Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[ActiveCity]

1 hour ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Any one else here?

 

 

Yes.

[Nitro]

I would propose a Z Train extension to JFK Airport via Conduit Blvd & the Belt Parkway/Nassau Expressway if feasible if not the line would end at Cross Bay Blvd Q52 & Q53,

Aqueduct North Conduit Avenue or the Lefferts Blvd AirTrain Station. The line would be entirely elevated.

[TMC]

On 8/23/2023 at 9:32 AM, Nitro said:

I would propose a Z Train extension to JFK Airport via Conduit Blvd & the Belt Parkway/Nassau Expressway if feasible if not the line would end at Cross Bay Blvd Q52 & Q53,

Aqueduct North Conduit Avenue or the Lefferts Blvd AirTrain Station. The line would be entirely elevated.

The  should be eliminated, and no subway line should touch JFK Airport. The AirTrain should be made free, that’s it. 

[Nitro]

5 hours ago, TMC said:

The  should be eliminated, and no subway line should touch JFK Airport. The AirTrain should be made free, that’s it. 

Conduit Blvd's ROW can fit two tracks. What's wrong with extending subway service to the area

[Nitro]

5 hours ago, TMC said:

The  should be eliminated, and no subway line should touch JFK Airport. The AirTrain should be made free, that’s it. 

The  is not going to be eliminated due to NIMBYs in Richmond Hill & Woodhaven complaining about the lack of "fair service" Unless there is an extreme budget cut.

The AirTrain & is owned by the airport itself and should not be made free. That's socialism.

Most of public transportation isn't free. Maybe the subway should be free, that would just encourage turnstile jumpers to do jump the turnstiles even more despite the multiple busts of these guys that I've seen on the subway by the NYPD. The Staten Island Railway loses $500 Million dollars annually because of this shit. Your fares go to the salary of the bus operator and/or train crews & to fixing the station. Not your fantasy ideas or your leisure.

[Amiri the subway guy]

1 minute ago, Nitro said:

The  is not going to be eliminated due to NIMBYs in Richmond Hill & Woodhaven complaining about the lack of "fair service" Unless there is an extreme budget cut.

The AirTrain & is owned by the airport itself and should not be made free. That's socialism.

Most of public transportation isn't free. Maybe the subway should be free, that would just encourage turnstile jumpers to do jump the turnstiles even more despite the multiple busts of these guys that I've seen on the subway by the NYPD. The Staten Island Railway loses $500 Million dollars annually because of this shit. Your fares go to the salary of the bus operator and/or train crews & to fixing the station. Not your fantasy ideas or your leisure.

That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to them him

[Nitro]

1 minute ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to them him

Well we both know nothing is free. At the end of the day we all have to pay for our subway/bus fares if we like it or not.

The  extension via Conduit Blvd is the more realistic idea rather than the fantasy proposed Second Avenue Subway will ever be which will only serves Manhattan itself.

Brooklyn, Queens & The Bronx have always outnumbered Manhattan 3 to 1. Tunnel Boring Machines are expensive as hell and it also takes more time to construct a subway line underground which can be very time consuming. The realistic option for the extension via Conduit Blvd is to use a modernized elevated structure with no emissions. The last borough that should be bitching about service is Manhattan since they get fair service compared to the rest of the boroughs.

[LGA Link N Train]

8 hours ago, Nitro said:

The  extension via Conduit Blvd is the more realistic idea rather than the fantasy proposed Second Avenue Subway will ever be which will only serves Manhattan itself.

Conduit has no catchment area outside of Low Rise Residential Buildings. In addition to that, I would advise against adding a branch on the  East of Crescent Street.

 

Also that statement of a Conduit Extension being more realistic than SAS when Phase 2 is literally about to start the construction phase is quite laughable.

[Nitro]

3 minutes ago, LGA Link N Train said:

Conduit has no catchment area outside of Low Rise Residential Buildings. In addition to that, I would advise against adding a branch on the  East of Crescent Street.

 

Also that statement of a Conduit Extension being more realistic than SAS when Phase 2 is literally about to start the construction phase is quite laughable.

What is your reason, The ROW is already exists all you have to do is add an elevated structure. Nobody wants to take the bus anyways.

[LGA Link N Train]

9 minutes ago, Nitro said:

What is your reason, The ROW is already exists all you have to do is add an elevated structure. Nobody wants to take the bus anyways.

There’s No Rail ROW on Conduit and like I said in my previous post, the Catchment area along Conduit just low rise Residential Buildings and therefore, isn’t strong enough to support a Sufficient Ridership Base. Also Splitting the  and  would Hurt Riders along Jamaica Avenue as that’d basically be a 50% Service Cut. Assuming we don’t address any of the other Bottlenecks that plague the Jamaica Line first. 

[Nitro]

1 minute ago, LGA Link N Train said:

There’s No Rail ROW on Conduit and like I said in my previous post, the Catchment area along Conduit just low rise Residential Buildings and therefore, isn’t strong enough to support a Sufficient Ridership Base. Also Splitting the  and  would Hurt Riders along Jamaica Avenue as that’d basically be a 50% Service Cut. Assuming we don’t address any of the other Bottlenecks that plague the Jamaica Line first. 

How is it a 50% service cut if the is detached from the  and not treated like a skip stop variant.

[LGA Link N Train]

6 minutes ago, Nitro said:

How is it a 50% service cut if the is detached from the  and not treated like a skip stop variant.

Because thats a (minimum) 6 out of 12 TPH you’re diverting away from Jamaica

Edited August 25, 2023 by LGA Link N Train

[TMC]

9 hours ago, Nitro said:

The  is not going to be eliminated due to NIMBYs in Richmond Hill & Woodhaven complaining about the lack of "fair service" Unless there is an extreme budget cut.

You will see what is possible under TMC ownership of the MTA. 

[TMC]

9 hours ago, Nitro said:

The AirTrain & is owned by the airport itself and should not be made free. That's socialism

I didn’t know it was possible to spread bullshit like this.

I guess the majority of APMs around the globe are evil enclaves of socialism…

[TDL]

The    and  should swap in Brooklyn. Let the  run Brighton Express and the   run 4th Ave Local. This way the   can run to Astoria and still have yard access. The   can use Concourse Yard, sending the   to CIY. Yes, you'd have to run the  on weekends, but they really need to anyway to alleviate the  .

[TDL]

6 minutes ago, TDL said:

The    and  should swap in Brooklyn. Let the  run Brighton Express and the   run 4th Ave Local. This way the   can run to Astoria and still have yard access. The   can use Concourse Yard, sending the   to CIY. Yes, you'd have to run the  on weekends, but they really need to anyway to alleviate the  .

Adding onto this, to eliminate the 34th Street merge on Broadway, the   can run via. 63rd Street to QBL local. 

[Vulturious]

7 hours ago, TDL said:

7 hours ago, TDL said:

The    and  should swap in Brooklyn. Let the  run Brighton Express and the   run 4th Ave Local. This way the   can run to Astoria and still have yard access. The   can use Concourse Yard, sending the   to CIY. Yes, you'd have to run the  on weekends, but they really need to anyway to alleviate the  .

Adding onto this, to eliminate the 34th Street merge on Broadway, the   can run via. 63rd Street to QBL local. 

This is basically bringing back the  along 4 Av, but instead of to Coney via West End which is essentially what the  is, it's to Bay Ridge. There are drawbacks to this plan being that as you mentioned the  running on weekends. But there's also a slight teensy-tiny little detail you completely missed, the  is also running around 24/7 as well since it's back on Astoria.

Actually I lied, there are other services affected outside of this, that being what's happening to the connection between 6 Av and 63 St? What would serve 57 St? Would the  continue to uptown? How would the rest of late night and weekend service work? 

[TDL]

12 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

This is basically bringing back the  along 4 Av, but instead of to Coney via West End which is essentially what the  is, it's to Bay Ridge. There are drawbacks to this plan being that as you mentioned the  running on weekends. But there's also a slight teensy-tiny little detail you completely missed, the  is also running around 24/7 as well since it's back on Astoria.

Actually I lied, there are other services affected outside of this, that being what's happening to the connection between 6 Av and 63 St? What would serve 57 St? Would the  continue to uptown? How would the rest of late night and weekend service work? 

The  service is maintained to 63rd St and serves 57th St.  service remains unchanged.

 

Late Night Service would be as follows

 Shuttle between 95th Street and Whitehall Street as the  currently does. 
 shuttle between Astoria and 34th St-Herald Square.

Weekend service would simply mirror the weekday service.

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, TDL said:

The  service is maintained to 63rd St and serves 57th St.  service remains unchanged.

 

Late Night Service would be as follows

 Shuttle between 95th Street and Whitehall Street as the  currently does. 
 shuttle between Astoria and 34th St-Herald Square.

Weekend service would simply mirror the weekday service.

Your forgetting the  now that I think about it, you cannot cut it back in Brooklyn either since that was the whole reason the  and  swap happened in the first place, even if this is Sea Beach.

I also fail to see how running the  via 63 St would be better than continuing the  via 60 St even with the whole 34 St merge being an issue. Because now you have another annoying merge and QBL still not running optimally with the  now merging with the  along 63 St to later with the  along QBL. 

[transitkidzae]

What about…

 

discontinuing the and starting full time service on the   Kings Hwy-179 (Culver LCL via crosstown/ EXP via QB) thus allowing the  to have full time LCL & EXP Culver service, plus providing an easy way for commuters of the culver line to keep their access to manhattan and commuters on the crosstown to have full time service going into queens and direct access w/o needing to transfer to all of the QB line. 
 

 

Also, full time extension of the  to Lefferts, eliminate the Rockaway  for full time  service to Far Rock & Rock Park.

 

[Wallyhorse]

1 hour ago, transitkidzae said:

What about…

discontinuing the and starting full time service on the   Kings Hwy-179 (Culver LCL via crosstown/ EXP via QB) thus allowing the  to have full time LCL & EXP Culver service, plus providing an easy way for commuters of the culver line to keep their access to manhattan and commuters on the crosstown to have full time service going into queens and direct access w/o needing to transfer to all of the QB line. 

Also, full time extension of the  to Lefferts, eliminate the Rockaway  for full time  service to Far Rock & Rock Park.

That you can't even think of doing with the  for some time since as noted, the connection between 21st on the   and Queens Plaza on the is NOT CBTC nor is I believe the rest of the line itself.  This is one reason why in the current G.O., the running via QBL and extended to 71-Continental isn't happening.    Also, the does get ridership.  

I have myself liked the idea of the to Lefferts but it's been well noted residents and elected officials would make it tough politically for the to run to Lefferts since it is local and people want their one-seat express ride.  This to me only can happen if eventually the is extended into Brooklyn via a new connection between the south end of Phase 4 of the SAS and a new tunnel that likely runs under Schermerhorn Street and the Transit Museum with the first Brooklyn stop at Hoyt-Schermerhorn on the as-present unused track/platform at Hoyt.  I would actually be looking to build that part now and connect it to the SAS if and when the gets that far (with in that scenario, the running to Euclid but extended late nights to Lefferts to replace the , which would be express with the  on Fulton at other times).  

 

10 hours ago, TDL said:

The    and  should swap in Brooklyn. Let the  run Brighton Express and the   run 4th Ave Local. This way the   can run to Astoria and still have yard access. The   can use Concourse Yard, sending the   to CIY. Yes, you'd have to run the  on weekends, but they really need to anyway to alleviate the  .

You almost have to have a Broadway or Nassau service run as the 4th Avenue Local because of the way the tracks are set up.  Given all the problems the has had in Brooklyn to the point a few years ago that elected officials wanted the  split in Brooklyn, this was why I came up effectively splitting the by having the effectively become the current in Manhattan and Queens, running from Whitehall to 71st-Continental (with trains that are too many during peak hours than Whitehall can turn terminating and beginning on the tunnel level of Canal Street) while the  turns brown and runs via Nassau Street in Manhattan via a much shorter route to a rebuilt Canal Street on the  with the abandoned Northbound side reopened at Canal and Bowery and the  and  northbound going on a re-activated track while this  uses what currently is the northbound track at Canal to turn (and during peak hours, a reactivated "northbound express" track terminates overflow  trains using the area north of Canal to reverse (with this  based out of East New York and having in-service yard runs ending and beginning at Broadway Junction on the  while late nights and weekends, this  would be extended to Metropolitan Avenue to absorb the shuttles and also be extended if the gets knocked out of using 6th Avenue).  It would be difficult to have a 6th Avenue train run to 95th-Bay Ridge because of the way the tracks are set up (and I have suggested that myself in the past).

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, transitkidzae said:

What about…

 

discontinuing the and starting full time service on the   Kings Hwy-179 (Culver LCL via crosstown/ EXP via QB) thus allowing the  to have full time LCL & EXP Culver service, plus providing an easy way for commuters of the culver line to keep their access to manhattan and commuters on the crosstown to have full time service going into queens and direct access w/o needing to transfer to all of the QB line. 
 

 

Also, full time extension of the  to Lefferts, eliminate the Rockaway  for full time  service to Far Rock & Rock Park.

 

Allow me to educate you, others will come in and probably tell you the same exact thing.

1.) The  as the full time local along Crosstown would still literally be the  and doesn't make a difference. Running the  via Crosstown to QBL Express (f**k it I'm calling it the ) would make it worse because of the already mergings going on around that area with the  being cut off by the  and later on the  because it has to run local, then the  because it's already express, and then the actual  later on. This does not make it any easier whatsoever.

2.) Full time  to Lefferts doesn't help at all since there's already a merge happening between the  and  just so they can split again after a few stops. This has been proposed thousands of times, it's not original.

[Wallyhorse]

6 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

That you can't even think of doing with the  for some time since as noted, the connection between 21st on the   and Queens Plaza on the is NOT CBTC nor is I believe the rest of the line itself.  This is one reason why in the current G.O., the running via QBL and extended to 71-Continental isn't happening.    Also, the does get ridership.  

I have myself liked the idea of the to Lefferts but it's been well noted residents and elected officials would make it tough politically for the to run to Lefferts since it is local and people want their one-seat express ride.  This to me only can happen if eventually the is extended into Brooklyn via a new connection between the south end of Phase 4 of the SAS and a new tunnel that likely runs under Schermerhorn Street and the Transit Museum with the first Brooklyn stop at Hoyt-Schermerhorn on the as-present unused track/platform at Hoyt.  I would actually be looking to build that part now and connect it to the SAS if and when the gets that far (with in that scenario, the running to Euclid but extended late nights to Lefferts to replace the , which would be express with the  on Fulton at other times).  

 

You almost have to have a Broadway or Nassau service run as the 4th Avenue Local because of the way the tracks are set up.  Given all the problems the has had in Brooklyn to the point a few years ago that elected officials wanted the  split in Brooklyn, this was why I came up effectively splitting the by having the effectively become the current in Manhattan and Queens, running from Whitehall to 71st-Continental (with trains that are too many during peak hours than Whitehall can turn terminating and beginning on the tunnel level of Canal Street) while the  turns brown and runs via Nassau Street in Manhattan via a much shorter route to a rebuilt Canal Street on the  with the abandoned Northbound side reopened at Canal and Bowery and the  and  northbound going on a re-activated track while this  uses what currently is the northbound track at Canal to turn (and during peak hours, a reactivated "northbound express" track terminates overflow  trains using the area north of Canal to reverse (with this  based out of East New York and having in-service yard runs ending and beginning at Broadway Junction on the  while late nights and weekends, this  would be extended to Metropolitan Avenue to absorb the shuttles and also be extended if the gets knocked out of using 6th Avenue).  It would be difficult to have a 6th Avenue train run to 95th-Bay Ridge because of the way the tracks are set up (and I have suggested that myself in the past).

Adding to what I wrote above, I would also have to supplement the a new "Yellow " that would run from 9th Avenue or Bay Parkway on the to Astoria with the , running via the tunnel and covering those who need lower Manhattan and certain local stops in Manhattan north of Canal from Brooklyn.   

[TMC]

10 hours ago, transitkidzae said:

Also, full time extension of the  to Lefferts, eliminate the Rockaway  for full time  service to Far Rock & Rock Park

This is bad, it’ll just introduce more unreliability by adding an extra merge.

[Amiri the subway guy]

Could you guy think of something without deinterlining? None of these plans make sense