Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[TDL]

11 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Accidentally hit send before I finished, resuming:

would run eventually from 125/Lenox or further west to Euclid Avenue, extended overnights to Lefferts Boulevard.  This would run via a new Remsen Street tunnel from likely Hanover Square, which would in Brooklyn have a stop around Court Street that would include transfers to the and current ( late nights) and as I would eventually have it my version of the  and "Yellow " at Court.  I would be looking to build this to at least Chatham Square even ahead of Phase 3 to it at least is running to lower Manhattan.  It would then come in on the unused local track at Hoyt-Schermerhorn and run as the Fulton Local.  In Manhattan, Seaport if possible also a transfer point between the and all trains in the Fulton complex,

and would both run express on Fulton at all times ( except late nights) to Lefferts (as noted replaced by the late nights) while the  is on a 4/3 split between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park with either the only operating late nights from Broad Channel-Rockaway Park OR the running as a 6 TPH line late nights, equally split between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park so one of the two branches runs every 20 minutes. 

In the suggestion I proposed, Montague would only have two services,  and . No need for anything else.  can end in Hanover Sq or be extended to South Ferry for transit connections.

[TDL]

15 hours ago, Theli11 said:

Like an East River loop route? Not sure if anyone is incentivized to take the  when you can just take... almost any East River route for faster service.

This route only benefits you if you need to go from East Harlem to Clinton Hill/Bed-Stuy. There's better routes.

South Ferry doesn't need more trains considering the fact that 5 lines are already in the area, I think Brooklyn is the best route for the SAS

If there's money for a new tunnel, that is

[Reptile]

Would it be a good idea to connect the 60th St tunnel to the SAS and reroute service down 2nd Av?

This would give an opportunity for SAS to have two trains going into Queens if at some point it is upgraded to have 4 tracks. (the other would go via the 63rd st tunnel)

It would also allow connections to the and maybe make the 34th street junction on the more efficient.

[Vulturious]

17 hours ago, Reptile said:

Would it be a good idea to connect the 60th St tunnel to the SAS and reroute service down 2nd Av?

This would give an opportunity for SAS to have two trains going into Queens if at some point it is upgraded to have 4 tracks. (the other would go via the 63rd st tunnel)

It would also allow connections to the and maybe make the 34th street junction on the more efficient.

Probably not a good idea to split up the 60th St tunnel like this since it's already limited as is with how many trains and 2 other lines running through there. While it frees up how many trains are going through Broadway, that doesn't really give it any service boost either.

[Reptile]

9 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

Probably not a good idea to split up the 60th St tunnel like this since it's already limited as is with how many trains and 2 other lines running through there. While it frees up how many trains are going through Broadway, that doesn't really give it any service boost either.

Ok, I think a better idea would be to create an infill station on the 63rd St line at Crescent or 27th Street and 41st Ave that would have a transfer to the since they're only a block away. Would also possibly decrease some transfer congestion, for example a rider going from Astoria to West 4th wouldn't transfer at Herald Square anymore.

But then again the 60th and 63rd St lines run very close so maybe that's not worth the cost.

[Vulturious]

12 minutes ago, Reptile said:

Ok, I think a better idea would be to create an infill station on the 63rd St line at Crescent or 27th Street and 41st Ave that would have a transfer to the since they're only a block away. Would also possibly decrease some transfer congestion, for example a rider going from Astoria to West 4th wouldn't transfer at Herald Square anymore.

But then again the 60th and 63rd St lines run very close so maybe that's not worth the cost.

Don't think it would've been worth the cost either way because of how close said infill station would be to 21 St-Queensbridge. 

[Reptile]

My finalized (no it's not) plan for the Second Avenue Line

from 125 St-Bway to Euclid Av. This will run via the tunnel after Hanover Sq that I posted about

( V ) from Bayside/Bell Blvd to Coney Island. This will run via the 63rd St tunnel to a new Northern Blvd line with the and an extended Franklin Ave shuttle called the ( K ). It will replace service in Brooklyn, which will operate to Williamsburg and Metropolitan Av.

( Y ) from Fordham University to Brighton Beach. This will run under 3rd Av in the Bronx with the and will be the only Express line on the SAS. Its main aim is to reduce crowding on the . It will replace service in Brooklyn, which will operate to Williamsburg and Jamaica (rush hours using a new third track to go straight from Bway Junction to Woodhaven and then to Jamaica)

Express stations will be 125 St, 72 St, 42 St, 14 St, Houston St, Grand St.

 

[Wallyhorse]

On 3/16/2024 at 10:24 AM, Reptile said:

My finalized (no it's not) plan for the Second Avenue Line

from 125 St-Bway to Euclid Av. This will run via the tunnel after Hanover Sq that I posted about

( V ) from Bayside/Bell Blvd to Coney Island. This will run via the 63rd St tunnel to a new Northern Blvd line with the and an extended Franklin Ave shuttle called the ( K ). It will replace service in Brooklyn, which will operate to Williamsburg and Metropolitan Av.

( Y ) from Fordham University to Brighton Beach. This will run under 3rd Av in the Bronx with the and will be the only Express line on the SAS. Its main aim is to reduce crowding on the . It will replace service in Brooklyn, which will operate to Williamsburg and Jamaica (rush hours using a new third track to go straight from Bway Junction to Woodhaven and then to Jamaica)

Express stations will be 125 St, 72 St, 42 St, 14 St, Houston St, Grand St.

The is exactly as I would do it, except as noted it would be extended late nights to Lefferts to eliminate the late-night shuttle between there and Euclid (the would be the full-time express to Lefferts otherwise).  

I would have a , except this one would be a "black ( V )" that I have noted many times would run from Metropolitan Avenue to Coney Island with the current that also would be extended there as a second local on Brighton while the would become the express to Brighton (extended late nights and weekends to Coney Island).  This would be done via after Myrtle-Broadway on the current station, this ( V ) would be black run via a short stretch of a rebuilt portion of the old Myrtle El with Tompkins Avenue and a transfer point to the  most likely at Bedford-Nostrand before connecting to and absorbing the current Franklin Avenue Shuttle line with the stations rebuilt to two tracks and 600' stations (including Park Place on the current Franklin becoming two levels of single track if necessary)

The you proposed as I would do it would run as you suggested with the (Q), but along the full route of the old 3rd Avenue El (either elevated or as subway) to Gun Hill Road (if elevated, either coming in on a rebuilt lower level or a new upper level of that station) with the stations from the old line considerably consolidated from the past.  This as you suggest could serve as an express line.  

Your version of the  I would in this instance I'll use the  designation for could be the Queens branch of the SAS that would use the same lower level you would have your express tracks on, but would turn off at 79th Street to go to a new stop at York-1st Avenues on 79th and from there a new tunnel before continuing on a new route into Queens that would have it potentially wind up using the never-used upper level of Roosevelt Avenue (or a new lower level) and then run with the as you suggested.

I would also add extending the current  into the Bronx by adding a new station and potential yard at 21st Avenue, then continuing across the East River to the Bronx to Food Service Drive that would be the lone elevated stop on this line in The Bronx before going underground and include stations around East 180th on the  and Westchester/Elder Avenue on the  before ending at Jacobi Medical Center.  This would give people in the Bronx looking for Queens a way to do it without going into Manhattan first. 

[MTA Researcher]

You know what? Forget 2 Av … 

 

2 Av is taking forever and it’s very flawed…

 

Why not focus on QueensLink? The infrastructure is already there, just needs reactivation. Thus I would do this:

  Far Rockaway - Brighton Beach: RBB line - QBL Local - 63rd - 6 Av/Brighton Express

 Rockaway Pk - 95 St: RBB line - QBL Local - 60th - Bway/4 Av Express stopping at 45 and 53 Sts.

 

Rockaway Blvd would be rebuilt to connect  at Lefferts Platform,    at lower level RBB platform. 

Aside from this I have other ideas I won’t disclose because let’s stay on topic regarding which lines should go to Lefferts and Rockaways and if 2 Av is really necessary…

 

[TDL]

10 hours ago, MTA Researcher said:

You know what? Forget 2 Av … 

 

2 Av is taking forever and it’s very flawed…

 

Why not focus on QueensLink? The infrastructure is already there, just needs reactivation. Thus I would do this:

  Far Rockaway - Brighton Beach: RBB line - QBL Local - 63rd - 6 Av/Brighton Express

 Rockaway Pk - 95 St: RBB line - QBL Local - 60th - Bway/4 Av Express stopping at 45 and 53 Sts.

 

Rockaway Blvd would be rebuilt to connect  at Lefferts Platform,    at lower level RBB platform. 

Aside from this I have other ideas I won’t disclose because let’s stay on topic regarding which lines should go to Lefferts and Rockaways and if 2 Av is really necessary…

 

I'd do it this way.

 as is to Far Rockaway for the Brooklyn Connection

-Metropolitan Ave-Rockaway Pk.

-QBL Local to 71st Ave

- Howard Beach/JFK- 161 Yankee Stadium, via. RBB, Junction Blvd-LGA, Rikers Island, 161st Street. This line would connect with the  at Junction Blvd, LGA Airport, any new Rikers Island development once the jail closes, Hunts Point Ave , Intervale Ave , and Yankee Stadium .

 

[Reptile]

Would it be possible to expand the World Trade Center terminal to 3 tracks to allow more service to run? Or is there too much infrastructure in the way?

[Wallyhorse]

17 hours ago, Reptile said:

Would it be possible to expand the World Trade Center terminal to 3 tracks to allow more service to run? Or is there too much infrastructure in the way?

What should have been done there was after 9/11, used that time to connect that part of the 8th Avenue line with the Montague line at Cortlandt-WTC, allowing for the to potentially continue to even 95th Street-Bay Ridge that way as that would have been straight through (possibly with cutting the back to City Hall as was the original plan of the Broadway Local back in the day and doing the required work on the lower level of City Hall).  You could have then possibly closed the platform at Chambers-WTC and instead had a tunnel leading to a transfer to the  at Chambers).  

[Reptile]

Ok, I've finished my new (mostly) deinterlining and expansion plan - let me know what you think

168th St to Far Rockaway

Bedford Pk Blvd or 145 St to Lefferts Blvd

Springfield Gardens (extended from Jamaica Center) to WTC

188 St/73 Av (extended from Forest Hills) to WTC

Note that some trains will have to terminate at 2 Av on the because WTC can't handle all that capacity. This is fine IMO, most riders usually leave by West 4 or Canal, although it will cause interlining at West 4th.

trains, if possible, will switch to the express tracks via a new junction right after the 50th St station before the QBL tracks join in.

207th St to Bay Ridge/95th St, running express to 59th then switching to local.

Co-Op City (extended from Norwood) to Coney Island via Sea Beach

Springfield Blvd (extended from 179th) to Coney Island via Culver

Jamaica-179 St to Church Av - trains will run express on Culver since the can carry that service. Rush hours could possibly run to Kings Highway for even longer service. The will have to interline with the , though.

Note that the and will interline at the 36th St Junction. I feel as though QBL riders will be very mad if this doesn't happen. However, the MTA could build a station on the 63rd St line to connect it to the Queens Plaza station or to the Queensboro Plaza station - this is the only way I could see an "all express via 53rd, all local via 63rd" routing working.

LaGuardia (extended from Astoria) to Coney Island via West End - runs via Montague and 4th Av Local, also a Broadway local

125th St/Broadway (extended from 96th) to Coney Island Brighton Beach

LaGuardia (extended from Astoria) to St. George. It would branch off the 4th Av Local tracks at 59th St and use a new tunnel to Staten Island.

Co-Op City (extended via 3rd Av from 96th) to Euclid Av. This line would use a new tunnel from Hanover Sq to Borough Hall (with connections to the ) which would then dip south to connect with the outer tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn. To keep the Transit museum operating, it would run behind the walls of the Court St station.

Bayside/Bell Blvd to Metropolitan Av/Middle Village. This line would run via a new Northern Blvd line to Broadway in Queens where it would turn and run to Manhattan, having transfers to the . It would run via a new 79th St tunnel with a station at 1st Av to serve Yorkville and then go down to a lower level at 72nd St where the would also run. So 72nd St would be a 6-track station, the top two for service and the bottom 4 for trains. The would run express on 2nd Av stopping at 125th, 72nd, 42nd, 14th, and Houston Sts while the would be local. After Houston St the would copy the 's route.

The and a new green ( H ) route originating in Prospect Park on the Franklin line would run to the Northern Blvd line through a rebuilt Court Sq station that would run under 23rd St rather than Jackson Av and then turn to 21st St to connect with the and also to serve western Astoria.

The would be extended to 72nd St/Broadway to better serve the West Side. The would be rebuilt to be a peak-express route stopping only at Jamaica Center, Sutphin Blvd, Woodhaven Blvd, Crescent St, Broadway Junction, Myrtle Av, and Marcy Av. This would easily make it competitive with the .

Now for the IRT...

42nd St identical, though the would be extended to College Point and Whitestone.

identical but extended to Avenue U/Nostrand Av

Dyre Av to Avenue U/Nostrand Av, replaces service

identical but extended to New Lots and maybe to the Gateway Center

Woodlawn to Kings Plaza, runs via a Utica Av line. This will interline with the at Franklin Av, but it's not that bad.

A new service would be created running from a rebuilt 135 St station to 148 St and maybe extended up to Yankee Stadium through a similar route as the 9th Av el. The Franklin would be cut.

 

 

Edited March 25 by Reptile

[shiznit1987]

Here's my list of transfers and station improvements that the MTA should consider building: 

1) Connecting DeKalb Ave  and Nevins St   in Brooklyn with a fare zone passageway. Will reduce crowding at Atlantic-Barclays 

2) Speaking of DeKalb, the current station should be reconstructed where the island platforms are extended to meet the 4th Ave express tracks, and then the current  tracks would be on the outside pair, with the  tracks being served by new side platforms dug out. So In effect, the station would consist of two pairs of side platforms for the  and two island platforms serving the  . This means in the future we can deinterline DeKalb and make it a easy transfer. 

3) Woodhaven Blvd   needs to be made an express stop. Just do it already.  

4) A connection should be built between Hoyt-Schemerhorn  and Nevins St  as well

5) A transfer between Queens Plaza and QB Plaza

6) A transfer between Lex-63rd st  and Lex-60th  

7) A lower level built on the Lex Express at 51st so the  can stop there. 

8) Connect Columbus Circle   and 57th St on the  

9) Connect Prince St  to the Bleecker St complex  

 

 

 

[Wallyhorse]

On 4/10/2024 at 12:54 PM, shiznit1987 said:

Here's my list of transfers and station improvements that the MTA should consider building: 

1) Connecting DeKalb Ave  and Nevins St   in Brooklyn with a fare zone passageway. Will reduce crowding at Atlantic-Barclays 

2) Speaking of DeKalb, the current station should be reconstructed where the island platforms are extended to meet the 4th Ave express tracks, and then the current  tracks would be on the outside pair, with the  tracks being served by new side platforms dug out. So In effect, the station would consist of two pairs of side platforms for the  and two island platforms serving the  . This means in the future we can deinterline DeKalb and make it a easy transfer. 

3) Woodhaven Blvd   needs to be made an express stop. Just do it already.  

4) A connection should be built between Hoyt-Schemerhorn  and Nevins St  as well

5) A transfer between Queens Plaza and QB Plaza

6) A transfer between Lex-63rd st  and Lex-60th  

7) A lower level built on the Lex Express at 51st so the  can stop there. 

8) Connect Columbus Circle   and 57th St on the  

9) Connect Prince St  to the Bleecker St complex  

Going to address these:

1 and 4:  If such connections can be done via a new underground passageway, then certainly.

2. Not sure how that would work.

3. That is definitely, especially if at some point the Rockaway Beach Branch is re-activated as subway.

5. Blatantly obvious.

6. You would need a long passageway on both 3rd and on Lexington Avenues for this to work.

7. This would help, especially once the SAS station also opens (here it would be possible since such a transfer would be through the Lexi/53rd station on the ).

8. Not sure this is feasible given the Broadway  line station runs from 55th-57th and the  station I believe is from 59th-61st.  To me, it would be better if possible to extend the 63rd Street connector to the 8th Avenue Line if possible, allowing for an 8th Avenue service to access 63rd.  

9. This is another no-brainer.  You could do it from the north end of the side platforms at Prince on the ( late nights) to the  stations around Houston).