R211 Discussion Thread

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I'm not stating my opinion based on subway line-subway car preference. The r68's are my favorite subway car, but that is not the point.

The point is that the MTA made the wrong move of installing CBTC on segments of the subway system and not installing CBTC on the whole system. That is why any remaining SMEE's need to operate on lines that do not run or get rerouted thorough sections that have CBTC installed.

The best thing the MTA can do in addition to install CBTC on the whole system, is to purchase enough r211's and r262's to replace all SMEE's on the A and B division.

 

In terms of car assignments, the A, E and F trains are the best candidates for the r211T's due to high ridership. As for the rest of the r211's, it will depend on where CBTC is installed.

I'm aware that the MTA is currently working on installing CBTC on QBL, 8th Avenue and Culver. I'm not aware of other segments of the system where CBTC is currently being installed. 

Also, we are still in a pandemic and we have a new administration in the federal government, so things are still subject to change.

Edited January 20, 2021 by subwaycommuter1983

[Jemorie]

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

That's because 8th Avenue is not CBTC yet. The real issue will happen when CBTC on 8th Avenue is complete. 

The MTA did a dumb mistake of excluding 6th Avenue from getting CBTC.

Nothing is going stop them from rerouting  trains via 8th Avenue either way. I hope you realize CBTC isn’t a one and done thing. There could be many other things delaying CBTC like what we saw with Canarsie and Flushing. In Canarsie’s case, they didn’t had enough R143s to increase  service so they waited till the R160 order to continue the process until CBTC was fully activated on Canarsie in 2012.

[Jemorie]

3 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

And while changing the rollsigns does increase dwell times at Ditmars, it wouldn’t matter that much in the grand scheme of things because the rollsigns are right next to each other.

It does matter. You can’t have trains dwell at Ditmars and leave behind schedule. Trains leaving their terminals late can lead to delays down the line with other trains they merge with. Trains leaving their terminals late can lead to potential overcrowding as more and more people show up on the platforms and start holding doors, delaying the train as well as other trains behind them. Trains leaving their terminals late mean slow service overall.

I love how some of you guys here in general  want to act like the  and  don’t have the same issues the  and  do when it comes to sharing the same yard and terminal and just brush it off just as, until you start riding the lines or better yet, working on the lines.

Back to this R211 topic, if they go to Jamaica, they should be only for the  and . If they go to Coney Island, they should only be for the . But if by any chance they also end up on the  and , big deal. Who cares.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Jemorie

[R32 3838]

I wrote this on my facebook page, I ment to copy and paste to here earlier but my phone died

 

Here's my final R211 predictions

Base order R211A

140 Pitkin (to full to void of the retired R32's and push for the C to be 100% R46 temporarily)

300 Coney Island (to replace the 75% of the R46 fleet)

Base order R211T

20 Jamaica

Option Order (R211T)

Jamaica gets all 640 cars

Option order 2 (R211T)

200 Pitkin

205 concourse (or Coney Island)

32 ENY

R160's from jamaica are split between Coney island and 207th st

207th st would be 100% R160,

8843-9102 (Siemens) I see going to 207th (260 cars)

Whatever R160 at Jamaica would go to CI (380 cars)

130 R179 cars stay at pitkin

8 car R179's goes back to ENY.

Of course this could all be wrong but I think this would make the most sense.

The A would be a mixture of R160 (put ins like the R32's) ,R179 and R211A/T

I would just give 207th the Siemens for the C. 260 cars is more than enough for full C service plus a healthy spare factor. Plus it's all underground and isolates this group of R160's to 1 yard.

Again this is just speculation and A PREDICTION. Don't go extra hard

[Deucey]

On 1/19/2021 at 6:40 PM, Bosco said:

 

 

As the pics (you took) constitute a “leak”, I’ve removed them.

 hasn’t issued any authorizations for release of R211 interiors to the public, so that made them inappropriate for posting here.

Additionally, if you haven’t noticed from the January 6 Assault on the US Capitol, all arrested so far shared images, video, and confessions written or audio confirming they were inside. Telling us you took unauthorized photos and that you were “playing around” with the equipment wasn’t/isn’t a good idea.

Don’t post unauthorized company work product - it can keep you from losing your job, having some charges made against you, and keeps NYCTF from enduring negative actions from  and related entities.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Deucey

[Storm]

11 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

I wrote this on my facebook page, I ment to copy and paste to here earlier but my phone died

 

Here's my final R211 predictions

Base order R211A

140 Pitkin (to full to void of the retired R32's and push for the C to be 100% R46 temporarily)

300 Coney Island (to replace the 75% of the R46 fleet)

Base order R211T

20 Jamaica

Option Order (R211T)

Jamaica gets all 640 cars

Option order 2 (R211T)

200 Pitkin

205 concourse (or Coney Island)

32 ENY

R160's from jamaica are split between Coney island and 207th st

207th st would be 100% R160,

8843-9102 (Siemens) I see going to 207th (260 cars)

Whatever R160 at Jamaica would go to CI (380 cars)

130 R179 cars stay at pitkin

8 car R179's goes back to ENY.

Of course this could all be wrong but I think this would make the most sense.

The A would be a mixture of R160 (put ins like the R32's) ,R179 and R211A/T

I would just give 207th the Siemens for the C. 260 cars is more than enough for full C service plus a healthy spare factor. Plus it's all underground and isolates this group of R160's to 1 yard.

Again this is just speculation and A PREDICTION. Don't go extra hard

well, I mean, maybe. The the R160b's from Coney could go onto the  for service, while retiring the SMEE's on the . Any base order cars would be split between Pitkin and C.I, because the primary goal of the r211 order is to replace all remaining r46's. I agree with you that only 260 cars from Jamaica are enough to run the , so if we were to take that into consideration, i think 39% of the Siemens should go to service on the , and the remaining siemens should go to C.I for service on the . Any base order cars coming to coney should go directly to the , because the whole fleet is r46. Now, Jamaica should keep about 80% of its alstoms, and the other 20% should go to Coney. So, in total, the  would have 440 siemens and 200 alstom to run on the , plus some r68/a's. Now for the . If this were to happen, they would have let go about 60% of their r160s.  I think they should get all of option order 1, and a little of option 2. Any additional 4 car units or 5 car units, could go to ENY for the  or concourse for the . This is a prediction, not the truth.

[Deucey]

50 minutes ago, Deucey said:

As the pics (you took) constitute a “leak”, I’ve removed them.

 hasn’t issued any authorizations for release of R211 interiors to the public, so that made them inappropriate for posting here.

Additionally, if you haven’t noticed from the January 6 Assault on the US Capitol, all arrested so far shared images, video, and confessions written or audio confirming they were inside. Telling us you took unauthorized photos and that you were “playing around” with the equipment wasn’t/isn’t a good idea.

Don’t post unauthorized company work product - it can keep you from losing your job, having some charges made against you, and keeps NYCTF from enduring negative actions from  and related entities.

Adding to this, I’ve mostly removed posts that quoted details of the R211 features in the unauthorized pictures. If you see any that I’ve missed, please report that post.

[Don Brown]

On 1/20/2021 at 11:23 PM, R32 3838 said:

I wrote this on my facebook page, I ment to copy and paste to here earlier but my phone died

 

Here's my final R211 predictions

Base order R211A

140 Pitkin (to full to void of the retired R32's and push for the C to be 100% R46 temporarily)

300 Coney Island (to replace the 75% of the R46 fleet)

Base order R211T

20 Jamaica

Option Order (R211T)

Jamaica gets all 640 cars

Option order 2 (R211T)

200 Pitkin

205 concourse (or Coney Island)

32 ENY

R160's from jamaica are split between Coney island and 207th st

207th st would be 100% R160,

8843-9102 (Siemens) I see going to 207th (260 cars)

Whatever R160 at Jamaica would go to CI (380 cars)

130 R179 cars stay at pitkin

8 car R179's goes back to ENY.

Of course this could all be wrong but I think this would make the most sense.

The A would be a mixture of R160 (put ins like the R32's) ,R179 and R211A/T

I would just give 207th the Siemens for the C. 260 cars is more than enough for full C service plus a healthy spare factor. Plus it's all underground and isolates this group of R160's to 1 yard.

Again this is just speculation and A PREDICTION. Don't go extra hard

I take that since the R32s and R42s are now all retired, the R211 family is going to only kill off the remaining R44s (SIR) and the R46s with the rest going towards fleet expansion? 

[R32 3838]

4 hours ago, Don Brown said:

I take that since the R32s and R42s are now all retired, the R211 family is going to only kill off the remaining R44s (SIR) and the R46s with the rest going towards fleet expansion? 

 

These are replacing the remaining 130 R32's, SI R44's and the the entire R46 fleet, we will have extra 32 8 car units for the and an extra 4 to 500 cars. if all options are taken subway wise. We would have 1,537 R211's, only need 940 to replace the R46's. 75 cars are for the SIR

[subwaycommuter1983]

8 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

These are replacing the remaining 130 R32's, SI R44's and the the entire R46 fleet, we will have extra 32 8 car units for the and an extra 4 to 500 cars. if all options are taken subway wise. We would have 1,537 R211's, only need 940 to replace the R46's. 75 cars are for the SIR

 I think the MTA should purchase more than 1,537 R211's. 2,000 R211's sound ambitious, but that number of cars will be enough to retire all r32's, r44's, r46's and r68's and provide fleet expansion.

It would be much faster for the MTA to replace the r68's with additional r211's, than just doing a separate car order aka "r268".

The MTA needs to stop focusing so much on the present and focus more on the future. In fact, the MTA should set a goal for 2030 to have a subway fleet of 100% NTT's, and most importantly to have CBTC installed in the entire system.

[R32 3838]

23 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

 I think the MTA should purchase more than 1,537 R211's. 2,000 R211's sound ambitious, but that number of cars will be enough to retire all r32's, r44's, r46's and r68's and provide fleet expansion.

It would be much faster for the MTA to replace the r68's with additional r211's, than just doing a separate car order aka "r268".

The MTA needs to stop focusing so much on the present and focus more on the future. In fact, the MTA should set a goal for 2030 to have a subway fleet of 100% NTT's, and most importantly to have CBTC installed in the entire system.

we getting a total of 1,612 cars, with 1,537 of them being for the subway.

 

I do agree that we need to replace just about everything. No one understands the mental gymnastics that has to go through with car assignments to keep older subway cars off CBTC active areas. with them wanting to make Astoria CBTC with it ending at 57th/7th is only gonna make things more complicated.

 

this means the will be the only lines that would have to keep R68's (since 6th ave CBTC is put on hold) while the as well as the has to be 100% tech trains. and even then if something goes down on 6th ave, the is screwed or it has to go up broadway to 96th st now.

 

right now I think the priority is to to make the 100% tech. The 53rd st tube has its signals covered up. So if anything happens now, the or can't use 53rd st since their cars aren't cbtc active on top of using R46's.

 

 

[R10 2952]

27 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

 I think the MTA should purchase more than 1,537 R211's. 2,000 R211's sound ambitious, but that number of cars will be enough to retire all r32's, r44's, r46's and r68's and provide fleet expansion.

It would be much faster for the MTA to replace the r68's with additional r211's, than just doing a separate car order aka "r268".

The MTA needs to stop focusing so much on the present and focus more on the future. In fact, the MTA should set a goal for 2030 to have a subway fleet of 100% NTT's, and most importantly to have CBTC installed in the entire system.

And just where exactly would they be getting the money for this?

Ridership is still way down (will be years before it recovers), and the Senate Republicans still have the filibuster, so trust and believe those jerks will use all opportunities at their disposal to limit the Democrats' ability to provide federal financial support towards public transit.

As for the R68/As, they're doing fine; go tell MTA management to get rid of them a decade early when the agency's strapped for cash- they'll laugh in your face.

Some of you seem to have no concept of how the real world works whatsoever.

[bulk88]

On 1/20/2021 at 3:06 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I'm aware that the MTA is currently working on installing CBTC on QBL, 8th Avenue and Culver. I'm not aware of other segments of the system where CBTC is currently being installed. 

95 street/86 Street R train have CBTC antennas in the stations with no explanation.

[jon2305]

The entire R211 order is to replace the NYCT R46's & SIR R44's ONLY. An actual fleet replacement for the R68/R68A's is yet to be planned & announced.

Unless there's considerable mechanical or structure damage happening to the R68/68A's, I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon. At least not within this current decade.

Edited January 24, 2021 by jon2305

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, bulk88 said:

95 street/86 Street R train have CBTC antennas in the stations with no explanation.

Explanation required to whom?

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

 I think the MTA should purchase more than 1,537 R211's. 2,000 R211's sound ambitious, but that number of cars will be enough to retire all r32's, r44's, r46's and r68's and provide fleet expansion.

It would be much faster for the MTA to replace the r68's with additional r211's, than just doing a separate car order aka "r268".

The MTA needs to stop focusing so much on the present and focus more on the future. In fact, the MTA should set a goal for 2030 to have a subway fleet of 100% NTT's, and most importantly to have CBTC installed in the entire system.

In order to be focused on the future, the MTA would need a boatload of capital money?  Just from whom who would they get that from?

Money does not grow on trees.

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, R10 2952 said:

And just where exactly would they be getting the money for this?

Ridership is still way down (will be years before it recovers), and the Senate Republicans still have the filibuster, so trust and believe those jerks will use all opportunities at their disposal to limit the Democrats' ability to provide federal financial support towards public transit.

 

We said this in 2010 and as soon as we did service cuts, the ridership went up due to the redeveloped areas in long island city and in western Brooklyn.

While I do agree it might take some time for ridership to grow, we can't have this "oh the ridership won't grow until years later" Attitude. NYC is a Big city, i rode the train a few days ago to the bronx  during the early rush hour and it was packed. so ridership on certain lines has come back to normal levels.

 

If the Libs have it their way in NYC, Congestion pricing will happen Just for that lost NYC revenue and that would drive up ridership again.

28 minutes ago, jon2305 said:

The entire R211 order is to replace the NYCT R46's & SIR R44's ONLY. An actual fleet replacement for the R68/R68A's is yet to be planned & announced.

Unless there's considerable mechanical or structure damage happening to the R68/68A's, I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon. At least not within this current decade.

The order is also replacing the remaining Half of the r32's. The R179's replaced Half of the R32's, all 50 r42's and the void left from the R44's that weren't replaced with R160's. We had a car 7 year car shortage (2010-2017) The R211 order is the bridge that closes that car shortage gap completely.

 

As for the R68's

 

If We don't see service Extensions like the to brooklyn and etc. and all options are taken, They could replace or move 60% of the r68 fleet into storage. they only need 940 R211's to replace all of the R46's. the first 110-130 R211's are R32 replacements. 32 extra 8 car units for ENY, this would leave 435 to 455 extra R211's enough to push out concourse's R68's into storage.

 

I'm confident they will do both option orders, But they can also modify the order as well to reduce the amount of cars we can get.

Edited January 24, 2021 by R32 3838

[subwaycommuter1983]

28 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

We said this in 2010 and as soon as we did service cuts, the ridership went up due to the redeveloped areas in long island city and in western Brooklyn.

While I do agree it might take some time for ridership to grow, we can't have this "oh the ridership won't grow until years later" Attitude. NYC is a Big city, i rode the train a few days ago to the bronx  during the early rush hour and it was packed. so ridership on certain lines has come back to normal levels.

 

If the Libs have it their way in NYC, Congestion pricing will happen Just for that lost NYC revenue and that would drive up ridership again.

The order is also replacing the remaining Half of the r32's. The R179's replaced Half of the R32's, all 50 r42's and the void left from the R44's that weren't replaced with R160's. We had a car 7 year car shortage (2010-2017) The R211 order is the bridge that closes that car shortage gap completely.

 

As for the R68's

 

If We don't see service Extensions like the to brooklyn and etc. and all options are taken, They could replace or move 60% of the r68 fleet into storage. they only need 940 R211's to replace all of the R46's. the first 110-130 R211's are R32 replacements. 32 extra 8 car units for ENY, this would leave 435 to 455 extra R211's enough to push out concourse's R68's into storage.

 

I'm confident they will do both option orders, But they can also modify the order as well to reduce the amount of cars we can get.

Yes!! Thank you for sharing this!! 

The reason why there was a car shortage in 2010 was because the MTA was too focused on what was happening at that time, instead on focusing on the future.

Ridership is still low, but it is higher than it was last summer and ridership will continue to increase.

The r68's are currently in much better shape than the r46's, but will it stay that way in 2028, when all r68's hit 40 years??

Edited January 24, 2021 by subwaycommuter1983

[subwaycommuter1983]

39 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

In order to be focused on the future, the MTA would need a boatload of capital money?  Just from whom who would they get that from?

Money does not grow on trees.

The money needs to come from the federal government. It's a challenge, but the MTA, city, state and the riders need to put more political pressure to the federal government, so that more funding is provided for the MTA.

[bobtehpanda]

(Or the MTA could figure out how to keep costs under control, but that would be inconvenient.)

[LTA1992]

2 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

In order to be focused on the future, the MTA would need a boatload of capital money?  Just from whom who would they get that from?

Money does not grow on trees.

Well, depending on who you are.

The Federal Reserve types millions into existence every day.

[Around the Horn]

10 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

 I think the MTA should purchase more than 1,537 R211's. 2,000 R211's sound ambitious, but that number of cars will be enough to retire all r32's, r44's, r46's and r68's and provide fleet expansion.

It would be much faster for the MTA to replace the r68's with additional r211's, than just doing a separate car order aka "r268".

I'm pretty sure Kawasaki does not have the space nor personnel to produce all these extra R211s. They were already considered pretty much out of the running for the R262 contract...

[Vulturious]

58 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I'm pretty sure Kawasaki does not have the space nor personnel to produce all these extra R211s. They were already considered pretty much out of the running for the R262 contract...

Oh wait, they won the contract for the R262's? It would be interesting on what they do with them. I'm hoping they improve on that train from the R211's such as the displays for example, like having them as LCD displays instead of LED displays. The LED displays are a disappointment on the R211's with the route bullet just looking too small which could've been bigger, the destination display on the front in general is too small as well (the mockup was bigger than that) the side displays also being LED's didn't need to be a thing. I'm mainly just disappointed with displays honestly, I do like the FIND being LCD and how it's on every door which is convenient. I guess the storm door window could've been wider, I don't know why it's narrow as hell. I also just realized there wasn't a leaked photo about the overhead displays in the interior of the train, I'm assuming it's also LED which is going to be a disappointment. If it's LCD, that would be very surprising.

[Trainmaster5]

I'm going out on a limb here but by the time CBTC is fully implemented I think the original Canarsie and Flushing systems will be obsolete and in need of replacement. Just my opinion.  Carry on. 

[Railfanner Mario]

16 hours ago, bulk88 said:

95 street/86 Street R train have CBTC antennas in the stations with no explanation.

Most of the BMT/IND system either has Transponders/antennas on the Tracks and wall to get ready for the NTT to start CBTC testing to get things done more quickly 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Railfanner Mario