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Cold Weather Plan


azspeedbullet

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What is the purpose and why does the express train also run local even if the express runs underground?

 

I was on a A train that keep getting stuck by a C train after the A switched to the local tracks, making the A run even slower due to train traffic ahead (that C train). Thanks MTA for the unnecessary extra delays :angry:

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In response to the local underground question, they store trains on the express tracks instead of in the yards when the cold weather plan is in effect, as underground stays a relatively moderate temperature during the winter.

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In response to the local underground question, they store trains on the express tracks instead of in the yards when the cold weather plan is in effect, as underground stays a relatively moderate temperature during the winter.

And also when there is snow in the forecast so the trains are less likely to get stuck.  This makes perfect sense even if it means no express service.

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What is the purpose and why does the express train also run local even if the express runs underground?

 

I was on a A train that keep getting stuck by a C train after the A switched to the local tracks, making the A run even slower due to train traffic ahead (that C train). Thanks MTA for the unnecessary extra delays :angry:

 

Trains stored in yards during snowstorms can get trapped there, making them unavailable for service when the morning rush comes around. By storing trains underground instead, they won't be trapped, and normal rush hour service can run.

 

Yes, that means that expresses have to be diverted to the local track, but that's far preferable to running Sunday headways on a Monday morning because everything else is trapped in the yards.

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  • 2 months later...

digging up two month old treads is what's pointless...

 

To answer your question; No, they are not able to handle the cold. Snow gets sucked into DC traction motors, causing a short circuit in the stators, and on the NTTs, low temps and electronics do not mix.

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digging up two month old treads is what's pointless...

 

To answer your question; No, they are not able to handle the cold. Snow gets sucked into DC traction motors, causing a short circuit in the stators, and on the NTTs, low temps and electronics do not mix.

doesn't the carbon steel on the NTTS protect the stator built inside of them and this forum is int exactly old it's only two months behind
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You mean like how the (N) switches to the local track at 59 Street, but end up skipping 53 Street and 45 Street anyway before switching back to the express track at 36 Street?

I needed Kingston Ave on (C) last Thursday.An (A) shows up at Broadway Junction.I take it hoping for a miracle that I get a (C) at Utica.We switch to local track but went express.That was not right.I needed Kingston.If it's on that track you might as well stop there anyway.Sometimes when trains are diverted to Local they will make the stops and sometimes not

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The Cold weather plan is pretty pointless I say aren't trains nowadays durable enough to handle the cold

Trains may be, but humans aren't. If we can't safely reach our trains in the yard due to ice or snow conditions, they won't be going anywhere.

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Trains may be, but humans aren't. If we can't safely reach our trains in the yard due to ice or snow conditions, they won't be going anywhere.

I don't mean when there is snow or hale I mean when it is freezing cold period I mean isn't it pointless to do it then
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Trains may be, but humans aren't. If we can't safely reach our trains in the yard due to ice or snow conditions, they won't be going anywhere.

LMAO... I don't recall EVER staying home from work because of cold conditions... What a load of BS.  The only time I was stuck at home and couldn't go to work was because the express buses weren't running to Midtown supposedly because they couldn't get up the hill, yet the local buses were running just fine. Go figure. <_< They cancel the subways for anything these days.

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LMAO... I don't recall EVER staying home from work because of cold conditions... What a load of BS. The only time I was stuck at home and couldn't go to work was because the express buses weren't running to Midtown supposedly because they couldn't get up the hill, yet the local buses were running just fine. Go figure. <_< They cancel the subways for anything these days.

Walking to catch your express bus in the snow and ice is a lot different than walking along the tracks in the snow and ice to retrieve your train...

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Walking to catch your express bus in the snow and ice is a lot different than walking along the tracks in the snow and ice to retrieve your train...

Not sure I see the difference quite frankly... I mean since most of the buildings around me in Riverdale are either condos, co-ops or private houses, the sidewalks are shoveled promptly by the maintenance folks or someone else comes around and does it (i.e. paid help).  Don't they shovel in the yard when it snows?  The one advantage is that they are walking on flat surfaces while I have to walk up/down hills etc. to get my express bus or Metro-North shuttle bus and we get far more snow usually because of our high elevation and being next to Westchester and the Hudson River.

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Not sure I see the difference quite frankly... I mean since most of the buildings around me in Riverdale are either condos, co-ops or private houses, the sidewalks are shoveled promptly by the maintenance folks or someone else comes around and does it (i.e. paid help).  Don't they shovel in the yard when it snows?  The one advantage is that they are walking on flat surfaces while I have to walk up/down hills etc. to get my express bus or Metro-North shuttle bus and we get far more snow usually because of our high elevation and being next to Westchester and the Hudson River.

 

While I'm surprised you don't have a clear view of the yard from atop your ivory tower (just a joke), "shoveling" out the yard is much different than shoveling a sidewalk. 

 

A rail yard is an incredibly complex machine with dozens of switches that need to be able to change to new lineups fairly rapidly in order to get all the trains out on time in the morning. None of this is a flat surface. And the switches themselves are going to have lots of little places where ice could get in, build up and prevent proper function. 

 

Not to mention the third rail. Remember what happened when that umbrella caught fire during the ice storm on the 7 line? Service was stopped for maybe an hour, and then the third rail built up a layer of ice thick enough to halt service for the rest of the day. Well, the trains in the yard would be static all night long, and if there were any ice formation, it would be atop dozens of third rails, and would completely bork the morning commutes of a great many. 

 

finally, During the time in which it should be "shoveled out", it would actually be full of trains - Further complicating the process. But really it's about ice, not about snow. Ice removal is hard. You can salt a sidewalk to keep it free of ice, but - well - try salting the yard. Remember what happened to the Montague tube after sandy? Well, that was caused by salt water. I think we can agree that spreading salt through a yard full of iron and copper is a terrible idea.  

 

So - for a multitude of reasons, storing the trains underground just makes sense. 

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While I'm surprised you don't have a clear view of the yard from atop your ivory tower (just a joke), "shoveling" out the yard is much different than shoveling a sidewalk. 

 

A rail yard is an incredibly complex machine with dozens of switches that need to be able to change to new lineups fairly rapidly in order to get all the trains out on time in the morning. None of this is a flat surface. And the switches themselves are going to have lots of little places where ice could get in, build up and prevent proper function. 

 

Not to mention the third rail. Remember what happened when that umbrella caught fire during the ice storm on the 7 line? Service was stopped for maybe an hour, and then the third rail built up a layer of ice thick enough to halt service for the rest of the day. Well, the trains in the yard would be static all night long, and if there were any ice formation, it would be atop dozens of third rails, and would completely bork the morning commutes of a great many. 

 

finally, During the time in which it should be "shoveled out", it would actually be full of trains - Further complicating the process. But really it's about ice, not about snow. Ice removal is hard. You can salt a sidewalk to keep it free of ice, but - well - try salting the yard. Remember what happened to the Montague tube after sandy? Well, that was caused by salt water. I think we can agree that spreading salt through a yard full of iron and copper is a terrible idea.  

 

So - for a multitude of reasons, storing the trains underground just makes sense. 

The closest rail yard to me is a good 20 minute walk near Manhattan College in Fieldston.  The (1) train yard.  I've looked at it a few times when walking along Manhattan College Parkway for a stroll in Riverdale.   If it's best to store trains underground, why are all yards not underground?

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The closest rail yard to me is a good 20 minute walk near Manhattan College in Fieldston.  The (1) train yard.  I've looked at it a few times when walking along Manhattan College Parkway for a stroll in Riverdale.   If it's best to store trains underground, why are all yards not underground?

Because where is there room to build every yard underground. What more do you want honestly?

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The subway has the 3rd rail, regular streets do not.

 

 

And the entrance to Yonkers depot is on a steep hill, maybe the buses couldn't climb that hill and not the one in Riverdale.

No it was the hills in Riverdale.  They can park elsewhere for Yonkers Depot and have.

 

 

 

Because where is there room to build every yard underground. What more do you want honestly?

If it's supposed to be "better" to have trains underground, it would make sense to have at least some yards underground, but I don't think any of them are. That's a lot of money and manpower wasted just to move trains around.

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If it's supposed to be "better" to have trains underground, it would make sense to have at least some yards underground, but I don't think any of them are. That's a lot of money and manpower wasted just to move trains around.

 

But clearly the trains would get stuck outside in the snow and ice all night and the train crews would be unable to retrieve them in the morning for that purpose. Once you store them underground, they'll be ready for the morning rush. Meanwhile, workers can have time to clear the snow and ice until it's safer for the trains to get back out there.

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But clearly the trains would get stuck outside in the snow and ice all night and the train crews would be unable to retrieve them in the morning for that purpose. Once you store them underground, they'll be ready for the morning rush. Meanwhile, workers can have time to clear the snow and ice until it's safer for the trains to get back out there.

Well this set up will remain for years to come.  I don't see any major infrastructure improvements coming for the (MTA) so the 18th century methods shall continue.

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