Tokkemon Posted July 25, 2014 Share #1 Posted July 25, 2014 So here's a weird question. World Trade Center is an odd one in the system given its segregation from the Chambers St platform and I wonder if IND's competition had anything to do with the current setup underground. The train goes from W Broadway, under Vessey St(?) and then curves to Church St into Cortlandt St. This tunnel came first and seems like a bit of an odd route though it likely was moved a block over to avoid the IRT on Broadway. What's weird is the IND's Chambers St station where the Express tracks (from what I can tell) duck *under* the train and then down Fulton St. World Trade Center doesn't go down and stays level with the street so Cortlandt and WTC would be at the same elevation, correct? I haven't been able to find any schematics so this is guess work.I had a wild idea. Why weren't these tracks ever connected? They're both B division and (as far as I know) at the same elevation. If WTC was razed and the Courtland St station was used instead the train would have a potential connection to Brooklyn through Montague St. Given the unification of the system, would this actually work? I'm also interested to know if this was an idea like Chrystie St but later rejected or if people just don't want to get rid of the (nostalgic) WTC station. Or is there a service pattern causing the terminal to be more advantageous? Let me know your thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted July 25, 2014 Share #2 Posted July 25, 2014 Even though the IND planned to build the South 4th Street Line connection and tunnel from just out of that area, the IND would offset the location of platforms because that way they can allow for the wider access range for people in a larger radius. That said I am not denying that there are never used provisions on the 8th Avenue Line specifically for a number of interesting reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted July 25, 2014 Share #3 Posted July 25, 2014 Some of this has been discussed on subchat with Cortlandt St being perfectly alligned with the WTC platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted July 25, 2014 Share #4 Posted July 25, 2014 Yeah, I don't know if there were ever any serious proposals to link the two lines, but I do recall reading about a couple ideas here and on Subchat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted July 25, 2014 I've never used Subchat so I don't know what was said there. But its interesting that they're aligned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted July 26, 2014 Share #6 Posted July 26, 2014 I cant remember where I saw this from, if it was the old nycsubway.org Subtalk boards, but there is a theory by historians on the unusual construction of West 4th Street (The mezzazine is between the 8th Ave and 6th avenue stations). It was suggested that the IND at one time wanted to connect the 6th Avenue Line to the H&M RR (PATH) tunnels along 6th Avenue also. Midway through construction, they concluded that it will be too costly, building newer tunnels will be cost efficient and so that mezzanine was never used as flying junction, instead building the provision for later express tracks. Then the MTA came along and as part of the Plan For Action built it using the previous stub ends between 34th Street and West 4th Street in an attempt to fulfill original plans to send 6th Avenue trains to 6th Avenue. Then as for the unusual layout of WTC itself, it used to be the Hudson and Manhattan terminal, and it was common practice for the IND to lay out platforms like this for a larger fare control area (nycsubway.org again), but I am wondering if this may have to do with the South 4th Street subway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted July 26, 2014 Share #7 Posted July 26, 2014 I remember having an idea like that. It would be cool thought and a useful BMT-IND link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted July 28, 2014 Share #8 Posted July 28, 2014 I cant remember where I saw this from, if it was the old nycsubway.org Subtalk boards, but there is a theory by historians on the unusual construction of West 4th Street (The mezzazine is between the 8th Ave and 6th avenue stations). It was suggested that the IND at one time wanted to connect the 6th Avenue Line to the H&M RR (PATH) tunnels along 6th Avenue also. Midway through construction, they concluded that it will be too costly, building newer tunnels will be cost efficient and so that mezzanine was never used as flying junction, instead building the provision for later express tracks. Then the MTA came along and as part of the Plan For Action built it using the previous stub ends between 34th Street and West 4th Street in an attempt to fulfill original plans to send 6th Avenue trains to 6th Avenue. Then as for the unusual layout of WTC itself, it used to be the Hudson and Manhattan terminal, and it was common practice for the IND to lay out platforms like this for a larger fare control area (nycsubway.org again), but I am wondering if this may have to do with the South 4th Street subway... never knew that, thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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