news Law-abiding MTA bus driver cuffed like thug after accident in Brooklyn

[Harry]

 

He’s driven a bus driver five days a week, for at least eight hours a day, for approximately 30 years. According to union officials, de Jesus had a good record, despite having to navigate some of the busiest streets and most densely populated neighborhoods in the country. Then on Friday, de Jesus had an accident. After driving some 450,000 miles during his career, he hit a pedestrian. Not on purpose. Not because he was texting or speeding or drinking. He was making a left turn and accidentally struck and injured a 15-year-old girl. He didn’t see her walking across the street, he told police. He looked but didn’t see the girl while turning the 40-foot-long behemoth.

Read more: Source

[Express Bus Operator]

Clearly based on that picture I can easily see the Pedestrian was in his blind spot. Accident is an Accident, why punish if its an accident. This Vision zero law is good but I feel to arrest a Bus operator for an accident which I'm sure he never met to do on purpose should be thrown out! I feel Transit and union should of went harder when they were trying to pass the new bill for that vision zero law. Remove the arresting charge towards BUS OPERATOR!. 

Edited February 16, 2015 by DueceDrives

[Kamen Rider]

So you say Zero Vision is a good law, but it should not be applied to bus drivers. Why?

 

He is driving on a public street. If the law applies to all drivers it must therefor apply to him as well.

 

Did he mean to hit her? no, but the fact stands he did and under the law that's all the matters. Don't like it? get rid of Mayor Wilhelm and his idiotic polices.

[Express Bus Operator]

So you say Zero Vision is a good law, but it should not be applied to bus drivers. Why?

 

He is driving on a public street. If the law applies to all drivers it must therefor apply to him as well.

 

Did he mean to hit her? no, but the fact stands he did and under the law that's all the matters. Don't like it? get rid of Mayor Wilhelm and his idiotic polices.

When I say the vision zero is good in some type of way. I meant in some portion of whats in it such as the speed limit zones, but as far being arrested for an accident is not called for unless its a hit and run. Clearly Transit teach operators how to drive the safest way, EVEN DMV doesn't recognize the way Transit teaches the operator how to drive the bus to prevent accident.And clearly its proven because the things the operator learn during his/her training you can't do during the DMV road test such as 4ft clearance on your right, or taking two lanes. But still people need to understand that the longer and bigger the bus is, the more dangerous it is when it comes to making turns. Sitting behind the wheel all you see a portion of your right and portion of your left. When you're making that left turn, sometimes you lose vision on the left as the bust makes its turn and that's where the blind spots starts. In a car you can easily turn your head back more to view your back door window "If it has one" but the bus you can't do all that.  Even doing the rock and roll doesn't work all the time. We all have learned when we're  crossing the street to always look both ways and assume the driver may not see you. But today, people still cross no matter what and don't really care, especially in Manhattan. 

 

I'm not saying what happen to the teen is good, and all human life matters, but to punish the driver for an error is not called for. We still have people driving under the influence , intoxicated, illegally, and still doing hit and run. They should be the ones being charged. I can see this situation will soon have less and less people applying for the job. 

[CDTA]

Well that's a headline I'd never thought I'd see on a newspaper

[AndrewJC]

Red herring. Nobody claimed that de Jesus deliberately struck Jiahuan Xu.

 

Perhaps he was perfectly law-abiding up through February 12, 2015. Unfortunately, on February 13, 2015, he violated this law:

 

Vehicular traffic facing such [green] signals may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign at such place prohibits any such movement. But vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left, shall yield the right of way to other vehicles and to pedestrians lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk at the time such signal is exhibited.

 

 

He failed to yield the right of way to a pedestrian lawfully within the crosswalk, and now he's no longer law-abiding anymore.

 

Quick tip for dealing with blind spots: If it's a blind spot, then you can't see whether it's occupied or it's vacant. If the law requires you to yield, then perhaps it's not a good idea to assume that it's vacant.

 

For daring to cross the street with a walk signal, Jiahuan Xu may have lost her leg. In a way she's lucky - many other pedestrians have been killed for engaging in the same act. It's about time we started holding drivers responsible for failing to yield to pedestrians while turning.

[R10 2952]

Pedestrians need to be held to the same degree of responsibility as drivers.  No excuses.  That said, the whole Vision Zero package is a bad joke and should be done away with.  I mean, we're talking about a mayor who let his chauffeur hit 50 mph through red lights, but sanctions the unnecessary arrest of bus operators.  DeJesus had no criminal intent.  People need to wake up and vote Warren out...  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No criminal intent yes, but nonetheless he still struck a pedestrian.  There are some bus operators that simply don't pay attention.  Do they have a TON of responsibilites? Yes, but they are being compensated accordingly to do their job, and they need to be held accountable when they don't.  I had a guy the other night that just blew right by my bus stop.  There was a bus picking up passengers at the stop, and instead of him waiting to see if people needed his bus, he just flew and kept going.  I don't know what the rush was since he was actually early, but in any event, we need more drivers who focus on reaching a happy medium where they aren't driving like old ladies, but aren't driving so recklessly that they're running over people either.  These sorts of operators DO exist, but they seem to be a dying breed.

[Express Bus Operator]

No criminal intent yes, but nonetheless he still struck a pedestrian.  There are some bus operators that simply don't pay attention.  Do they have a TON of responsibilites? Yes, but they are being compensated accordingly to do their job, and they need to be held accountable when they don't.  I had a guy the other night that just blew right by my bus stop.  There was a bus picking up passengers at the stop, and instead of him waiting to see if people needed his bus, he just flew and kept going.  I don't know what the rush was since he was actually early, but in any event, we need more drivers who focus on reaching a happy medium where they aren't driving like old ladies, but aren't driving so recklessly that they're running over people either.  These sorts of operators DO exist, but they seem to be a dying breed.

Was it the same bus number? if so if no one is requesting them to stop inside the bus, chances are they wont stop if there's another bus already there.

 

From the way things are going with this Vision zero arresting situation, they will be less drivers applying for this position. Watch and we shall see how things becomes worst and worst as the years continues. 

[AndrewJC]

Pedestrians need to be held to the same degree of responsibility as drivers.  No excuses.  

 

A motorists who violates the law in a fashion that results in the death or injury of a pedestrian is punished, in very limited cases, by a $250 fine and up to 30 days in jail.

 

A pedestrian who violates in the law in a fashion that results in the death or injury of a pedestrian is punished, without exception, by death or injury.

 

Francisco de Jesus broke the law and struck Jiahuan Xu, who was crossing the street in the crosswalk with the light in her favor. As a result, she may lose her left leg. The pedestrian, who was doing nothing wrong, nonetheless bears a far worse punishment than the driver, who broke the law.

 

That said, the whole Vision Zero package is a bad joke and should be done away with.  I mean, we're talking about a mayor who let his chauffeur hit 50 mph through red lights, but sanctions the unnecessary arrest of bus operators.  

 

Actually, no, we're talking about Jiahuan Xu, a 15-year-old girl who was crossing the street with the light and had every reason to expect to make it to the other side of the street with both legs intact.

 

DeJesus had no criminal intent.  

 

And nobody ever claimed that he did.

[46Dover]

Was it the same bus number? if so if no one is requesting them to stop inside the bus, chances are they wont stop if there's another bus already there.

 

From the way things are going with this Vision zero arresting situation, they will be less drivers applying for this position. Watch and we shall see how things becomes worst and worst as the years continues.

 

Anyone else care to chime in?

[Kamen Rider]

When I say the vision zero is good in some type of way. I meant in some portion of whats in it such as the speed limit zones,

 

That's not exactly what you said but I'll let it slide

 

 

but as far being arrested for an accident is not called for unless its a hit and run.

 

Perfectly called for, it's the law now. And even before, if you killed someone when it was not a bit and run, you could still expect to get some new jewelry if you know what I mean.

 

 

Clearly Transit teach operators how to drive the safest way, EVEN DMV doesn't recognize the way Transit teaches the operator how to drive the bus to prevent accident.And clearly its proven because the things the operator learn during his/her training you can't do during the DMV road test such as 4ft clearance on your right, or taking two lanes. But still people need to understand that the longer and bigger the bus is, the more dangerous it is when it comes to making turns.

 

Clearly shows? The dude ran a teenage girl over. Why are you worried about the way he's treated when she will need to learn to walk all over again if they can fit her with a prosthetic.

 

Sitting behind the wheel all you see a portion of your right and portion of your left. When you're making that left turn, sometimes you lose vision on the left as the bust makes its turn and that's where the blind spots starts. In a car you can easily turn your head back more to view your back door window "If it has one" but the bus you can't do all that.  Even doing the rock and roll doesn't work all the time. We all have learned when we're  crossing the street to always look both ways and assume the driver may not see you. But today, people still cross no matter what and don't really care, especially in Manhattan. 

 

A pedestrian in the crosswalk has the right of way. You don't

 

 

I'm not saying what happen to the teen is good, and all human life matters, but to punish the driver for an error is not called for. We still have people driving under the influence , intoxicated, illegally, and still doing hit and run. They should be the ones being charged. I can see this situation will soon have less and less people applying for the job.

 

 

So he screws up, she gets part of her body lobed off and you expect him to not get into trouble? Why? He hit a person with the bus. As far as anyone knows, it's all on him.

[Express Bus Operator]

That's not exactly what you said but I'll let it slide

 

 

 

Perfectly called for, it's the law now. And even before, if you killed someone when it was not a bit and run, you could still expect to get some new jewelry if you know what I mean.

 

 

 

Clearly shows? The dude ran a teenage girl over. Why are you worried about the way he's treated when she will need to learn to walk all over again if they can fit her with a prosthetic.

 

Sitting behind the wheel all you see a portion of your right and portion of your left. When you're making that left turn, sometimes you lose vision on the left as the bust makes its turn and that's where the blind spots starts. In a car you can easily turn your head back more to view your back door window "If it has one" but the bus you can't do all that.  Even doing the rock and roll doesn't work all the time. We all have learned when we're  crossing the street to always look both ways and assume the driver may not see you. But today, people still cross no matter what and don't really care, especially in Manhattan. 

 

A pedestrian in the crosswalk has the right of way. You don't

 

 

 

 

So he screws up, she gets part of her body lobed off and you expect him to not get into trouble? Why? He hit a person with the bus. As far as anyone knows, it's all on him.

 

Ok in that case, lets enforce Jay walkers citations from now on. Seems like its ok to cross  the middle of the intersection anytime while  cars are coming. If being arrested is what it is now if you ACCIDENTALLY run someone over due to being in a blind spot, So let the city start enforcing fines for Jay walkers and using any electronic devices as they're walking to cross the street and not paying attention for potential danger of obstruction. Everything is preventable and that's one of the things transit fights for. "Was it preventable?" 

 

Looks like if you're not a bus operator, you will go against the operator. And If you're a Bus Operator you will defend the Operator. But its good we all have our opinions and Hope there's not another incident. 

[Kamen Rider]

The law dictates he face a penalty. Just because he's a bus driver, does not excuse him from that penalty.

 

I do not like Zero Vision, but what I REALLY don't like is this attitude that some people have that the driver is the victim here. "It's management's fault because of (insert stupid, union made up reason here)" and that because he's a bus driver, then he should get special treatment.

 

Do people cross stupidly, yes. But this is not a case of such. And unless someone was standing there with a video camera, all we know is she had the light and therefor the right-of-way. As far as anyone knows, the driver was not paying attention to what he was doing, and blind spots are not an excuse.

[CenSin]

What of his clean record? Does that grant any amount of leniency? I would be unjust to punish him severely. Any fair trial would have to attempt to discover if the girl had any fault in the matter.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ok in that case, lets enforce Jay walkers citations from now on. Seems like its ok to cross  the middle of the intersection anytime while  cars are coming. If being arrested is what it is now if you ACCIDENTALLY run someone over due to being in a blind spot, So let the city start enforcing fines for Jay walkers and using any electronic devices as they're walking to cross the street and not paying attention for potential danger of obstruction. Everything is preventable and that's one of the things transit fights for. "Was it preventable?" 

 

Looks like if you're not a bus operator, you will go against the operator. And If you're a Bus Operator you will defend the Operator. But its good we all have our opinions and Hope there's not another incident. 

I don't think it has anything to do with being for or against the operator, and everything to do with applying the law as it stands.  I don't see why it should matter whether or not the driver was a bus operator, as if the laws for bus operators are supposed to be different in comparison to other drivers.  The law is supposed to apply to everyone equally.  

[BrooklynBus]

I asked a bus driver a few weeks ago if it is more difficult to drive an articulated bus. He told me they are no more difficult to drive than a standard bs except when you are making a turn. Visibility is a problem.

[AndrewJC]

Ok in that case, lets enforce Jay walkers citations from now on. 

 

As I've already pointed out:

 

A motorist who violates the law in a fashion that results in the death or injury of a pedestrian is punished, in very limited cases, by a $250 fine and up to 30 days in jail.

 

A pedestrian who violates in the law in a fashion that results in the death or injury of a pedestrian is punished, without exception, by death or injury.

 

Seems like its ok to cross  the middle of the intersection anytime while  cars are coming. 

 

On a walk signal? Of course. The New York City Traffic Rules make it abundantly clear that a pedestrian may cross the street on a walk signal unconditionally, while any motorist approaching such a crosswalk is obligated to yield.

 

Is there a different version of the traffic rules that you're working from?

 

If being arrested is what it is now if you ACCIDENTALLY run someone over due to being in a blind spot, 

 

If you can't see into your blind spot, you don't know if somebody's in it or not. Assuming that nobody's in it is a recipe for hitting a pedestrian. There's nothing accidental about driving directly into a space that might be occupied by a pedestrian.

 

Or to put it more simply - if you can't see where you're going, stop.

 

So let the city start enforcing fines for Jay walkers and using any electronic devices as they're walking to cross the street and not paying attention for potential danger of obstruction. 

 

For the third time: A pedestrian who violates in the law in a fashion that results in the death or injury of a pedestrian is punished, without exception, by death or injury. Is that not penalty enough for you?

 

There are no laws restricting the use of electronic devices on the part of pedestrians, and the city can't enforce a law that doesn't exist. Personally, I'm far more concerned about distracted motorists than distracted pedestrians, since distracted motorists put other people's lives at risk. How about enforcing those laws?

 

Everything is preventable and that's one of the things transit fights for. "Was it preventable?" 

 

It absolutely was preventable. Francisco de Jesus could have waited to enter the crosswalk until he was absolutely certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that no pedestrians were in or approaching the crosswalk. (This is what we refer to as yielding the right of way to pedestrians, and it's what the law requires from motorists making turns.)

 

Looks like if you're not a bus operator, you will go against the operator. And If you're a Bus Operator you will defend the Operator. 

 

That's a pretty stupid distinction. Those of us who take pedestrian safety seriously, who think that pedestrians crossing the street with the walk signal in their favor should not have to worry about being hit by a bus or a car or a truck, have been speaking out in favor of this law.

 

But its good we all have our opinions and Hope there's not another incident. 

 

How about we not rely on "Hope"? How about we try to persuade people to not endanger others by penalizing them for engaging in illegal activities that endanger others - or, at the very least, by penalizing them after they've already caused injury or death to somebody who wasn't doing anything wrong?

 

What of his clean record? Does that grant any amount of leniency? I would be unjust to punish him severely. Any fair trial would have to attempt to discover if the girl had any fault in the matter.

 

It didn't grant any leniency to Jiahuan Xu's left leg, did it? His clean record went out the window the moment he decided to drive his bus into pedestrian crossing the street with the light.

 

The point of 19-190 is to encourage drivers to drive safely, so that they don't ever injure or kill a pedestrian who was crossing legally - not even once.

 

According to every article I've read, Xu was crossing the street with the light in her favor. If that's the case, she had no fault in the matter. End of story. The law is quite straightforward.

[Express Bus Operator]

As I've already pointed out:

 

A motorist who violates the law in a fashion that results in the death or injury of a pedestrian is punished, in very limited cases, by a $250 fine and up to 30 days in jail.

 

A pedestrian who violates in the law in a fashion that results in the death or injury of a pedestrian is punished, without exception, by death or injury.

 

 

On a walk signal? Of course. The New York City Traffic Rules make it abundantly clear that a pedestrian may cross the street on a walk signal unconditionally, while any motorist approaching such a crosswalk is obligated to yield.

 

Is there a different version of the traffic rules that you're working from?

 

 

If you can't see into your blind spot, you don't know if somebody's in it or not. Assuming that nobody's in it is a recipe for hitting a pedestrian. There's nothing accidental about driving directly into a space that might be occupied by a pedestrian.

 

Or to put it more simply - if you can't see where you're going, stop.

 

 

For the third time: A pedestrian who violates in the law in a fashion that results in the death or injury of a pedestrian is punished, without exception, by death or injury. Is that not penalty enough for you?

 

There are no laws restricting the use of electronic devices on the part of pedestrians, and the city can't enforce a law that doesn't exist. Personally, I'm far more concerned about distracted motorists than distracted pedestrians, since distracted motorists put other people's lives at risk. How about enforcing those laws?

 

 

It absolutely was preventable. Francisco de Jesus could have waited to enter the crosswalk until he was absolutely certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that no pedestrians were in or approaching the crosswalk. (This is what we refer to as yielding the right of way to pedestrians, and it's what the law requires from motorists making turns.)

 

 

That's a pretty stupid distinction. Those of us who take pedestrian safety seriously, who think that pedestrians crossing the street with the walk signal in their favor should not have to worry about being hit by a bus or a car or a truck, have been speaking out in favor of this law.

 

 

How about we not rely on "Hope"? How about we try to persuade people to not endanger others by penalizing them for engaging in illegal activities that endanger others - or, at the very least, by penalizing them after they've already caused injury or death to somebody who wasn't doing anything wrong?

 

 

It didn't grant any leniency to Jiahuan Xu's left leg, did it? His clean record went out the window the moment he decided to drive his bus into pedestrian crossing the street with the light.

 

The point of 19-190 is to encourage drivers to drive safely, so that they don't ever injure or kill a pedestrian who was crossing legally - not even once.

 

According to every article I've read, Xu was crossing the street with the light in her favor. If that's the case, she had no fault in the matter. End of story. The law is quite straightforward.

 

AndrewJC everyday people are crossing the street when its not their go or to make it worst "Jay Walks" in the middle of the road as you're coming down. Its not just an crosswalk issue, and even still the light is green and they have a "Don't Walk" sign or "Stop Hand Sign" and still try to cross in front of you as you're approaching the intersection. Out of all the boroughs Manhattan is the worst especially in Downtown , Midtown, and Uptown area. I haven't experience since I have been driving anywhere see any law enforcement take action against Jay walkers unless someone in city hall mentions about they need to make "City Finance Revenue" where they would start handing out citations for every little thing that occurs wrong. Pedestrian has the right away when crossing on their go, but at the same time be alert. Don't just cross because it said go, Always assume the driver may not see you. 

 

We have both good and bad drivers on the road all the time. But the way I look at it, if you haven't been behind  either a 20,40,60 Foot vehicle where you depend on mirrors all the time, we can't judge what the average drivers who drives these heavy tons vehicle are experiencing everyday. I understand how it is and how it looks behind the wheels of a big vehicle. What I don't accept is to bad name the operator as a criminal where he never initially meant to run down a pedestrian. And I wish no harm and want anyone to experience either side of the situation.

 

 

                          This is directly from Vision zero website. nyc.gov

• WATCH FOR TURNING CARS

  3 out of 4 crashes occur at intersections. Some spots are more complicated than others. Be especially alert for traffic turning left.

   

• DO WHAT YOU CAN TO BE SEEN

  Hawaiian shirts might not be your style, but adding a brightly colored umbrella or scarf will help others see you.

   

• LOOK IN ALL DIRECTIONS FOR MOTOR VEHICLES AND BICYCLES

  Even if it's a one-way street...even if the signal is in your favor...look around, just in case.

[QM1to6Ave]

I love how no one has cared to mention that even without these vision zero arrests, it's not like drivers who hit pedestrians just walk away scot free. In most cases, they are sued for huge sums of money by the victims. In the cases where the victim wins those large sums, insurance often won't cover the full cost and the driver can go into large debt paying off the remainder. This is in addition to any points on his or her license and fines from the police.

 

Additionally, significant research shows that the risk of being arrested does not do very much to reduce crime rates. I'd be curious to see if these new vision zero laws and arrests lead to any meaningful change in driver behavior. My guess is no. Consistent enforcement of distracted driving laws such as texting while driving would be more likely to increase safety on the road. The New York State Police are cracking down on that, but I guess that does not fit as well into Billy de Blasio's flashy campaigns.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I love how no one has cared to mention that even without these vision zero arrests, it's not like drivers who hit pedestrians just walk away scot free. In most cases, they are sued for huge sums of money by the victims. In the cases where the victim wins those large sums, insurance often won't cover the full cost and the driver can go into large debt paying off the remainder. This is in addition to any points on his or her license and fines from the police.

 

Additionally, significant research shows that the risk of being arrested does not do very much to reduce crime rates. I'd be curious to see if these new vision zero laws and arrests lead to any meaningful change in driver behavior. My guess is no. Consistent enforcement of distracted driving laws such as texting while driving would be more likely to increase safety on the road. The New York State Police are cracking down on that, but I guess that does not fit as well into Billy de Blasio's flashy campaigns.

It's also kind of hard to get the general public to change their habits when you police officers driving and texting too.  A while ago I was coming into work on the Deegan and as I was on the express bus, I saw a cop driving right next to us in one of those police vans and texting.  Really ridiculous but not surprising.  

[QM1to6Ave]

It's also kind of hard to get the general public to change their habits when you police officers driving and texting too.  A while ago I was coming into work on the Deegan and as I was on the express bus, I saw a cop driving right next to us in one of those police vans and texting.  Really ridiculous but not surprising.  

That's terrible. I see that a lot with traffic enforcement agents and school safety officers, but rarely with regular NYPD officers. I see NYPD officers talking on the phone while driving fairly, but I give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it is a police-related matter (plus I don't think that's any more distracting than talking to a dispatcher on a police or MTA radio to be honest).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's terrible. I see that a lot with traffic enforcement agents and school safety officers, but rarely with regular NYPD officers. I see NYPD officers talking on the phone while driving fairly, but I give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it is a police-related matter (plus I don't think that's any more distracting than talking to a dispatcher on a police or MTA radio to be honest).

lol... I think it's very distracting to be texting while flying down the Deegan.  He was glancing down at the phone and then trying to look up and keep his eyes on the road.  Given how much meandering there is the Deegan, the idea of someone doing that doesn't sit well with me.

[Kamen Rider]

The simple fact of the matter is if the union doesn't like this new law, they have to retract all support of the mayor, and focus thier efforts on getting someone elected who will repeal the law. Or sue and try to get it removed as unconsititional.

 

But as it stands, anyone who voted for mayor Wilhelm, you made you bed, now lie in it.

[46Dover]

The simple fact of the matter is if the union doesn't like this new law, they have to retract all support of the mayor, and focus thier efforts on getting someone elected who will repeal the law. Or sue and try to get it removed as unconsititional.

But as it stands, anyone who voted for mayor Wilhelm, you made you bed, now lie in it.

de Blasio has made it so bad on himself with many "dubious" decisions that it's looking more than likely he's a one timer (in office) Edited February 18, 2015 by 46Dover