Outer boro transit dreams: A wishlist of service improvements

[Union Tpke]

http://www.amny.com/transit/outerboro-transit-dreams-a-wishlist-of-service-improvements-1.9311988

 

Manhattan is still the center of New York's universe when it comes planning transportation projects. The MTA has been building the long-awaited first leg of the Second Avenue subway, the transit system's first expansion in decades will bring the No. 7 to the Far West Side, and there will be space in Grand Central Terminal for Long Island Rail Road.

 

BROOKLYN

Riders who live off the F line have been eager to see a return of an express train in Brooklyn, but the idea has never gained enough traction. A group of elected officials say overburdened commuters need relief on a line that has seen ridership grow over the years.

 

"The benefits of restoring the F train express service in Brooklyn would be felt throughout the borough with decreased travel time to Manhattan, decreased delays along the entire line, and a better quality of life for all subway riders in our communities," said a letter Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams and 13 lawmakers sent to MTA chief Tom Prendergast.

 

The MTA is studying the issue and has said any express F service, last seen in 1987, would have to wait until rehabilitation and track work on the Culver Viaduct at the Smith-9th Street station is complete. That project is coming to a close, though the MTA did not have an expected end date as crews continue work on the 80-year-old structure spanning the Gowanus Canal.

 

"We think now is the time to rally around making sure that the F starts the process of representing fast service and not failed opportunity," Adams told amNewYork.

 

Officials said riders in the southern part of the line would get a faster ride to downtown and Manhattan, while people who use the popular local stops in DUMBO and Brownstone Brooklyn would see fewer delays and less crowding.

 

"I grew up on a local stop," Adams said. "I tell you, nothing is more troublesome than having to watch the trains go by when they're too full."

 

MTA spokesman Adam Lisberg said there are operational challenges in implementing express service. For instance, there is less track space for trains between the Bergen and Jay street stops where the rails merge, he said.

 

"It's not as simple as just throwing on extra trains, because they all have to end up merging together," Lisberg said.

 

Another part of the study is to look at the demographics to find out how many riders would benefit from express F service and how riders at crowded local stops would be affected.

 

"The largest volumes are getting on at some of the stations closer in anyway," Lisberg said. "How much savings is there really? That's why we're doing the study, to find out."

 

Councilman David Greenfield of Borough Park said express F service is a transit improvement that his community has wanted for years. Express service was even a campaign promise during Mayor Michael Bloomberg's 2009 re-election.

 

"The F express is the Holy Grail for southern Brooklyn when it comes to transportation," said Greenfield, who signed the letter. The Culver F line saw a 4.5% bump in weekday ridership over 2013, helping Brooklyn see the largest gain in weekday riders in the city. The residential development boost in Brooklyn that has brought in new riders has also caused delays and crowding.

 

The officials are calling for limited express trains on top of current service in the morning for Manhattan commuters and during the evening rush hour for southbound passengers. The MTA said in a 2009 study of the F line that express service would require new trains and more money to run them.

 

BRONX

The prospects of a long-studied plan to bring Metro-North into Penn Station were improved following Superstorm Sandy. Gov. Andrew Cuomo in January blessed the project as a way to keep Metro-North trains running in case a future storm or accident knocks out the commuter rail's sole link into Manhattan.

But the $1 billion project will also give residents in transit-starved east Bronx neighborhoods a faster way into Manhattan's commercial district, with four new Metro-North stations proposed along the New Haven line in Co-op City, Morris Park, Parkchester and Hunts Point. There are 160,000 Bronx residents living within a mile of each proposed stop, according to Bronx officials. Placing a stop in Co-op City -- the northernmost location -- would cut a trip to Penn Station to under 40 minutes from an hour and a half.

"It's a game changer for people who need to find a new place to live and for those that already live in the Bronx that would love a better commute to their jobs or their destinations in Manhattan," said Marlene Cintron, president of the Bronx Overall Economic Development Corp.

The state is expecting to find out this fall if federal transit officials approve money to get Metro-North trains into Penn Station in case of emergency.

The MTA declined to say if any money for the new stations would be in their next capital plan for transit improvements, but Bronxites must nonetheless wait for Metro-North service until Long Island Rail Road trains can enter Grand Central Terminal to make room at Penn Station, a project slated to be finished by 2023.

 

 

 

 

QUEENS

Queens transit advocates believe a 3.5-mile piece of Long Island Rail Road track that has been abandoned since 1962 is the best hope to slash travel times to Manhattan and other far-flung neighborhoods in the city's largest borough.

Advocates for reactivating a rail say some kind of transportation there would make colleges and job centers in northern parts of Queens and midtown Manhattan more accessible.

"How do you get to these schools and how do you get to these better jobs if you're an hour and a half, two hours away," complained Phil McManus of the Queens Public Transit Committee, which is pushing for the line to be brought back. "It will drastically improve not just Rockaway but everybody that's close to that line."

The abandoned track runs near Woodhaven Boulevard from Ozone Park up to Rego Park, close to the Queens Boulevard lines serving the E, F M and R trains. The Queens Public Transit Committee envisions a subway that connects to the Queens Boulevard line or carries riders near it; or running LIRR trains to connect with the three branches that run through Queens into Penn Station.

The MTA in its report looking 20 years into the future said a solution to the challenge of moving people who are traveling within boroughs is using the abandoned track as a way to link subway lines.

But there is competition for this stretch of aging track. A group wants to turn it into a High Line-style park and bike path called QueensWay.

In the meantime, Queens College's Urban Studies Department is wrapping up an analysis of people's travel patterns and a 5,000-person survey for a "snapshot of community opinion" on the proposals, said Scott Larson, director of community studies at the urban studies department, who is overseeing the study.

"Clearly, the Rockaways is underserved in terms of transportation -- that much is pretty clear," Larson said.

 

 

 

 

STATEN ISLAND

Staten Island has an anemic transportation network of buses that ride on traffic-clogged streets and a railroad that trots along the borough's eastern shore. But transit advocates still have big dreams for the borough of automobiles.

On the north shore, a bus rapid transit system is the plan with the most promise for a deteriorating track that runs from the Staten Island Ferry through the western shore of Staten Island along Richmond Terrace. Meanwhile, advocates of a light rail on Staten Island's west shore need $5 million and a transit agency to do an official analysis to get the project moving.

"Staten Island is choking on cars," said Allen Cappelli, an MTA board member from the borough. "You need to create mechanisms to move lots of people more quickly."

The North Shore BRT project would be the cheapest option compared with light rail, costing more than $350 million to construct and $6.1 million to operate, according to a 2012 study. The route could have nine stops and at least 17,000 people would see commute times to the ferry cut by 25 to 50%.

It would also move people in and out of the area closest to the ferry, which will see a major development boom with construction of an outlet mall and the New York Wheel. "This is going to get cars off the road," said Linda Baran, president of the Staten Island Chamber of Commerce.

The project was going to be funded with federal money following Superstorm Sandy but concerns about qualification killed that effort. MTA spokesman Adam Lisberg said Staten Island will have to wait until its five-year capital program comes out later this month to see if the MTA will prioritize the project.

Meanwhile, the west shore is also anticipating new development and job centers that will need transit options, like a film studio, a massive 2,200-acre park on the former Freshkills landfill and a marine port and logistics center.

Steven Grillo of the Staten Island Economic Development Corporation said the north and west shore will see 9,000 new jobs from these projects.

"The West Shore Expressway is already a parking lot on any holiday, in any afternoon," he said. "How could you have these major projects and not have real world transportation solutions?"

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I'm not the least bit surprised the F express in Brooklyn came up in that AMNY article. And you got it in bold type. Not surprised to see Rockaway Branch restoration for Queens in the article either.

 

This should make for an interesting discussion...

[Union Tpke]

I'm not the least bit surprised the F express in Brooklyn came up in that AMNY article. And you got it in bold type. Not surprised to see Rockaway Branch restoration for Queens in the article either.

 

This should make for an interesting discussion...

Thats the way the copying came out.

[Fresh Pond]

What savings would an express garner? Bergen St already is somewhat of a chokepoint with the and as it is now, an express would just make it even worse

[realizm]

Yup. The Bergen Street interlocking, also Church.

 

I wanted to build on that point by stating that the F express will never ever happen since the V is out of commission. Lets say the budget cuts of 2010 never happened- The V was causing congestion at 2nd Avenue as it occupies switches causing a back up resulting in delays on the F. The MTA therefore was considering bringing the V down to Church Ave, problem solved. But then the doomsday cuts had to mess up everything.

 

On top of that we experienced growth in the neighborhoods the Culver Viaduct serves, so having an F express by itself with no supplemental service to Manhattan will accomplish nothing.

 

Well we have the M now on the QBL and it turned out to be a hit because of growth in northern Brooklyn and by extension East NY. So the final nail is in the coffin for the V unless some extraordinary happens. 

 

There's even more reasons as to why the F express while cool in itself is not practical. Those middle tracks? Well they were supposed to be linked to a Ft Hamilton Pkwy Line that would have brought people from Staten Island according to IND Second System plans. That's exactly why the Bergen Street flying junction was built the way it was.

 

Man this is such a beat a dead horse subject... makes you wonder why reporters in the media failed to see this...

[N6 Limited]

What savings would an express garner? Bergen St already is somewhat of a chokepoint with the and as it is now, an express would just make it even worse

Not if they reopen the lower level. Or they can just convert some trains into trains. Maybe they can reduce run time if the trains went Hillside Express as well.

 

 

 

 

There's even more reasons as to why the F express while cool in itself is not practical. Those middle tracks? Well they were supposed to be linked to a Ft Hamilton Pkwy Line that would have brought people from Staten Island according to IND Second System plans. That's exactly why the Bergen Street flying junction was built the way it was.

 

Man this is such a beat a dead horse subject... makes you wonder why reporters in the media failed to see this...

Kill two birds with one stone. Send the to Coney Island and the to Staten Island via Ft Hamilton parkway. 

[B35 via Church]

BROOKLYN

 

Riders who live off the F line have been eager to see a return of an express train in Brooklyn, but the idea has never gained enough traction....

Yeah, because a culver express wouldn't benefit the main sect of riders that are the most vocal when it comes to the train - Park Slopers & Carroll Gardens residents!

[realizm]

Bingo.

 

Thats exactly why it would have been ideal to run the V to Brooklyn as a supplemental local Manhattan-centric service to 6th Avenue justifying the F express with G local service, (Aside from relief from congestion at 2nd Ave that the V caused by terminating there vs simply running to Church Ave) but again as mentioned the doomsday cut killed it.  Theres some infrastructure issues with the Bergen Street interlocking as well as was mentioned before. Since the flying junction was designed to send strictly express trains to Manhattan without the need to switch tracks not the other way around.

[biGC323232]

I think they should run the few King Hwy  Trains Express...That to me would be a test in ridership...

[Tokkemon]

 

Kill two birds with one stone. Send the to Coney Island and the to Staten Island via Ft Hamilton parkway. 

 

I've been a long-time proponent of a Fort Hamilton Parkway line. Even a light rail solution would be better than nothing at all. This would plug a lot of the holes in transit in Southern Brooklyn.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think it's time for the to stop making excuses and step up to the plate and start lobbying to get more funds for new projects. I mean how many more years are they going to use these arguments that oh we can't do this because of that?  The subway system is growing and they need to address the growth by developing NEW transportation alternatives instead of trying to duck and dodge their responsibility, which is to get more people moving faster in this city.  We don't need to hear about all of logistics.  Get to the damn table and start looking at ways to improve the system.  Some of the improvements can't happen for years, but they need to get on the ball and start studying ways to move more people quicker because the system is becoming overburdened and it simply cannot remain this way.  In order to avoid the traffic mess this week, I decided to take the train to work. I took the Bx20 from along the Henry Hudson Parkway which was a decent ride, but the train was a sardine can all the way until 59th street, and this was not during the height of rush hour either.  The system is at capacity and riders needs must be met with short term solutions and long term ones.

[realizm]

I've been a long-time proponent of a Fort Hamilton Parkway line. Even a light rail solution would be better than nothing at all. This would plug a lot of the holes in transit in Southern Brooklyn.

 

Yes, in general a subway line as such from the IND Second System plans or Dual Contracts plans with a SI tunnel should have been built. Its too bad many New York politicians of that time opposed it. Indeed due the history where it came to planning in regards to 4th Avenue or the Culver Vaduct ruly it replaces the Second Avenue Subway as the line that time forgot.

 

This is what I meant by the fact that the Bergen Street interlocking and the Culver Viaduct was designed to send trains from SI into Manhattan. The way the line was built as a four track line with a flying junction it would isolate express trains heading for Rutgers while accommodating local service. The strange thing about this though is that it seems the provision for it lies at Church Avenue and not Ft Hamilton Parkway as far as I know, which is contrary to where the Ft Hamilton Pkwy subway was supposed to begin from the Culver Viaduct according to the maps from the IND.

 

Now that I think about it, maybe Church Avenue as an express station with descending tail tracks did make sense during that time as opposed to today because the area and along McDonald Avenue was very busy back then as a former manufacturing sector, which was why there used to be ex-BMT Culver El express service to CI which lasted until practically 1980 even after the D/F terminal swap with the completed construction of the Christie Street connection under the MTA as seen below in the 1979 map. 

 

Perhaps the IND anticipated expansion of the now former manufacturing sector in this area.

 

Credits: Brighton Local, NYCTF

 

Credits: Wikipedia

 

Credits: Ben Kabek, Second Avenue Sagas

[bobtehpanda]

I think it's time for the to stop making excuses and step up to the plate and start lobbying to get more funds for new projects. I mean how many more years are they going to use these arguments that oh we can't do this because of that?  The subway system is growing and they need to address the growth by developing NEW transportation alternatives instead of trying to duck and dodge their responsibility, which is to get more people moving faster in this city.  We don't need to hear about all of logistics.  Get to the damn table and start looking at ways to improve the system.  Some of the improvements can't happen for years, but they need to get on the ball and start studying ways to move more people quicker because the system is becoming overburdened and it simply cannot remain this way.  In order to avoid the traffic mess this week, I decided to take the train to work. I took the Bx20 from along the Henry Hudson Parkway which was a decent ride, but the train was a sardine can all the way until 59th street, and this was not during the height of rush hour either.  The system is at capacity and riders needs must be met with short term solutions and long term ones.

 

Well, the next 5 year capital plan is coming out, and that's not even remotely close to fully funded, so we'll see how that goes first since it includes starting SAS Phase II, installing the CBTC on Queens Blvd, ESA, etc.

 

While it seems like MTA is not doing enough, in reality the pure size of ESA and SAS alone is going to crowd out other projects barring a regional (or even city) sales tax to finance construction, or a significant increase in the federal transportation pie, or congestion pricing. LA is building out $40B of expansion using a penny sales tax in just LA proper, so it's not completely far-fetched or unreasonable to think that New York could do something similar.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, the next 5 year capital plan is coming out, and that's not even remotely close to fully funded, so we'll see how that goes first since it includes starting SAS Phase II, installing the CBTC on Queens Blvd, ESA, etc.

 

While it seems like MTA is not doing enough, in reality the pure size of ESA and SAS alone is going to crowd out other projects barring a regional (or even city) sales tax to finance construction, or a significant increase in the federal transportation pie, or congestion pricing. LA is building out $40B of expansion using a penny sales tax in just LA proper, so it's not completely far-fetched or unreasonable to think that New York could do something similar.

The fact of the matter is they aren't and these SBS routes certainly aren't the answer either, not long term anyway.  I'm curious to know what they're going to do with the money that they budgeted for the line that wasn't needed? Where is that money going? 

[realizm]

The fact of the matter is they aren't and these SBS routes certainly aren't the answer either, not long term anyway.  I'm curious to know what they're going to do with the money that they budgeted for the line that wasn't needed? Where is that money going? 

 

While I agree that its always good to promote subway or surface transit expansion and enhancements, I will have remind you that the Montague Street tunnel was incredibly damaged due to saltwater corrosion from Superstorm Sandy. This is why federal tax dollars was used to repair the tunnels and restore R service.

 

If the tunnels were not repaired the damage saltwater corrosion could have caused to the power lines, rails, signals, concrete walls and the iron cast rings itself would become irreversible.

 

The R is certainly needed in all 3 boroughs that it serves. Restoration of weekday triborough service was a matter of urgency and importance.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

While I agree that its always good to promote subway or surface transit expansion and enhancements, I will have remind you that the Montague Street tunnel was incredibly damaged due to saltwater corrosion from Superstorm Sandy. This is why federal tax dollars was used to repair the tunnels and restore R service.

 

If the tunnels were not repaired the damage saltwater corrosion could have caused to the power lines, rails, signals, concrete walls and the iron cast rings itself would become irreversible.

 

The R is certainly needed in all 3 boroughs that it serves. Restoration of weekday triborough service was a matter of urgency and importance.

I don't know what this has to do with what I asked, which was where is the money that they didn't use going....

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I'd like to see NYC do something similar to LA's penny-sales tax that's going to fund mass transit projects, not just in Los Angeles proper, but all over LA County. But does NYC legally have the power to pass a Measure R-type of funding like they did in LA? Would be great if they can.

[CenSin]

Yes, in general a subway line as such from the IND Second System plans or Dual Contracts plans with a SI tunnel should have been built. Its too bad many New York politicians of that time opposed it. Indeed due the history where it came to planning in regards to 4th Avenue or the Culver Vaduct ruly it replaces the Second Avenue Subway as the line that time forgot.

 

This is what I meant by the fact that the Bergen Street interlocking and the Culver Viaduct was designed to send trains from SI into Manhattan. The way the line was built as a four track line with a flying junction it would isolate express trains heading for Rutgers while accommodating local service. The strange thing about this though is that it seems the provision for it lies at Church Avenue and not Ft Hamilton Parkway as far as I know, which is contrary to where the Ft Hamilton Pkwy subway was supposed to begin from the Culver Viaduct according to the maps from the IND.

 

Now that I think about it, maybe Church Avenue as an express station with descending tail tracks did make sense during that time as opposed to today because the area and along McDonald Avenue was very busy back then as a former manufacturing sector, which was why there used to be ex-BMT Culver El express service to CI which lasted until practically 1980 even after the D/F terminal swap with the completed construction of the Christie Street connection under the MTA as seen below in the 1979 map. 

 

Perhaps the IND anticipated expansion of the now former manufacturing sector in this area.

 

Credits: Brighton Local, NYCTF

 

Credits: Wikipedia

 

Credits: Ben Kabek, Second Avenue Sagas

It makes more sense to connect the Staten Island line from south of Church Avenue. Such an extension would make Church Avenue more like 59 Street–Colombus Circle with the wye merging connecting trains from the branch to the mainline express and local tracks. Passengers would have the flexibility of making transfers at the first available station instead of taking a long trip express to 7 Avenue.

 

As Queens Plaza and 21 Street–Queensbridge has shown us, a connection in the middle of an express run is not very convenient to passengers or operationally sensible. Trains now have to slow down for the junction immediately west of 36 Street.

[Lance]

I think it's time for the to stop making excuses and step up to the plate and start lobbying to get more funds for new projects. I mean how many more years are they going to use these arguments that oh we can't do this because of that?  The subway system is growing and they need to address the growth by developing NEW transportation alternatives instead of trying to duck and dodge their responsibility, which is to get more people moving faster in this city.  We don't need to hear about all of logistics.  Get to the damn table and start looking at ways to improve the system.  Some of the improvements can't happen for years, but they need to get on the ball and start studying ways to move more people quicker because the system is becoming overburdened and it simply cannot remain this way.  In order to avoid the traffic mess this week, I decided to take the train to work. I took the Bx20 from along the Henry Hudson Parkway which was a decent ride, but the train was a sardine can all the way until 59th street, and this was not during the height of rush hour either.  The system is at capacity and riders needs must be met with short term solutions and long term ones.

I agree with you on that and I also feel that the subway should be expanded to meet the current demands and not those of yesteryear. The problem as you alluded to is funding. Or the lack of it to be precise. Yeah, there needs to be a push for better service from the agency, but there also needs to be willpower from our elected officials to actually commit to these desperately needed expansions and improvements. Lobbying only gets you so far and if the politicians are not budging on actually funding these things, it means very little.

[realizm]

I don't know what this has to do with what I asked, which was where is the money that they didn't use going....

 

You brought up the R and I explained it to you with a helpful link that you may refer to for more information. Feel free to go back to the post you quoted for more details in case you missed something.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree with you on that and I also feel that the subway should be expanded to meet the current demands and not those of yesteryear. The problem as you alluded to is funding. Or the lack of it to be precise. Yeah, there needs to be a push for better service from the agency, but there also needs to be willpower from our elected officials to actually commit to these desperately needed expansions and improvements. Lobbying only gets you so far and if the politicians are not budging on actually funding these things, it means very little.

On that end on the spectrum the needs to continue to do more to get its fiscal house in order.  It's hard to convince politicians to give more money if projects keep coming in over budget.  That construction project is one of the few success stories on the construction side of things.  Just about everything else has come in over budget and late.  These things need to get done without the use of "unlimited" budgets.

[realizm]

It makes more sense to connect the Staten Island line from south of Church Avenue. Such an extension would make Church Avenue more like 59 Street–Colombus Circle with the wye merging connecting trains from the branch to the mainline express and local tracks. Passengers would have the flexibility of making transfers at the first available station instead of taking a long trip express to 7 Avenue.

 

As Queens Plaza and 21 Street–Queensbridge has shown us, a connection in the middle of an express run is not very convenient to passengers or operationally sensible. Trains now have to slow down for the junction immediately west of 36 Street.

 

Exactly my thoughts which is why I am not clear on why the IND Second System map was drawn like that. I'm even wondering if either plans changed during construction, enviormental studies they have done or if we are actually looking at an error. Always wondered about why the map shows as the Ft Hamilton line as diverging from Ft Hamilton Pkwy station when we have tail tracks at Church Avenue.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You brought up the R and I explained it to you with a helpful link that you may refer to for more information. Feel free to go back to the post you quoted for more details in case you missed something.

Right I read it... Says the project came in $60 million under budget and I was asking what will be done with that money....

[realizm]

Right I read it... Says the project came in $60 million under budget and I was asking what will be done with that money....

 

Well in that case then its possible that we must have hit cost overuns due to a delay in the projected opening date. Even as we saw a supposed early reopening of the tubes, in reality the project was still late. As it was supposed to reopen in late August.

 

If not that then we will have to conclude that the money was mishandled which I would not rule out either.

[Roadcruiser1]

The has to stop looking into our Government for money, and needs to fund itself. The Government is horrible at providing funding. If I was the head of the I did look into real estate, and advertising like the Port Authority of New York, and New Jersey. A good example is the Sunnyside Yard. I did deck it over, and build a World Trade Center style complex, and lease it out. That did provide the with stable financing. It won't have to be dependent on the Government anymore.....