Bill de Blasio considers raising funds for MTA through East River bridge tolls under congestion pric

[BreeddekalbL]

 

Congestion pricing is back on the table.

The de Blasio administration, which has so far refused to take a position on the controversial traffic-busting plan, said it will consider the measure to help the MTA out of its $14 billion capital budget hole."Given the urgency of the situation, the City is ready and willing to work with the state to develop a sound, long-term solution (to the budget hole)," First Deputy Mayor Anthony Shorris wrote to the MTA in a letter released Wednesday morning.Shorris, who is Mayor de Blasio's top aide, said a number of options for solving the crisis have been considered in recent months, including raising money through the Move NY plan. That proposal, from former city traffic commissioner Samuel Schwartz, would add tolls to East River bridges to help pay for mass transit.

A plan to add such tolls pushed by ex-Mayor Michael Bloomberg failed several years ago because of strong opposition from outer-borough politicians.

Those bridges are free, and New Yorkers who use them felt it was unfair to ask city residents to pay to drive from one part of the city to another.

The plan was modeled after systems in other cities — such as London and Singapore — known as "congestion pricing." The idea is that charging drivers for using roads and bridges, and charging more during peak hours, will reduce demand and eliminate some congestion.

Schwartz's plan is also a congestion pricing scheme, but in addition to raising tolls on East River bridges, it would also reduce tolls on other bridges that currently charge riders. That could make Move NY more palatable to voters than the Bloomberg-era congestion pricing model. 

Schwartz writes the Daily News "Gridlock Sam" column.

 

The Move NY plan would raise an estimated $1.5 billion for roads and mass transit, in addition to cutting traffic snarls. Like de Blasio,  Gov. Cuomo have so far refused to take a position on Move NY.

 

The mayor's sudden willingness to consider Move NY — which many experts think could combat the city's worsening traffic woes — comes as the City Council is preparing to vote on capping the number of for-hire vehicle services like Uber, citing the serious congestion problems.In the letter to the MTA, Shorris also says the city is open to discussing raising taxes dedicated to the MTA.

Earlier this year, de Blasio increased city funding to the MTA — which is controlled and primarily funded by the state — to $657 million over five years.

It was $157 million more than the city had planned on giving, but the Cuomo-controlled MTA still wasn't happy and asked for $2.5 billion to pay for projects like the Second Ave. subway.

The MTA didn't seem too impressed with the city's latest peace offering either.

MTA spokesman Adam Lisberg said the city has been giving the MTA a "paltry" amount of money for decades, and needs to step it up because it is the "primary beneficiary of MTA services."

"While we welcome the city's first response to the proposal the MTA made some 12 weeks ago, in the meantime the MTA has been working closely with Governor Cuomo's office on a plan to meet the essential capital needs of a system that is critical to the city's daily life and economic strength of the region," Lisberg said. "The paltry amount the city has provided for decades — especially given the City's recent historic surplus — can't continue if we are to maintain a safe and reliable transit network, let alone improve and expand rider services."

http://nydn.us/1Mkf2JO

 

OH NO!! will not work in this city!  bad idea!

[peacemak3r]

I've said this many times about this plan, I resent any idea of using funds from roads towards mass transportation until they fix our damn roads first.

 

And relieve congestion? This could ultimately create more congestion than it already has.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I support this plan.  We need to FORCE, yes FORCE people to use mass transit.  Too many damn prima donnas in this city that MUST drive their gas guzzling cars with one person in it clogging up the damn roads.  It disgusts me.  We need more HOV lanes for public transit.  It's ridiculous that commuters who use public transit sacrifice and yet we are forced to sit in traffic for HOURS with the selfish folks that drive into Manhattan every morning and night.

[Union Tpke]

I support this plan! I would also ban cars in Midtown except deliveries. I would also put tolls on all highways that exit New York city, for example on the Hutch at the Westchester border, or the GCP as it goes into Nassau. That would bring in a lot of revenue.

[NY1635]

I support this plan! I would also ban cars in Midtown except deliveries. I would also put tolls on all highways that exit New York city, for example on the Hutch at the Westchester border, or the GCP as it goes into Nassau. That would bring in a lot of revenue.

 

 

I support this plan.  We need to FORCE, yes FORCE people to use mass transit.  Too many damn prima donnas in this city that MUST drive their gas guzzling cars with one person in it clogging up the damn roads.  It disgusts me.  We need more HOV lanes for public transit.  It's ridiculous that commuters who use public transit sacrifice and yet we are forced to sit in traffic for HOURS with the selfish folks that drive into Manhattan every morning and night.

 

Are the both of you out of your mind? The city cannot and should not force people to take mass transit. Taking mass transit should be an option, not the only way to get around the city.

[Union Tpke]

Are the both of you out of your mind? The city cannot and should not force people to take mass transit. Taking mass transit should be an option, not the only way to get around the city.

There is no more room for cars in NYC! Mass Transit is better for the environment, reduces congestion, raises property values, quality of life and so on. If I was making NYC I would take away all cars, not including police, fire department, and some deliveries. The road would be for trolleys, and light rail or buses.

[BreeddekalbL]

Thank you Prince Andrew!

http://www.wnyc.org/story/de-blasio-opens-door-congestion-pricing/

[NY1635]

There is no more room for cars in NYC! Mass Transit is better for the environment, reduces congestion, raises property values, quality of life and so on. If I was making NYC I would take away all cars, not including police, fire department, and some deliveries. The road would be for trolleys, and light rail or buses.

 

Look, I like mass transit, but even I doubt more people taking the bus and the subways would do any of what you just said. At worst, more people taking mass transit means congestion on the buses, subways, and commuter rails.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I support this plan! I would also ban cars in Midtown except deliveries. I would also put tolls on all highways that exit New York city, for example on the Hutch at the Westchester border, or the GCP as it goes into Nassau. That would bring in a lot of revenue.

Deliveries should be made at night.  There are too many delivery trucks double parking and clogging up the roads.

 

 

Are the both of you out of your mind? The city cannot and should not force people to take mass transit. Taking mass transit should be an option, not the only way to get around the city.

People are free to drive into the city but they should pay handsomely to do so just like they do in the UK.    

[Union Tpke]

 

Deliveries should be made at night.  There are too many delivery trucks double parking and clogging up the roads.

 

 

People are free to drive into the city but they should pay handsomely to do so just like they do in the UK.    

 

I fully agree! How would you have them pay? For amount driven?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I fully agree! How would you have them pay? For amount driven?

There would be tolls put on all crossings into Manhattan to avoid people trying to avoid paying which is what is happening now, and on top of that I would have a congestion fee to enter from anywhere below 125th street.  I think 60th street has been considered, but that is generous.  I see far too much congestion well past 125th street and it's really becoming out of control.  Just too many damn cars and more importantly delivery trucks.  That's probably my biggest pet peeve.  They double park all over the place clogging up the lanes when often times there are no cars next to them!  The NYPD needs to be more active in issuing tickets to those UPS, FedEx and other delivery trucks I see all over the place.  My plan quite frankly is to write elected officials showing my support for legislation to be passed for this.  It is needed.  There is simply too much congestion and it needs to be addressed now otherwise this will drag on for years with no end in sight.  

 

It's similar to the no smoking ban.  People were up in arms about it, but they'll adjust.

[Union Tpke]

There would be tolls put on all crossings into Manhattan to avoid people trying to avoid paying which is what is happening now, and on top of that I would have a congestion fee to enter from anywhere below 125th street.  I think 60th street has been considered, but that is generous.  I see far too much congestion well past 125th street and it's really becoming out of control.  Just too many damn cars and more importantly delivery trucks.  That's probably my biggest pet peeve.  They double park all over the place clogging up the lanes when often times there are no cars next to them!  The NYPD needs to be more active in issuing tickets to those UPS, FedEx and other delivery trucks I see all over the place.  My plan quite frankly is to write elected officials showing my support for legislation to be passed for this.  It is needed.  There is simply too much congestion and it needs to be addressed now otherwise this will drag on for years with no end in sight.  

 

It's similar to the no smoking ban.  People were up in arms about it, but they'll adjust.

That is a great proposal! Also, all cars should be banned on certain corridors, such as perhaps 42 Street, to allow light rail to proceed.

[peacemak3r]

People here are so quick to blame motorists for everything...yet I've seen MTA officials and MTA vehicles illegally double parked, illegally parked, and also "clogging" up streets as well.

 

I take mass transportation where needed. But ultimately, it's more convenient in for myself and many other motorists to drive rather take mass transportation.

[N6 Limited]

I've said this many times about this plan, I resent any idea of using funds from roads towards mass transportation until they fix our damn roads first.

 

And relieve congestion? This could ultimately create more congestion than it already has.

How do you feel about the MTA fees, in Vehicle Registration, Licenses, cellphone taxes, sales tax, property tax, etc?

 

I support this plan.  We need to FORCE, yes FORCE people to use mass transit.  Too many damn prima donnas in this city that MUST drive their gas guzzling cars with one person in it clogging up the damn roads.  It disgusts me.  We need more HOV lanes for public transit.  It's ridiculous that commuters who use public transit sacrifice and yet we are forced to sit in traffic for HOURS with the selfish folks that drive into Manhattan every morning and night.

Well, Manhattan is in the Middle of the region and sometimes its more direct to just drive through Manhattan to get to NJ, etc. The region's mass transit is good but it also is not region and passenger friendly unless you're doing a round trip to Manhattan, mass transit essentially sucks.

 

 Before forcing people to use mass transit, get Staten Island connected to the subway, get the Rockway Branch reactivated, get the Triborough RX running, convert the LIRR Atlantic Ave /Hempstead Branch From Flatbush to Belmont Park into a subway and park&ride, create a transfer at Union Ave and Broadway for the and , create a transfer between the and at Livonia, Get transit focused, rider convenient options out there.

 

I support this plan! I would also ban cars in Midtown except deliveries. I would also put tolls on all highways that exit New York city, for example on the Hutch at the Westchester border, or the GCP as it goes into Nassau. That would bring in a lot of revenue.

Why put a toll at the NYC border? Everyone isn't driving to  Manhattan, and if you're driving from LI to points north you'd have to pay at least 3 tolls. Build a cross sound bridge before enacting things like that. 

 

There is no more room for cars in NYC! Mass Transit is better for the environment, reduces congestion, raises property values, quality of life and so on. If I was making NYC I would take away all cars, not including police, fire department, and some deliveries. The road would be for trolleys, and light rail or buses.

Oh please, If you look at the map of car ownership in NYC registered vehicles are registered in transit deserts with crappy NYC buses.

 

Look, I like mass transit, but even I doubt more people taking the bus and the subways would do any of what you just said. At worst, more people taking mass transit means congestion on the buses, subways, and commuter rails.

Right, it means more crowded buses, more bus bunching, more flagging, more "train traffic", more stuffed trains.

 

 

Deliveries should be made at night.  There are too many delivery trucks double parking and clogging up the roads.

 

 

People are free to drive into the city but they should pay handsomely to do so just like they do in the UK.    

 

Are you talking about overall costs to have a car in the UK or London congestion pricing? London's congestion zone is just a small area in the central business area, you can drive AROUND the zone easily unlike NYC where there are water ways everywhere and you have to go through tolled bottlenecks to get around.

 

People here are so quick to blame motorists for everything...yet I've seen MTA officials and MTA vehicles illegally double parked, illegally parked, and also "clogging" up streets as well.

 

I take mass transportation where needed. But ultimately, it's more convenient in for myself and many other motorists to drive rather take mass transportation.

Exactly. I take mass transit to Manhattan, but generally I drive everywhere else, it's quicker, more direct, more convenient.  Sometimes I drive to places where there is parking then jump on the subway as well. 

[BreeddekalbL]

and those in the outer boro's who do not have the subway will be opposed and will kill it

[Via Garibaldi 8]

People here are so quick to blame motorists for everything...yet I've seen MTA officials and MTA vehicles illegally double parked, illegally parked, and also "clogging" up streets as well.

 

I take mass transportation where needed. But ultimately, it's more convenient in for myself and many other motorists to drive rather take mass transportation.

That's perfectly fine, but motorists should pay more for that privilege.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

I'm all for tolling the East River crossings as a means of rationalizing tolls. There's no reason access to the city's core should be free while it's $8 to cross the Throggs Neck. Put a $5 toll on all the bridges and call it a day. The general congestion pricing concept just screams hypocrisy. You pave the roads and build the bridges to handle a lot of traffic and all of a sudden when there's too much traffic we can charge people. If a freeway can handle 1000 cars per hour in smooth conditions and car 1001 comes along messing things up the people that did not cause congestion (because the road can accommodate their traffic) now get charged for the offense of the cars that did. Since it's near impossible to identify exactly which vehicles are exhausting the road capacity the response is to lump all motorists as selfish people causing congestion when that's far from the truth. As long as the roads can accommodate some motorists, some motorists will use them. The problem is that private motorists aren't doing the math a traffic modeler would do so the thought process is that if i'm among the group of drivers that can fit on the road before it's congested i'll make a run for it. Rather than charging people to drive into the city a better idea is to eliminate road capacity for automobiles in the city through things like pedestrian plazas (I have a few spots in mind) and bus lanes (basically putting a figurative blockade on automobiles). The upside to that is auto traffic gets reduced and no one has to come out of pocket to do something that in no way would require it. 

[Wallyhorse]

I support this plan.  We need to FORCE, yes FORCE people to use mass transit.  Too many damn prima donnas in this city that MUST drive their gas guzzling cars with one person in it clogging up the damn roads.  It disgusts me.  We need more HOV lanes for public transit.  It's ridiculous that commuters who use public transit sacrifice and yet we are forced to sit in traffic for HOURS with the selfish folks that drive into Manhattan every morning and night.

That I agree.  The problem is, without doing so, there will be those who drive because they worry about how they will look to certain other people if they use public transportation.  Of course, some of those types will be upset about having to suddenly ride with the "unwashed masses."  

 

I support this plan! I would also ban cars in Midtown except deliveries. I would also put tolls on all highways that exit New York city, for example on the Hutch at the Westchester border, or the GCP as it goes into Nassau. That would bring in a lot of revenue.

I agree there.  Making it cost-prohibitive NOT to use public transportation unless absolutely necessary (and that mainly being those who deliver things and the like) is the goal here.

 

There is no more room for cars in NYC! Mass Transit is better for the environment, reduces congestion, raises property values, quality of life and so on. If I was making NYC I would take away all cars, not including police, fire department, and some deliveries. The road would be for trolleys, and light rail or buses.

 

Exactly!  Of course some (see above) will whine and there will be those who claim they drive because they fear dealing with criminals and others.

Thank you Prince Andrew!

http://www.wnyc.org/story/de-blasio-opens-door-congestion-pricing/

 

Cuomo knows if he comes out and supports it, it could come back to haunt him with certain donors, especially if he is thinking ahead to a third term as Governor in 2018 and more importantly running for President in 2020 or '24.

There would be tolls put on all crossings into Manhattan to avoid people trying to avoid paying which is what is happening now, and on top of that I would have a congestion fee to enter from anywhere below 125th street.  I think 60th street has been considered, but that is generous.  I see far too much congestion well past 125th street and it's really becoming out of control.  Just too many damn cars and more importantly delivery trucks.  That's probably my biggest pet peeve.  They double park all over the place clogging up the lanes when often times there are no cars next to them!  The NYPD needs to be more active in issuing tickets to those UPS, FedEx and other delivery trucks I see all over the place.  My plan quite frankly is to write elected officials showing my support for legislation to be passed for this.  It is needed.  There is simply too much congestion and it needs to be addressed now otherwise this will drag on for years with no end in sight.  

 

It's similar to the no smoking ban.  People were up in arms about it, but they'll adjust.

Most would adjust like they did with the smoking ban.  The idea would be only those who absolutely, positively need to drive and can prove that taking public transportation for them could create unintended consequences would be the ones on the road (that of course regular drivers and not those who make deliveries and so forth).

That is a great proposal! Also, all cars should be banned on certain corridors, such as perhaps 42 Street, to allow light rail to proceed.

That again is something I agree.  Of course, I also still think if we see the kind of building explosion that some think will happen in the next 30-40 years we could actually see the need for BOTH a full SAS AND a rebuilt 3rd Avenue El (and while NIMBYs right now would never allow a 3rd Avenue El, 30-40 years from now different generations might think quite differently from those who were and still are heavily influenced by the abuse Robert Moses did in the 20th century).

[Kamen Rider]

While generating revenue is a good thing... This... No, just no.

 

Mass transit is not the solution for everything (even more so in areas where the system is ineffective). transportation needs to work as a system from all angles to be truly effective and this throws all that out of whack.

 

No one should have to pay a fee to enter another part of the city. That has got to be unconstitutional. Sure, a toll to use a service is one thing, private property is another, but to simple cross between two sections of a city, that is beyond offensive.

 

What's to stop them from putting charges on pedestrians and bikes next?

 

They should have just taken that lady, thrown her out of town and built the cross Manhattan highways. The congestion problems are her fault. Her short sightedness is what got us into this mess.

[MHV9218]

No one should have to pay a fee to enter another part of the city. That has got to be unconstitutional. Sure, a toll to use a service is one thing, private property is another, but to simple cross between two sections of a city, that is beyond offensive.

 

Why? Have you ever taken the Verrazano? Tolls exist for a reason. They provide revenue to maintain service. In this case, we need revenue to maintain infrastructure and support the MTA, because the state refuses to help. 

[Union Tpke]

That I agree.  The problem is, without doing so, there will be those who drive because they worry about how they will look to certain other people if they use public transportation.  Of course, some of those types will be upset about having to suddenly ride with the "unwashed masses."  

 

I agree there.  Making it cost-prohibitive NOT to use public transportation unless absolutely necessary (and that mainly being those who deliver things and the like) is the goal here.

 

 

Exactly!  Of course some (see above) will whine and there will be those who claim they drive because they fear dealing with criminals and others.

 

Cuomo knows if he comes out and supports it, it could come back to haunt him with certain donors, especially if he is thinking ahead to a third term as Governor in 2018 and more importantly running for President in 2020 or '24.

Most would adjust like they did with the smoking ban.  The idea would be only those who absolutely, positively need to drive and can prove that taking public transportation for them could create unintended consequences would be the ones on the road (that of course regular drivers and not those who make deliveries and so forth).

That again is something I agree.  Of course, I also still think if we see the kind of building explosion that some think will happen in the next 30-40 years we could actually see the need for BOTH a full SAS AND a rebuilt 3rd Avenue El (and while NIMBYs right now would never allow a 3rd Avenue El, 30-40 years from now different generations might think quite differently from those who were and still are heavily influenced by the abuse Robert Moses did in the 20th century).

I actually agree with the Third Avenue El proposal.

Modern elevated lines aren't as noisy and can provide more light. Elevated lines are a lot cheaper.

[peacemak3r]

Why? Have you ever taken the Verrazano? Tolls exist for a reason. They provide revenue to maintain service. In this case, we need revenue to maintain infrastructure and support the MTA, because the state refuses to help. 

 

So let's just use toll money to fund the MTA and not the ROADS itself. With no ROAD maintenance, there are no buses. GO FIGURE GUYS.

 

While we're at it, let's charge the people walking and biking across the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges.

[Union Tpke]

So let's just use toll money to fund the MTA and not the ROADS itself. With no ROAD maintenance, there are no buses. GO FIGURE GUYS.

 

While we're at it, let's charge the people walking and biking across the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges.

Some money should go to roads, but most of it should go to mass transit! We should increase tolls for non-New York City residents.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

While generating revenue is a good thing... This... No, just no.

 

Mass transit is not the solution for everything (even more so in areas where the system is ineffective). transportation needs to work as a system from all angles to be truly effective and this throws all that out of whack.

 

No one should have to pay a fee to enter another part of the city. That has got to be unconstitutional. Sure, a toll to use a service is one thing, private property is another, but to simple cross between two sections of a city, that is beyond offensive.

 

What's to stop them from putting charges on pedestrians and bikes next?

 

They should have just taken that lady, thrown her out of town and built the cross Manhattan highways. The congestion problems are her fault. Her short sightedness is what got us into this mess.

I agree that Khan was an idiot and that those pedestrian plazas have made traffic worse, along with the reduced speeds and traffic lights that are out of sync on purpose to reduce speeds by force, but that still doesn't have anything to do with the fact that congestion is worsening and needs to be dealt with.  The population is growing here which means more cars on the road, and we have to address that problem sooner rather than later.

 

 

So let's just use toll money to fund the MTA and not the ROADS itself. With no ROAD maintenance, there are no buses. GO FIGURE GUYS.

 

While we're at it, let's charge the people walking and biking across the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges.

Please.  Stop making this about charging people to walk and bike across bridges.  This is about SELFISH car drivers that MUST drive into Manhattan in a big @ss car with one passenger in it.  It's so offensive to see that and to see how they clog up traffic and that's the problem here.  

[Kamen Rider]

not khan, the lady who name I can't remember who fought the cross Manhattan highway projects in the 1970s.

 

And because for some reason I can almost never copy/paste on this site, or use quote;

 

The toll on a crossing, which is a service, is one thing. But to pay cross a certain street is what drives me nuts. Just arbitrarily drawn a line on the ground and say, "you want to enter this section of town, you've got to pay", is something I can not support.

 

Clear and empty streets for the limousine liberals such as Mr. W. Wilhelm...