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Suburbs Try to Prevent an Exodus as Young Adults Move to Cities and Stay


Via Garibaldi 8

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Suburbs Try to Prevent an Exodus as Young Adults Move to Cities and Stay

It is a well-trod trail: Suburban youngsters enter their early 20s, leave their parents’ comfortable Tudors or colonials for the pizazz of the city, dawdle a few years until they find mates and begin having children and then, seeking more space and good public schools, move back to the suburbs and into their own Tudors or colonials.

But that pattern is changing, or at least shifting. A recent report on the suburb-dotted New York counties of Westchester, Nassau and Suffolk, based on United States census data, found that those young people seem to be lingering longer in New York City, sometimes forsaking suburban life entirely.

Demographers and politicians are scratching their heads over the change and have come up with conflicting theories. And some suburban towns are trying to make themselves more alluring to young residents, building apartment complexes, concert venues, bicycle lanes and more exotic restaurants.

Since 2000, Westchester, Nassau and Suffolk have experienced a drop in the number of 25- to 44-year-olds, with the declines particularly sharp in more affluent communities. Between 2000 and 2011, Rye, for example, had a 63 percent decrease in 25- to 34-year-old residents and a 16 percent decrease in 35- to 44-year-olds.

Photo
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 Jennifer Levi Ross at age 7.

New York suburbs are not the only ones getting somewhat grayer. In three Maryland suburbs outside Washington, Chevy Chase lost 34 percent of its 25- to 34-year-olds, Bethesda 19.2 percent and Potomac 27 percent. The declines were comparable for Kenilworth, Winnetka and Glencoe outside Chicago, and Nantucket, Barnstable and Norfolk Counties outside Boston.

Alexander Roberts, executive director of Community Housing Innovations, an advocacy group for affordable housing that released the report about the New York counties, attributed the declines in Westchester and on Long Island to the increasing cost of houses and the resistance by localities to building apartment buildings with modest rentals. The greatest population losses, he said, were in “the least diverse communities with the most expensive housing, which happen also to be those that have almost no affordable multifamily housing.”

Others who accept the data dispute Mr. Roberts’s explanations, pointing out that prices in some Manhattan and Brooklyn neighborhoods are even higher than those in the more expensive suburbs. But, he continued, the city is safer and more energized than it was a generation ago, and its allure has grown. Cities like Baltimore, Washington and Boston have also revitalized rundown or desolate neighborhoods.

Some suburbs are working diligently to find ways to hold onto their young. In the past decade, Westbury, N.Y., has built a total of 850 apartments — condos, co-ops and rentals — near the train station, a hefty amount for a village of 15,000 people. Late last year it unveiled a new concert venue, the Space at Westbury, that books performers like Steve Earle, Tracy Morgan and Patti Smith.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/nyregion/suburbs-try-to-hold-onto-young-adults-as-exodus-to-cities-appears-to-grow.html?hpw&rref=nyregion&_r=0 

 

This is what happens when you cut vital transportation options and young folks face longer commutes.  If these communities want the youth to stay, then it's important that they maintain and increase commuter services to Manhattan (i.e. Metro-North, LIRR and express bus service), otherwise they're going to face a population and tax crisis.  This is precisely why I stand firm against those who argue for cuts to suburban areas of the city with limited transportation options.

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This is what happens when you cut vital transportation options and young folks face longer commutes.  If these communities want the youth to stay, then it's important that they maintain and increase commuter services to Manhattan (i.e. Metro-North, LIRR and express bus service), otherwise they're going to face a population and tax crisis.  This is precisely why I stand firm against those who argue for cuts to suburban areas of the city with limited transportation options.

How will increasing commuter service to Manhattan encourage young people to stay in the suburbs?

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How will increasing commuter service to Manhattan encourage young people to stay in the suburbs?

One of reasons young people are leaving the suburbs is because they don't want to drive and want reliable mass transit.  A lot of areas in the suburbs have crap transportation options and require a car.  Having apartments near MNRR stations for example would be more conducive.  The other issue is commuter trains don't run frequently enough or end too soon and many folks don't want to be tied down to a limited schedule.  I made that comment as a young person who left Staten Island for that reason. I'm part of the young generation that doesn't want to deal with a car.  That's precisely why I moved to Riverdale because it has excellent transportation options, and is a quick commute from Manhattan.  In the worst case scenario, if I can't get the express bus or MNRR back late at night, there are plenty of yellow taxis that will take you to Riverdale for $30.00.  I think this is a trend that will only continue with the young population and that elected officials need to realize this and start making adjustments because if they don't, you're going to have an aging population with a limited tax base to support the basic needs of these communities.  

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The problem is simple. They have priced the areas totally out of reach. Why did New Jersey blossom with housing 40 years ago and the spread start. No one could afford the price in New York. If you use the normal mortgage requirements then the person has to make over 100K to buy that 300K house, how many can qualify. It isn't the commute but cost.

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The problem is simple. They have priced the areas totally out of reach. Why did New Jersey blossom with housing 40 years ago and the spread start. No one could afford the price in New York. If you use the normal mortgage requirements then the person has to make over 100K to buy that 300K house, how many can qualify. It isn't the commute but cost.

If you read the article, it's both the commute and the cost... The commutes from suburban areas are becoming worse, so much so that even those that can afford to move to suburban areas don't and stay in the city, sacrificing space.

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If you read the article, it's both the commute and the cost... The commutes from suburban areas are becoming worse, so much so that even those that can afford to move to suburban areas don't and stay in the city, sacrificing space.

No its not the commute unless it exceeds 90 minutes but the cost of the commute. Those monthly tickets while cheaper are not inexpensive and this adds up. So even getting an apt in burbs when the ticket is added it is cheaper for the city.

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No its not the commute unless it exceeds 90 minutes but the cost of the commute. Those monthly tickets while cheaper are not inexpensive and this adds up. So even getting an apt in burbs when the ticket is added it is cheaper for the city.

Did you read the article?? 

 

 

Some suburbs are working diligently to find ways to hold onto their young. In the past decade, Westbury, N.Y., has built a total of 850 apartments — condos, co-ops and rentals — near the train station, a hefty amount for a village of 15,000 people. Late last year it unveiled a new concert venue, the Space at Westbury, that books performers like Steve Earle, Tracy Morgan and Patti Smith.

Long Beach, N.Y., with a year-round population of 33,000, has also been refreshing its downtown near the train station over the last couple of decades. The city has provided incentives to spruce up signage and facades, remodeled pavements and crosswalks, and provided more parking. A smorgasbord of ethnic restaurants flowered on Park Avenue, the main street.

The parts in bold are not a coincidence....

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Did you read the article?? 

 

The parts in bold are not a coincidence....

Yes I read it a couple of times but studies were done about 30 years ago with commuters as to the time involved and employment etc and 60 minutes was the desired and dropping off with 90 minutes. Westbury has a nice idea but unless they can get employment of a paying level high enough you will never hold what you desire. Why did NJ develop when NYers realized that a mortgage in NJ and price of the commute was cheaper than paying rent in Manhattan plus they had a piece of this rock we are flying around on. Long Beach program basically holds their property levels at a very good price and used in many older communities to keep real values high.

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One of reasons young people are leaving the suburbs is because they don't want to drive and want reliable mass transit.  A lot of areas in the suburbs have crap transportation options and require a car.  Having apartments near MNRR stations for example would be more conducive.  The other issue is commuter trains don't run frequently enough or end too soon and many folks don't want to be tied down to a limited schedule.  I made that comment as a young person who left Staten Island for that reason. I'm part of the young generation that doesn't want to deal with a car.  That's precisely why I moved to Riverdale because it has excellent transportation options, and is a quick commute from Manhattan.  In the worst case scenario, if I can't get the express bus or MNRR back late at night, there are plenty of yellow taxis that will take you to Riverdale for $30.00.  I think this is a trend that will only continue with the young population and that elected officials need to realize this and start making adjustments because if they don't, you're going to have an aging population with a limited tax base to support the basic needs of these communities.  

 

 The only way to keep young people in the suburbs would be to enhance local bus service in the surburbs. I live in Nassau and the lack of transportation in the county is mostly because the County Executive doesn't want to pay a dime for the service. If you go to the NICE Bus section of this forum, you'll see people complaining about the buses breaking down, or how the buses 10-30 minutes late. Routes like the n4,n6,n20,n22,n24,n27 are being altered every few months because NICE is operating on a limted budget and can't afford to provide more bus service. If the county executive would invest more money in local bus service, then there would be more service.

 

More commuter service to Manhattan won't do any good since most people don't live next to a LIRR station. Depending on where you live in Nassau, the closest LIRR station is a few miles a way and requires either a car or bus to get there. There is express bus service to Manhattan in some parts of Nassau, but they're not owned by NICE and are only available in certain neighborhoods.

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While I very much agree that a more than decent amount of public transportation options is vital to attracting young well to do people there are other factors to take into consideration as well. Primary factors such as area real estate costs, types of housing available, easy commute to employment or city center (obviously). Secondary factors such as proximity to nightlife venues, proximity to other local businesses, area cultural background. A lot to take int consideration, and a lot that many suburbs, even in the metro area, do not offer.

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The only way to keep young people in the suburbs would be to enhance local bus service in the surburbs. I live in Nassau and the lack of transportation in the county is mostly because the County Executive doesn't want to pay a dime for the service. If you go to the NICE Bus section of this forum, you'll see people complaining about the buses breaking down, or how the buses 10-30 minutes late. Routes like the n4,n6,n20,n22,n24,n27 are being altered every few months because NICE is operating on a limted budget and can't afford to provide more bus service. If the county executive would invest more money in local bus service, then there would be more service.

 

More commuter service to Manhattan won't do any good since most people don't live next to a LIRR station. Depending on where you live in Nassau, the closest LIRR station is a few miles a way and requires either a car or bus to get there. There is express bus service to Manhattan in some parts of Nassau, but they're not owned by NICE and are only available in certain neighborhoods.

 

The problem is the county did no planning years ago or better put decades ago. Nassau took the viewpoint we are a bedroom community for New York and built like crazy to satisfy that standard. Everything was pushed for retail and office with this great service economy. Service economies don't produce wealth and also don't generate high paying jobs or allow high taxation so the houses have to take the hit. Now the county is bust and now the money has to go to where its essential and any other moneys go to whatever. Well the bus system is on the nonessential list. They are worrying about present survival not the future.

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While I very much agree that a more than decent amount of public transportation options is vital to attracting young well to do people there are other factors to take into consideration as well. Primary factors such as area real estate costs, types of housing available, easy commute to employment or city center (obviously). Secondary factors such as proximity to nightlife venues, proximity to other local businesses, area cultural background. A lot to take int consideration, and a lot that many suburbs, even in the metro area, do not offer.

You are close to the problem but I will add one more thing. There are not that many well off young ones and they can command the salary anywhere. Why should they stay there. Status is expensive and you can't eat status.

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You are close to the problem but I will add one more thing. There are not that many well off young ones and they can command the salary anywhere. Why should they stay there. Status is expensive and you can't eat status.

That I'd have to agree on. And to add, status isn't as important to most as there is less of a focus in contrast to years prior.

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It also seems that here in my home county (Nassau), the further north and/or east in the county, the less young people there are.

In fact, on places such as the LI board on City-Data (which I lurk on from time to time), if someone wants a walkable (by LI standards), cheap area with decent schools, as well as good public transport (by LI standards again, but that's still better than most of the USA), the posters tend to get recommended one of the following towns:

-Valley Stream

-Lynbrook

-Rockville Centre

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Living in the suburbs sucks ass!

 

As someone who has lived in a suburb since 2009, I can agree with this. I don't know where this idea that the level of transit has anything to do with whether or not people stay, but the reason why I'm not fond of the suburbs is that they are severely limited in terms of things you can do. We have a few grocery stores, a library, a few schools, a sports arena (which is really no good at all unless you're a hockey nut) and a train station, and that's pretty much it.

 

I'd welcome living in a big city - partially because there is much more to photograph when it comes to transit - but even without that considered, I'm really not a fan of the suburbs. Give me a big, bustling city any day of the week!

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As someone who has lived in a suburb since 2009, I can agree with this. I don't know where this idea that the level of transit has anything to do with whether or not people stay, but the reason why I'm not fond of the suburbs is that they are severely limited in terms of things you can do. We have a few grocery stores, a library, a few schools, a sports arena (which is really no good at all unless you're a hockey nut) and a train station, and that's pretty much it.

 

I'd welcome living in a big city - partially because there is much more to photograph when it comes to transit - but even without that considered, I'm really not a fan of the suburbs. Give me a big, bustling city any day of the week!

Because it doesn't.

 

It's a lifestyle issue.... You can run buses every 5 minutes & trains every 5 minutes & this "problem" (have those that are strongly pro-suburb, anti-urban tell it) of young adults wanting the "trendy" lifestyle (as much as I hate that term) would still be apparent....

 

A classic example of this are the offspring of middle-working class parents that reside in Westchester & Nassau/Suffolk that have reached that level in life (of making just as much as their parents did, or more, when they were in their 20's), are flat out tired of the whole, staying (in manhattan) after work on a friday until 4-5am, to then head back home, or the ones who head home directly after work, gather up some more friends, to COME BACK to manhattan for a night out..... To be honest, I can't blame them... The millennial is a different breed of youngster that's comin out; it's not like when their parents were kids & their (the parents') parents instilled that way of life onto them, and (the parents of the millenials) were okay with it.....

 

But since this is a transportation based forum, I'll say this:

This is the demographic that the LIRR, MNRR, and NJT (in NYC's case) does not want, or really, can afford to lose....

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Because it doesn't.

 

It's a lifestyle issue.... You can run buses every 5 minutes & trains every 5 minutes & this "problem" (have those that are strongly pro-suburb, anti-urban tell it) of young adults wanting the "trendy" lifestyle (as much as I hate that term) would still be apparent....

 

A classic example of this are the offspring of middle-working class parents that reside in Westchester & Nassau/Suffolk that have reached that level in life (of making just as much as their parents did, or more, when they were in their 20's), are flat out tired of the whole, staying (in manhattan) after work on a friday until 4-5am, to then head back home, or the ones who head home directly after work, gather up some more friends, to COME BACK to manhattan for a night out..... To be honest, I can't blame them... The millennial is a different breed of youngster that's comin out; it's not like when their parents were kids & their (the parents') parents instilled that way of life onto them, and (the parents of the millenials) were okay with it.....

 

But since this is a transportation based forum, I'll say this:

This is the demographic that the LIRR, MNRR, and NJT (in NYC's case) does not want, or really, can afford to lose....

Yes but transportation is precisely part of that "lifestyle".  If you have accessible transportation that you can walk to, that can make a world of a difference.  The folks living in city want it all and I get that but at the same time, they also want accessible transportation and that's where they move to.  Of course for those who want the urban life, no amount of public transit improvements in the suburbs will make a difference, but for those who want a mix of urban and suburban (those folks do exist such as myself) you have some communities like mine which has been quite successful with having a mix of a young population with the old and middle aged population. I think what you may see is a new breed of urban-suburban communities.... They'll need this if they expect to attract young folks... I would argue that the MNRR, LIRR and NJT needs that because if the older population starts leaving to Florida and other cheaper areas, those people need to be replaced by someone and there needs to be a tax base to support those communities.

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Yes but transportation is precisely part of that "lifestyle".  If you have accessible transportation that you can walk to, that can make a world of a difference.  The folks living in city want it all and I get that but at the same time, they also want accessible transportation and that's where they move to.  Of course for those who want the urban life, no amount of public transit improvements in the suburbs will make a difference, but for those who want a mix of urban and suburban (those folks do exist such as myself) you have some communities like mine which has been quite successful with having a mix of a young population with the old and middle aged population. I think what you may see is a new breed of urban-suburban communities.... They'll need this if they expect to attract young folks... I would argue that the MNRR, LIRR and NJT needs that because if the older population starts leaving to Florida and other cheaper areas, those people need to be replaced by someone and there needs to be a tax base to support those communities.

Hold on....

 

TTC says: "I don't know where this idea that the level of transit has anything to do with whether or not people stay..."

B35 says: " Because it doesn't.

 

It's a lifestyle issue.... You can run buses every 5 minutes & trains every 5 minutes & this "problem" (have those that are strongly pro-suburb, anti-urban tell it) of young adults wanting the "trendy" lifestyle (as much as I hate that term) would still be apparent...."

 

VG8 says: "Yes but transportation is precisely part of that "lifestyle".... "

 

Of course transportation is a part of the lifestyle (never said transportation was not), but have someone read a post stating this:

 

NY1635 says: "The only way to keep young people in the suburbs would be to enhance local bus service in the surburbs..."

 

...and one would think transportation is the ONLY reason why this is an issue... I definitely see where TTC & Quill are coming from with their posts....

 

 

As for what you're saying here, this isn't about those wanting the amenities of both urban & suburban areas, this is about (young) suburbanites wanting the urban lifestyle...... The title of the article doesn't read *Suburbs Try to Prevent an Exodus as Young Adults Move to Cities and Occasionally Come Back To The Suburbs*.... Lol

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Hold on....

 

TTC says: "I don't know where this idea that the level of transit has anything to do with whether or not people stay..."

B35 says: " Because it doesn't.

 

It's a lifestyle issue.... You can run buses every 5 minutes & trains every 5 minutes & this "problem" (have those that are strongly pro-suburb, anti-urban tell it) of young adults wanting the "trendy" lifestyle (as much as I hate that term) would still be apparent...."

 

VG8 says: "Yes but transportation is precisely part of that "lifestyle".... "

 

Of course transportation is a part of the lifestyle (never said transportation was not), but have someone read a post stating this:

 

NY1635 says: "The only way to keep young people in the suburbs would be to enhance local bus service in the surburbs..."

 

...and one would think transportation is the ONLY reason why this is an issue... I definitely see where TTC & Quill are coming from with their posts....

 

 

As for what you're saying here, this isn't about those wanting the amenities of both urban & suburban areas, this is about (young) suburbanites wanting the urban lifestyle...... The title of the article doesn't read *Suburbs Try to Prevent an Exodus as Young Adults Move to Cities and Occasionally Come Back To The Suburbs*.... Lol

I'm aware of that, but my point was that IF the suburbs are going to hang on to the young folks moving away, the suburbs to some extent will need to reinvent themselves to become more urban, which believe it or not is possible.

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I'm aware of that, but my point was that IF the suburbs are going to hang on to the young folks moving away, the suburbs to some extent will need to reinvent themselves to become more urban, which believe it or not is possible.

Nassau is trying to do this very thing you mention, but I do not believe they'll ever be successful.....

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Not if NICE can not be urban like. And continue running buses to nowhere cough*N80*cough

 

But there's little to nothing to do in Nassau. It feels like all the fun and recreational stuff is mostly concentrated in the middle of the county, and thinly spread out across the island.

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As someone who has been living in the burbs for 12 years, I'm starting to become tired of the suburban scene. There's nothing to do, getting around without a car can be a royal PITA, and it's just flat out boring. It's why I want to go to college in NYC. It's a bustling city with diversity, getting around isn't a problem at all, if anything I'm gonna live in Jersey City after I get my first high paying job (if I'm lucky with this economy) because I want to be close to the city. You just don't find quality nightlife in the burbs and that's what most people between my age and 28 are looking for. The bustling, never-sleeping nightlife of NYC.

 

 

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Well with today's younger age 20's they are moving to the city or staying in the city due to being close to work, most are not having kids or only one kid. Also less are getting married. They value the walking to work, home, shopping etc or taking transit as well. Car ownership is dropping with the same age group as they are not getting cars when living in the city. Auto sharing programs are becoming bigger because of this.

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