Staten Island Railroad/Subway Proposal Thread

[MysteriousBtrain]

Obviously, Staten Island is not as loved as the other boroughs, so what would happen if there was more than one railroad in use on Staten Island? Imo, the island should keep the Main line, revive the North Shore line, and add two north-south subway lines. I don't know where I would put the subway lines, but when I come up with an idea for the subway, I will let everyone know.

[1995 Orion V CNG]

Obviously, Staten Island is not as loved as the other boroughs, so what would happen if there was more than one railroad in use on Staten Island? Imo, the island should keep the Main line, revive the North Shore line, and add two north-south subway lines. I don't know where I would put the subway lines, but when I come up with an idea for the subway, I will let everyone know.

I dunno, maybe you could put them on the western side of the island? But in order to do that, they'd need more cars and SIR can't afford that at this time (neither can NYCT for that matter). 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

There's already a thread for this...

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/24490-subway-proposalsideas-thread/

[ConcourseExp]

Obviously, Staten Island is not as loved as the other boroughs, so what would happen if there was more than one railroad in use on Staten Island? Imo, the island should keep the Main line, revive the North Shore line, and add two north-south subway lines. I don't know where I would put the subway lines, but when I come up with an idea for the subway, I will let everyone know.

Extend it to Travis. The place is a mess with the S46/96 service.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Extend it to Travis. The place is a mess with the S46/96 service.

According to Google Maps, there might be tracks for the North Shore line to use..... 

[Xfer2Nowhere]

I doubt Travis would accept it. NIMBYism is out of control there. But we could give it a shot.

 

The West Shore and North Shore projects should be combined. The West Shore project should be a phase 2 of the North Shore project. I think the EDC had also considered a BRT on the 440 corridor as a possibility. It should be one ROW from St George via Arlington and West Shore Plaza, down to Veterans Road/Bricktown Mall, then via local streets to Richmond Valley station.

 

Mixed-use BRT/LRT ROW, like the Seattle Transit Tunnel, should also be considered for the West Shore if the HBLR extension is ever floated again (which I highly doubt will ever get finished due to political barriers and PA incompetence).

 

This would be the most efficient and cost-effective solution to finally completing a rapid transit loop around Staten Island.

[ConcourseExp]

I doubt Travis would accept it. NIMBYism is out of control there. But we could give it a shot.

 

The West Shore and North Shore projects should be combined. The West Shore project should be a phase 2 of the North Shore project. I think the EDC had also considered a BRT on the 440 corridor as a possibility.

 

Mixed-use BRT/LRT ROW, like the Seattle Transit Tunnel, should also be considered for the West Shore if the HBLR extension is ever floated again (which I highly doubt will ever get finished due to political barriers and PA incompetence).

I was actually thinking about the North Shore Line to follow the route to the Staten Island Mall. Or maybe a circle to Great Kills.

[Xfer2Nowhere]

I was actually thinking about the North Shore Line to follow the route to the Staten Island Mall. Or maybe a circle to Great Kills.

That would be good for an S89 SBS. An S89 SBS makes much more sense than the S79 SBS, as it would provide a full-time link to NJ, and put more of those red bus lanes where there actually is room for them. Not to mention the benefits of also speeding up the S44/94, S59, X10, and X17 also using Richmond Avenue.

[MysteriousBtrain]

That would be good for an S89 SBS. An S89 SBS makes much more sense than the S79 SBS, as it would provide a full-time link to NJ, and put more of those red bus lanes where there actually is room for them. Not to mention the benefits of also speeding up the S44/94, S59, X10, and X17 also using Richmond Avenue.

The S89 runs rush hours only (unless the hours are expanded to 7 days a week like a normal route, but will NJ allow it?)

[161 New York]

That would be good for an S89 SBS. An S89 SBS makes much more sense than the S79 SBS, as it would provide a full-time link to NJ, and put more of those red bus lanes where there actually is room for them. Not to mention the benefits of also speeding up the S44/94, S59, X10, and X17 also using Richmond Avenue.

IMO, the s89 LTD runs well in its current format. Between Victory Blvd and Richmond Hill Road (by the Mall), the buses run fine. I would love for there to be an express bus (either MTA or Academy which would take Metrocards) between downtown Jersey City and Staten Island.

 

In defense of the s79 SBS the bus runs great between SI Mall/Eltingville Transit Center and 86 St in Bay Ridge. It would be nice if it ran all night.

 

The S89 runs rush hours only (unless the hours are expanded to 7 days a week like a normal route, but will NJ allow it?)

The s59 has been recently expanded, to about 20 minutes headways during Saturday & Sunday during the day. A much needed improvement.

 

I have reservations about expanding the s89. I'm sure NJT would have no problem with expanding the service as they would benefit from any HBLR usage. You can read my opinion of the s89 service from my prior post here:

 

 

4) Regarding connections to Jersey City and Hudson County:

       a) Despite the s89 and tolls and PAID parking, the parking lot of cars parked at the 34st HBLR (& 22nd Street HBLR) station are full of NY plates.

       b) The s89 hits three park and rides (two actual and one defacto(right before the bridge)). Most people going to JC/Hudson Co are driving  to some point. Any other riders who XFER are feeding from existing E/W N/S routes, ie s78, s74, s61, s62, s48, s44 etc. With that, and having used the s89 at some point during at all hours, only the buses during the peak period are moderately full, but no where near crushloads. Buses from 34 St HBLR after 18:00-18:30, almost everyone can get a seat. It is my observation that the s89 overall ridership is primarily intra-SI trips or at very most 50/50 interstate.

       c) Surprisingly there is a respectable amount of traffic of people (10-15 observed on several buses at various times) going from NJ to SI in the AM hours and people going to NJ from SI in the PM hours on some runs, though many times I have been the only passenger. Also when the walkway at the Bayonne Br. was opened, I encountered a few hearty souls treking over the bridge that were not runners/walkers. However, it is my opinion as stated many times here that perhaps   NJT should extend the 10 or maybe the 81 on some runs to Forest/Richmond one stop. Trust me, I would use it.

See: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/46411-north-shore-rail-line-to-arthur-kill/?p=803474

 

Also keep in mind that due to the construction on the Bayonne Bridge, there have been many full day closures on weekends. So, we won't see anything anytime soon.

[MysteriousBtrain]

So I'm working on the fantasy subway and railroad lines for SI on google maps. It is not finished yet but here is a preview:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=ziKqTmehmu9g.k5bLN4xWXHg0

Is there anything I need to change?

[qjtransitmaster]

That would be good for an S89 SBS. An S89 SBS makes much more sense than the S79 SBS, as it would provide a full-time link to NJ, and put more of those red bus lanes where there actually is room for them. Not to mention the benefits of also speeding up the S44/94, S59, X10, and X17 also using Richmond Avenue.

Richmond Avenue already has red bus lanes.

[Union Tpke]

So I'm working on the fantasy subway and railroad lines for SI on google maps. It is not finished yet but here is a preview:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=ziKqTmehmu9g.k5bLN4xWXHg0

Is there anything I need to change?

It's good, but there would be problems with the FRA, so I would make it part of a regional rail plan.

[GGTrain]

I am currently coming up with a detailed plan for Staten Island. I believe it's quite ingenious as I am using scribble maps to snake the routes through neighborhoods. The assumption is that these routes were built from the time frame when they were proposed in the years before WWII. Additional routes were added after WWII. The point here is that non underground routes may be in place of existing residential structures. It also assumes that Staten Island is more urban in 2015 as a result of these routes. Mid and high rise development is in place on Richmond Avenue north of Arthur Kill Road. The mall complex exists at its current location. Travis and Mariners Harbor have a mix of row houses and newer high risers. The Saint George area is Downtown Staten Island. The urban area along Bay Street is more organized. The Verrazano Bridge exists and was opened in 1948. The Richmond Parkway, Willowbrook Parkway, and Shore Front Parkway are built as originally proposed. South Beach and Midland Beach are destination hot spots. High risers stretch from the Verrazano Bridge south to New Dorp Beach. The hills of Staten Island retain their exclusivity and the area south of New Dorp to Tottenville retains its suburban nature albeit a little denser than what it is currently. There are NO wetlands designations or ridiculous parklands to preserve woodlands that nobody uses. And lastly NO Gateway National Park. The 2015 population is 1,250,000.

 

The connection to the subway system implies 2 tunnels to Brooklyn. The first is the existing proposal from 67th Street and Owls Head Park to Tompkinsville, Staten Island. There is the original proposal to connect to the 4th Avenue subway as well as a connection to the Triboro RX. The other is a longer tunnel from Saint George to Red Hook Brooklyn. The longer tunnel anchors Governors Island as a fast route to Manhattan and connecting to the original 2nd Avenue subway originating on Water Street. It also extends to the Smith Street IND subway for quick connections from Staten Island to the 6th and 8th Avenue subways and the crosstown subway to Queens.

 

On Staten Island the North Shore SIRT is disconnected from the subway and used entirely as freight. Subways connect to the tunnels and run along a route on Castleton Avenue west to Forest Avenue along Port Richmond Avenue and then along Forest Avenue ending in Mariners Harbor at South Avenue. This route uses the IND Crosstown line and the Triboro RX. The second route runs along Victory Blvd and ends at Travis Avenue. This route uses the IND 6th Avenue line and runs as a subway to Willowbrook road. It exists the tunnel and runs open cut from Willowbrook Road to Travis. Another route uses the existing South Shore SIRT from Stapleton to Tottenville. North of Stapleton the route enters a tunnel. The current Tompkinsville Station and Saint George Terminal are diaconnected from tge subway system and are part of the North Shore freight system. Two lines use this route and the existing right of way is expanded to 4 tracks south to Great Kills. These lines are the new 2nd Avenue Express which runs from Tottenville to 125th Street and Broadway in Manhattan. This runs as an express. The other line is the extension of the BMT 4th Avenue line which terminates in Great Kills. This runs as a local. Another route replaces the South Beach SIRT and enters a subway along Bay Street continuing along Lily Pond Avenue exiting the tunnel at the start of Capodanno Blvd and running as Staten Island's only true elevated line to Lincoln Avenue where it then runs at street level to Ebbitts Street New Dorp. This line operates as a shuttle to Bay Street Clifton except for rush hours when some 2nd Avenue Trains run along this route. Finally the Triboro RX branches off Forest Avenue and Richmond Avenue to run along Richmond Avenue to meet up with the 2nd Avenue line in Eltingville on the SIRT right of way. This line exits the tunnel and runs along a median on Richmond Avenue up to just north of the Fresh Kills Bridge. At that point it runs on a berm east of Richmond Avenue and ends up in Eltingville.

 

Train yards exist in New Dorp Beach, Tottenville, and Travis.

 

This is quite complex and was given a lot of thought, leveraging current street maps as well as a knowledge of Staten Island. I would like to sometime in the future to incorporate this into BVE. I will soon be posting a number of detailed maps illustrating this design.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Might as well keep using this thread to keep showing my ideas:

http://mtanyctransitfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Staten_Island_Rapid_Transit_rolling_stock_(mtamaster_edition)

This is a list of rolling stock for my expanded Staten Island Rapid Transit based on the map I made earlier. Cars include:

The R44s. Expanded from 63 cars to 111 cars. These cars are renumbered differently and are now 100-199 and 370-381. The 300 sets were taken from NYCT. These cars would be used on the Blue (today's main) line and red (North Shore) line.

The R55s. Taken from the time the R55s evolved into R68s, these cars are very similar to the R46s and are almost the exact same car. One difference includes the traction system, which is based off of the R68s (AdTranz E-Cam Propulsion

Westinghouse 1447J motors

115 hp (85.8 kW) on all axles). Numbers are 200-279. Runs on the yellow and green lines.

R83s. Also similar to the R46s. Like the Wikipedia description, it has the R46 body and R68 controls. Exclusive to the purple line and are numbered 300-369.

All R44s are based in Clifton Yard and R55s and R83s are based in Arlington Yard. Major work on all cars are done in the Arlington Yard instead of Coney Island. All cars also have the LED destination side signs from the R44s and R46s to indicate whether a line is local or express, although all cars say if they are local or express under the terminals on their front rollsigns. As red is preserved for the north shore line, the Tottenville express is blue instead of red.

[GGTrain]

Check out my SI fantasy thread in the subway forum. I initially posted my ideas here but have since created a separate thread there. I hope to someday make some if this come to life using BVE.