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NYPD Transit Chief: Subway is safer than before, but we won't let up on our fight


Harry

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Chief of Transit Joseph Fox writes that the NYPD address not only the crime and disorder in the subway system, but the causes. Many New Yorkers remember the bad old days — back in 1990, when there were about 48 serious felonies per day in the subway system. In that year alone, there were about 17,500 reported felony index crimes — a category that includes homicide, robbery, forcible rape and aggravated assault. Those were difficult years, and passenger unease was as evident as graffiti on the trains. The men and women of the NYPD and members of our community invested heavily in combatting subway crime. In time, we saw dividends.

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Quite frankly they'll need to step up enforcement in order to keep crime low on the subways because more people continue to use the system and that means more opportunities for the criminals, pan handlers and other opportunists.  Quite frankly I think the worst times to take the subway is during the summer when the crowds tend to be bigger.  People seem to let the heat get to their heads and become emboldened.  Luckily for me I won't really need the subway much again until it's cold, but nevertheless they need to continue to go after the panhandlers and the people doing their acts on the subway.  The last time I took the (A) , there was a group on the subway playing.  They play at clubs, etc., yet they're on the subway annoying people and thinking that's the way to get more people to know about them? Why not play on the platform instead of yelling in people's ears after they've had a long day at work on a packed subway car.  I've become so used to them that now when I see them with backpacks and other large objects moving towards the center of the train, I immediately move towards the front or the rear of the car.

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Let's be real.  This isn't a utopia.  We're never going to get to that magic number known as Zero...

Well it's interesting that in other cities with subways, they generally don't have this problem, at least not the magnitude that it is here. Yes we have the largest subway system, but that doesn't excuse the situation.

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And what's your point?

 

European and Asian cities that don't have this problem are generally relatively homogenous culture-wise. There's no conflict of social expectations or whatnot here, so strife happens more often (although New York is certainly very safe these days compared to the rest of America).

 

The other part is that other cities have more powers to evict the homeless from public transit. They've also got better systems to accommodate the homeless, and in general less homelessness, so they don't have to deal with it as much as we do (and they also usually don't kick the mentally ill into the streets, which is a fairly significant problem here)

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European and Asian cities that don't have this problem are generally relatively homogenous culture-wise. There's no conflict of social expectations or whatnot here, so strife happens more often (although New York is certainly very safe these days compared to the rest of America).

 

The other part is that other cities have more powers to evict the homeless from public transit. They've also got better systems to accommodate the homeless, and in general less homelessness, so they don't have to deal with it as much as we do (and they also usually don't kick the mentally ill into the streets, which is a fairly significant problem here)

Actually I'd say that the homeless issue is less of an issue here at the moment within the system. Yes they're on the subway, but the real issue that I see most often on subways are performers and panhandlers with their stories.  The true homeless people generally don't ask for money on the subway.  It's the scam artists that do it more than anyone else.

 

As for this nonsense about strife, as someone who lived in Europe, there is plenty of strife there.  The difference is (and what I've been getting at is) that there is no reason to have expectations low in terms of the quality of life and the expectations of subway riders just because this is New York as if certain conditions should be accepted and expected.  That's completely ridiculous, and the fact of the matter is this is not the New York subway system of the 1980's where the thugs took over the system. Culture, population size... These are all very poor excuses to try to state that a certain type of "norm" should be expected when riding the subway that I simply don't accept, nor should anyone else.  High standards can be kept here just as they are kept in other places if a thousand excuses aren't made in the process.

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I don't see anyone making excuses here. On the subject of the homeless, there are two issues that the NYC subway has that many other transit systems don't have to contend with. The first is that most other systems don't have 24 hour operations. The homeless people don't have to go anywhere here. Second, as has been mentioned above, there isn't much done by the city to curb the homeless epidemic, so they're able to use the subway as their homes without any consequence unless they are committing some kind of crime or are a danger to other riders.

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I don't see anyone making excuses here. On the subject of the homeless, there are two issues that the NYC subway has that many other transit systems don't have to contend with. The first is that most other systems don't have 24 hour operations. The homeless people don't have to go anywhere here. Second, as has been mentioned above, there isn't much done by the city to curb the homeless epidemic, so they're able to use the subway as their homes without any consequence unless they are committing some kind of crime or are a danger to other riders.

Yeah well the homeless situation is nothing new, nor is the fact the subways run 24/7 here, and if anything, considering how much people claim that NYC is so "hostile" to the homeless population, NYC has some of most welcoming liberal policies when it comes to the homeless and keeping people in their homes.  The fact that people can and do come to NYC to seek "refuge and shelter" and that the city is required by law to provide shelter says a lot.  However, in my mind, the homeless problem isn't that much of an issue on the subway in comparison to the aforementioned nuances.

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Yeah well the homeless situation is nothing new, nor is the fact the subways run 24/7 here, and if anything, considering how much people claim that NYC is so "hostile" to the homeless population, NYC has some of most welcoming liberal policies when it comes to the homeless and keeping people in their homes.  The fact that people can and do come to NYC to seek "refuge and shelter" and that the city is required by law to provide shelter says a lot.  However, in my mind, the homeless problem isn't that much of an issue on the subway in comparison to the aforementioned nuances.

 

The homeless do have a disproportionate negative impact on the system's image though. It's not that New York City is hostile per se, but that the city itself has a large amount of homeless, a significant chunk of which are mentally ill. We can't keep all of these people in shelters constantly, the shelters themselves are dangerous, and god forbid we open a new homeless shelter somewhere, so the subway or the street is the next option for them.

 

Without more police on trains, there's not exactly much the MTA itself can do about panhandlers, since the MTA no longer is in charge of subway security. On top of that, three or four decades of deferred maintenance and a system that doesn't shut down every night for cleaning makes maintaining Asian or Europe level cleanliness more difficult.

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The homeless do have a disproportionate negative impact on the system's image though. It's not that New York City is hostile per se, but that the city itself has a large amount of homeless, a significant chunk of which are mentally ill. We can't keep all of these people in shelters constantly, the shelters themselves are dangerous, and god forbid we open a new homeless shelter somewhere, so the subway or the street is the next option for them.

 

Without more police on trains, there's not exactly much the MTA itself can do about panhandlers, since the MTA no longer is in charge of subway security. On top of that, three or four decades of deferred maintenance and a system that doesn't shut down every night for cleaning makes maintaining Asian or Europe level cleanliness more difficult.

Yeah and how many New Yorkers are there? Of course there will be a lot of homeless people here, given NYC's laws regarding the homeless population, and the overall population size here.  For what it's worth, in Florence (Italy), there is no subway, but there are trains in the city centre that take you to Milan, Rome, Venice, Genoa, Turin and elsewhere in Italy, and that is where you would find the vagabonds or beggars, all usually huddled around the McDonald's near the Stazione Central station, begging for "una moneta".  They never came into the station itself though, and the reason was because it was patrolled by the carabinieri accordingly, who would not tolerate them setting up shop everywhere and discouraging people from using the public rail system, especially the more expensive Frecciarossa high-speed train service.  Given the size of the subway system here, obviously you can't eradicate the problem entirely, but you can be very aggressive by imposing stiffer enforcement and laws to deter panhandlers and I think this practice must be done here.  I traveled all over Italy on the train and can only think of one instance when I was heckled by some Roma vagabond.  Otherwise, I traveled wherever I wanted when I wanted, even traveling from Florence to Milan at 02:00 in the morning with no problems and no vagabonds anywhere.  I couldn't imagine doing that on the subway here.

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Yeah and how many New Yorkers are there? Of course there will be a lot of homeless people here, given NYC's laws regarding the homeless population, and the overall population size here.  For what it's worth, in Florence (Italy), there is no subway, but there are trains in the city centre that take you to Milan, Rome, Venice, Genoa, Turin and elsewhere in Italy, and that is where you would find the vagabonds or beggars, all usually huddled around the McDonald's near the Stazione Central station, begging for "una moneta".  They never came into the station itself though, and the reason was because it was patrolled by the carabinieri accordingly, who would not tolerate them setting up shop everywhere and discouraging people from using the public rail system, especially the more expensive Frecciarossa high-speed train service.  Given the size of the subway system here, obviously you can't eradicate the problem entirely, but you can be very aggressive by imposing stiffer enforcement and laws to deter panhandlers and I think this practice must be done here.  I traveled all over Italy on the train and can only think of one instance when I was heckled by some Roma vagabond.  Otherwise, I traveled wherever I wanted when I wanted, even traveling from Florence to Milan at 02:00 in the morning with no problems and no vagabonds anywhere.  I couldn't imagine doing that on the subway here.

Intercity travel in Italy is comparable to the Long Island Railroad (LIRR), Amtrak, or MetroNorth Railroad (MNRR). I've ridden one subway while in Rome, and I reckon it's worse than the crowding on the Lexington Avenue line here in New York. Some station entrances are rife with beggars, thieves, and swindlers.
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Intercity travel in Italy is comparable to the Long Island Railroad (LIRR), Amtrak, or MetroNorth Railroad (MNRR). I've ridden one subway while in Rome, and I reckon it's worse than the crowding on the Lexington Avenue line here in New York. Some station entrances are rife with beggars, thieves, and swindlers.

Did you ride the Frecciarossa? As for the beggars, thieves and swindlers, they are everywhere.  It's a problem throughout Europe, but for the most part if you ride the more expensive trains, (i.e. Frecciarossa or even the Eurostar) you avoid that problem since they're pricey.  That's what I used for most of my intercity trips in Italy when possible, not to mention a quicker ride.  Rome I went to several times, and used the subway once from the Colosseum to Stazione Termini to get back home to Florence.  I found the station to be clean and the ride quick though it wasn't that many stops.  Crowding wasn't too bad either.  

 

For what it's worth, even though my father's family is from Sicily, I would not live in Rome or in Southern Italy, though I have visited there and loved it.  The North is richer and therefore more efficient and organized, as Northern Italians won't tolerate high levels of crime, etc.  Nonetheless, you must always be on guard against pickpocket types due to the wealth in the Northern Italian cities.  Florence is probably the most expensive city outside of Milan and so a lot of people are targeted that look like they have money and/or aren't with the program so to speak.  I saw many Americans that were robbed (pick pocketed) when I would go to the local consulate to conduct bank transactions, etc. between Italy and the US.

 

In short though, just like in parts of Italy, where crime is allowed it festers, and the same thing is true for our subways.  The petty crimes must be handled accordingly in order to keep things from spiraling out of control.

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Did you ride the Frecciarossa? As for the beggars, thieves and swindlers, they are everywhere.  It's a problem throughout Europe, but for the most part if you ride the more expensive trains, (i.e. Frecciarossa or even the Eurostar) you avoid that problem since they're pricey.  That's what I used for most of my intercity trips in Italy when possible, not to mention a quicker ride.  Rome I went to several times, and used the subway once from the Colosseum to Stazione Termini to get back home to Florence.  I found the station to be clean and the ride quick though it wasn't that many stops.  Crowding wasn't too bad either.

I didn't ride the trains between cities since I had another ride. The best parts were the detours to the countryside where the trains don't go. Once you leave the cities for somewhere more remote, there is a 100% lack of beggars, thieves, and swindlers.

 

For what it's worth, even though my father's family is from Sicily, I would not live in Rome or in Southern Italy, though I have visited there and loved it.  The North is richer and therefore more efficient and organized, as Northern Italians won't tolerate high levels of crime, etc.  Nonetheless, you must always be on guard against pickpocket types due to the wealth in the Northern Italian cities.  Florence is probably the most expensive city outside of Milan and so a lot of people are targeted that look like they have money and/or aren't with the program so to speak.  I saw many Americans that were robbed (pick pocketed) when I would go to the local consulate to conduct bank transactions, etc. between Italy and the US.

 

In short though, just like in parts of Italy, where crime is allowed it festers, and the same thing is true for our subways.  The petty crimes must be handled accordingly in order to keep things from spiraling out of control.

From my experience, crime follows wherever there are Gypsies. And as racist as it may sound, I don't trust anyone who doesn't look European in Italy. Africans, Indians, Arabs, Asians… beg, peddle counterfeit goods, or create distractions so they can rob people blind. The ones in Venice, Milan, Pisa, and Rome are quite aggressive sometimes with one incident in Pisa where the peddler was making disparaging racial remarks when I turned him down and kept him from bothering the rest of the group. I didn't find Como, Florence, or Sorrento too bad though and overall, the problems that plagued other tourists did not affect me.

 

It's ironic that the closer you get to civilization, the less civil people are.

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I didn't ride the trains between cities since I had another ride. The best parts were the detours to the countryside where the trains don't go. Once you leave the cities for somewhere more remote, there is a 100% lack of beggars, thieves, and swindlers.

 

From my experience, crime follows wherever there are Gypsies. And as racist as it may sound, I don't trust anyone who doesn't look European in Italy. Africans, Indians, Arabs, Asians… beg, peddle counterfeit goods, or create distractions so they can rob people blind. The ones in Venice, Milan, Pisa, and Rome are quite aggressive sometimes with one incident in Pisa where the peddler was making disparaging racial remarks when I turned him down and kept him from bothering the rest of the group. I didn't find Como, Florence, or Sorrento too bad though and overall, the problems that plagued other tourists did not affect me.

 

It's ironic that the closer you get to civilization, the less civil people are.

LMAO... Your assessment is pretty good... The only people that heckled me were the Roma (aka gypsies) once in Florence and once in Verona and that was only because I was dressed well and they must've sensed that I had money... They followed me down the street begging for money in Italian until I got fed up and had to stop my phone convo. and basically was at the point of losing my composure/temper.  It was always women with the thinking being that men will have compassion and open their wallet because they can play on the whole the man helps a female crap.  I got into a confrontation with an African guy in Florence who got pissed because I didn't want to buy what he was selling but boy did he get pissed with what I told him in Italian, which I won't repeat here. :P  :lol:  You should've saw him though. He came running to where I was trying to speak to me in his broken Italian and his African friend had to restrain because he knew what would've happened.  I could get away with it too because me being an Italian-American, and being eligible for dual citizenship, I knew the carabinieri (cops) would've been carrying him out and were itching to deport him back to Africa.   :lol:

 

Yeah, truth be told though, it's like here... Most of the issues are usually found around train stations or on the subway. The main difference I would say is that you also have to vigilant on the buses for pick pocket types too there as opposed to here.

 

Yeah in Florence you will mainly see them by the city center and that's about it, but where I lived at there were basically none... Very expensive part of Florence near Palazzo Pitti.  I live on via della Chiesa off of via dei Serragli.  

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the carabinieri (cops) would've been carrying him out and were itching to deport him back to Africa.

One of these days, the Italian government will realize that these folks are a huge nuisance to visitors and natives alike, and the carabinieri will take proactive measures to eliminate the problem elements. It's probably not going to happen soon, but one can dream.
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One of these days, the Italian government will realize that these folks are a huge nuisance to visitors and natives alike, and the carabinieri will take proactive measures to eliminate the problem elements. It's probably not going to happen soon, but one can dream.

If it was up to the Italian government they would've been kicked out a long time ago.  The Bossi-Fini laws that were enacted when I was living there were some of the toughest immigration laws in Europe.  The problem is the European Union.  Italy is very strict with immigration, and would love to deport these people back to their respective countries and have taken numerous steps to do so based on the powers that they have and were doing so in the past.  The EU has cried repeatedly when Italy has exercised its rights to protect the country, and has called their actions "inhumane".  The same thing with Spain.  In short the illegal immigrants come to Spain, Italy and other Southern European countries by whatever means necessarily and the EU expects these countries to take in these people but won't state what to do with them afterwards.   <_< It's a catch 22.  They don't want to deal with the problem but they chastise the Southern European countries for exercising their options.

 

I would equate it to trying to get tough on the homeless here in our subways.  The police are basically helpless in really being tough with them and as a result, they fester.  

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If it was up to the Italian government they would've been kicked out a long time ago.  The Bossi-Fini laws that were enacted when I was living there were some of the toughest immigration laws in Europe.  The problem is the European Union.  Italy is very strict with immigration, and would love to deport these people back to their respective countries and have taken numerous steps to do so based on the powers that they have and were doing so in the past.  The EU has cried repeatedly when Italy has exercised its rights to protect the country, and has called their actions "inhumane".  The same thing with Spain.  In short the illegal immigrants come to Spain, Italy and other Southern European countries by whatever means necessarily and the EU expects these countries to take in these people but won't state what to do with them afterwards.   <_< It's a catch 22.  They don't want to deal with the problem but they chastise the Southern European countries for exercising their options.

 

I would equate it to trying to get tough on the homeless here in our subways.  The police are basically helpless in really being tough with them and as a result, they fester.  

 

The thing about the Roma is that they are from places within the EU's visa-free zone, and the EU guarantees freedom of movement for EU citizens across the Schengen zone, so there's not exactly much that can be done because they are within their legal rights. It would be the equivalent of New York trying to limit the migration of people from California; under the EU's single market, freedom of movement within the EU is essential.

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The thing about the Roma is that they are from places within the EU's visa-free zone, and the EU guarantees freedom of movement for EU citizens across the Schengen zone, so there's not exactly much that can be done because they are within their legal rights. It would be the equivalent of New York trying to limit the migration of people from California; under the EU's single market, freedom of movement within the EU is essential.

This is true. The same could be said about the homeless in the system.  Still doesn't mean that they aren't scorned.  The Roma like the homeless here in NYC are extremely ostracized.  They're seen as creating more crime and so at the very least if they can't be deported then they remain outcasts.  I would argue that the same is done with the homeless here.  If the subways are going to remain safe, I think de Blasio will have to address the homeless issue, and more importantly, petty crimes will have to kept under control within the system.

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