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Bus ridership remains on the decline so far in 2015


JubaionBx12+SBS

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A decline in New York City Bus ridership which was pointed out by 2014 ridership numbers has been a recent hot topic for transit discussion. That discussion can still linger given that in 2015 those declines are continuing. Overall NYC buses have garnered nearly 321.8 million trips within the first six months 2015. That looks like a lot but the agency projected that nearly 340 million trips would have been taken within said time frame. Better yet a month by month breakdown of the first half of 2015 compared to the first half of 2014 shows that in each month 2014 had higher usage. The deal with 2014 is that end of year totals showed an overall decline over years prior with the busiest routes in Manhattan and Brooklyn taking most of the losses. 

 

This continuing decline in bus ridership raises many questions. If there is a growing population in the city with a growing appreciation for transit why are buses reflecting the opposite? If subway usage is growing (which it is) then bus ridership should be growing too since many routes are used as feeders to supplement the subway. Also how long can said declines continue and how much worse can they get? Will usage in Staten Island and the Bronx which increased in 2014 go the way of the rest of the city? What moves will the MTA make to respond to the latest trends in bus usage?

 

http://web.mta.info/persdashboard/agencies/nyctbus/cp/204043_chartmth.htm

 

http://web.mta.info/persdashboard/performance14.html

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Not surprised... The real issue is traffic and what is the (MTA) doing to improve the timeliness of buses? It's been a little better here in August, but not by much. There is still a CRAZY amount of traffic even with the brats being out of school. I can't ever remember traffic being so bad. It's the traffic issue, but it's also this idiot de Blasio with his Vision Zero plan which has all of the damn lights out of sync leading to a slower commute. I now give myself an hour and 30 minutes to an hour and 40 minutes to get into the office because I just don't know what to expect anymore. This is for a trip that should take an hour tops.... If I am sick of it, I'm sure many other people are too and some people have resorted to just driving. The (MTA) keeps saying that they can't do anything about it, but that's not a good enough answer.

 

They need to take an aggressive stance about it and work out something with the unions as well to see that the buses are on time more. The buses are either late or early. Rarely do they actually follow the schedule which is unacceptable. I think the time points should be put back in for every stop, especially on express buses, this way it is clear to the driver what time they should arrive at each stop.

 

I was speaking with a buddy of mine on the BxM2 and even he was complaining about the traffic and how difficult it has been to stay on time. It's something the (MTA) needs to examine closely. They need to overhaul schedules too that better reflect what times buses can make.

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From what I hear bike usage killed a bit of the bus ridership in Manhattan... I heard of people commuting from Bushwick into the city by bike so its far fetched people prefer using there bikes for commuting over the bus... especially with all these programs making it easier to bike in NYC in general.

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From what I hear bike usage killed a bit of the bus ridership in Manhattan... I heard of people commuting from Bushwick into the city by bike so its far fetched people prefer using there bikes for commuting over the bus... especially with all these programs making it easier to bike in NYC in general.

Not only that, but the subway is glorified too much now. Subway ridership is sure increasing, but not bus ridership. The MTA with bus service in general has not tried to make bus service more attractive for customers. The MTA does nothing to improve its bus service. Eventually, the subway is gonna reach a point where you're not gonna fit anyone in, and the only alternative would be cars (if by that same time, the city has not done congestion pricing or something of the sort), bikes, buses, cabs, or walking (which only few would do the latter). 

 

Buses also come bunched, late, or just go completely missing for whatever reason. Taking the express bus at least for ,e hasn't been so much of a hassle, but at other times when I don't use it, it's been a shitshow. 

 

I'll give you an example:

The first outbound express to Spring Creek from 57 Street (BM5) departs at 11:40 AM, yet that never happens. Why? The driver who does that trip does a BM4 from Gerritsen Beach at 10 AM (after trying to find out where the bus comes from since I never understood why it always departed late), but never leaves at that time, rather 20-30 minutes late. It obviously must do something before that, since it can't be that the depot to Gerritsen makes the buses late (otherwise, every DH would be late). They clearly don't give enough time to get from Manhattan to Gerritsen. Before say Spring Pick, that bus would always arrive on time, and you could be by the Conduit in 40 minutes (no joke). Now, most often, at that same time, you'd either be pissed off waiting for the bus, taking the subway, or still be somewhere in Manhattan, often north of 42 Street. Sometimes it actually leaves within a few minutes of the posted time, but it's either a hit or miss.

 

With the QM's, PM buses to Midtown used to leave late, causing a backup and delays in service. It's retarded to see two QM5's via Fresh Meadows seconds apart from each other in the evening. That hasn't been happening as much, but it happens once in a while. 

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The bus is becoming a joke to ride. I'm not suprised it's going down because next year I'm done as well. With regular local bus routes, bus drivers drive too damnn slow. People argue "oh its to stay on schedule", then adjust the schedule. I hate getting on a bus that moves 5-10mph holding up traffic and stopping at "yellow" lights (stoppin before the light turns red). Also, these buses are getting too packed, and there's always a bus missing from the schedule. C'mon son, there should be a bus for every scheduled time no matter if it's early or late. I hate "no shows". Then, you have the buses that are "packed" but are really only packed to the back door because people can't move to the rear. Some bus drivers can't even tell them to move to the back so now he/she puts up "next bus please", and bypasses stops. That shyt urks me, and probably other people as well which is why ridership is going down.

 

Also, another reason why ridership is "going down" is because of more consistent fare-beaters. Its like "oh you don't have your fare, whatever", (and the B/O just lets them get on). So people are getting used to beating the system. Another thing is those SBS buses. The Bx12, Bx41, and B44 are fare-beater heaven. In my opinion, not enough fare patrol. I've rode SBS buses over 50 times and NEVER seen someone inspect tickets, (only seen it on YouTube videos), so obviously if people see a chance to board the bus for free, they will. I've seen people run for SBS buses and board through the back doors without paying and go about their day. It's the little things that need to be fixed. Also, these new taxi apps such as UBER, etc, are killin the game. Those cars come faster than a bus and it's usually a one seat ride. When people are commuting, they like to get there fast. The bus nowadays is just too slow.

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I took a ride on the Q66 yesterday this operator stopped at every yellow light possible & even on a solid green he stopped. & his speed did not go past 22 mph. I used speed app. He also drive the bus with 2 hands, I tried

To talk to her when bus was moving I got no reply as always. Now at northern blvd & 90st 3 guys

Come on didn't say nothing to the operator, & of

Course the operator said nothing, I was thinking about saying something but was scared too. The reason why ridership

Is down is because of fare beaters, if everybody actually paid

Then ridership would be threw the roof, mta only counts cash & metro card "beeps" when you pay. Mta should base ridership on paying & non-paying passengers, also the traffic lights on northern blvd now is 2 green lights the time

The operator gets to the next light it's a yellow Turning red, c'mon why couldn't she just speed past the yellow light & make it down

To the next 5 green lights I don't get it. If operators went past yellow

Lights and drove faster then buses would be on schedule.

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I took a ride on the Q66 yesterday this operator stopped at every yellow light possible & even on a solid green he stopped. & his speed did not go past 22 mph. I used speed app. He also drive the bus with 2 hands, I tried

To talk to her when bus was moving I got no reply as always. Now at northern blvd & 90st 3 guys

Come on didn't say nothing to the operator, & of

Course the operator said nothing, I was thinking about saying something but was scared too. The reason why ridership

Is down is because of fare beaters, if everybody actually paid

Then ridership would be threw the roof, mta only counts cash & metro card "beeps" when you pay. Mta should base ridership on paying & non-paying passengers, also the traffic lights on northern blvd now is 2 green lights the time

The operator gets to the next light it's a yellow Turning red, c'mon why couldn't she just speed past the yellow light & make it down

To the next 5 green lights I don't get it. If operators went past yellow

Lights and drove faster then buses would be on schedule.

Some questions for you John. What is the speed limit on the street where the Q66 operates ?  You are aware that a Bus Operator or any other driver is supposed to use both hands aren't you? Why would you attempt to hold a conversation with a Bus Operator on a moving bus ? Do you really think that any operator/driver encountering a yellow signal is supposed to speed up? Are you trolling us? Wow, just wow. I've had a  NYS Class 1 license( before CDL) for 45 years but I'm sure things haven't changed to your way of thinking. Carry on.

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Bus ridership never really recovered (as a whole; system-wide) since the "doomsday" cuts..... Whenever you kill some (or all) service on a route & opt to later bring it back in (in full or in part), you never really recover the lost ridership that existed before the cuts took place..... There is a common quote that goes "Give people more service & they will ride it" - Uh, well, what took place in 2010 & the effects that lingered from it that is still affecting bus ridership (system-wide) here in 2015 is basically the converse of that quote....Take away service & you'll lose the riders.

 

As far as the subway is concerned, not only has there been an over-glorification if it, but a downright indirect forcing of riders onto it on top of it..... The former is bringing more & more transients; hipsters, tourists, yuppies, etc., and the latter has affected a lot of native NY-ers.... Combine those two things, and you more or less have what you have with record subway ridership in this city & what not.....

 

...and let's be honest here, newcomers to most urban cities are not going to take the bus over rapid transit.... The bus still have a negative stigma attached to it that I personally don't see ever ridding itself of......

 

To sum it up, you have to discern:

 

- The declining bus ridership of the NY-ers that were here before the apparent & constant hipsterization/yuppification of this city

...and...

- The bus ridership of hipsters & yuppies that have migrated from a whole 'nother local region (i.e. NYC suburbs), state (i.e. some other state outside the tri-state area), or region, abroad (in other words, another country)......

---------------

 

(Vehicular) Traffic is a secondary issue that's really driving folks from off buses & onto the subway (even the LIRR/MNRR).... I hate to say it, but I actually think there's an increase (albeit minor) of native NY-ers taking the railroad w/i NYC over the subway, since riders are getting fed up with the problems with the subway as well - and it's not just the overcrowding either.....

 

Something else that's secondary is the advent/advocation of bike travel & the Uber's/Lyft's of the world taking away riders not only from off buses, but mass transit in this city in general.....

 

Don't let my use of the word secondary fool you; there has been so much lost ridership to buses in this city with those occurrences/happenings (both paragraphs above) - But the way I see it, It started with the MTA's negligence of advocating (and seriously giving enough of a damn to enchance the bus network/system) bus travel in this city, and there's been a snowball/avalanche effect in regards to declining ridership ever since...

 

....and that's been happening LONG before 2010.

 

 

- General B35 via Church, out....

(yeah, I brought that ending back.... Lol)

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Heck I've even seen the homeless bums ride the LIRR....

They're definitely more noticeable, particularly in areas that you don't usually see them... More and more of them on Park Avenue.... Several weeks ago I was at one of my Euro café's.  Just went to get some sugar for my macchiato.  I'm maybe a few steps away from my laptop bag and this young white guy comes out of nowhere and peeks into the outer part of my bag where I had a pain aux raisins to take with me to my office.  Before I knew it I was ready to bounce on the kid and beat the living crap out of him.  He goes oh I was looking for something.  I told him in a stern voice that that wasn't his bag and gave him the look as if to say you take one more step and I'm going to beat the crap out of you.  Then I look down and the kid has no friggin' shoes or socks on!! He walks back to the sit-down area and takes a seat like he's ready to order.  By then someone had come out to escort him out of the establishment.  Me and the white chick that I had my bag next to looked at each other in disbelief like what is wrong with this guy and why is he being allowed to walk around in an expensive café like this?  With all of the fare beating going on, I'm sure more of them will be riding on the buses too, even though ridership on buses will continue to "decline".

 

I blame all of this on de Blasio.  His Vision Zero plan is slowing down the speeds of buses even more and women in particular are afraid to use public transit so they're ditching the local buses and taking cabs or the express bus where possible.  There's ZERO enforcement to keep the vagrants and miscreants in line, and cops are backing off from tackling quality of life issues because of the whole Stop and Frisk nonsense.  There's an older woman who I take the express bus with at night.  She said she was walking along Madison Avenue, and some homeless guy came out of nowhere and tried to snatch her purse off of her shoulder.  Even as we were waiting for the express bus some deranged looking guy started hanging around. I kept my eye on him for the both of us and dared him to come closer. 

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Bus ridership is going down simply due to buses not showing up on time. When this constantly happens all the time people avoid the bus and find other ways of getting home. I have several stories of buses not running correctly. I spend most of my time in Queens so I only know what goes on in Queens but I'm sure it happens all the time in other boroughs.

 

One good example is the Q25 any night after 9pm. If you wait at Jamaica and Parsons Blvd and look at the guide a ride you will notice how buses are suppose to run about every 20 minutes. However buses almost always never show up until 15 minutes after the scheduled time. So if I got to the bus stop at 9:12 the Q25 is suppose to come at 9:20, never happens. The bus comes at 9:35 and that is five minutes before the next bus is suppose to show up. So everyone crowds on the first bus and the second bus that shows up a few minutes later pretty much runs empty. When services runs like that nobody wants to use the bus. Despite all of that the Q25's ridership continues to grow some how. The Q17 is a route that has seen a decrease in ridership every year since 2011. The problem with that route is that service to Jamaica is underserved and Flushing service is over served which is also served by the Q25/Q34. Plus you also have those annoying 15 to 20 minute waits during rush hour which is suppose to be only 5-7 minutes.

The only way to get all those lost riders back is to improve service and show that buses can show up close to schedule instead of constantly late.

 

I am curious to know what bus routes have bad on time performance.

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In flushing, there is traffic very heavy, buses can never stay on schedule. now with speed limit 25 mph & if you notice all traffic lights are on a new pattern, one green one red, this slows down buses to a crawl, all in the name of safety.

After 9pm it is not that bad. I know sometimes the bus is already at Jamaica but for some reason that bus driver waits for the second bus to come and purposely bunch up which isn't fair. The bus is suppose to come at 9:20 not 9:40 with the second Q25 not so far behind.
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The bus is becoming a joke to ride. I'm not suprised it's going down because next year I'm done as well. With regular local bus routes, bus drivers drive too damnn slow. People argue "oh its to stay on schedule", then adjust the schedule. I hate getting on a bus that moves 5-10mph holding up traffic and stopping at "yellow" lights (stoppin before the light turns red). Also, these buses are getting too packed, and there's always a bus missing from the schedule. C'mon son, there should be a bus for every scheduled time no matter if it's early or late. I hate "no shows". Then, you have the buses that are "packed" but are really only packed to the back door because people can't move to the rear. Some bus drivers can't even tell them to move to the back so now he/she puts up "next bus please", and bypasses stops. That shyt urks me, and probably other people as well which is why ridership is going down.

Also, another reason why ridership is "going down" is because of more consistent fare-beaters. Its like "oh you don't have your fare, whatever", (and the B/O just lets them get on). So people are getting used to beating the system. Another thing is those SBS buses. The Bx12, Bx41, and B44 are fare-beater heaven. In my opinion, not enough fare patrol. I've rode SBS buses over 50 times and NEVER seen someone inspect tickets, (only seen it on YouTube videos), so obviously if people see a chance to board the bus for free, they will. I've seen people run for SBS buses and board through the back doors without paying and go about their day. It's the little things that need to be fixed. Also, these new taxi apps such as UBER, etc, are killin the game. Those cars come faster than a bus and it's usually a one seat ride. When people are commuting, they like to get there fast. The bus nowadays is just too slow.

You hit it on the head...ridership is not down....it's fare beating is up...sbs is a fare beaters heaven...no worries I'm f5 all day now...before I was f6 fare dump....sooner or later they will have to address this issue...

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You hit it on the head...ridership is not down....it's fare beating is up...sbs is a fare beaters heaven...no worries I'm f5 all day now...before I was f6 fare dump....sooner or later they will have to address this issue...

Ridership is down on some buses, but farebeating is indeed a problem.  There's this white trash guy that gets on at one of the stops that I use along Henry Hudson Parkway in Riverdale, which is an expensive area, so I was shocked to see it, but I get the feeling that this guy is just trying to get over and get a free ride. I see him sometimes on weekends waiting at the stop.  Last Sunday, I walk over to one of the stops to take a trip to Whole Foods and who do I see.  I said oh great, I thought this guy only takes the BxM2 with this nonsense, but apparently he tries whatever express bus he can where the driver will let him on.  This was a BxM1, so I get on watching him to make sure he doesn't try anything, dip my card and then look at the driver as if to say, are you going to let that prick ride for free?  So he gets on and even though I'm all the way in the back I can hear him and the female B/O (black chick). She goes do you have the fare?  He responds with some sob story and she goes, "Sorry no free ride today", in a firm but professional tone, and he gets off putting on a sad face.  I said it's about time.

 

I've seen him other times and he pays to ride the local bus, but perhaps doesn't have enough to get to the city at times so he tries to ride on the express bus.  Either way I want it stopped. I don't want these seedy types riding.  I pay over $200.00 to ride the express bus a month and I'll be damned if I'm going to sit back and let these people get on for free.  When I see it (which is rare on the Riverdale express buses) I report the driver if they give them a pass without warning them.  It's one thing to let it happen on the local bus with those crazies, but I am not letting my commute be sullied by these low lives.  They can either pay the $6.50, or walk or take the damn local bus.

 

I know of a few B/Os that will let it slide once and that I understand too because here in Riverdale we only have one store that sells Metrocards and they are often out which makes paying difficult, and I've been in that spot too and  was waved on by a regular B/O, but it should NOT be a constant thing where they get on and just want a free ride.

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As far as reliability of buses go, i chalk it up to a combination of driver preference (you put two B/Os on a route and if one does 25-30mph and another does 15-20, they're bound to bunch up), unrealistic scheduling of run times for buses, and the (MTA) itself for not improving service sufficiently to meet the demand, especially on the higher ridership routes.

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As far as reliability of buses go, i chalk it up to a combination of driver preference (you put two B/Os on a route and if one does 25-30mph and another does 15-20, they're bound to bunch up), unrealistic scheduling of run times for buses, and the (MTA) itself for not improving service sufficiently to meet the demand, especially on the higher ridership routes.

More good observations.

I'd suppose, even in a public transit-centric city like NYC, the MTA people doing scheduling don't really use the system enough to actually have a feel for making it run efficiently.  (Or maybe they just use the Express Bus to get to/from the MTA office *cough cough*.)

As for the operators, they've got the convenient excuse of "traffic" causing them to not run according to schedule, plus a sotra "so what" attitude, because there's no enforcement of running on time.

While your buses run slow because of overcrowding, long dwell times, traffic issues, ours run slow on some routes because of the scheduled times that make the operators drive slow to stay on time.  Irritating to ride the curb lane at 35 mph in a 45 mph zone with cars flying by, reinforcing the "bus travel is slow" idea, and inefficient as well since maybe an extra run or two could be created if the times were adjusted.

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In flushing, there is traffic very heavy, buses can never stay on schedule. now with speed limit 25 mph & if you notice all traffic lights are on a new pattern, one green one red, this slows down buses to a crawl, all in the name of safety.

 

The speed limit is irrelevant because nothing ever achieves 25 mph in Flushing. 

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Don't pay him any attention.  This is the same individual that thinks that there should outlets on local buses.  <_<

 

That sounds like a great way for a curious five year old to electrocute themselves, never mind that a bus probably doesn't have enough battery to be used as a moving charging station.

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