TDL Posted March 13 Share #12351 Posted March 13 11 hours ago, Wallyhorse said: Accidentally hit send before I finished, resuming: would run eventually from 125/Lenox or further west to Euclid Avenue, extended overnights to Lefferts Boulevard. This would run via a new Remsen Street tunnel from likely Hanover Square, which would in Brooklyn have a stop around Court Street that would include transfers to the and current ( late nights) and as I would eventually have it my version of the and "Yellow " at Court. I would be looking to build this to at least Chatham Square even ahead of Phase 3 to it at least is running to lower Manhattan. It would then come in on the unused local track at Hoyt-Schermerhorn and run as the Fulton Local. In Manhattan, Seaport if possible also a transfer point between the and all trains in the Fulton complex, and would both run express on Fulton at all times ( except late nights) to Lefferts (as noted replaced by the late nights) while the is on a 4/3 split between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park with either the only operating late nights from Broad Channel-Rockaway Park OR the running as a 6 TPH line late nights, equally split between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park so one of the two branches runs every 20 minutes. In the suggestion I proposed, Montague would only have two services, and . No need for anything else. can end in Hanover Sq or be extended to South Ferry for transit connections. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDL Posted March 13 Share #12352 Posted March 13 15 hours ago, Theli11 said: Like an East River loop route? Not sure if anyone is incentivized to take the when you can just take... almost any East River route for faster service. This route only benefits you if you need to go from East Harlem to Clinton Hill/Bed-Stuy. There's better routes. South Ferry doesn't need more trains considering the fact that 5 lines are already in the area, I think Brooklyn is the best route for the SAS If there's money for a new tunnel, that is 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reptile Posted March 15 Share #12353 Posted March 15 Would it be a good idea to connect the 60th St tunnel to the SAS and reroute service down 2nd Av? This would give an opportunity for SAS to have two trains going into Queens if at some point it is upgraded to have 4 tracks. (the other would go via the 63rd st tunnel) It would also allow connections to the and maybe make the 34th street junction on the more efficient. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted March 15 Share #12354 Posted March 15 17 hours ago, Reptile said: Would it be a good idea to connect the 60th St tunnel to the SAS and reroute service down 2nd Av? This would give an opportunity for SAS to have two trains going into Queens if at some point it is upgraded to have 4 tracks. (the other would go via the 63rd st tunnel) It would also allow connections to the and maybe make the 34th street junction on the more efficient. Probably not a good idea to split up the 60th St tunnel like this since it's already limited as is with how many trains and 2 other lines running through there. While it frees up how many trains are going through Broadway, that doesn't really give it any service boost either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reptile Posted March 15 Share #12355 Posted March 15 9 minutes ago, Vulturious said: Probably not a good idea to split up the 60th St tunnel like this since it's already limited as is with how many trains and 2 other lines running through there. While it frees up how many trains are going through Broadway, that doesn't really give it any service boost either. Ok, I think a better idea would be to create an infill station on the 63rd St line at Crescent or 27th Street and 41st Ave that would have a transfer to the since they're only a block away. Would also possibly decrease some transfer congestion, for example a rider going from Astoria to West 4th wouldn't transfer at Herald Square anymore. But then again the 60th and 63rd St lines run very close so maybe that's not worth the cost. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted March 15 Share #12356 Posted March 15 12 minutes ago, Reptile said: Ok, I think a better idea would be to create an infill station on the 63rd St line at Crescent or 27th Street and 41st Ave that would have a transfer to the since they're only a block away. Would also possibly decrease some transfer congestion, for example a rider going from Astoria to West 4th wouldn't transfer at Herald Square anymore. But then again the 60th and 63rd St lines run very close so maybe that's not worth the cost. Don't think it would've been worth the cost either way because of how close said infill station would be to 21 St-Queensbridge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reptile Posted March 16 Share #12357 Posted March 16 My finalized (no it's not) plan for the Second Avenue Line from 125 St-Bway to Euclid Av. This will run via the tunnel after Hanover Sq that I posted about ( V ) from Bayside/Bell Blvd to Coney Island. This will run via the 63rd St tunnel to a new Northern Blvd line with the and an extended Franklin Ave shuttle called the ( K ). It will replace service in Brooklyn, which will operate to Williamsburg and Metropolitan Av. ( Y ) from Fordham University to Brighton Beach. This will run under 3rd Av in the Bronx with the and will be the only Express line on the SAS. Its main aim is to reduce crowding on the . It will replace service in Brooklyn, which will operate to Williamsburg and Jamaica (rush hours using a new third track to go straight from Bway Junction to Woodhaven and then to Jamaica) Express stations will be 125 St, 72 St, 42 St, 14 St, Houston St, Grand St. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted March 17 Share #12358 Posted March 17 On 3/16/2024 at 10:24 AM, Reptile said: My finalized (no it's not) plan for the Second Avenue Line from 125 St-Bway to Euclid Av. This will run via the tunnel after Hanover Sq that I posted about ( V ) from Bayside/Bell Blvd to Coney Island. This will run via the 63rd St tunnel to a new Northern Blvd line with the and an extended Franklin Ave shuttle called the ( K ). It will replace service in Brooklyn, which will operate to Williamsburg and Metropolitan Av. ( Y ) from Fordham University to Brighton Beach. This will run under 3rd Av in the Bronx with the and will be the only Express line on the SAS. Its main aim is to reduce crowding on the . It will replace service in Brooklyn, which will operate to Williamsburg and Jamaica (rush hours using a new third track to go straight from Bway Junction to Woodhaven and then to Jamaica) Express stations will be 125 St, 72 St, 42 St, 14 St, Houston St, Grand St. The is exactly as I would do it, except as noted it would be extended late nights to Lefferts to eliminate the late-night shuttle between there and Euclid (the would be the full-time express to Lefferts otherwise). I would have a , except this one would be a "black ( V )" that I have noted many times would run from Metropolitan Avenue to Coney Island with the current that also would be extended there as a second local on Brighton while the would become the express to Brighton (extended late nights and weekends to Coney Island). This would be done via after Myrtle-Broadway on the current station, this ( V ) would be black run via a short stretch of a rebuilt portion of the old Myrtle El with Tompkins Avenue and a transfer point to the most likely at Bedford-Nostrand before connecting to and absorbing the current Franklin Avenue Shuttle line with the stations rebuilt to two tracks and 600' stations (including Park Place on the current Franklin becoming two levels of single track if necessary) The you proposed as I would do it would run as you suggested with the (Q), but along the full route of the old 3rd Avenue El (either elevated or as subway) to Gun Hill Road (if elevated, either coming in on a rebuilt lower level or a new upper level of that station) with the stations from the old line considerably consolidated from the past. This as you suggest could serve as an express line. Your version of the I would in this instance I'll use the designation for could be the Queens branch of the SAS that would use the same lower level you would have your express tracks on, but would turn off at 79th Street to go to a new stop at York-1st Avenues on 79th and from there a new tunnel before continuing on a new route into Queens that would have it potentially wind up using the never-used upper level of Roosevelt Avenue (or a new lower level) and then run with the as you suggested. I would also add extending the current into the Bronx by adding a new station and potential yard at 21st Avenue, then continuing across the East River to the Bronx to Food Service Drive that would be the lone elevated stop on this line in The Bronx before going underground and include stations around East 180th on the and Westchester/Elder Avenue on the before ending at Jacobi Medical Center. This would give people in the Bronx looking for Queens a way to do it without going into Manhattan first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted March 20 Share #12359 Posted March 20 You know what? Forget 2 Av … 2 Av is taking forever and it’s very flawed… Why not focus on QueensLink? The infrastructure is already there, just needs reactivation. Thus I would do this: Far Rockaway - Brighton Beach: RBB line - QBL Local - 63rd - 6 Av/Brighton Express Rockaway Pk - 95 St: RBB line - QBL Local - 60th - Bway/4 Av Express stopping at 45 and 53 Sts. Rockaway Blvd would be rebuilt to connect at Lefferts Platform, at lower level RBB platform. Aside from this I have other ideas I won’t disclose because let’s stay on topic regarding which lines should go to Lefferts and Rockaways and if 2 Av is really necessary… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDL Posted March 20 Share #12360 Posted March 20 10 hours ago, MTA Researcher said: You know what? Forget 2 Av … 2 Av is taking forever and it’s very flawed… Why not focus on QueensLink? The infrastructure is already there, just needs reactivation. Thus I would do this: Far Rockaway - Brighton Beach: RBB line - QBL Local - 63rd - 6 Av/Brighton Express Rockaway Pk - 95 St: RBB line - QBL Local - 60th - Bway/4 Av Express stopping at 45 and 53 Sts. Rockaway Blvd would be rebuilt to connect at Lefferts Platform, at lower level RBB platform. Aside from this I have other ideas I won’t disclose because let’s stay on topic regarding which lines should go to Lefferts and Rockaways and if 2 Av is really necessary… I'd do it this way. as is to Far Rockaway for the Brooklyn Connection -Metropolitan Ave-Rockaway Pk. -QBL Local to 71st Ave - Howard Beach/JFK- 161 Yankee Stadium, via. RBB, Junction Blvd-LGA, Rikers Island, 161st Street. This line would connect with the at Junction Blvd, LGA Airport, any new Rikers Island development once the jail closes, Hunts Point Ave , Intervale Ave , and Yankee Stadium . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reptile Posted March 24 Share #12361 Posted March 24 Would it be possible to expand the World Trade Center terminal to 3 tracks to allow more service to run? Or is there too much infrastructure in the way? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted March 24 Share #12362 Posted March 24 17 hours ago, Reptile said: Would it be possible to expand the World Trade Center terminal to 3 tracks to allow more service to run? Or is there too much infrastructure in the way? What should have been done there was after 9/11, used that time to connect that part of the 8th Avenue line with the Montague line at Cortlandt-WTC, allowing for the to potentially continue to even 95th Street-Bay Ridge that way as that would have been straight through (possibly with cutting the back to City Hall as was the original plan of the Broadway Local back in the day and doing the required work on the lower level of City Hall). You could have then possibly closed the platform at Chambers-WTC and instead had a tunnel leading to a transfer to the at Chambers). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reptile Posted March 25 Share #12363 Posted March 25 (edited) Ok, I've finished my new (mostly) deinterlining and expansion plan - let me know what you think 168th St to Far Rockaway Bedford Pk Blvd or 145 St to Lefferts Blvd Springfield Gardens (extended from Jamaica Center) to WTC 188 St/73 Av (extended from Forest Hills) to WTC Note that some trains will have to terminate at 2 Av on the because WTC can't handle all that capacity. This is fine IMO, most riders usually leave by West 4 or Canal, although it will cause interlining at West 4th. trains, if possible, will switch to the express tracks via a new junction right after the 50th St station before the QBL tracks join in. 207th St to Bay Ridge/95th St, running express to 59th then switching to local. Co-Op City (extended from Norwood) to Coney Island via Sea Beach Springfield Blvd (extended from 179th) to Coney Island via Culver Jamaica-179 St to Church Av - trains will run express on Culver since the can carry that service. Rush hours could possibly run to Kings Highway for even longer service. The will have to interline with the , though. Note that the and will interline at the 36th St Junction. I feel as though QBL riders will be very mad if this doesn't happen. However, the MTA could build a station on the 63rd St line to connect it to the Queens Plaza station or to the Queensboro Plaza station - this is the only way I could see an "all express via 53rd, all local via 63rd" routing working. LaGuardia (extended from Astoria) to Coney Island via West End - runs via Montague and 4th Av Local, also a Broadway local 125th St/Broadway (extended from 96th) to Coney Island Brighton Beach LaGuardia (extended from Astoria) to St. George. It would branch off the 4th Av Local tracks at 59th St and use a new tunnel to Staten Island. Co-Op City (extended via 3rd Av from 96th) to Euclid Av. This line would use a new tunnel from Hanover Sq to Borough Hall (with connections to the ) which would then dip south to connect with the outer tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn. To keep the Transit museum operating, it would run behind the walls of the Court St station. Bayside/Bell Blvd to Metropolitan Av/Middle Village. This line would run via a new Northern Blvd line to Broadway in Queens where it would turn and run to Manhattan, having transfers to the . It would run via a new 79th St tunnel with a station at 1st Av to serve Yorkville and then go down to a lower level at 72nd St where the would also run. So 72nd St would be a 6-track station, the top two for service and the bottom 4 for trains. The would run express on 2nd Av stopping at 125th, 72nd, 42nd, 14th, and Houston Sts while the would be local. After Houston St the would copy the 's route. The and a new green ( H ) route originating in Prospect Park on the Franklin line would run to the Northern Blvd line through a rebuilt Court Sq station that would run under 23rd St rather than Jackson Av and then turn to 21st St to connect with the and also to serve western Astoria. The would be extended to 72nd St/Broadway to better serve the West Side. The would be rebuilt to be a peak-express route stopping only at Jamaica Center, Sutphin Blvd, Woodhaven Blvd, Crescent St, Broadway Junction, Myrtle Av, and Marcy Av. This would easily make it competitive with the . Now for the IRT... 42nd St identical, though the would be extended to College Point and Whitestone. identical but extended to Avenue U/Nostrand Av Dyre Av to Avenue U/Nostrand Av, replaces service identical but extended to New Lots and maybe to the Gateway Center Woodlawn to Kings Plaza, runs via a Utica Av line. This will interline with the at Franklin Av, but it's not that bad. A new service would be created running from a rebuilt 135 St station to 148 St and maybe extended up to Yankee Stadium through a similar route as the 9th Av el. The Franklin would be cut. Edited March 25 by Reptile 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznit1987 Posted April 10 Share #12364 Posted April 10 Here's my list of transfers and station improvements that the MTA should consider building: 1) Connecting DeKalb Ave and Nevins St in Brooklyn with a fare zone passageway. Will reduce crowding at Atlantic-Barclays 2) Speaking of DeKalb, the current station should be reconstructed where the island platforms are extended to meet the 4th Ave express tracks, and then the current tracks would be on the outside pair, with the tracks being served by new side platforms dug out. So In effect, the station would consist of two pairs of side platforms for the and two island platforms serving the . This means in the future we can deinterline DeKalb and make it a easy transfer. 3) Woodhaven Blvd needs to be made an express stop. Just do it already. 4) A connection should be built between Hoyt-Schemerhorn and Nevins St as well 5) A transfer between Queens Plaza and QB Plaza 6) A transfer between Lex-63rd st and Lex-60th 7) A lower level built on the Lex Express at 51st so the can stop there. 8) Connect Columbus Circle and 57th St on the 9) Connect Prince St to the Bleecker St complex 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted April 14 Share #12365 Posted April 14 On 4/10/2024 at 12:54 PM, shiznit1987 said: Here's my list of transfers and station improvements that the MTA should consider building: 1) Connecting DeKalb Ave and Nevins St in Brooklyn with a fare zone passageway. Will reduce crowding at Atlantic-Barclays 2) Speaking of DeKalb, the current station should be reconstructed where the island platforms are extended to meet the 4th Ave express tracks, and then the current tracks would be on the outside pair, with the tracks being served by new side platforms dug out. So In effect, the station would consist of two pairs of side platforms for the and two island platforms serving the . This means in the future we can deinterline DeKalb and make it a easy transfer. 3) Woodhaven Blvd needs to be made an express stop. Just do it already. 4) A connection should be built between Hoyt-Schemerhorn and Nevins St as well 5) A transfer between Queens Plaza and QB Plaza 6) A transfer between Lex-63rd st and Lex-60th 7) A lower level built on the Lex Express at 51st so the can stop there. 8) Connect Columbus Circle and 57th St on the 9) Connect Prince St to the Bleecker St complex Going to address these: 1 and 4: If such connections can be done via a new underground passageway, then certainly. 2. Not sure how that would work. 3. That is definitely, especially if at some point the Rockaway Beach Branch is re-activated as subway. 5. Blatantly obvious. 6. You would need a long passageway on both 3rd and on Lexington Avenues for this to work. 7. This would help, especially once the SAS station also opens (here it would be possible since such a transfer would be through the Lexi/53rd station on the ). 8. Not sure this is feasible given the Broadway line station runs from 55th-57th and the station I believe is from 59th-61st. To me, it would be better if possible to extend the 63rd Street connector to the 8th Avenue Line if possible, allowing for an 8th Avenue service to access 63rd. 9. This is another no-brainer. You could do it from the north end of the side platforms at Prince on the ( late nights) to the stations around Houston). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznit1987 Posted Sunday at 09:37 PM Share #12366 Posted Sunday at 09:37 PM This is my idea of trying to improve Fulton St service: Tie in the outermost tracks at Hoyt-Schmerhorn to the tracks between Bergen St and Jay St. This will allow for 6th Ave trains to run down the Fulton St Local without tying up Trains. What this does is set up a service pattern that looks like this: 207-Inwood to Far Rockaway via CPW Express, 8th Ave Express, Fulton Exp (all times) 205-Norwood to Lefferts Blvd via CPW Express, 8th Ave Express, Fulton Exp (all times) As is (QB Express late nights) As is 168th St-Wash Hts to Coney Island via CPW Local, 6th Ave express, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Ave Exp, West End (all times) As is Reinstated: Forest Hills 71st to Euclid Ave, Brooklyn via QB Local, 53rd st, 6th Ave Local, Fulton Local (all times) Middle Village to Bay Ridge via 4th Ave Local, Nassau St, Broadway/Mrytle all times Cut back to Whitehall Why do this? 2 reasons: More service to Queens plus demerges both Futlon St and CPW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted Monday at 02:01 AM Share #12367 Posted Monday at 02:01 AM 4 hours ago, shiznit1987 said: This is my idea of trying to improve Fulton St service: Tie in the outermost tracks at Hoyt-Schmerhorn to the tracks between Bergen St and Jay St. This will allow for 6th Ave trains to run down the Fulton St Local without tying up Trains. What this does is set up a service pattern that looks like this: 207-Inwood to Far Rockaway via CPW Express, 8th Ave Express, Fulton Exp (all times) 205-Norwood to Lefferts Blvd via CPW Express, 8th Ave Express, Fulton Exp (all times) As is (QB Express late nights) As is 168th St-Wash Hts to Coney Island via CPW Local, 6th Ave express, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Ave Exp, West End (all times) As is Reinstated: Forest Hills 71st to Euclid Ave, Brooklyn via QB Local, 53rd st, 6th Ave Local, Fulton Local (all times) Middle Village to Bay Ridge via 4th Ave Local, Nassau St, Broadway/Mrytle all times Cut back to Whitehall Why do this? 2 reasons: More service to Queens plus demerges both Futlon St and CPW. I think I shared a map of a new connection between Jay St on the tracks to the outer tracks at Hoyt-Schmerhorn Sts a while back. I had a couple of ideas and one of the things I had to settle on was an at-grade junction for southbound trains coming from Jay St seeing as that area is already complicated enough. Unless there was a connection to the old Court St station that allowed for service to return there, I highly doubt this would be an issue. Unfortunately, from what I remember hearing this from a TO, the connection isn't possible on Jay St side of things. Something about the lack of bellmouths if I'm not mistaken which would've been very helpful had it been there and less service disruptive. Though, to be fair, the 63 St connector had to widen QBL to allow for both lines to connect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchytectAnthony Posted Monday at 03:17 AM Share #12368 Posted Monday at 03:17 AM IMO, If we're talking about giving Fulton street a new local service, I think building a short connection from Montague to Hoyt-Schermerhorn and letting the handle Fulton local would be better, sorta like a Brooklyn version of the 21st. connection. 's end at Whitehall already so it would just be a simple extension to Euclid Ave. (Ik this idea was proposed before). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted Monday at 03:43 AM Share #12369 Posted Monday at 03:43 AM Off topic, but I would like to know if it’s really impossible to connect CPW and Broadway Local via provisions north on local track? Even if from 57/7 the next stop being 72 st in CPW? i know connecting to 59 st Columbus is a no-no because of a sharp turn… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted Monday at 02:56 PM Share #12370 Posted Monday at 02:56 PM 11 hours ago, MTA Researcher said: Off topic, but I would like to know if it’s really impossible to connect CPW and Broadway Local via provisions north on local track? Even if from 57/7 the next stop being 72 st in CPW? i know connecting to 59 st Columbus is a no-no because of a sharp turn… From what another RTO personnel has said to me, it's not really possible because of Broadway Express connecting to the 63 St/2 Av line. Unless the local tunnel can go over the 60 St tunnel and then under the 63 St tunnel, but who knows how possible that will be especially with how steep that might end up being. Or they could always just go under the 60 St tunnel to begin with. Regardless, it would be an expensive project unless customers want to change how their commute goes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted Monday at 05:43 PM Share #12371 Posted Monday at 05:43 PM 2 hours ago, Vulturious said: From what another RTO personnel has said to me, it's not really possible because of Broadway Express connecting to the 63 St/2 Av line. Unless the local tunnel can go over the 60 St tunnel and then under the 63 St tunnel, but who knows how possible that will be especially with how steep that might end up being. Or they could always just go under the 60 St tunnel to begin with. Regardless, it would be an expensive project unless customers want to change how their commute goes. Very useful and insightful information. Even though I didn’t want to hear it when it comes to detangling CPW while leaving be CPW Express and have via CPW Local… oh well. That leaves me with one more question how difficult would it be to have 2 Av go Broadway Local and Queens bound trains go Broadway Express? Via 57/7 flip? I had in mind something like this: as is except now would skip 49 st rerouted via Manhattan Bridge via Broadway/4 Av Express (stopping at 45 and 53 Sts) 125 St - Euclid Av: Broadway/Fulton St Local via Montague 125 St - CI: Broadway/4 Av Local via Montague Under this plan Queens commuters capitalize off express service heading downtown, which I’m sure is more than East Harlem. Not to mention yard accessibility with to Pitkin to CIY and to Jamaica. Also line lengths get balanced, not too short or too long. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacster Posted Monday at 06:55 PM Share #12372 Posted Monday at 06:55 PM Isn't it already bad enough having the N crossover at 34th St? You'd be having all the trains cross in front of each other and the whole line would come to a standstill. And that would also leave no train on Brighton. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted Monday at 07:29 PM Share #12373 Posted Monday at 07:29 PM (edited) 34 minutes ago, zacster said: Isn't it already bad enough having the N crossover at 34th St? You'd be having all the trains cross in front of each other and the whole line would come to a standstill. And that would also leave no train on Brighton. What if we flip 57 /7? If Brighton detests Brighton Local; why not have the go 2 Av Express via Manhattan Bridge then via Brighton? This rerouting via Williamsburg and could return. After all wouldn’t be better than ? Edited Monday at 07:30 PM by MTA Researcher Question Mark at the end missing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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