Alternate Subway

[TheNewYorkElevated]

I have a pretty interesting idea; an alternate subway thread. It is a what if scenario where forgotten proposals and subway lines (as well as the SAS, and IND Second System) actually became a reality, minus the events in the world that didn't take place. 

 

Rules

Make sure it is a real proposal, not a fake one, or one that you made up.

Limited foaming

Also make sure you adjust the subway services too. This also includes how the alternate event would affect NYC today.

 

I'll start mine.

 

The Great Depression and WWII didn't happen, so the IND Second System gets the green light to build up all of its planned extensions, expecting full completion by the late 1940's. It is the biggest subway project ever in New York City's history

 

Now, post how service would be if the IND Second System would be serving NYC in the present day.

 

 

[Brooklyn]

I will assume you're talking about the 1939 IND plan?

 

Here's what I definitely see happening:

 

The Morningside Av line will probably take passengers from the 8th avenue line. The Utica Avenue line will also draw passengers from the Fulton st line. The A and C trains won't be as important as they are now for Brooklyn and Manhattan residents.

 

But the Fulton st line will be extremely important for South Eastern Queens, with the extension.

 

Bottom line, what is now the A and C lines will look completely different.

[Fresh Pond]

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what the subway proposals thread is for...

[peacemak3r]

No, I think he wants to have another 'What-if' thread with scenarios that would have to alter lines if occurred while using plans that never happened. I think.

[MysteriousBtrain]

The Great Depression and WWII didn't happen, so the IND Second System gets the green light to build up all of its planned extensions, expecting full completion by the late 1940's. It is the biggest subway project ever in New York City's history

 

Now, post how service would be if the IND Second System would be serving NYC in the present day.

 

Well, almost EVERYTHING would be different. For starters, I will use the IRT:

 

: Unchanged

 

: Extended from Brooklyn College to Voorhies Avenue; all local stops in Brooklyn

 

: Extended from 145 street to Bedford Park Blvd, rush hours to Woodlawn, late nights between 167 street and Times Square.

 

: Express service between 167 street and Bedford Park Blvd when the is extended to Woodlawn.

 

: Extended to Voorhies Avenue, making express stops between Franklin Avenue and Voorhies Avenue, including Church Avenue, Flatbush Avenue, Kings Highway, and Avenue U. also rerouted on the express to hunts point, then all nywbrr stops to Dyre Avenue, late nights and weekends to South Ferry.

 

: no express service, replaced by .

 

: Local to College Point,  express to Bell Boulevard and renamed the 9.

 

8 :Replaces the to Nereid Avenue, runs between Nereid Avenue and South Ferry via Lexington Avenue and 3 Avenue Local. Late nights and weekends, to Brooklyn Bridge.

 

 9: Renamed express.

 

BMT/IND coming soon

[MysteriousBtrain]

: Uses the new Fulton Street line to Cross Bay Blvd, then nonstop to Howard beach. All stops after Howard Beach. Non rush hours, it stops at 155 street and 163 street.

 

:  Runs rush hours on the CPW,  6 Avenue, and Utica Avenue lines. runs between 168 Street and Avenue U via CPW local, 6 Avenue express, and Utica Avenue express.

 

: Runs between Bedford Park Blvd and Avenue U at all times except late nights. All local stops.

 

: Runs between Gun Hill Road and Avenue U. Runs express on the CPW, 6 Avenue, and Utica Avenue lines at all times.

: Runs between Rockaway Blvd and Avenue U at all times. All local stops in Brooklyn.

: Between Little Neck Parkway and Coney Island. All stops east of 179 Street, express stops west of 179 Street, and runs via 53 Street. Late nights, all local stops. Express stops on the culver line north of Church Avenue.

 

: Runs between 179 Street and St George via the Fort Hamilton Line at all times. All local stops.
 

: Runs between Rockaway Park and 86 Street via the Rockaway, Queens blvd, 79 Street, 6 avenue, Culver, and ft Hamilton local at all times.

 

:Runs between 168 Street and Broad Street at all times. Runs express between Broadway Junction and Delancey Street in the Peak Direction.

 

 : Between 229 Street and 125 street via Fulton Street and 2 Avenue local.

 

: Unchanged

 

:Runs between Metropolitan Avenue and Coney Island Weekdays only. runs express on the Brighton line.

 

: Runs between Marathon Pkwy and Coney island via the Broadway and Long Island express. Late nights, to 36 street.

 

O: renamed MJ train between Metropolitan Avenue and Harding Avenue via 2 Avenue express and Myrtle Avenue and Throgs Neck local. 

 

:Runs between Coney island and Queensboro plaza at all times. Late nights, it runs local and via the Montague st tunnel.

 

:Runs between Marathon Pkwy and Bay Ridge at all times. All local stops.

 

: Runs between Coney Island and 145 Street via the West End, Montague, Broadway, and Morningside local. Runs at all times.

 

U : Runs between Lefferts Blvd and Chambers Street via Nassau, Jamaica, and Liberty local. Late nights to Broadway Junction.

 

Now for the shuttles:

 

42 Street: Unchanged

 

Franklin Avenue: Unchanged

 

Rockaway: Morphed into the

 

Culver: Between 9 Avenue and Ditmas Avenue

 

Astoria: Between Ditmars Blvd and 2 Avenue-60 Street. Connects with the 9 O U lines.

 

[Kamen Rider]

We already have the subway "what If" thread and the subway proposals, why do we need this?

[MTA Dude]

We already have the subway "what If" thread and the subway proposals, why do we need this?

 

It is for lines that never happened and so what will happen if they came to life.

[Quill Depot]

Foam proposals usually get shot down in either thread so I guess this is a good place for it.

[GojiMet86]

Basically, a fantasy thread.

[bobtehpanda]

In 1968, two years after John Lindsay loses his battle in the transit strike of 1966, the city sags from the weight of both pensions and construction debt, and the MTA prepares to shut down much of the Second System or lines running parallel to it due to declining ridership and excessive costs. In addition, due to the lack of available money, the 1968 Program for Action is never created, and we never see the 63rd St tunnel, Queens Blvd Bypass, Third Av El replacement in the Bronx, or the extension along the to Canarsie. Queens riders are even more upset due to the lack of attention the MTA pays to the borough, and there is talk of SI downright leaving the City and the TA service area due to the tolls and lack of subway expansion, since most of the Second System was in the Bronx, Manhattan, and Brooklyn.

 

Keep in mind that there are two sides to every coin, and changing the future has very real consequences :3

[peacemak3r]

Basically, a fantasy thread.

 

Basically a fantasy version of the "What-if" thread.

[MTA Dude]

JSYK, I'm getting out because I'm not too good at history.

[MysteriousBtrain]

I like thinking about alternate routes so......

 

The IRT is unchanged, except the 8 train or 3 Avenue el existing and the extension not happening.

 

: Unchanged

 

: 168 Street - Coney island rush hours via the West End line.. non rush hour service to 57 Street, Late nights to 36 Street.

 

: Bedford Park Blvd to Euclid Avenue rush hours. non rush hour service unchanged.

 

: Norwood to Coney island via the Brighton line. Weekdays, runs express in Brooklyn. Other times, all local stops.

: WTC to Jamaica - 179 Street making ALL express stops except late nights.

: Normal route via 53 street. Late nights, ends at 57 Street - 6th Avenue.

 

: Church Avenue to Forest Hills at all times.

 

: Bay Ridge - 95 Street to Jamaica - 168 Street at all times. Runs express peak direction Marcy avenue to Broadway Junction.

 

: 57 Street to Jamaica - 168 Street or Broadway Junction rush hours only.

 

: Unchanged

 

: Metropolitan Avenue to Coney island Via Brighton Express rush hours only.

 

: all express stops to Astoria except late nights.

 

: Ends at 57 street and runs weekdays only.

 

: Unchanged, except late night service merged into the .

 

(U) : renamed MJ train.

 

All shuttles remain unchanged.

[TrainFanInfinity]

One link.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_expansion_of_the_New_York_City_Subway

[Quill Depot]

Alternative History:

 

"The Blitz" of New York

 

In September 1941, one year after London's "The Blitz" arrogant leader Adolf Hitler decides to take his power across the Atlantic, and demonstrate the the US his power. Luftwaffe bombers arrive in New York ready to tear up the streets. The city is in absolute chaos, bombs dropping all over Manhattan. Prepared for defense, Floyd Bennet's finest fly out with wonderful Boeing P26's and take down the enemy's. Although the response time was quick, it was not fast enough and most of lower manhattan's subway is destroyed along with the Manhattan Bridge, most of which was never rebuilt. The subways are as follows today:

 

Christie St Connection: Never built

The Cranberry Tubes are destroyed

8th Avenue Line, ends at the rebuilt WTC, meanwhile the Fulton Line connects to the , and the replaces Fulton Express and also runs 6th Av Local

The (AA) runs from WTC to Bedford Pk Blvd/145th local. The <A> runs from 205th to WTC express

The runs from Transit Museum to Euclid Fulton Local

Shuttles run in the Rockaway's

The runs from WTC to 71st when the runs express during rush

 

The Montague Tubes are rebuilt, but the Manhattan Bridge is never.

 

/ thru tubes and Brighton Express

Fulton Shuttle is made to 8 car platforms and the runs thru the Shuttle down via Brighton Local to Coney Island.

 

runs as a split between West End and Sea Beach via Tunnel, lots of service

(WW) trains run from Astoria to 95th, local

The replaces the as the connection is never built between the BMT and IND

trains run from Bronx to Coney Island, via Culver Express, running on the lower level of the tube, which opened in 1967. The runs local to Culver

The (BB) runs from W4 to 207, but 168th when the <A> runs

 

trains run to Bowling Green on a new side platform, thru the Loop

trains do not run in Brooklyn but run instead to Bowling Green, thru the Loop, the tunnel was destroyed

trains end at 42nd St, and 7th Av local

The Lex tunnel was restored. The runs to New Lots via Local in Brooklyn

The runs to Flatbush, express

The runs to Flatbush as well but terminates in Brooklyn via local on the tracks to the tube

 

Sorry if it's sloppy

[peacemak3r]

The funniest thing is, none of you are getting at what this thread was suppose to be.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

New rules to keep this thread going (as of now)

 

You can imagine any alternate event you want from now and on. You can even be creative too if you want.

 

However though, these rules remain in effect...

 

Limited foaming

 

and

 

making sure you adjust subway service. Remember, this would also include how the alternate event effects NYC today.

 

Here's another one...

 

The 3rd Avenue El in Manhattan (plus the section that leads to South Ferry) is not torn down, and remains standing due to passenger demand. Today, the el serves over 60,000 riders daily between South Ferry and Gun Hill Road. On rush hours, the line goes to Wakefield-241st Street as a local or express with the  and  .

[Javier]

The old line used to have 4 tracks if I'm not mistaken?

[ConcourseExp]

Well, almost EVERYTHING would be different. For starters, I will use the IRT:

 

: Unchanged

 

: Extended from Brooklyn College to Voorhies Avenue; all local stops in Brooklyn

 

: Extended from 145 street to Bedford Park Blvd, rush hours to Woodlawn, late nights between 167 street and Times Square.

 

: Express service between 167 street and Bedford Park Blvd when the is extended to Woodlawn.

 

: Extended to Voorhies Avenue, making express stops between Franklin Avenue and Voorhies Avenue, including Church Avenue, Flatbush Avenue, Kings Highway, and Avenue U. also rerouted on the express to hunts point, then all nywbrr stops to Dyre Avenue, late nights and weekends to South Ferry.

 

: no express service, replaced by .

 

: Local to College Point,  express to Bell Boulevard and renamed the 9.

 

8 :Replaces the to Nereid Avenue, runs between Nereid Avenue and South Ferry via Lexington Avenue and 3 Avenue Local. Late nights and weekends, to Brooklyn Bridge.

 

 9: Renamed express.

 

BMT/IND coming soon

I don't like the idea of the Train going express after 167 Street. There is already a service from 167 Street to Burnside Aveune. I love the concept, but the is better starting express at 149 St or Burnside Ave.