban" transportation if you will that is conveniently close by to walk to. It is easy to reach the city and I have no need for a car, which was exactly why I left Staten Island. On Staten Island, it's part of the city, but at the same so not part of the city, not to mention people getting their cars banged out and the crappy roads. Moving to Westchester I would be stuck with just MetroNorth and I would probably have to break down and get a car too. I just find it too much of a hassle. I've always liked living the way I live now. It was the same in Europe too. I could walk to my classes or just about anywhere in the city even though I was a 20 minute walk from Downtown, but still sort of outside of the city center if you will by European suburban standards anyway. VG8 i could never picture anywhere else in america which is the car captial of the world. Not LA, Not SF Bay area, Not Chicago, or Miami lol. Not even to visit for a few days. Not a knock just proves how some new yorkers never leave or move because despite their many flaws the has among the best mass transit on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 1, 2012 Share #25 Posted August 1, 2012 Blame the hipsters. True, but yuppies also factor into it..... the combination of the two (indirectly) done caused rents & mortgages to go through the roof in certain parts of the borough...... More demand for these areas, the more the prices go up..... This is also done to keep much of the "riff raff" out of residing in said areas..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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