Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2015 Share #1 Posted February 1, 2015 I was on the BxM2 yesterday heading home and say a shuttle bus running service for the train up Madison Avenue. At first I thought it was a mistake, but the bus was packed. This morning I checked the status update for the subway and saw a TON of changes because of this so-called "NYCT Cold Weather Plan". Now I agree with them shutting down the system because of the storm, but are they seriously going to do this every time it's cold? Seems like a BS reason to curtail service. I mean what happens if it's this cold during rush hour? I don't see the difference. Cold weather is cold weather. Things like this demonstrate how much subway is going down the tubes. I can't imagine Metro-North being down here because of "cold weather". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted February 1, 2015 Share #2 Posted February 1, 2015 That was a GO (General Order) where service was suspended between 96 St in Manhattan and 3 Av in the Bronx and replaced with shuttle buses. It was normal, planned construction work and had nothing to do with the Cold Weather Plan. The Cold Weather Plan has different stages, but it generally involves express trains running local so that trains normally stored in yards can be stored on underground express tracks instead. The Lenox Av line is an underground segment, why would it be shut down because of cold weather? That makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share #3 Posted February 1, 2015 That was a GO (General Order) where service was suspended between 96 St in Manhattan and 3 Av in the Bronx and replaced with shuttle buses. It was normal, planned construction work and had nothing to do with the Cold Weather Plan. The Cold Weather Plan has different stages, but it generally involves express trains running local so that trains normally stored in yards can be stored on underground express tracks instead. The Lenox Av line is an underground segment, why would it be shut down because of cold weather? That makes no sense. That's not what the status update says. It says NYCT Cold Weather Plan... Check the website for yourself. Due to NYCT Cold Weather Plan, northbound trains are running local from 34 St-Penn Station to 96 St. Expect delays on train service. Allow additional travel time. Source: http://www.mta.info/status/subway/123/23713303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted February 1, 2015 Share #4 Posted February 1, 2015 Metal + cold = bad. Anything that runs on rails, from the subway (any exposed rail) to commuter rail, is affected. It can make metal brittle enough to snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJC Posted February 1, 2015 Share #5 Posted February 1, 2015 That's not what the status update says. It says NYCT Cold Weather Plan... Check the website for yourself. Source: http://www.mta.info/status/subway/123/23713303 Trains have been running local all weekend, due to underground layups in preparation for tonight's snowstorm. Completely separate from that, there was no 2 service between 96th and 149th from Friday night through early this morning, due to a previously planned GO. You won't see it in the service alerts anymore, because it ended at 5:00, but it's still in the press release: http://www.mta.info/press-release/nyc-transit/revised-weekend-subway-service-advisory-1 From 11:30 p.m. Friday, January 30, to 5:00 a.m. Sunday, February 1, service is suspended in both directions between 3 Av-149 St and 96 St. Free shuttle buses operate in two segments: • Nonstop between 3 Av-149 St and 96 St. • Local between 3 Av-149 St and 96 St, making station stops at 149 St-Grand Concourse, 145 St, 135 St, 125 St, 116 St, and 110 St. (Why would anyone even think that shuttle buses on Madison Avenue had anything to do with trains running local? Shuttle buses are used when a section of a line is out of service entirely, not when trains run local.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted February 1, 2015 Metal + cold = bad. Anything that runs on rails, from the subway (any exposed rail) to commuter rail, is affected. It can make metal brittle enough to snap. Yeah, but the commuter trains are running just fine. It makes no sense that they don't run subways outside, but run all commuter train service, which is all outdoors. I don't see the difference... Trains have been running local all weekend, due to underground layups in preparation for tonight's snowstorm. Completely separate from that, there was no 2 service between 96th and 149th from Friday night through early this morning, due to a previously planned GO. You won't see it in the service alerts anymore, because it ended at 5:00, but it's still in the press release: http://www.mta.info/press-release/nyc-transit/revised-weekend-subway-service-advisory-1 (Why would anyone even think that shuttle buses on Madison Avenue had anything to do with trains running local? Shuttle buses are used when a section of a line is out of service entirely, not when trains run local.) I don't use the subways often (once a week I use them to travel to a client uptown), so I don't pay attention. I asked out of curiosity. It's still strange that they're preparing for the storm, but they're still doing the GOs too, making subway service that much more unbearable on the weekends. I use the express buses or Metro-North on weekends. A lot less hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from Maspeth Posted February 1, 2015 Share #7 Posted February 1, 2015 The GO with the bustitution between 96 and 149 was scheduled long before the underground lay-ups were scheduled. The GO was scheduled several weeks ago and the Cold Weather Plan for the weekend was called 11 AM Friday morning. NYCT does not curtail subway service and beef up bus service for a Cold Weather Plan.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 1, 2015 Share #8 Posted February 1, 2015 Yeah, but the commuter trains are running just fine. It makes no sense that they don't run subways outside, but run all commuter train service, which is all outdoors. It's all about reducing risk. It's possible to reduce risk on the subway, which has multiple tracks running to various different places, but the commuter rails are mostly all exposed, so it's not really a risk reduction to cut service like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted February 1, 2015 It's all about reducing risk. It's possible to reduce risk on the subway, which has multiple tracks running to various different places, but the commuter rails are mostly all exposed, so it's not really a risk reduction to cut service like that.So subway passengers should face longer and more tedious commutes which commuter riders like myself maintain the same service... Interesting... I'm surprised you're not balking about this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from Maspeth Posted February 1, 2015 Share #10 Posted February 1, 2015 Regular service is maintained in the rush hour as the underground lay-up's are all used for service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted February 1, 2015 Regular service is maintained in the rush hour as the underground lay-up's are all used for service.That's still unacceptable when you consider how many people need and ride the subways on the weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrivera Posted February 1, 2015 Share #12 Posted February 1, 2015 So now that we established that the G.O. was separate from the Cold Weather Plan and that the GO has ended, why is the running at 20 minute headways today from Dyre to Bowling Green when yesterday it was running every 12 mins from Dyre to E180? And don't give me the old "well, they're making local stops in Manhattan" answer because they run the 20 minute headways even when the and are running express. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted February 1, 2015 Share #13 Posted February 1, 2015 So now that we established that the G.O. was separate from the Cold Weather Plan and that the GO has ended, why is the running at 20 minute headways today from Dyre to Bowling Green when yesterday it was running every 12 mins from Dyre to E180? And don't give me the old "well, they're making local stops in Manhattan" answer because they run the 20 minute headways even when the and are running express.It seems like the is almost always like that when operateing to Manhattan...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted February 1, 2015 Share #14 Posted February 1, 2015 Yeah, but the commuter trains are running just fine. It makes no sense that they don't run subways outside, but run all commuter train service, which is all outdoors. I don't see the difference... They don't run as often as our subways... That's still unacceptable when you consider how many people need and ride the subways on the weekends. I don't see the difference especially since we've had GOs that sent trains to the local tracks. The only one I know that's a problem out of this is the in Brooklyn because that local service can be a real pain in the ass. But other than that, most local service(especially in Manhattan) are relatively quick and it sometimes helps. The always gets slammed on the weekend and the & are running local, it makes for extra trains on that part and it helps. The one time it got really bad that I remember was recently, when they had the only run local in one direction along the Lex with the and running the opposite direction local when the wasn't running in Manhattan, it made no sense, and wait times were rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 1, 2015 Share #15 Posted February 1, 2015 So subway passengers should face longer and more tedious commutes which commuter riders like myself maintain the same service... Interesting... I'm surprised you're not balking about this one... Well, if the alternative is derailment, longer commutes is not so bad. Besides, the time difference between the locals and express is usually only about five or ten minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted February 1, 2015 Share #16 Posted February 1, 2015 The commuter rail was always more fragile than the subways when it comes to winter weather. Just observations from watching the news during these storms over the years. Also certain winter weather storms they do make those Metro North diesel trains run local while the electric trains don't run at all. There is a video on Youtube of a diesel running local on the Harlem line horribly overcrowded shorty after some winter storm. Its also common on the NH line too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from Maspeth Posted February 1, 2015 Share #17 Posted February 1, 2015 I've seen the slant of your postings for a long time. I know for a fact no matter what I'm going to tell you will not sway your opinions. For eons, NYCT has been laying up trains underground overnights and weekends, that do affect service. for extreme cold and snowstorms. They are not going to change it. The mechanical systems of railroad cars are stronger than subway cars due to their higher speeds. They are made to lay up outside since there are virtually no under cover places to store them during snow events. Subway trains are laid up underground in snow primarily for 2 reasons: the safety of crews walking to and from their trains and since many more trains come out of fewer yards, there are so many switches that the failure of 1 can result in a whole bunch of trains stranded in a yard. Sorry you lose your express service with the 5 or 10 minutes less running time a few times a year. I suggest you write NYCT via snail mail with your concerns. But they will tell you, what you don't want to hear, exactly what I just told you. YOU will be the first guy to bitch and moan if after a snowstorm that NYCT should have taken precautions so trains would be at the ready for the rush after a snow event and they weren't. Are you one of those dudes who hijack every thread on the MTA facebook page and complain about everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted February 1, 2015 Share #18 Posted February 1, 2015 I've seen the slant of your postings for a long time. I know for a fact no matter what I'm going to tell you will not sway your opinions. For eons, NYCT has been laying up trains underground overnights and weekends, that do affect service. for extreme cold and snowstorms. They are not going to change it. The mechanical systems of railroad cars are stronger than subway cars due to their higher speeds. They are made to lay up outside since there are virtually no under cover places to store them during snow events. Subway trains are laid up underground in snow primarily for 2 reasons: the safety of crews walking to and from their trains and since many more trains come out of fewer yards, there are so many switches that the failure of 1 can result in a whole bunch of trains stranded in a yard. Sorry you lose your express service with the 5 or 10 minutes less running time a few times a year. I suggest you write NYCT via snail mail with your concerns. But they will tell you, what you don't want to hear, exactly what I just told you. YOU will be the first guy to bitch and moan if after a snowstorm that NYCT should have taken precautions so trains would be at the ready for the rush after a snow event and they weren't. Are you one of those dudes who hijack every thread on the MTA facebook page and complain about everything? That's his modus operandi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share #19 Posted February 2, 2015 They don't run as often as our subways... I don't see the difference especially since we've had GOs that sent trains to the local tracks. The only one I know that's a problem out of this is the in Brooklyn because that local service can be a real pain in the ass. But other than that, most local service(especially in Manhattan) are relatively quick and it sometimes helps. The always gets slammed on the weekend and the & are running local, it makes for extra trains on that part and it helps. The one time it got really bad that I remember was recently, when they had the only run local in one direction along the Lex with the and running the opposite direction local when the wasn't running in Manhattan, it made no sense, and wait times were rough. See my response to Bill.. Well, if the alternative is derailment, longer commutes is not so bad. Besides, the time difference between the locals and express is usually only about five or ten minutes. Please... Aside from the derailments, Metro-North is generally very reliable. Even during the ice storm we had a few weeks ago, trains were right on time that Sunday and it was a smooth commute from Riverdale to Grand Central. That's his modus operandi. Oh please... A complete lie... I've seen the slant of your postings for a long time. I know for a fact no matter what I'm going to tell you will not sway your opinions. For eons, NYCT has been laying up trains underground overnights and weekends, that do affect service. for extreme cold and snowstorms. They are not going to change it. The mechanical systems of railroad cars are stronger than subway cars due to their higher speeds. They are made to lay up outside since there are virtually no under cover places to store them during snow events. Subway trains are laid up underground in snow primarily for 2 reasons: the safety of crews walking to and from their trains and since many more trains come out of fewer yards, there are so many switches that the failure of 1 can result in a whole bunch of trains stranded in a yard. Sorry you lose your express service with the 5 or 10 minutes less running time a few times a year. I suggest you write NYCT via snail mail with your concerns. But they will tell you, what you don't want to hear, exactly what I just told you. YOU will be the first guy to bitch and moan if after a snowstorm that NYCT should have taken precautions so trains would be at the ready for the rush after a snow event and they weren't. Are you one of those dudes who hijack every thread on the MTA facebook page and complain about everything? I don't comment on any facebook pages so I wouldn't know. My issue isn't trains running local. It's the fact that trains are local AND there is shuttle service on top of that. Since they're doing their winter plan, why not cancel GOs this weekend to make the commute tolerable? I used the express bus for my commuting today as usual, but the express buses were more crowded than usual, and I suspect some of those people were subway riders who didn't want to put up with all of the transfers and chaos. The commuter rail was always more fragile than the subways when it comes to winter weather. Just observations from watching the news during these storms over the years. Please... Even the admits that the subways are more and more delayed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted February 2, 2015 Share #20 Posted February 2, 2015 I don't comment on any facebook pages so I wouldn't know. My issue isn't trains running local. It's the fact that trains are local AND there is shuttle service on top of that. Since they're doing their winter plan, why not cancel GOs this weekend to make the commute tolerable? If you took the time to check, you would see that they did cancel the shuttle service and most of the other G.Os... Only ones that was active really were the and . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share #21 Posted February 2, 2015 If you took the time to check, you would see that they did cancel the shuttle service and most of the other G.Os... Only ones that was active really were the and . When was this? The shuttle service was still going on the train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted February 2, 2015 Share #22 Posted February 2, 2015 When was this? The shuttle service was still going on the train. Last I checked this morning at 7am, it was cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted February 2, 2015 Share #23 Posted February 2, 2015 Last I checked this morning at 7am, it was cancelled. The G.O ended at 5 AM this morning actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted February 2, 2015 Share #24 Posted February 2, 2015 I've seen the slant of your postings for a long time. I know for a fact no matter what I'm going to tell you will not sway your opinions. For eons, NYCT has been laying up trains underground overnights and weekends, that do affect service. for extreme cold and snowstorms. They are not going to change it. The mechanical systems of railroad cars are stronger than subway cars due to their higher speeds. They are made to lay up outside since there are virtually no under cover places to store them during snow events. Subway trains are laid up underground in snow primarily for 2 reasons: the safety of crews walking to and from their trains and since many more trains come out of fewer yards, there are so many switches that the failure of 1 can result in a whole bunch of trains stranded in a yard. Sorry you lose your express service with the 5 or 10 minutes less running time a few times a year. I suggest you write NYCT via snail mail with your concerns. But they will tell you, what you don't want to hear, exactly what I just told you. YOU will be the first guy to bitch and moan if after a snowstorm that NYCT should have taken precautions so trains would be at the ready for the rush after a snow event and they weren't. Are you one of those dudes who hijack every thread on the MTA facebook page and complain about everything? And that's how it SHOULD be done. Yes, you lose express service, but unless on a weekend you are timing things very tightly, it's not going to kill to ride the local. In fact, I would in many cases be better off in that scenario with more trains stopping. Better that than have a load of trains stuck in the yard coming Monday morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted February 4, 2015 Share #25 Posted February 4, 2015 Wow at some of these replies from the Arm Chair RTO folks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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