Manhattan-Centric Transit System Falls Short in Other Boroughs

[Union Tpke]

http://library.rpa.org/pdf/RPA-Overlooked-Boroughs-Technical-Report.pdf

 

Manhattan-Centric Transit System Falls Short in Other Boroughs

February 10, 2015 

The outer boroughs have more residents commuting within them than to Manhattan. But you wouldn't know it from looking at a map of New York City's transit network.

New York's transit network was designed in the early part of the last century to bring residents to the urban core and out again. Yet more people commute within the outer boroughs than from Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island or the Bronx to Manhattan. Roughly 1.7 million residents of the four outer boroughs commuted to jobs within those boroughs in 2010, an increase of 18% from a decade earlier. Fewer New Yorkers - about one million -- commuted to jobs from the outer boroughs to Manhattan, up 12% from 2010.

Today, Regional Plan Association released a study that examines the shortfalls in the bus, subway and commuter rail network in the boroughs outside Manhattan, and proposes numerous short- and long-term solutions to address these problems. The study, "Overlooked Boroughs: Where New York City's Transit Falls Short and How to Fix It," identified three core challenges for residents of the other boroughs: 

• The subway is of limited use for travel within the boroughs.
• Bus service in the boroughs is slow and infrequent, and many residents need to take two or more buses to reach their destination.
• The metropolitan region’s vast commuter rail network could be far better utilized in the boroughs.

Residents of the outer boroughs sometimes need to take circuitous journeys through Manhattan in order to travel to work or school in another borough, adding significant time to their commutes. 

The report also found that the transit gap falls especially hard on lower-income households, who are less likely to own cars and rely heavily on mass transit for their daily commutes. Lower-income residents are more likely to work in sectors such as retail and health care, industries with jobs spread throughout the five boroughs. They also are less able to afford taxis, and have fewer service and retail options within walking distance than more affluent neighborhoods. And the higher cost of commuter rail service can be a barrier to residents who might otherwise look for reverse-commute jobs in the suburbs. 

“Much of the growth in jobs, homes and travel in the coming decades will take place outside Manhattan, but that growth won’t be sustainable unless we make some very significant changes to our transit system,” said Tom Wright, president of RPA. “Good transit access plays an enormous role in expanding opportunity to education and jobs. As New York works to foster a new supply of housing to meet surging demand, we need to think more broadly about how our transit network will accommodate the city’s needs well into the 21st century.”

“Overlooked Boroughs” was written by Jeffrey Zupan, RPA's senior fellow for transportation, and by Richard Barone, RPA’s director of transportation programs. The authors found that residents’ access to transit would be improved through a series of short- and longer-term measures, including:

• Increase the frequency of bus service on dozens of outer-borough routes;

• Run a 24-mile overground rail line running on an existing rail right-of-way from Bay Ridge in Brooklyn, through Queens, to Co-Op City in the Bronx, to carry passengers directly from one outer borough to another.

• Extend the Second Avenue subway both north to the Bronx and south to Lower Manhattan;

• Expand Select Bus Service on an additional eight corridors, two in each borough except for Manhattan;

• Speed bus service by implementing contactless fare payment, better traffic enforcement and other measures;

• Increase off-peak and reverse commute service on Metro-North in the Bronx and the Long Island Rail Road in Queens;

• Reduce weekday commuter rail fares for trips within New York City;

• Add LIRR Main Line capacity in order to increase reverse commute service.

“Overlooked Boroughs” was written by Jeffrey Zupan, RPA's senior fellow for transportation, and by Richard Barone, RPA’s director of transportation programs. The report was made possible through the support of the Robert Sterling Clark Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation.

Read the executive summary.
Read the full technical report.

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm sorry but Metro-North fares should not be lowered.  It is for those of us who either live IN the suburbs or in suburban areas of NYC and we pay higher fares for the convenience of having faster commutes.  The City Ticket is already cheap enough at $4.00.  The is no position to lower fares.

[MysteriousBtrain]

I'm sorry but Metro-North fares should not be lowered. It is for those of us who either live IN the suburbs or in suburban areas of NYC and we pay higher fares for the convenience of having faster commutes. The City Ticket is already cheap enough at $4.00. The is no position to lower fares.

I agree. Most areas the LIRR and MNR serve in NYC are within subway distance. You wanna pay less than $4 to get to your destination, take the subway and/or the bus.

Even if you are coming from the suburbs, I'd say the prices are acceptable (for now).

[itmaybeokay]

I'm sorry but Metro-North fares should not be lowered.  It is for those of us who either live IN the suburbs or in suburban areas of NYC and we pay higher fares for the convenience of having faster commutes.  The City Ticket is already cheap enough at $4.00.  The is no position to lower fares.

 

I agree - the city ticket is cheap enough at $4. 

 

This also offers no retort whatsoever to the article, which suggests that WEEKDAY in-city fares be lowered. 

 

A one-way peak ticket from Riverdale is $8. 

 

If I wanted to take the railroad from the closest station to me - Woodside - literally 1 stop into Penn Station - during Peak hours this also would cost me $8. 

 

The CityTicket for LIRR and MNRR is only valid on Saturday and Sunday. 

http://web.mta.info/mta/cityticket.htm

 

I think that making the CityTicket valid 7 days a week would be a perfect way to respond to this suggestion. 

 

Whether this is economically viable is another question altogether, and I don't have enough information to say that it is or isn't.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree - the city ticket is cheap enough at $4. 

 

This also offers no retort whatsoever to the article, which suggests that WEEKDAY in-city fares be lowered. 

 

A one-way peak ticket from Riverdale is $8. 

 

If I wanted to take the railroad from the closest station to me - Woodside - literally 1 stop into Penn Station - during Peak hours this also would cost me $8. 

 

The CityTicket for LIRR and MNRR is only valid on Saturday and Sunday. 

http://web.mta.info/mta/cityticket.htm

 

I think that making the CityTicket valid 7 days a week would be a perfect way to respond to this suggestion. 

 

Whether this is economically viable is another question altogether, and I don't have enough information to say that it is or isn't.  

A one way peak ticket is actually $8.25 (will be $8.75 come March 22nd  ) , plus $2.50 ($2.75 come March 22nd  )   for the Hudson Rail Link bus. I usually just pay $8.25 since my express bus pass covers the Hudson Rail Link costs, but one the rare occasions that I use a Pay-Per-Ride, I pay $10.75 one way, and I am perfectly fine with that.  Folks that live far out in suburban parts of the city like it that way and are fine paying more for their transportation.  

 

I'm also well aware of the fact that City Ticket is only valid during weekends when ridership is lower and there is sufficient capacity to deal with the demand.  I do NOT support lowering fares during the week.  Commuter trains are NOT subways and should not be used as such.   For people that use them as subways, they should pay the higher fares to ride. Those in Westchester and Long Island already pay enough and have poor service in some cases.  Overcrowding their trains with city folks that would pay less makes no sense when they barely have the capacity now to handle the crowds.  I'm also concerned about the types of riders lower fares would attract (i.e. subway types ), and I'm sure riders in Westchester and Long Island would agree with me. If those folks want to ride MNRR and LIRR regularly then they'll pay the higher fares like the rest of us.

[CDTA]

 

• Increase the frequency of bus service on dozens of outer-borough routes;

• Run a 24-mile overground rail line running on an existing rail right-of-way from Bay Ridge in Brooklyn, through Queens, to Co-Op City in the Bronx, to carry passengers directly from one outer borough to another.

• Extend the Second Avenue subway both north to the Bronx and south to Lower Manhattan;

• Expand Select Bus Service on an additional eight corridors, two in each borough except for Manhattan;

• Speed bus service by implementing contactless fare payment, better traffic enforcement and other measures;

• Increase off-peak and reverse commute service on Metro-North in the Bronx and the Long Island Rail Road in Queens;

• Reduce weekday commuter rail fares for trips within New York City;

• Add LIRR Main Line capacity in order to increase reverse commute service.

 

 

That would all be great if we could actually acquire funding for it

[FamousNYLover]

I agree. Most areas the LIRR and MNR serve in NYC are within subway distance. You wanna pay less than $4 to get to your destination, take the subway and/or the bus.

Even if you are coming from the suburbs, I'd say the prices are acceptable (for now).

 

 

I agree. Most areas the LIRR and MNR serve in NYC are within subway distance. You wanna pay less than $4 to get to your destination, take the subway and/or the bus.

Even if you are coming from the suburbs, I'd say the prices are acceptable (for now).

 

 

I agree - the city ticket is cheap enough at $4. 

 

This also offers no retort whatsoever to the article, which suggests that WEEKDAY in-city fares be lowered. 

 

A one-way peak ticket from Riverdale is $8. 

 

If I wanted to take the railroad from the closest station to me - Woodside - literally 1 stop into Penn Station - during Peak hours this also would cost me $8. 

 

The CityTicket for LIRR and MNRR is only valid on Saturday and Sunday. 

http://web.mta.info/mta/cityticket.htm

 

I think that making the CityTicket valid 7 days a week would be a perfect way to respond to this suggestion. 

 

Whether this is economically viable is another question altogether, and I don't have enough information to say that it is or isn't.  

 

I agree, and weekend CityTicket should be expand to Holiday when trains operates on Weekend Schedule. Weekend CityTicket will still be cheap even with fare increase.

 

If both LIRR/MNRR meets, they should have combined LIRR/MNRR CityTicket or combined LIRR/MNRR TVM together.

[QM1to6Ave]

The Jamaica to Atlantic Terminal trip on LIRR is definitely underutilized as a quick trip from queens to Brooklyn. Especially in the mornings, the trains heading into Atlantic terminal from Jamaica are practically empty.

 

The MTA should advertise it as a really fast way from queens into Brooklyn. I use it fairly often and love the quick, quiet ride. Since most of those trains are empty anyway, they should offer a discounted ticket to entice people to take it. If the trains are going there anyway, they might as well make a few bucks off of it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The Jamaica to Atlantic Terminal trip on LIRR is definitely underutilized as a quick trip from queens to Brooklyn. Especially in the mornings, the trains heading into Atlantic terminal from Jamaica are practically empty.

 

The MTA should advertise it as a really fast way from queens into Brooklyn. I use it fairly often and love the quick, quiet ride. Since most of those trains are empty anyway, they should offer a discounted ticket to entice people to take it. If the trains are going there anyway, they might as well make a few bucks off of it.

That's why they're practically empty... You lower the price too much and you would have a problem for sure.

[bobtehpanda]

That's why they're practically empty... You lower the price too much and you would have a problem for sure.

 

There are very few people who actually take the train into Atlantic during the peak. You could double or triple that ridership and still be left with practically empty cars anyways. (It's also like this because it stops at Atlantic, and the amount of people looking for Downtown Brooklyn instead of Lower Manhattan from Queens and Long Island is very low.)

 

The LIRR has a serious balancing issue, in which a few lines are at or over capacity, but the rest aren't particularly crowded by a long shot and any sort of ridership increase could be easily accommodated.

[paulrivera]

Queens-Bronx travel in particular should be a priority for any outer borough improvements. There's no good reason a trip from Riverdale to Jamaica on mass transit should take as near as long as a trip from Riverdale to the north end of Staten Island (and that's counting the Ferry.)

 

As for upping commuter rail service.... these people don't know how commuter rail capacity works, do they? They can't exactly handle trains running every 5 minutes in both directions ya know... Or many standees.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Queens-Bronx travel in particular should be a priority for any outer borough improvements. There's no good reason a trip from Riverdale to Jamaica on mass transit should take as near as long as a trip from Riverdale to the north end of Staten Island (and that's counting the Ferry.)

 

As for upping commuter rail service.... these people don't know how commuter rail capacity works, do they? They can't exactly handle trains running every 5 minutes in both directions ya know... Or many standees.

Why should Queens-Bronx travel be a priority? Based on what exactly?  As for Riverdale to Queens or Riverdale to Staten Island, I commute to and from Riverdale to New Dorp or areas near Westerleigh here and there via the express bus, and it's really not that bad.  Take the X1 from New Dorp, get off at 6th and 34th and get the BxM2 at the corner back to Riverdale.  I do this late nights though when traffic is a non-factor.  That late at night, I can be home from 35th & 6th in about 1 hour and 15 minutes to an hour and 30 minutes and that includes the wait in between buses. I also go from Whitestone to Riverdale via the QM2 to the BxM1 or BxM2, which is about the same amount of time.

 

The one that's a real kicker that I do once or twice a month is Riverdale to Sheepshead Bay via the express bus.  That one takes a while primarily due to the BM3, but Northbound is quick since we can bypass Downtown.

[bobtehpanda]

Why should Queens-Bronx travel be a priority? Based on what exactly?  As for Riverdale to Queens or Riverdale to Staten Island, I commute to and from Riverdale to New Dorp or areas near Westerleigh here and there via the express bus, and it's really not that bad.  Take the X1 from New Dorp, get off at 6th and 34th and get the BxM2 at the corner back to Riverdale.  I do this late nights though when traffic is a non-factor.  That late at night, I can be home from 35th & 6th in about 1 hour and 15 minutes to an hour and 30 minutes and that includes the wait in between buses. I also go from Whitestone to Riverdale via the QM2 to the BxM1 or BxM2, which is about the same amount of time.

 

The one that's a real kicker that I do once or twice a month is Riverdale to Sheepshead Bay via the express bus.  That one takes a while primarily due to the BM3, but Northbound is quick since we can bypass Downtown.

 

There is a lot of demand for Queens - Bronx travel; the Q44 is a very busy route running between Jamaica, Flushing, and West Farms Sq, and is the 14th busiest bus route in the system. Right now the Flushing-Jamaica section is slated to get SBS upgrades, but the main issue with upgrading the rest of the route to SBS or even light rail is the Whitestone Bridge.

[QM1to6Ave]

That's why they're practically empty... You lower the price too much and you would have a problem for sure.

 

As downtown brooklyn becomes more and more popular, I think it will be utilized more and more. I'm not saying make it free, but certainly cheaper than it is now. Again, these trains are already going to Brooklyn anyway, so any money that comes in is free money, essentially, and will take pressure off of the subway

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As downtown brooklyn becomes more and more popular, I think it will be utilized more and more. I'm not saying make it free, but certainly cheaper than it is now. Again, these trains are already going to Brooklyn anyway, so any money that comes in is free money, essentially, and will take pressure off of the subway

The problem is folks in suburban parts of NYC and in Westchester and Long Island already pay high fares, and it's difficult to justify "lowering" the fares for some while constantly increasing them for others.  When the next fare hike comes, a one way peak trip from Riverdale to GCT will cost $8.75, plus $2.75 if you need the Hudson Rail Link bus, making it $11.50 one way or $23.00 for a round trip scenario, which is more than what someone in Westchester might pay (i.e. Ludlow, Yonkers, Glenwood, Greystone, etc).  Folks in our position who use the express buses or commuter rails already pay a premium.  When you factor in the high living cost that most prime areas of Queens has and Riverdale, the cost of living is maybe slightly less than some places in Manhattan, and it begs the question of why should some folks in the city get a break on transportation costs while those in suburban parts of NYC (i.e. Little Neck, Douglaston, Bay Terrace, Riverdale, etc.) or the suburbs pay far more than their "fair share"?

[GreatOne2k]

On weekdays Bronx residents can use the Bx15 LTD and Bx41 SBS instead of paying the high Metro North Harlem line fares (the (8) train was eliminated in 1973). The more bus riders the more justification to expand LTD and SBS service. On weekends they only have the Bx41 SBS for "rapid" service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On weekdays Bronx residents can use the Bx15 LTD and Bx41 SBS instead of paying the high Metro North Harlem line fares (the (8) train was eliminated in 1973). The more bus riders the more justification to expand LTD and SBS service. On weekends they only have the Bx41 SBS for "rapid" service.

Don't the folks in the Bronx already do that?   In Riverdale, we tend to use the express buses or Metro-North (Hudson Line).

[paulrivera]

There is a lot of demand for Queens - Bronx travel; the Q44 is a very busy route running between Jamaica, Flushing, and West Farms Sq, and is the 14th busiest bus route in the system. Right now the Flushing-Jamaica section is slated to get SBS upgrades, but the main issue with upgrading the rest of the route to SBS or even light rail is the Whitestone Bridge.

A Q44 SBS would be interesting to see, either for the potential success or for the colossal failure.

[itmaybeokay]

 

I'm also well aware of the fact that City Ticket is only valid during weekends when ridership is lower and there is sufficient capacity to deal with the demand.  I do NOT support lowering fares during the week.  Commuter trains are NOT subways and should not be used as such.   For people that use them as subways, they should pay the higher fares to ride. Those in Westchester and Long Island already pay enough and have poor service in some cases.  Overcrowding their trains with city folks that would pay less makes no sense when they barely have the capacity now to handle the crowds.  I'm also concerned about the types of riders lower fares would attract (i.e. subway types ), and I'm sure riders in Westchester and Long Island would agree with me. If those folks want to ride MNRR and LIRR regularly then they'll pay the higher fares like the rest of us.

 

Let's summarize your points: 

1. We should not leverage the infrastructure we have to improve transit for everyone because to do so would negatively impact those who currently can afford to ride it. 
2. The sordid underclass that populates the subway shall not set foot aboard the well-kempt railroad trains. 
3. It's fully impossible that lowering prices will increase demand to the point where the service becomes slightly more profitable, thereby enabling the agency to actually run MORE trains, thus decreasing crowding. 
4. Me me me, Riverdale Riverdale, Elitism, Nimby, Express Bus, Incredulous face. 

Obviously I'm mostly joking here, but it might be valuable to try and look at things from other people's point of view. 

The railroads are not - and will never be - a subway. Yet, we should, as a metropolis, consider all of the options for improving transit for everyone. I think the point of the RPA's report is mostly that the systems were largely originally built with an "all roads lead to rome" approach toward getting people to the financial district. The IND is a little broader, but it still focuses on getting people into the "Central Business District". 

 

More and more people have commutes that don't actually terminate in midtown or downtown. 

 

And stunningly, improving those commutes could improve the commutes of people who do still take the routes that the system centers it's attention on. How so? 

 

Lets say someone commutes from Queens to the Bronx. Now they've got to take a train into manhattan, which is crowded with all of the people destined there, and then transfer to a train to the bronx.

 

Take them via the fabled RX route, and all of a sudden, more room from queens to manhattan for everyone else.

 

I already know I'm not gonna change your mind on the subject, VG8. But I hope you can at least concede that improving transit for everyone outweighs the importance of preserving the habits of those who have the means to live in suburbia. This isn't an attempt to start a flame war and I'm really not trying to be an insult. You are entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to express the opposite opinion. 

 

(Hey, if you don't like it, take a cab! Cause if you want better service it shouldn't matter how much you have to pay! - that's your point right?) 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Let's summarize your points: 

1. We should not leverage the infrastructure we have to improve transit for everyone because to do so would negatively impact those who currently can afford to ride it. 
2. The sordid underclass that populates the subway shall not set foot aboard the well-kempt railroad trains. 
3. It's fully impossible that lowering prices will increase demand to the point where the service becomes slightly more profitable, thereby enabling the agency to actually run MORE trains, thus decreasing crowding. 
4. Me me me, Riverdale Riverdale, Elitism, Nimby, Express Bus, Incredulous face. 

Obviously I'm mostly joking here, but it might be valuable to try and look at things from other people's point of view. 

The railroads are not - and will never be - a subway. Yet, we should, as a metropolis, consider all of the options for improving transit for everyone. I think the point of the RPA's report is mostly that the systems were largely originally built with an "all roads lead to rome" approach toward getting people to the financial district. The IND is a little broader, but it still focuses on getting people into the "Central Business District". 

 

More and more people have commutes that don't actually terminate in midtown or downtown. 

 

And stunningly, improving those commutes could improve the commutes of people who do still take the routes that the system centers it's attention on. How so? 

 

Lets say someone commutes from Queens to the Bronx. Now they've got to take a train into manhattan, which is crowded with all of the people destined there, and then transfer to a train to the bronx.

 

Take them via the fabled RX route, and all of a sudden, more room from queens to manhattan for everyone else.

 

I already know I'm not gonna change your mind on the subject, VG8. But I hope you can at least concede that improving transit for everyone outweighs the importance of preserving the habits of those who have the means to live in suburbia. This isn't an attempt to start a flame war and I'm really not trying to be an insult. You are entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to express the opposite opinion. 

 

(Hey, if you don't like it, take a cab! Cause if you want better service it shouldn't matter how much you have to pay! - that's your point right?) 

I support congestion pricing as a way of improving transportation for all, but the idea of making commuter trains cheaper for some as if they are subways is just preposterous.  Those of us who use commuter trains use them primarily because we DON'T want to ride the subway, which is the complete opposite of the commuter trains.  Additionally, the infrastructure that would be needed to expand commuter rail service would be excessively expensive and would need to be paid for some way some how.

[itmaybeokay]

I support congestion pricing as a way of improving transportation for all, but the idea of making commuter trains cheaper for some as if they are subways is just preposterous.  Those of us who use commuter trains use them primarily because we DON'T want to ride the subway, which is the complete opposite of the commuter trains.  Additionally, the infrastructure that would be needed to expand commuter rail service would be excessively expensive and would need to be paid for some way some how.

 

At least we can agree on congestion pricing!

 

EDIT:

Also, i was looking over the RPA's pdf - and not for nothing their intent is exactly what you don't want to happen. 

 

Quoth: 

 

Today, the railroads offer a half-price City ticket — but only on weekends. This makes using the railroad a prohibitive burden for many city residents. RPA recommends that expansion of the discount to weekdays. The commuter rail service would become more competitive to the subway, shifting some borough residents from the subway to the railroads, if they were willing to pay a small premium, reducing crowding on subway lines in Queens and the Bronx. The estimated cost to the MTA after accounting for the revenue gained by the shift from subway to commuter rail is $30 million annually

 

"shifting customers from the subway to the railroads".

I feel like you're going to wake up in the middle of the night, in a cold sweat, those words echoing in your head. 

 

(That said, I do agree that this plan completely fails to account for the increased burden that this would create on the commuter railroads.)

[QM1to6Ave]

The problem is folks in suburban parts of NYC and in Westchester and Long Island already pay high fares, and it's difficult to justify "lowering" the fares for some while constantly increasing them for others.  When the next fare hike comes, a one way peak trip from Riverdale to GCT will cost $8.75, plus $2.75 if you need the Hudson Rail Link bus, making it $11.50 one way or $23.00 for a round trip scenario, which is more than what someone in Westchester might pay (i.e. Ludlow, Yonkers, Glenwood, Greystone, etc).  Folks in our position who use the express buses or commuter rails already pay a premium.  When you factor in the high living cost that most prime areas of Queens has and Riverdale, the cost of living is maybe slightly less than some places in Manhattan, and it begs the question of why should some folks in the city get a break on transportation costs while those in suburban parts of NYC (i.e. Little Neck, Douglaston, Bay Terrace, Riverdale, etc.) or the suburbs pay far more than their "fair share"?

 

I completely see your point. However, when keeping in mind that the commuter rails operate on a zone fare system, it seems silly that it should cost so much to go just a few miles from Queens to Brooklyn. That's just my thoughts

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I completely see your point. However, when keeping in mind that the commuter rails operate on a zone fare system, it seems silly that it should cost so much to go just a few miles from Queens to Brooklyn. That's just my thoughts

Yes, but you also must keep in mind that someone using the LIRR is receiving a MUCH faster trip that isn't comparable to the subway.

[B35 via Church]

 

The authors found that residents’ access to transit would be improved through a series of short- and longer-term measures, including:

• Increase the frequency of bus service on dozens of outer-borough routes;

• Run a 24-mile overground rail line running on an existing rail right-of-way from Bay Ridge in Brooklyn, through Queens, to Co-Op City in the Bronx, to carry passengers directly from one outer borough to another.

• Extend the Second Avenue subway both north to the Bronx and south to Lower Manhattan;

• Expand Select Bus Service on an additional eight corridors, two in each borough except for Manhattan;

• Speed bus service by implementing contactless fare payment, better traffic enforcement and other measures;

• Increase off-peak and reverse commute service on Metro-North in the Bronx and the Long Island Rail Road in Queens;

• Reduce weekday commuter rail fares for trips within New York City;

• Add LIRR Main Line capacity in order to increase reverse commute service.

- I don't understand how the premise of this article is that of NYC being a manhattan centric transit system, but the solution of increasing the frequency of existing bus service on certain/whatever outer-borough routes is being brought up.... See here - Our buses feed pax onto the subway for the most part - the subway system is manhattan centric.... Our bus system aides the so-called manhattan centric system.... So the way I see it, for this particular cause (of improving transit, sans-manhattan, via surface transit), there should be more interborough bus routes, not an increase of existing service.....

 

- I suppose what's being suggested here in this 2nd point is his/her/their rendition of what a Triboro Rx's 'sposed to do.... I personally don't have much of a dog in the fight as to how it should be routed exactly, but I do agree that the shouldn't be the only subway line (disregarding the shuttles) not serving Manhattan.... For example, Connectivity from Brooklyn - Queens (even though it's "one borough away") is still very limited, when we're talking about getting around by train....

 

- Extending the 2nd av subway to lower manhattan? How much lower does it need to go....

As far as running it to the Bronx? Negative - There are more than enough north-south subway lines connecting Bronx to Manhattan.....

Suggesting this defeats the very purpose of what the article's getting at!

 

- I'm not going to waste time with SBS suggestions in general, because that's going to be the future of bus service in this city anyway....

 

- "Better traffic enforcement" is far too vague a request to make, so I'm not going to comment on that...

As far as contact-less payment, again, that's supposed to be coming in the future....

 

- What the hell good would increasing off-peak & reverse commuting fares on the RR's accomplish? I seriously don't get this one.

After reading the latter points, now I get it... the aim is to really try to use the RR as a stop gap.... Yeah, that'll be welcomed with open arms by LI-ers & Westchester/Putnam/Dutchess county residents.... CT riders will adore the idea as well....

 

Should it be a wonder why people are leaving this city in droves with this type of thinking; urbanizing the railroads.....

 

- Wait, mean to tell me it gets better with this/these hypocrite..... So off peak travelers & reverse commuters should be hit with higher fares, due to the fact that our (NYC's) transit system is Manhattan centric - But fares should be lowered for those taking the railroads within city limits???? Someone should tell this/these genius(es) that railroads are generally meant for longer distance travel than what the goddamn subway provides....

 

I'm not going to even bother with the last point; increase more trains running in the reverse peak direction - with which people will have to pay more to ride....

 

I'm out of here.....

[MysteriousBtrain]

Extending the 2nd av subway to lower manhattan? How much lower does it need to go....

As far as running it to the Bronx? Negative - There are more than enough north-south subway lines connecting Bronx to Manhattan.....

Suggesting this defeats the very purpose of what the article's getting at!

I can think of one area that could use some help in the Bronx: Third Avenue. For the south end, it would likely have to use the transit museum as a through station and move the museum somewhere else, and that is not a good idea for now.