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Two Cops Pulled off Streets After Putting Dad of Six in a Choke Hold


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A crisis over an unarmed man who died on a Staten Island street after a city cop grabbed him in a prohibited chokehold forced Mayor de Blasio to delay his Italian vacation Friday. Officers Daniel Pantaleo, with eight years on the force, and Justin Damico, a four-year veteran cop, were both put on desk duty a day after the death of Eric Garner, Police Commissioner Bill Bratton said. Garner’s arrest and desperate pleas that he couldn’t breathe were captured on an exclusive Daily News video that de Blasio admitted left him “with a heavy heart.” “It was very troubling,” he said at a City Hall news conference. “I watched it the same way a family member would watch it, and it was very sad to watch.” Hours later, the mayor put a hold on his vacation getaway.

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Not quite. Cops around the nation do this everyday to those who resist arrest, nothing new. The only reason this is a big deal now is because the man died. I ain't saying it was right, but keep in mind that he had a lengthy arrest record. Expert opinion here, he probably wanted to go...

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Not quite. Cops around the nation do this everyday to those who resist arrest, nothing new. The only reason this is a big deal now is because the man died. I ain't saying it was right, but keep in mind that he had a lengthy arrest record. Expert opinion here, he probably wanted to go...

 

It was a false arrest, and it is a big deal not only because he died (it might have been a heart attack), but he was put in an illegal chokehold. As much as the arrest record shows, it may not have anything to do with this. He was accused of selling loosies, and according to a witness he broke up a fight and that same witness says that he is a good person. Obviously he wanted to go, because he didn't do anything. People who sell cigarettes illegally don't lose their lives over it. They even ignored his cries that he couldn't breathe, and it's sad watching it to know that even if he was doing something illegal he wouldn't be suffering from death. As much as it was wrong to resist arrest, the cops should not have handled it they way they did. All he did was fight back with word, he did not touch the officers and you can only see him say "don't touch me" as the cop chokes him.

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It was a false arrest, and it is a big deal not only because he died (it might have been a heart attack), but he was put in an illegal chokehold. As much as the arrest record shows, it may not have anything to do with this. He was accused of selling loosies, and according to a witness he broke up a fight and that same witness says that he is a good person. Obviously he wanted to go, because he didn't do anything. People who sell cigarettes illegally don't lose their lives over it. They even ignored his cries that he couldn't breathe, and it's sad watching it to know that even if he was doing something illegal he wouldn't be suffering from death. As much as it was wrong to resist arrest, the cops should not have handled it they way they did. All he did was fight back with word, he did not touch the officers and you can only see him say "don't touch me" as the cop chokes him.

We've all heard enough of that "nice guy" crap, but I hear what you're saying....
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Not quite. Cops around the nation do this everyday to those who resist arrest, nothing new. The only reason this is a big deal now is because the man died. I ain't saying it was right, but keep in mind that he had a lengthy arrest record. Expert opinion here, he probably wanted to go...

 

1) He didn't resist.

2) His priors were generally for untaxed cigarettes. Not exactly a violent crime.

3) He was a father and grandfather. He definitely didn't.

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Some thoughts after watching the video and doing some research

 

1-It is illegal for officers to use chokeholds, according to this NY Times article and Bill Bratton's statements. It seems pretty clear that this officer used a chokehold. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/nyregion/staten-island-man-dies-after-he-is-put-in-chokehold-during-arrest.html?_r=0

 

2-However, it is also clear that this guy resisted arrest by flapping his arms, refusing to put his hands behnd his back, and screaming "don't touch me" and "I won't take it anymore".. Regardless of whether you are innocent or guilty, you NEVER resist arrest or you can expect to get knocked down and held down. That is a totally separate issue from whether or not you are being arrested or detained for a crime you actually committed. If I was a 400 pound asthmatic, I'd sure as hell not resist arrest, no matter how angry I am at the cops. This guy is described as being so sickly and weak that it sounds like any force at all would have pushed him towards death. 

 

3-It looked like the guy had 3 different IPhones on him (unless those were cigarette cartons, I can't tell). How in the hell did he afford 3 IPhones? I can barely afford 1 with my paying job.

 

3-Once the man was down, it seems from the video hat he had a pulse and at least some shallow breathing. Notice that the paramedic took his pulse and was satisfied that he had a pulse. In CPR training, you are generally taught that if someone has a pulse and some breathing, you do not perform CPR or Rescue Breathing. Therefore, it does not seem like the officers did anything wrong in keeping the man on his side and waiting for the ambulance to come, though one pathologist did say that he should have been upright to facilitate breathing. That may not have been possible given the situation.

I'd love to hear Mediccjh's opinion on this. 

 

Overall, it seems to me that the officers were justified in using force to subdue him and followed protocol in checking breathing and waiting for EMS, but the use of the chokehold itself will probably get that officer fired. 

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Some thoughts after watching the video and doing some research

 

1-It is illegal for officers to use chokeholds, according to this NY Times article and Bill Bratton's statements. It seems pretty clear that this officer used a chokehold. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/nyregion/staten-island-man-dies-after-he-is-put-in-chokehold-during-arrest.html?_r=0

 

2-However, it is also clear that this guy resisted arrest by flapping his arms, refusing to put his hands behnd his back, and screaming "don't touch me" and "I won't take it anymore".. Regardless of whether you are innocent or guilty, you NEVER resist arrest or you can expect to get knocked down and held down. That is a totally separate issue from whether or not you are being arrested or detained for a crime you actually committed. If I was a 400 pound asthmatic, I'd sure as hell not resist arrest, no matter how angry I am at the cops. This guy is described as being so sickly and weak that it sounds like any force at all would have pushed him towards death. 

 

3-It looked like the guy had 3 different IPhones on him (unless those were cigarette cartons, I can't tell). How in the hell did he afford 3 IPhones? I can barely afford 1 with my paying job.

 

3-Once the man was down, it seems from the video hat he had a pulse and at least some shallow breathing. Notice that the paramedic took his pulse and was satisfied that he had a pulse. In CPR training, you are generally taught that if someone has a pulse and some breathing, you do not perform CPR or Rescue Breathing. Therefore, it does not seem like the officers did anything wrong in keeping the man on his side and waiting for the ambulance to come, though one pathologist did say that he should have been upright to facilitate breathing. That may not have been possible given the situation.

I'd love to hear Mediccjh's opinion on this. 

 

Overall, it seems to me that the officers were justified in using force to subdue him and followed protocol in checking breathing and waiting for EMS, but the use of the chokehold itself will probably get that officer fired. 

You may want to recant some of the above... Good Day New York stated this morning that there was another video released that is currently being reviewed and it seems to show some other events that could have the cops and paramedics in hot water.  I have to agree with you that this guy should've never resisted arrest.  It wasn't as if he was going to get away or anything because with his weight that was impossible.  Aside from that, with that many cops there, they weren't going to let him go anywhere.

 

I will say this though... I've watched numerous takedowns around the country of various ethnic groups, and in my mind, the cops tend to be the roughest with black males.  I've seen Latino guys arrested and the cops never seem to be that rough with them overall, but then again those have been lighter skinned Latinos.  I've also seen Whites arrested and usually the same deal.. Not nearly as rough, though there are exceptions where the cops go wild on the child molestors.  I think the cops will argue that this guy was so big and it took so many guys to subdue him that they had no choice to use the amount of force that they did. 

 

I think regardless of how much training cops get, and regardless of their ethnic background, cops have this preconceived notion that black men are the most dangerous, almost as if they are animals, and they're fed this by the media.  We generally see black males being arrested the most, and also committing the most aggressive crimes.  Sure a white male may go on a shooting spree, but that isn't as common, and also they're using a gun versus black men who can become extremely aggressive physically without a gun.  There was a study out that said that employers are reluctant to hire dark skin black men in corporate environments because they see them as more threatening and far less intelligent, and their dark skin plays a role in that.  On the other end, employers tend to see mixed males (obviously light skinned (i.e. Obama's complexion or lighter)) as being smarter and not at all aggressive and more in line with other males (i.e. Asians, light skinned Latinos and Whites). 

 

Mixed males also apparently receive lighter sentences than their dark skin black counterparts.  Again it goes back to what the media pushes and what we see on TV, and unfortunately this male is a perfect example of what people think of when they think of "dangerous black men... The big bad dark skin black guy..." Now in this instance, I believe all of the cops that immediately responded to this event were white, but I'm not sure if the situation would've been that much different aside from the choke hold.  The notion that minority cops will be less racist because they're minorities is a joke. Some of them hold the same feelings towards blacks as white cops do, no matter how much they are trained. In their mind, it gives them the opportunity to avenge acts that may have been committed towards them when they were growing up or makes them feel as if they've moved up on the social/racial ladder so to speak.

 

I think the cop that had the black man in the choke hold knew very well what he was doing, and the amount of force that he used again goes back to what I said about dark skin black males being seen as very aggressive. The way that they had his head smashed against the pavement you would've thought that they were dealing with an animal because that's exactly how they treated him... Like a caged animal... Unfortunately the fact that he was so big at 400 pounds certainly didn't help matters and I think the white guy felt as if choking him was the only way to keep him subdued.  I mean if you look at how big that guy is versus the size of the cop, there is no comparison.

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You may want to recant some of the above... Good Day New York stated this morning that there was another video released that is currently being reviewed and it seems to show some other events that could have the cops and paramedics in hot water.  I have to agree with you that this guy should've never resisted arrest.  It wasn't as if he was going to get away or anything because with his weight that was impossible.  Aside from that, with that many cops there, they weren't going to let him go anywhere.

 

I will say this though... I've watched numerous takedowns around the country of various ethnic groups, and in my mind, the cops tend to be the roughest with black males.  I've seen Latino guys arrested and the cops never seem to be that rough with them overall, but then again those have been lighter skinned Latinos.  I've also seen Whites arrested and usually the same deal.. Not nearly as rough, though there are exceptions where the cops go wild on the child molestors.  I think the cops will argue that this guy was so big and it took so many guys to subdue him that they had no choice to use the amount of force that they did. 

 

I think regardless of how much training cops get, and regardless of their ethnic background, cops have this preconceived notion that black men are the most dangerous, almost as if they are animals, and they're fed this by the media.  We generally see black males being arrested the most, and also committing the most aggressive crimes.  Sure a white male may go on a shooting spree, but that isn't as common, and also they're using a gun versus black men who can become extremely aggressive physically without a gun.  There was a study out that said that employers are reluctant to hire dark skin black men in corporate environments because they see them as more threatening and far less intelligent, and their dark skin plays a role in that.  On the other end, employers tend to see mixed males (obviously light skinned (i.e. Obama's complexion or lighter)) as being smarter and not at all aggressive and more in line with other males (i.e. Asians, light skinned Latinos and Whites). 

 

Mixed males also apparently receive lighter sentences than their dark skin black counterparts.  Again it goes back to what the media pushes and what we see on TV, and unfortunately this male is a perfect example of what people think of when they think of "dangerous black men... The big bad dark skin black guy..." Now in this instance, I believe all of the cops that immediately responded to this event were white, but I'm not sure if the situation would've been that much different aside from the choke hold.  The notion that minority cops will be less racist because they're minorities is a joke. Some of them hold the same feelings towards blacks as white cops do, no matter how much they are trained. In their mind, it gives them the opportunity to avenge acts that may have been committed towards them when they were growing up or makes them feel as if they've moved up on the social/racial ladder so to speak.

 

I think the cop that had the black man in the choke hold knew very well what he was doing, and the amount of force that he used again goes back to what I said about dark skin black males being seen as very aggressive. The way that they had his head smashed against the pavement you would've thought that they were dealing with an animal because that's exactly how they treated him... Like a caged animal... Unfortunately the fact that he was so big at 400 pounds certainly didn't help matters and I think the white guy felt as if choking him was the only way to keep him subdued.  I mean if you look at how big that guy is versus the size of the cop, there is no comparison.

I hadn't heard about any other videos, but I'll certainly edit my thoughts if new data is released. These are just my hypotheses from the videos I saw so far.

 

It certainly is disturbing how pervasive and prevalent certain racist beliefs are in the world, and they certainly do affect society. As you said, I don't know how much of a role they played in this particular case. The lack of any racist comments or anything like that suggests to me that this cop really thought he was acting appropriately and likely got caught up in the takedown, especially since he is so much smaller than the guy he was arresting. 

 

Sad situation all around. 

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I hadn't heard about any other videos, but I'll certainly edit my thoughts if new data is released. These are just my hypotheses from the videos I saw so far.

 

It certainly is disturbing how pervasive and prevalent certain racist beliefs are in the world, and they certainly do affect society. As you said, I don't know how much of a role they played in this particular case. The lack of any racist comments or anything like that suggests to me that this cop really thought he was acting appropriately and likely got caught up in the takedown, especially since he is so much smaller than the guy he was arresting. 

 

Sad situation all around. 

I agree... I do think that if the prosecution has half a brain that they'll bring up his previous issues of excessive force... This isn't the first incident that he's had...

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This same officer from Staten Island in question has been brought into lawsuits twice for civil rights violations. Daniel Pantaleo forced two men into two men to "a humiliating and unlawful strip search" in the street, in public, where they were forced to "pull their pants and underwear down, squat and cough.". In a second lawsuit still in progress, this same cop was charged with misrepresenting facts when he arrested a man supposedly for being in possession of illegal drugs where a stop and frisk was not warranted. The person was not acting in a suspicious manner. The charges were dropped, and a second lawsuit ensued.

This was not an out of the blue jerk reaction dealing with a man twice his size. In reality this cop indeed has a rap sheet and a record for violating civilian's human rights. He should have been fired from the NYPD a long time ago for these reasons. Some things I will never understand....

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This same officer from Staten Island in question has been brought into lawsuits twice for civil rights violations. Daniel Pantaleo forced two men into two men to "a humiliating and unlawful strip search" in the street, in public, where they were forced to "pull their pants and underwear down, squat and cough.". In a second lawsuit still in progress, this same cop was charged with misrepresenting facts when he arrested a man supposedly for being in possession of illegal drugs where a stop and frisk was not warranted. The person was not acting in a suspicious manner. The charges were dropped, and a second lawsuit ensued.

 

This was not an out of the blue jerk reaction dealing with a man twice his size. In reality this cop indeed has a rap sheet and a record for violating civilian's human rights. He should have been fired from the NYPD a long time ago for these reasons. Some things I will never understand....

 

All has not been proven yet. Reason why he has not been fired yet. Give it time and he will be.

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Adding on to this incident, he wasn't technically resisting. No part in the video shows the cops telling him to put his hands behind his backs, they were just standing there. That was until Pantaleo tried to force his hands behind his back, which then he put him in a choke hold, and then Garner puts his hands up as he gets slammed to the ground. You see his hands when he is being pressed down and it seems as if it shows he is struggling. Then the cops ignored his cries.

 

This is a case of murder. Cops murder yearly, but they don't get jail time or anything. Regular people do it, they get charged and have to get jailed. His rap sheet doesn't matter. Selling untaxed cigarettes won't get you killed. Just because he had a bad rap sheet doesn't mean that he automatically did a crime there. I honestly hope Pantaleo gets charged, loses his job, and has to be locked up for AT LEAST 25 years. 

 

Just like how sign changers make everyone look down on the railfan community, its these bad cops that make the good cops look bad. 

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The abuse, evidence planting, and overreacting by corrupt cops nowadays is getting way out of hand, and there's plenty more going on that we don't hear about. And it goes way beyond that, I've seen PRIVATE SECURITY GUARDS punch and put people in chokeholds during shoplifting stops, sometimes way off their store/mall's property, and when I see something like that (especially some wannabe who thinks he's some kind of elite officer because he got a walkie talkie and square badge from some security company even though he has as much legal power as you and me) I really cringe, so much that I want to pull the guard...I mean "officer" away from the guy myself even if I'd get charged for it. I respect their right to defend their property (just as a private citizen does) but sometimes the abuse goes too far when it doesn't have to and it's just some punk trying to get a rush by abusing others. I even feel this way about home/gun owners sometimes as a 2nd Amendment supporter, there was something a few months ago where this guy lured these kids into robbing his house so he could shoot them several times and laugh in their faces. You can probably see my big thing is against overzealous private security after the things I've seen them do, but the police have no right to do these things either and what these cops did was disgusting.

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