news Gov. Cuomo Pitches AirTrain LaGuardia, Other Transit Improvements

[Lance]

 

Gov. Andrew Cuomo is unveiling an ambitious plan to modernize New York’s infrastructure and transportation system. Cuomo spoke Tuesday to the business group Association for a Better New York in Manhattan. He offered a preview of his annual State of the State address scheduled for Wednesday. The biggest proposal was a rail link to LaGuardia Airport, WCBS 880’s Paul Murnane reported. “You can’t get to LaGuardia by train today and that really is inexcusable,” the governor said. Cuomo proposed building an AirTrain link like the one that serves John F. Kennedy International Airport.

 

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[P3F]

 

and service there would probably be better. Half a block of Astoria being demolished is sad, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. An AirTrain would be more expensive and less effective. (Where would it even go besides the airport?)

[BronxBombers]

I think connecting it to Woodside would be better.

[2Line1291]

This is a great start but a actual subway extension to LaGuardia would help out on the long run but this is a working progress lol. I'm grateful Cuomo is acknowledging the improvements that NYC transportation infrastructure needs

and service there would probably be better. Half a block of Astoria being demolished is sad, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. An AirTrain would be more expensive and less effective. (Where would it even go besides the airport?)

Sad but true at the same time

[MysteriousBtrain]

and service there would probably be better. Half a block of Astoria being demolished is sad, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. An AirTrain would be more expensive and less effective. (Where would it even go besides the airport?)

This is a great start but a actual subway extension to LaGuardia would help out on the long run but this is a working progress lol. I'm grateful Cuomo is acknowledging the improvements that NYC transportation infrastructure needs

Sad but true at the same time

The problem with the subway is how can we create service to LGA without disturbing the residents of Astoria?

[Sparen of Iria]

I think connecting it to Woodside would be better.

NIMBY.

[2Line1291]

The problem with the subway is how can we create service to LGA without disturbing the residents of Astoria?

 

Good point. The question is as crowded as in Astoria is on weekdays, would a new subway line be justifiable to build through Astoria. This alleviates service on the Astoria Line and provides another alternative for LaGuardia travelers commuting in and out of Manhattan and elsewhere instead of the AirTrain and local/express buses

[Tokkemon]

Politics, politics, politics. I'll have more to say about it later.

[Lance]

This proposal is not perfect by any stretch, but it isn't a bad idea.

 

We'll likely never see direct subway service to/from LaGuardia. That would require either a branch off the Flushing line or an extension/branch off of the Astoria line. For the former, there simply isn't any room anywhere for such a branch. At least not without tearing up a neighborhood. The Astoria line, we've already chronicled why this is impossible several times before, but for those out of the loop, I'll repeat them for easy understanding. Looping the Astoria line to LGA from Ditmars Blvd is a non-starter. Astorians are not going to put up with nearly a mile long extension of the elevated line along Ditmars Blvd until it gets to the Grand Central Pkwy, so that's out. That leaves branching off the line at Astoria Blvd (you can't abandon the busy Ditmars Blvd station). The problem with that idea is the Hell's Gate Bridge, or specifically its approaches. Any type of rail that flanks the GCP would have to leap over the bridge approaches then dip low enough to meet height clearance requirements at the airport.

 

On the subject of an AirTrain link to Woodside, that would face similar problems. In order to avoid costly destruction of the area, it would have to run over either the Flushing line or the LIRR mainline until it hits the BQE and ride that up to LGA. With the Willets Point option, the worst of the impact would be at the Corona Yard, which would likely lose space to fit the AirTrain station, but after that, it's a straight shot to the Grand Central and the airport.

[Juelz4309]

Hats off to the gov.,man just lost his father and is pressing on with business and this is definitely long overdue business. But This Airtrain HAS to go to Woodside Instead of willets point!!!

 

This proposal Would be like Airtrain JFK Going to Far Rockaway Instead of Jamaica. I already know this would involve demolition of Several homes but unfortunately we are at a real breaking point with this issue. This is NYC and to not have some kind of rail connection to the areas 3rd MAJOR airport is rediculous at this point.

 

I google mapped the route...

 

1.West Along The G/C/P 

2.Southeast On The B/Q/E 

3.To 32 Avenue Btwn 61/62 sts 

4.Due South/Southeast for approximately 6 Blocks. 

 

You Have direct access to the 7 and ALL of the lines of the LIRR.It be 20 mins from midtown on a bad day! 

In actuality there is hope for the displaced, The pillars themselves would be high above the streets and very narrow at the base so I couldnt see why at least retail stores couldnt open under the line after construction is finished..like living under an EL line as we do now.

 

[Eric B]

I wonder if the choice to go to Willets Point via Grand Central has in mind a future extension to connect with the JFK system (which was the original idea). They don't seem to be mentioning that, but it would bring us closer to it.

[46Dover]

You'd have to rule out the Van Wyck corridor North of Jamaica (if I read correctly that one of the options was to extend the existing AirTrain from Jamaica) as you'd have to deal with the spaghetti junction that is the Van Wyck, Jackie Robinson, and the Grand Central Parkway interchange

[Eric B]

It can get through that. It's eve easier with the single column construction. It would just rise over the ovepasses, and then switch roadways, and there's plenty of space for the columns.

[Cait Sith]

Hats off to the gov.,man just lost his father and is pressing on with business and this is definitely long overdue business. But This Airtrain HAS to go to Woodside Instead of willets point!!!

 

But Woodside has the Q70.

[Tokkemon]

So here's my thought on the alignment. Obviously they chose the "easiest" in terms of political capital. They won't be "tearing up" any neighborhoods and Willets Pt, while far away, is a major station and conveniently in the middle of a blighted area where not many people are going to be sorry if a new elevated was built. However: from a transit planning perspective and looking at sheer efficiency, it's very backwards. If one was to assume a majority of traffic to LGA was coming from Manhattan, then you have to connect the line with the closest station possible. Honestly, do you think all those businessmen will suddenly up and leave with their luggage all the way to Flushing, just to backtrack half their trip to get to the airport? Hardly. I wish the would come up with a more novel idea and not deal with the PANYNJ at all. One idea of mine is to create a subway/elevated line down 21 St in Astoria, a waterfront corridor that could certainly use it and it would literally revitalize the neighborhood that's been blighted by poor access to anything. Say the line goes down 21 St, all the way to 21 Ave. It would avoid almost all the Greek NIMBYs entirely. A more Astoria-centric approach would be to turn it down Astoria Blvd and then straight to LGA over the GCT. The caviat there, of course, is that small stretch of Astoria Blvd between 21 St and 31 St that's relatively narrow. If only there was a better passage. Of course, they could do some approach magic with Hoyt Ave or even the Hells Gate line but I doubt either would be economically feasable.

 

But the alignment isn't really what annoys me the most. What's most annoying is Cuomo strutting out to Queens as if he's the savior of all transit things and proposing a mile and a half, half-billion dollar line, when NYS can't even fund the (MTA)'s capital plan. As Ben Kabak has said in the past, it isn't sexy enough for funding; a new airtrain is. 

[Brooklyn]

You Have direct access to the 7 and ALL of the lines of the LIRR.It be 20 mins from midtown on a bad day! 

 

In actuality there is hope for the displaced, The pillars themselves would be high above the streets and very narrow at the base so I couldnt see why at least retail stores couldnt open under the line after construction is finished..like living under an EL line as we do now.

 

I was thinking the same thing, but I guess you get what you can get, right?

 

I guess they figured it would be the cheapest, easiest and least disruptive way of connecting it to the subway.

 

My only issue is that you have only one subway line connection, whereas at Roosevelt avenue, you would have five--E, F, M, R and 7.

 

Oh well, again, you get what you can get.

 

Kudos to Cuomo.

[Brooklyn]

So here's my thought on the alignment. Obviously they chose the "easiest" in terms of political capital. They won't be "tearing up" any neighborhoods and Willets Pt, while far away, is a major station and conveniently in the middle of a blighted area where not many people are going to be sorry if a new elevated was built. However: from a transit planning perspective and looking at sheer efficiency, it's very backwards. If one was to assume a majority of traffic to LGA was coming from Manhattan, then you have to connect the line with the closest station possible. Honestly, do you think all those businessmen will suddenly up and leave with their luggage all the way to Flushing, just to backtrack half their trip to get to the airport? Hardly. I wish the would come up with a more novel idea and not deal with the PANYNJ at all. One idea of mine is to create a subway/elevated line down 21 St in Astoria, a waterfront corridor that could certainly use it and it would literally revitalize the neighborhood that's been blighted by poor access to anything. Say the line goes down 21 St, all the way to 21 Ave. It would avoid almost all the Greek NIMBYs entirely. A more Astoria-centric approach would be to turn it down Astoria Blvd and then straight to LGA over the GCT. The caviat there, of course, is that small stretch of Astoria Blvd between 21 St and 31 St that's relatively narrow. If only there was a better passage. Of course, they could do some approach magic with Hoyt Ave or even the Hells Gate line but I doubt either would be economically feasable.

 

But the alignment isn't really what annoys me the most. What's most annoying is Cuomo strutting out to Queens as if he's the savior of all transit things and proposing a mile and a half, half-billion dollar line, when NYS can't even fund the (MTA)'s capital plan. As Ben Kabak has said in the past, it isn't sexy enough for funding; a new airtrain is. 

Agreed with the politics...

 

About your subway proposal, sounds interesting. It would connect with (I'm assuming) the F train at Queensbridge and the E/M/G/7 at Court Square, right? That would be a somewhat long shuttle train.

 

Such a shuttle would terminate where? Queens? OR would you send it into Manhattan?

 

On a side note (not really relevant, but since you mentioned blight), a shuttle as you described would definitely change the area...I could see more multimillion dollar developments springing up. I know that for a fact, actually.

[paulrivera]

This plan might actually get done purely on the potential lack of NIMBY's in the area. I'm not sure how useful it would be if you can't fit the average person with their luggage on the train, but hopefully CBTC gives the line some added capacity there during peak hours. If they were smart, a bus line from Flushing can be sent down that way to feed Airtrain LGA some more riders as well.

 

Personally I would love to see how the Airtrain structure would fly over the Flushing el structure.

[Cait Sith]

This plan might actually get done purely on the potential lack of NIMBY's in the area. I'm not sure how useful it would be if you can't fit the average person with their luggage on the train, but hopefully CBTC gives the line some added capacity there during peak hours. If they were smart, a bus line from Flushing can be sent down that way to feed Airtrain LGA some more riders as well.

 

Personally I would love to see how the Airtrain structure would fly over the Flushing el structure.

 

That would be called the Q48.

[bobtehpanda]

There's actually another reason why the extension from Willets Point is easier. If you look on Google Maps or have driven on the Grand Central before, you'll notice that there is a runway that directly ends at the GCP. For this reason, you basically cannot build an elevated line from the west, because a clear landing path has to be kept for the runway. It makes things a lot more straightforward to go from Willets Point.

 

I wonder if it'll come with upgrading Willets Point to a regular stop on the LIRR.

[161 New York]

Here are the designs from the PDF from the website of the Governor's Office :

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is actually a good idea, as I envision using the service from Staten Island as follows, similar to how I use the LIRR to Jamaica for service to JFK:

 

x23 -> 8th Avene /34/NYP -> LIRR (Port Washington) -> Air Train -> Terminal

 

When East Side Access is completed then both East and West Midtown will have access.

 

Having flown in and out of LGA about half a dozen times, I can tell you every time going to the airport in the morning have been an absolute nail-biters with all of these combinations:

 

x23 (first run) ->  (34st/Penn) -> Jackson Heights - Roosevelt Avenue ✈ -> Q33 -> Terminal

x23 (first run) ->  (34st/Penn) -> 125 Street -> M60 -> Terminal

x23 (first run) ->     (42 Street/GCT) -> 125 Street -> M60 -> Terminal

 

I haven't used the the M60-SBS or the new Q70 yet.

[CenSin]

1. Narrow IRT trains
2. Busy Queens route
3. …and people will be travelling with their luggage to the second-to-last stop on the line

Wouldn't it make sense to get the folks off the train sooner (closer to Manhattan) rather than later?

 

The only good I see from this is that:

1. It doesn't preclude a connection to Astoria, as the line can connect to both places; trains can simply continue onward to/from Astoria after making a stop at the airport. If the Willets Point connection is as stupid as it turns out to be, it'll be a reason to make a connection to Astoria.
2. It possibly brings us one step closer to connecting LaGuardia and JFK. The distance from Willets Point to the Jamaica end of the current AirTrain is the same as the distance from Jamaica to JFK. Or they can screw up the possibility by using incompatible technology and/or structures.

[GreatOne2k]

This plan might actually get done purely on the potential lack of NIMBY's in the area. I'm not sure how useful it would be if you can't fit the average person with their luggage on the train, but hopefully CBTC gives the line some added capacity there during peak hours. If they were smart, a bus line from Flushing can be sent down that way to feed Airtrain LGA some more riders as well.

 

Personally I would love to see how the Airtrain structure would fly over the Flushing

el structure.

 

The Q50 can be extended from Flushing to cut down on transfers from the Bronx to the Airtrain.

[161 New York]

1. Narrow IRT trains
2. Busy Queens route
3. …and people will be travelling with their luggage to the second-to-last stop on the line

Wouldn't it make sense to get the folks off the train sooner (closer to Manhattan) rather than later?

 

LIRR from NYP to Jamaica  /Air Train is about 20 minutes on an express/peak train vs 45+ minutes on the  . I prefer the LIRR to/from JFK and the cost is negligble $14.50 Peak LIRR + AIrTrain vs $7.50 NYCT Subway + Airtrain (in my case $20.50 vs 11.00 including express bus to Staten Island) much less with City Ticket.

 

Depending on marketing, the Port Authority an MTA could push travelers to the LIRR instead of the   . Maybe special LIRR+Air Train tickets could be issued. Also the PA should really look at the turnstiles at JFK and have them accept punched LIRR tickets as is done in similar fashion with    NJT Newark Airport AirTrain station (either magnetic tickets, QR or Mobile).

[FamousNYLover]

After attending Anti-Fracking party, off duty Long Beach Police Officer who gave me ride to my neighborhood supermarket because she has house in Astoria.

 

She told me Airtrain LGA proposal to use Mets-Willet Point, go through Flushing Meadow Park to Grand Central Parkway into LGA Airport, so there will be no houses disturb.

 

Astoria, Sunnyside, Woodside has NIMBY.