NYC pols urge MTA to audit 'completely unpredictable' R train after riders’ complaints...

[Mysterious2train]

Daily News article on the saga:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-pols-letter-urges-mta-audit-unpredictable-line-article-1.2494313 

NYC pols urge MTA to audit 'completely unpredictable' R train after riders' complaints of regular delays

 

The R train has a bad rep — a common joke is that it stands for “Rarely,” because trains are often late and overall service has declined.

So a group of 40 elected officials who represent Manhattan, Queens and Brooklyn wrote a letter to Metropolitan Transportation Authority boss Tom Prendergast on Monday asking for an audit of the R line to find ways to improve service.

“We've heard a number of community concerns about the R train,” the elected officials wrote. “The R train serves many communities for which it is one of the only transit options.”

 

The Straphangers Campaign and the Riders Alliance, a grassroots transit group, also signed onto the letter, organized by State Sen. Daniel Squadron (D-Manhattan/Brooklyn) and Councilman Vincent Gentile (D-Brooklyn).

Lisa Levy, a Riders Alliance member from Bay Ridge, complained about the spotty service and lack of communication with riders during service disruptions.

“It’s completely unpredictable about how long it will be between trains,” said Levy, a nonprofit worker in lower Manhattan. “It makes it very difficult to go about your daily life.”

Roughly a quarter of weekday R trains arrive to their station late, according to the latest MTA operations stats. That is a lower rate of performance than the subway systemwide and other lettered lines.

The R line also has a weak score, towards the bottom of the pack of all lines, for three main performance benchmarks.

The lawmakers who signed the letter believe a review of the R line would allow the MTA to find ways to improve service, like it did on other lines, most recently, the A and C.

“This full line review can't be as delayed as an R train commute,” said Squadron, who got the MTA to launch its previous full line reviews.

 

But MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz said the R train riders will have to get in line, because the agency is likely to pick a numbered train next. Ortiz also said that any review of the R line would be “obsolete almost immediately” once the Second Ave. subway opens in December.

“The opening of Second Avenue Subway will affect how many people ride the R and how the R operates, so it would be premature for us to conduct an R line review on the cusp of such a change,” he said.

Gentile, who has been collecting subway horror stories from his constituents on the R line, said that riders cannot wait that long.

“I don’t think there’s any other line that comes close to the fervor of requests that have been made about the R line,” he said.

 

[P3F]

Audit the and while you're at it. They're suspiciously local.

[jon2305]

If they are considering picking a numbered line next, I suggest looking into the .

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm not sure what the SAS has to do with train usage. The being extended to 96th Street would help some Broadway riders who take the to 59th/Lex for the , but otherwise, I'm not really seeing the connection. Maybe a few riders would take the to DeKalb for the instead of going to Atlantic for the or something, but even then, it's not going to be so many people that it alters the overall picture of the line.

 

Audit the and while you're at it. They're suspiciously local.

 

I think the already had a review a little while ago. 

 

And I think train riders do have a legitimate complaint (having used the many times to connect to/from the Staten Island buses). Some of the things are just plain stupid (closing the doors just as an is pulling into 59th Street southbound or vice versa, sending the shuttle in front of the or at night so people have to wait an extra 20 minutes, etc)

 

If they are considering picking a numbered line next, I suggest looking into the .

 

I would tend to agree.

[R10 2952]

An line review would be as ineffective as the (A)/© review [i thought they'd at least have the sense to move the C out to Lefferts].  Let them review the instead-  so many battery runs they might as well run it express between 145th and 96th.  

[MysteriousBtrain]

I think the could run better on the weekends. It usually takes 15-20 min on a weekend to catch an whenever I have to use it. It has a fair amount of stops to itself, especially on weekends, so I think the line can definitely improve.

[Tokkemon]

Ok, yeah, I live in Bay Ridge so I rely on the for my morning commute to downtown. It is ridiculously unpredictable and delays ripple throughout the system and 15-20 minute waits because of a delay during Rush Hour are not uncommon. It's really unacceptable and the needs to at least try to fix it.

[West End]

The has a strong reputation of being slow and delayed, and an audit of the line needs to be conducted. It's ridiculously unreliable.

 

That being said, I understand the decision to hold off on any reviews until after the Second Ave. line opens (on the condition that it opens on time). Assuming that pre-2010 service patterns would return, the 's schedule will be altered in Lower Manhattan by the , and the would no longer use the track switches north of Canal St. on weekdays, easing some of the congestion.

[BreeddekalbL]

hell i wonder what would connecting the to SI do for it?

[Wallyhorse]

And this is why they need to do the Sandy repairs on the Nassau portion of the Montauge tunnel:

Then as I would do it, I would make the a full-time line running from 95th Street:
To Broadway Junction weekdays (5:30 AM-11:00 PM)
To Metropolitan Avenue all other times (late nights and weekends).

That eliminates the shuttle late nights and the shuttle late nights and weekends and also supplements the in Bay Ridge.

While it does (in this case) eliminate skip-stop on the , that could be worked on separately.

It would at least solve the issue in Brooklyn having a second line.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ok, yeah, I live in Bay Ridge so I rely on the for my morning commute to downtown. It is ridiculously unpredictable and delays ripple throughout the system and 15-20 minute waits because of a delay during Rush Hour are not uncommon. It's really unacceptable and the needs to at least try to fix it.

LMAO.... You do have the express bus but you choose to put up with the crappy .  When I considered moving to Bay Ridge years ago, I immediately thought about the and how FAR away I would move from it.  The place I considered was along Shore Rd near 92nd, right near the X27 and X37.  In any event, I don't see what in the hell SAS has to do with the service.  Ortiz is just looking for a lame excuse to excuse shoddy service and they don't want to address the because ridership isn't booming. I suspect that trains are being pulled from service or aren't making service.  I simply don't see how the could be so delayed at all hours of the day and night.  It's very suspect.  Even when the has shuttle service the waits are insane.  20 minutes minimum between trains is just ridiculous.

[trainfan22]

I remember they use to lay up trains between 57th and Lex - 63rd before SAS construction started...  Maybe they plan to layup trains on the SAS layup tracks, and try and schedule them to get put in service when service gaps happen the most, well duirng the PM Rush at least. That's just my guess as to why they are waiting until after SAS opens to review the line... these days all the Brooklyn Bound put ins gotta come from the first stop in Queens.

[Brooklyn]

And this is why they need to do the Sandy repairs on the Nassau portion of the Montauge tunnel:

 

Then as I would do it, I would make the a full-time line running from 95th Street:

To Broadway Junction weekdays (5:30 AM-11:00 PM)

To Metropolitan Avenue all other times (late nights and weekends).

 

That eliminates the shuttle late nights and the shuttle late nights and weekends and also supplements the in Bay Ridge.

 

While it does (in this case) eliminate skip-stop on the , that could be worked on separately.

 

It would at least solve the issue in Brooklyn having a second line.

Agreed about the repairs, and I generally feel Nassau is underutilized...

 

I would do something scaled back though--maybe an old "banker's special"  from Chambers st to 95th st...truth is not many people are taking the R from Brooklyn to Whitehall, Rector, Cortlandt or City Hall--They can make their transfers at Atlantic Av or Metrotech if they really need to get there. And that's what they did anyway during the Sandy Construction. 

 

The line is too long and too local and probably should be split up--permanently.

[itmaybeokay]

LMAO.... You do have the express bus but you choose to put up with the crappy .  When I considered moving to Bay Ridge years ago, I immediately thought about the and how FAR away I would move from it.  The place I considered was along Shore Rd near 92nd, right near the X27 and X37.  In any event, I don't see what in the hell SAS has to do with the service.  Ortiz is just looking for a lame excuse to excuse shoddy service and they don't want to address the because ridership isn't booming. I suspect that trains are being pulled from service or aren't making service.  I simply don't see how the could be so delayed at all hours of the day and night.  It's very suspect.  Even when the has shuttle service the waits are insane.  20 minutes minimum between trains is just ridiculous.

 

Express bus costs double what the subway does and doesn't run nearly as frequently - not everyone can afford that cost in terms of time or money. 

 

What SAS has to do with R service is that we'll see an additional broadway line introduced to account for the displaced Q. The current speculation is that the W will be added as a Whitehall-Ditmars local service with the Q going onto the express tracks. Broadway will have additional capacity, and lower manhattan will have reduced headways. So, while I agree the R needs some kind of changes, and deserves a full line review - I also agree that the review is more relevant once SAS opens. 

 

With regard to the 20 minute wait between shuttle trains - during this time period (late nights) just about every service in the system operates on 20 minute headways. 

[R10 2952]

Aside from repairing the Nassau leads to Montague, they need to do make adjustments so that the R32s/42s can run through there again to Coney Island.  When you have 250+ cars that can't make it to the system's main overhaul facility because of a trivial clearance issue, that's a problem.

[Around the Horn]

LMAO.... You do have the express bus but you choose to put up with the crappy .  When I considered moving to Bay Ridge years ago, I immediately thought about the and how FAR away I would move from it.  The place I considered was along Shore Rd near 92nd, right near the X27 and X37.  In any event, I don't see what in the hell SAS has to do with the service.  Ortiz is just looking for a lame excuse to excuse shoddy service and they don't want to address the because ridership isn't booming. I suspect that trains are being pulled from service or aren't making service.  I simply don't see how the could be so delayed at all hours of the day and night.  It's very suspect.  Even when the has shuttle service the waits are insane.  20 minutes minimum between trains is just ridiculous.

LMAO.   Too expensive, empty outside of rush hour and a waste of money on the MTA's part that could be spent somewhere else and a waste of operators who could be driving buses where they are needed. But no we need express buses on weekends. <_<They're friggin EMPTY.

 

I aint spending $13 round trip...

 

And Ortiz is a Transit shill, so none of the bullshit he spews surprises me...

truth is not many people are taking the R from Brooklyn to Whitehall, Rector, Cortlandt or City Hall--

Most ridership (on weekends at least) is south to Lower Manhattan or from Lower Manhattan north.  Downtown trains are SRO by Prince Street and empty out by Whitehall. And whenever I pass through Cortlandt, the Uptown and Queens platform is mobbed.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LMAO.   Too expensive, empty outside of rush hour and a waste of money on the MTA's part that could be spent somewhere else and a waste of operators who could be driving buses where they are needed. But no we need express buses on weekends. <_<They're friggin EMPTY.

 

I aint spending $13 round trip...

 

And Ortiz is a Transit shill, so none of the bullshit he spews surprises me...

 

Most ridership (on weekends at least) is south to Lower Manhattan or from Lower Manhattan north.  Downtown trains are SRO by Prince Street and empty out by Whitehall. And whenever I pass through Cortlandt, the Uptown and Queens platform is mobbed.

Empty outside of rush hour where?  The only "light" trips are the later ones going to Manhattan on Sundays (i.e. the 19:00 or 20:00), but the others carry well, in fact close enough to be SRO in some cases.  You don't use them so you clearly must be going by what you see when the buses pass by. I DO use them to get to and from Bay Ridge.  Most of the usage outside of the rush is above 79th street and Shore Rd, particularly the last few stops before it turns off of Shore Rd and the last few stops before it hits the Gowanus.  I get the bus anywhere along Shore Rd, sometimes at 99th street, and sometimes further up along Shore Rd, so I see where all of the usage comes from.

 

Express bus costs double what the subway does and doesn't run nearly as frequently - not everyone can afford that cost in terms of time or money. 

 

What SAS has to do with R service is that we'll see an additional broadway line introduced to account for the displaced Q. The current speculation is that the W will be added as a Whitehall-Ditmars local service with the Q going onto the express tracks. Broadway will have additional capacity, and lower manhattan will have reduced headways. So, while I agree the R needs some kind of changes, and deserves a full line review - I also agree that the review is more relevant once SAS opens. 

 

With regard to the 20 minute wait between shuttle trains - during this time period (late nights) just about every service in the system operates on 20 minute headways. 

There's something called a pass at $57.25 a week.  More than reasonable.  A lot of Bay Ridge is upper middle class, so if he is barely scrapping by in Bay Ridge, he probably should've moved to a cheaper neighborhood.    Considering how poorly the train runs (forget about the headway,s but when the trains actually show up), the X27 and X37 are FAR more frequent during the rush and faster, be it on paper or in reality.  I know because I've used both for years as a former South Brooklyn resident.  

[LTA1992]

Empty outside of rush hour where?  The only "light" trips are the later ones going to Manhattan on Sundays (i.e. the 19:00 or 20:00), but the others carry well, in fact close enough to be SRO in some cases.  You don't use them so you clearly must be going by what you see when the buses pass by. I DO use them to get to and from Bay Ridge.  Most of the usage outside of the rush is above 79th street and Shore Rd, particularly the last few stops before it turns off of Shore Rd and the last few stops before it hits the Gowanus.  I get the bus anywhere along Shore Rd, sometimes at 99th street, and sometimes further up along Shore Rd, so I see where all of the usage comes from.

 

There's something called a pass at $57.25 a week.  More than reasonable.  A lot of Bay Ridge is upper middle class, so if he is barely scrapping by in Bay Ridge, he probably should've moved to a cheaper neighborhood.    Considering how poorly the train runs (forget about the headway,s but when the trains actually show up), the X27 and X37 are FAR more frequent during the rush and faster, be it on paper or in reality.  I know because I've used both for years as a former South Brooklyn resident.  

It's still beaten by the 31 dollar 7-day pass. So that reasoning is invalid. Also, you cannot judge a persons situation based on where they live. Bring that nose of yours down a few feet please?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's still beaten by the 31 dollar 7-day pass. So that reasoning is invalid. Also, you cannot judge a persons situation based on where they live. Bring that nose of yours down a few feet please?

I know it is, but he would access to all of the forms of transportation in his neighborhood.  Hey listen I purchase a Metro-North pass AND an express bus pass, so I spend far more in transportation than anyone else does.  $57.25 a week is peanuts in comparison.  When the express buses are messed up, I simply get Metro-North.  Anyone who thinks the subway system will improve is sadly mistaken.  Even the (MTA)'s own figures show that.

[Around the Horn]

Empty outside of rush hour where?  The only "light" trips are the later ones going to Manhattan on Sundays (i.e. the 19:00 or 20:00), but the others carry well, in fact close enough to be SRO in some cases.  You don't use them so you clearly must be going by what you see when the buses pass by. I DO use them to get to and from Bay Ridge.  Most of the usage outside of the rush is above 79th street and Shore Rd, particularly the last few stops before it turns off of Shore Rd and the last few stops before it hits the Gowanus.  I get the bus anywhere along Shore Rd, sometimes at 99th street, and sometimes further up along Shore Rd, so I see where all of the usage comes from.

The entire route on weekends...except maybe to Manhattan in the AM and to Brooklyn in the PM. Even then its only 10 to 15 people.

 

I see them everyday passing in front of my house and every day walking to and from school. You're lucky if that bus has even 5 people on it weekends and to Manhattan after 9AM and to Brooklyn before 4PM.The money it costs to run that empty bus could be better spent elsewhere like improving Staten Island's weekend express service, which is actually used. The driver could be driving another bus on the B1 or the B6, routes that actually see usage on weekends.

 

All the weekend X27 reactivation was, is a political "pay out" to Golden. That's it. Malliotakis only supported it because it gives the illusion that she's been doing something in Albany which helps in election season.

 

Hell Yeah, they are SRO during rush hours without a doubt. But other than that they carry air.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The entire route on weekends...except maybe to Manhattan in the AM and to Brooklyn in the PM. Even then its only 10 to 15 people.

 

I see them everyday passing in front of my house and every day walking to and from school. You're lucky if that bus has even 5 people on it weekends and to Manhattan after 9AM and to Brooklyn before 4PM.The money it costs to run that empty bus could be better spent elsewhere like improving Staten Island's weekend express service, which is actually used. The driver could be driving another bus on the B1 or the B6, routes that actually see usage on weekends.

 

All the weekend X27 reactivation was, is a political "pay out" to Golden. That's it. Malliotakis only supported it because it gives the illusion that she's been doing something in Albany which helps in election season.

 

Hell Yeah, they are SRO during rush hours without a doubt. But other than that they carry air.

That is simply not true.  What you see in front of your house and what I see as a rider on the X27 are two different things.  You people make me laugh with that nonsense about what you see when it passes your house, which is only one stop.   It can't be carrying air based on the weekend stats from the .  It does about half of what the X17 does on weekends.  The X17 carried 2,053 riders on weekends and serves a significant portion of Staten Island, and the X27 carried 977 riders on weekends, and only serves Bay Ridge and Fort Hamilton, which is also considered part of Bay Ridge.  That is pretty respectable.

 

Source: http://web.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/ridership_bus_weekend.htm

 

For the record, I was one of the people that supported bringing the X27 back on weekends, since I use it and certainly wrote to Senator Golden to fight for it.  It is definitely helpful and much safer and faster than the could ever be.

[Around the Horn]

You're missing the point. The bus has only 5 people on it when it gets to my stop which is the 3rd to last stop before the expressway (I think).

 

I have taken it on occasion on weekends as a novelty. I have never been on an X27 with more than ten people (this was the 5:35 from Broadway and Waverly Pl IIRC)

[NewFlyer 230]

There has been times where three (M)'s came before the came it is very annoying and then when the came its crush loaded and then you will have a empty one afterwards. I'm happy G.O's happen often on the weekends sending the and local because getting from 71st Ave to Woodhaven Blvd sometimes is a good wait. Sometimes I considered taking the Q60 but never did so.

[Tokkemon]

There's something called a pass at $57.25 a week.  More than reasonable.  A lot of Bay Ridge is upper middle class, so if he is barely scrapping by in Bay Ridge, he probably should've moved to a cheaper neighborhood.    Considering how poorly the train runs (forget about the headway,s but when the trains actually show up), the X27 and X37 are FAR more frequent during the rush and faster, be it on paper or in reality.  I know because I've used both for years as a former South Brooklyn resident.  

 

No, I don't live west of Third Avenue, the dividing line between the rich Bay Ridge and the less-than-rich Bay Ridge. Those on the west side use the Express Buses and/or walk to the train or drive. Those on the east side have no real options besides the or driving, and if you're relatively poor, driving is not feasible.

 

Bay Ridge is a relatively large neighborhood, so stop assuming your own experience applies for the whole. $57 a week is double the cost of the subway, not worth it, even if it's slightly faster. 

[Around the Horn]

No, I don't live west of Third Avenue, the dividing line between the rich Bay Ridge and the less-than-rich Bay Ridge. Those on the west side use the Express Buses and/or walk to the train or drive. Those on the east side have no real options besides the or driving, and if you're relatively poor, driving is not feasible.

 

Bay Ridge is a relatively large neighborhood, so stop assuming your own experience applies for the whole. $57 a week is double the cost of the subway, not worth it, even if it's slightly faster. 

The whole Third Avenue being a dividing line thing is a myth...

 

(10 years ago it might have been true.I fully expect within 25 years the entire neighborhood will be majority Arab and Southeast Asian with the Shore Road mansion owners moving out of Brooklyn)

 

There are plenty of people living on and west of Third Avenue who are in the same economic position (can't afford the express bus). This especially common in the apartment buildings north of Bay Ridge Pkwy. Its getting to the point that Shore Road will be the only ridership base for the express bus and most people east of Shore Road pile on the local buses. As it is express bus service only serves a niche ridership base that views local bus and train riders as inferior and refuses to be seen "so low". VG8's experience is correct but only for the "1%" if you will.