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Mismanagement on Bx12 Select


JubaionBx12+SBS

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Recent observations of service on the Bx12 Select shows me that there is quite a bit of mismanagement going on and it threatens to hurt ridership if not fixed. I was observing the service while running errands along Bartow Av and noticed 5807 running with only a few passengers on the bus westbound at around 6:10 as it was approaching Edson Av. After that I saw a bunch of Not In Service buses make it ways towards Gun Hill Depot most of them being SBS wrapped. The thing is there were a couple of buses that I'm not sure went into the depot given they turned left onto Edson Av and kept their turn signals on as if to suggest they're going on I-95. In that case those buses could be running dead to Pelham Bay and picking up from there. That move which I've seen a few times before makes very little sense given buses have to face the same lights and I-95 traffic that they would if they just pick up from Bay Plaza. I think operators who do this are working on their own discretion and dispatchers should be making sure these operators are doing what's right.

 

The next bus in service from Co-op didn't show up along Bartow until 6:25 which would mean a 15 minute gap in service during a period buses are scheduled every 6 minutes. I decided to check and see if this big gap affected the crowding and given the bus was so packed riders were standing in front of the white line I would suggest it did greatly. To add to the situation another bus came by 2 minutes later that was SRO with a good deal of standees. To sum up what happened a couple of operators skipped highly used stops to save a few minutes on their schedule resulting in the buses picking them up being unnecessarily crowded. Given crowding is a big issue for this route in general stuff that adds to the crowding and creates gaps in service shouldn't be happening. If it's being allowed to happen which I believe it is someone should be stopping it before riders start avoiding this route like the plague.

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In all fairness, traffic of late has been horrendous.  Last night I was in a taxi coming from a client meeting Downtown and I checked to see where BxM1's were.  I saw a bus leave 3rd and 33rd a few minutes before 21:10 and knew that it had to be the 20:40 since it was way too early for him to be leaving.  I knew that the 21:10 would likely be on time since I saw a bus Southbound.  As soon as I got out of the taxi at the corner of 3rd and 33rd, the 21:10 BxM1 pulled up.  We basically got to Riverdale at the same time as the 20:40, which was 30 minutes late, and my bus had maybe 5 people on it tops, and one got off in Inwood at 220th, and another in Kingsbridge by Tibbett.  Nobody got off in Riverdale until my stop, and the rest of the folks I assume were heading to North Riverdale.  I'm pretty sure that the 20:40 was light too, as we passed it after 61st and stayed ahead of it for a while. Usually when Riverdale express buses are really late, people will take taxis or Metro-North if Grand Central is nearby. I personally would've had the 20:40 bypass stops where possible to let the 21:10 pickup, because that bus was extremely late, but the problem is people would've filed complaints about being passed up and there's been a lot of complaints about service in general so it's a tough situation.  While waiting for the BxM2, I heard a lady complaining about a missing BxM1 and how crowded the bus was that eventually came.  Quite frankly, the real issue is congestion.  This year has been one of the worst and that's saying something in comparison to last year.  A few days ago, it took me almost an hour and 30 minutes on the BxM18, and the bus was over 40 minutes late.  Mind you this was after rush hour, and it's a trip that's usually 35 minutes.

 

I think service is so frequent on the Bx12 that I'm not sure what else could be done. I often times see Bx12's in packs coming to 207th while I'm on the BxM1.

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There is a 24 minute gap in service on weekdays from 10:00pm (last SBS) to 10:24pm (first local) out of Bay Plaza. MTA doesn't seem to mind that even though that trip is crowded.

 

There is a local trip to Inwood 207 St which starts at Pelham Bay which could fill the gap at Bay Plaza instead at 10:12pm, either that or MTA can run another Bx12 SBS trip at 10:12pm to fill the gap.

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There is a 24 minute gap in service on weekdays from 10:00pm (last SBS) to 10:24pm (first local) out of Bay Plaza. MTA doesn't seem to mind that even though that trip is crowded.

 

There is a local trip to Inwood 207 St which starts at Pelham Bay which could fill the gap at Bay Plaza instead at 10:12pm, either that or MTA can run another Bx12 SBS trip at 10:12pm to fill the gap.

It isn't about minding... I don't think they want to run SBS service in general past 22:00 in most cases.

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Recent observations of service on the Bx12 Select shows me that there is quite a bit of mismanagement going on and it threatens to hurt ridership if not fixed. I was observing the service while running errands along Bartow Av and noticed 5807 running with only a few passengers on the bus westbound at around 6:10 as it was approaching Edson Av. After that I saw a bunch of Not In Service buses make it ways towards Gun Hill Depot most of them being SBS wrapped. The thing is there were a couple of buses that I'm not sure went into the depot given they turned left onto Edson Av and kept their turn signals on as if to suggest they're going on I-95. In that case those buses could be running dead to Pelham Bay and picking up from there. That move which I've seen a few times before makes very little sense given buses have to face the same lights and I-95 traffic that they would if they just pick up from Bay Plaza. I think operators who do this are working on their own discretion and dispatchers should be making sure these operators are doing what's right.

 

The next bus in service from Co-op didn't show up along Bartow until 6:25 which would mean a 15 minute gap in service during a period buses are scheduled every 6 minutes. I decided to check and see if this big gap affected the crowding and given the bus was so packed riders were standing in front of the white line I would suggest it did greatly. To add to the situation another bus came by 2 minutes later that was SRO with a good deal of standees. To sum up what happened a couple of operators skipped highly used stops to save a few minutes on their schedule resulting in the buses picking them up being unnecessarily crowded. Given crowding is a big issue for this route in general stuff that adds to the crowding and creates gaps in service shouldn't be happening. If it's being allowed to happen which I believe it is someone should be stopping it before riders start avoiding this route like the plague.

The Bx12 on its best day works very well. But once one little problem pops up, whether it's traffic, dispatchers turning or deadheading buses or drivers playing games (or all of the above) it ends up snowballing.

 

Today alone I let a packed bus go and the second bus was already SRO and this was at Pelham Bay heading west. When the two buses hit WPR a third bus whizzed by either deadheading or playing games since the bus was empty and the sign was set for Inwood.

 

As for your situation, there's typically a dispatcher at Pelham Bay (driver change location) and Inwood (terminal) but not at the Bay Plaza terminal. Bay Plaza alone can fill an entire bus even on a busy day like today.

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It isn't about minding... I don't think they want to run SBS service in general past 22:00 in most cases.

 

They do on Saturday night (and summer Saturday/Sunday, SBS ends earlier on summer weekdays for some reason). On Sunday night, there is a local bus 6 minutes behind the last SBS at Bay Plaza (which has a near seated load). On weekdays they can easily have a 10:09pm local if they wanted to.

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I'm a driver on the SBS 12 and I can tell you that Friday afternoon/evening traffic is often beastly. The buses discharging passengers at the Bay Plaza terminal and going out of service were likely behind schedule & authorized to head to Pelham Bay without passengers in an attempt to get back on schedule. Additionally, at the time you noted, there are runs that are over and pulling into the depot. This happens frequently on Friday evenings: traffic causes us to back up and then 4 or 5 select buses are bunched up arriving at the Bay Plaza terminal together. Let's say one of those is closing out the run and pulling into the depot, another may be behind schedule and "going dark" to Pelham Bay; the driver of another may be exhausted or need a bathroom break and goes out of service to handle that, leaving only one bus to immediately turn around and load passengers again. The evening dispatcher at Pelham is usually pretty good at observing the bigger picture and putting drivers in place at the expense of 4 or 5 minutes additional waiting time for passengers. At least the runs are spaced out again for a little while, but then Fordham Rd. Friday traffic causes bunching again. 

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They do on Saturday night (and summer Saturday/Sunday, SBS ends earlier on summer weekdays for some reason). On Sunday night, there is a local bus 6 minutes behind the last SBS at Bay Plaza (which has a near seated load). On weekdays they can easily have a 10:09pm local if they wanted to.

It's a difference of 30 minutes if anything...

 

 

 

I'm a driver on the SBS 12 and I can tell you that Friday afternoon/evening traffic is often beastly. The buses discharging passengers at the Bay Plaza terminal and going out of service were likely behind schedule & authorized to head to Pelham Bay without passengers in an attempt to get back on schedule. Additionally, at the time you noted, there are runs that are over and pulling into the depot. This happens frequently on Friday evenings: traffic causes us to back up and then 4 or 5 select buses are bunched up arriving at the Bay Plaza terminal together. Let's say one of those is closing out the run and pulling into the depot, another may be behind schedule and "going dark" to Pelham Bay; the driver of another may be exhausted or need a bathroom break and goes out of service to handle that, leaving only one bus to immediately turn around and load passengers again. The evening dispatcher at Pelham is usually pretty good at observing the bigger picture and putting drivers in place at the expense of 4 or 5 minutes additional waiting time for passengers. At least the runs are spaced out again for a little while, but then Fordham Rd. Friday traffic causes bunching again. 

Yeah but looking at the schedule, throughout most of the day, the gaps are supposed to be every 5 minutes.  A bus with artics running that frequently has to be heavily used because the (MTA) I'm sure does not want to run that much service but has to to avoid severe overcrowding.  Maybe they should have some buses on standby at Pelham Bay or other areas... I've only used the Bx12SBS once I believe near Fordham College and it was on a Sunday... Buses seemed to bunch even then.  I only used it to get to the BxM4 express bus, but the crowds were something, and I was on a relatively empty bus because I let one pass.

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It's a difference of 30 minutes if anything...

 

 

 

Yeah but looking at the schedule, throughout most of the day, the gaps are supposed to be every 5 minutes. A bus with artics running that frequently has to be heavily used because the (MTA) I'm sure does not want to run that much service but has to to avoid severe overcrowding. Maybe they should have some buses on standby at Pelham Bay or other areas... I've only used the Bx12SBS once I believe near Fordham College and it was on a Sunday... Buses seemed to bunch even then. I only used it to get to the BxM4 express bus, but the crowds were something, and I was on a relatively empty bus because I let one pass.

I wish the MTA used that logic. There are many routes that can use Standby buses because they suffer from traffic.
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Standby (shuttle) buses are implemented on the Select 12 in extreme traffic conditions. They shuttle passengers from the mall to Pelham Bay Station. Most recently was during the holiday last weekend and Mother's day weekend.

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It exists on some lines, but mainly express bus lines, and even there they are eliminating those.

I was at a mall in NJ once and NJT actually had about 3 buses lined up loading people one by one, and that was on a random Saturday. It was like a breath of fresh air compared to what NYCT would do.

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I was at a mall in NJ once and NJT actually had about 3 buses lined up loading people one by one, and that was on a random Saturday. It was like a breath of fresh air compared to what NYCT would do.

 

Which mall?

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I'm a driver on the SBS 12 and I can tell you that Friday afternoon/evening traffic is often beastly. The buses discharging passengers at the Bay Plaza terminal and going out of service were likely behind schedule & authorized to head to Pelham Bay without passengers in an attempt to get back on schedule. Additionally, at the time you noted, there are runs that are over and pulling into the depot. This happens frequently on Friday evenings: traffic causes us to back up and then 4 or 5 select buses are bunched up arriving at the Bay Plaza terminal together. Let's say one of those is closing out the run and pulling into the depot, another may be behind schedule and "going dark" to Pelham Bay; the driver of another may be exhausted or need a bathroom break and goes out of service to handle that, leaving only one bus to immediately turn around and load passengers again. The evening dispatcher at Pelham is usually pretty good at observing the bigger picture and putting drivers in place at the expense of 4 or 5 minutes additional waiting time for passengers. At least the runs are spaced out again for a little while, but then Fordham Rd. Friday traffic causes bunching again.

 

Drivers pulling out to the depot and taking bathroom breaks aren't the problem. It's the running NIS to Pelham I find strange. I can't see how any more than 2 minutes is saved by doing that. I haven't seen where that move does anything other than create a gap that results in overcrowding. That's what I see.
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I was at a mall in NJ once and NJT actually had about 3 buses lined up loading people one by one, and that was on a random Saturday. It was like a breath of fresh air compared to what NYCT would do.

lol... That is hardly the norm.  NJT is by far extremely stingy when it comes to service, so they must've known about this in advance.

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I was at a mall in NJ once and NJT actually had about 3 buses lined up loading people one by one, and that was on a random Saturday. It was like a breath of fresh air compared to what NYCT would do.

Which mall?

let me guess... a 111, a short turn 115, and a 115 from rahway?

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Which mall?

Jersey Gardens, I think it was in Elizabeth. I forget what route # it was, I think it goes to IKEA too...

 

 

let me guess... a 111, a short turn 115, and a 115 from rahway?

All the buses I saw were laying over at the mall. All I was looking at going back was any bus that said "New York" on it.

 

However on the way to the mall I do know the Union City stops were skipped and were made coming back from the mall, but I honestly don't remember what exact buses I used.

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Drivers pulling out to the depot and taking bathroom breaks aren't the problem. It's the running NIS to Pelham I find strange. I can't see how any more than 2 minutes is saved by doing that. I haven't seen where that move does anything other than create a gap that results in overcrowding. That's what I see.

 

Actually, going dark to Pelham skips 4 bus stops and there is a shortcut that eliminates two or three stoplights. It can save 7-10 minutes, which is significant. 

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Actually, going dark to Pelham skips 4 bus stops and there is a shortcut that eliminates two or three stoplights. It can save 7-10 minutes, which is significant. 

Along the way it would pass 3 of those bus stops so you're only saving the dwell time at those stops plus the two stoplights you skip. Given the schedule allows 12 minutes between Bay Plaza and Pelham Bay for buses in service I hardly see how buses not in service are cutting that down by 7 minutes. That would mean that you're only taking 5 minutes to go dark when you could end up spending that amount of time on the highway alone. 

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Jersey Gardens, I think it was in Elizabeth. I forget what route # it was, I think it goes to IKEA too...

 

 
 

All the buses I saw were laying over at the mall. All I was looking at going back was any bus that said "New York" on it.

 

However on the way to the mall I do know the Union City stops were skipped and were made coming back from the mall, but I honestly don't remember what exact buses I used.

 

Ah, Jersey Gardens is normal for that with the 111 and 115. That's the only mall that has buses lined up and/or positioned for that.

However, on the other side of the mall with the 24 and 40 routes.....what a mess.

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