NYCT Committee Jan 2016 Proposals: M5 split, M1 extension, B20, Q24, Q70 and Q30 changes

[Mysterious2train]

From this month's Transit and Bus Committee Meeting

 

Link here (starts on page 133)

 

As previously mentioned, the M5 would be split back into two routes:

 

New M5: Would operate between 178th St and around 37th St in Midtown

 

M55: "New" route, would operate between 37th St in Midtown and South Ferry

 

MTA's rationale for terminating both routes at the same point (37th St) is that a lack of available buses prevents a greater overlap between the two routes. 

 

M1: As part of the M5 split, alternate trips would be extended to Worth Street on weekdays, and every trip would be extended on weekends

 

The MTA also plans to hold a public hearing on the M5 split, necessary whenever a route would be heavily altered 

 

Q20 and B24: page 138: Northbound buses rerouted at Broadway Junction via Fulton St and Eastern Parkway, as Van Sinderen Ave becomes one-way southbound only

 

Q30: page 142: service to Queensborough Community College extended from 6 PM to 11 PM 

 

Bus schedule changes: page 145: Proposed frequency and runtime changes to several routes

 

Q70: page 151: Frequency of service increases all day long 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Oh the joy... The M1 already runs piss poor as it is.  I use it here and there to get to or from Metro-North but traffic can be such a mess that I usually wind up just walking unless it's later on after rush hour.  Even on weekends I'll skip using the M1 from Metro-North.  Needs to be more frequent.  Also this whole M55 crappola... Should've just used M5A and call it a day.  

[RailRunRob]

What's wrong with a slightly altered M6 route? Agreed the M5 is way to long. Also there's no northbound bus service in Lower Manhattan between M15,M103 and the M5 on 6th Ave so I can see why maybe they would reinstate M1 service south of 8th street.

[MHV9218]

Restore the M1 Harlem-SF, restore the M5 GWB-GV, forget this nonsense. Limited service below 8th St (with the M6 running) would be nice, but if it's a cost issue, then then the M1 alone and M5 local could suffice. These new routes are a terrible idea. Bad planning by the MTA once--don't need it twice!

[IAlam]

From this month's Transit and Bus Committee Meeting

 

Link here (starts on page 133)

 

As previously mentioned, the M5 would be split back into two routes:

 

New M5: Would operate between 178th St and around 37th St in Midtown

 

M55: "New" route, would operate between 37th St in Midtown and South Ferry

 

MTA's rationale for terminating both routes at the same point (37th St) is that a lack of available buses prevents a greater overlap between the two routes. 

 

M1: As part of the M5 split, alternate trips would be extended to Worth Street on weekdays, and every trip would be extended on weekends

 

The MTA also plans to hold a public hearing on the M5 split, necessary whenever a route would be heavily altered 

 

Q20 and B24: page 138: Northbound buses rerouted at Broadway Junction via Fulton St and Eastern Parkway, as Van Sinderen Ave becomes one-way southbound only

 

Q30: page 142: service to Queensborough Community College extended from 6 PM to 11 PM 

 

Bus schedule changes: page 145: Proposed frequency and runtime changes to several routes

 

Q70: page 151: Frequency of service increases all day long 

In red

What? Q20 or B20?

[MysteriousBtrain]

The 37 St terminal is absolutely terrible. They just put the Q32/M4 on 37 st too, so there will be delays on all 4 routes. If it saves that much money to put the M5 in midtown instead of GV, put it in penn station for an easy connection to the M34.

The M55 is a dump too. Would rather have the entire M6 restored instead of this M55 junk here.

[Q43LTD]

Could have the "M55" the M6, but whatever floats their boat

[S78 via Hylan]

In red

What? Q20 or B20?

They meant the B20 and Q24.

[Fresh Pond]

So they wanna split the M5, but make the M1 longer...

 

As for the B20/Q24, I had a feeling that would be permanent

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm assuming the M5 will keep its limited-stop service, while the M55 is an all-local route. I guess usage on the M7 (northbound) and M1/2/3 (southbound) will increase, as people look for ways to avoid transferring at 37th/38th Street.

 

Oh the joy... The M1 already runs piss poor as it is.  I use it here and there to get to or from Metro-North but traffic can be such a mess that I usually wind up just walking unless it's later on after rush hour.  Even on weekends I'll skip using the M1 from Metro-North.  Needs to be more frequent.  Also this whole M55 crappola... Should've just used M5A and call it a day.  

 

Suffixes like A are usually used for branches, not when you're splitting a route. After the split, the M5 & M55 would have no relationship other than the fact that they terminate in the same general area.

 

Restore the M1 Harlem-SF, restore the M5 GWB-GV, forget this nonsense. Limited service below 8th St (with the M6 running) would be nice, but if it's a cost issue, then then the M1 alone and M5 local could suffice. These new routes are a terrible idea. Bad planning by the MTA once--don't need it twice!

 

Then what happens to the portion of Church/6th between Worth & Houston? You'd have to modify the M1 to travel up 6th between Worth & 8th, and then come across 8th to rejoin the main M1 route. (Which admittedly might be a better idea than what was proposed). 

 

The 37 St terminal is absolutely terrible. They just put the Q32/M4 on 37 st too, so there will be delays on all 4 routes. If it saves that much money to put the M5 in midtown instead of GV, put it in penn station for an easy connection to the M34.
The M55 is a dump too. Would rather have the entire M6 restored instead of this M55 junk here.

 

The M55 will end at 38th, not 37th, so it's only 3 routes running down 37th, not 4.

 

Could have the "M55" the M6, but whatever floats their boat

 

Probably just to feel like they have the last word. Remember when they restored the Bx14, but had it labeled as Bx24?

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

Could have the "M55" the M6, but whatever floats their boat

Reinstating the M6 would mean they would have to accept, they were wrong in eliminating in the first place.

However, introducing the M55 would mean they are improving service.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Those schedule adjustments are pretty problematic in my eyes. Most are reductions in service and some of the cutbacks in particular raise an eyebrow. The Bx12 local gets cutbacks during all 4 weekday periods specified and with the frequencies buses will be running at they might as well use 40 footers instead of artics. And there is a trend with the willingness to cut service on the busiest routes in the system that sends a clear message regarding how the MTA views bus service. The M14 and Q46 see AM and PM Peak cuts, Q58 and Bx15 see midday cuts, B6 sees Saturday afternoon cuts, Bx9 sees AM Peak cuts, Bx12 SBS sees evening cuts. These are some of the last routes I would think about cutting service on. It makes me wonder if the loading data is being fabricated or was surveyed on a non-representative day.

[MysteriousBtrain]

The M55 will end at 38th, not 37th, so it's only 3 routes running down 37th, not 4.

Oh yeah, right. My mind told me for some reason that both 5/6 av were bidirectional streets.

[checkmatechamp13]

Those schedule adjustments are pretty problematic in my eyes. Most are reductions in service and some of the cutbacks in particular raise an eyebrow. The Bx12 local gets cutbacks during all 4 weekday periods specified and with the frequencies buses will be running at they might as well use 40 footers instead of artics. And there is a trend with the willingness to cut service on the busiest routes in the system that sends a clear message regarding how the MTA views bus service. The M14 and Q46 see AM and PM Peak cuts, Q58 and Bx15 see midday cuts, B6 sees Saturday afternoon cuts, Bx9 sees AM Peak cuts, Bx12 SBS sees evening cuts. These are some of the last routes I would think about cutting service on. It makes me wonder if the loading data is being fabricated or was surveyed on a non-representative day.

 

I don't think it's anything to get super-hyped about. The Bx12 local saw a reduction, but the SBS saw an increase in the AM peak. The Bx15 saw midday reductions, but AM peak increases.

 

On Staten Island, the S93 is getting some much-needed improvements in frequency. I've seen people get flagged on some of those midday runs, which should not have been happening on 30 minute headways. S53 gets some rush hour improvements (I'm wondering when they'll realize that it's cheaper to operate those extra buses as limited-stop runs rather than local runs). S54 & S57 also see some rush hour improvements.

 

I wonder what "trip adjustment" stands for.

[Cait Sith]

Reinstating the M6 would mean they would have to accept, they were wrong in eliminating in the first place.

However, introducing the M55 would mean they are improving service.

They already admitted that merging the M5 with the M6 was a mistake, and they did admit they were wrong in that regard.

 

I would also assume that the M1 would still retain it's limited trips from Worth Street.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Those schedule adjustments are pretty problematic in my eyes. Most are reductions in service and some of the cutbacks in particular raise an eyebrow. The Bx12 local gets cutbacks during all 4 weekday periods specified and with the frequencies buses will be running at they might as well use 40 footers instead of artics. And there is a trend with the willingness to cut service on the busiest routes in the system that sends a clear message regarding how the MTA views bus service. The M14 and Q46 see AM and PM Peak cuts, Q58 and Bx15 see midday cuts, B6 sees Saturday afternoon cuts, Bx9 sees AM Peak cuts, Bx12 SBS sees evening cuts. These are some of the last routes I would think about cutting service on. It makes me wonder if the loading data is being fabricated or was surveyed on a non-representative day.

 

Did you notice that some other routes had increases?

 

Maybe some ridership patterns have shifted. Maybe some riders switched from the M14 to the or from the Q46 to the QM1/QM5/QM6.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Did you notice that some other routes had increases?

 

Maybe some ridership patterns have shifted. Maybe some riders switched from the M14 to the or from the Q46 to the QM1/QM5/QM6.

53 reductions were proposed compared to 28 increases. Let's not let the few positives distract us from what's really going on.

[Q43 Floral Park]

From this month's Transit and Bus Committee Meeting

 

Link here (starts on page 133)

 

Q30: page 142: service to Queensborough Community College extended from 6 PM to 11 PM 

 

 

I'm not sure how this is an improvement post NE Queens Bus Study ...

 

1. Currently, the last run hits QCC at 7:13PM (leaving Jamaica @6:34, not 5:59) and leaves QCC at 7:27. So that's 35-88 mins of service they aren't accounting for.

2.Furthermore, they aren't specifying how much service is being lost East of Springfield between 6:34PM (EB) or 7:27 PM (WB) and 11:09PM by diverting more buses to QCC. If they continued sending alternating buses to QCC after 9 it would create 40 min headways which makes no sense.  You could loop all the later runs thru QCC but thats gonna be a solid 5-10 mins added to the run. 

3. The real slap in the face is that they still didn't restore the late night runs. 

 

IMO dedicating the Q75 as the Jamaica-QCC route via 73 Av would be better than consistently cutting service on the Q30 and marketing it as a win win for all

[checkmatechamp13]

53 reductions were proposed compared to 28 increases. Let's not let the few positives distract us from what's really going on.

 

And bus ridership has been declining in general, so it makes sense that minor reductions would be made. There's been times in the past when these routine service adjustments resulted in an increase in the budget (I remember it involved adding rush hour M8 service while reducing midday M8 service. I forget when exactly)

 

Apparently the Q70 will run every 20 minutes overnight instead of every 30 minutes: http://www.mta.info/news-mta-bus-q70-laguardia-bus/2016/01/22/fast-and-reliable-bus-connection-will-operate-every-8-10

[Gotham Bus Co.]

53 reductions were proposed compared to 28 increases. Let's not let the few positives distract us from what's really going on.

 

What's really doing on is that some routes had cuts and some had increases. It means that ridership went down in some places and up in other places. It means that passengers are allowed to change their riding patterns (e.g change jobs, graduate, get married, retire, move away, move in) instead of having to stay with one thing forever just to keep one bus fan happy.

[B35 via Church]

Parts of Broadway should have never been tampered with to create these pedestrian malls.... It starts there.

However...

 

Splitting the M5 route into two shorter routes should help to mitigate the effects of delays along the route while allowing for better recovery from delays and providing more even and reliable service for customers.

I like the general use of the term customers here, as if the M5 doesn't have multiple ridership patterns....

 

The "customers" that would benefit from this split would be the riderbase that currently tanks out at Columbus Circle from the north, and begins utilizing the route due north, anywhere b/w 57th & 72nd.... In other words, the UWS & Washington Hgts. riders....

 

This split won't do shit for the riderbase that begins utilizing M5's @ Columbus Circle due south, and disembarks no further north than 72nd..... Unless the MTA plans on increasing service for these "customers" - which of course won't happen.....

 

My ultimate point - Turnover does NOT happen around 34th st with the M5.

 

It is estimated that 14% of M5 customers would have to transfer between the north and south portions of the route in order to complete their trip, but the majority of customers will experience improved reliability without any inconvenience.

The operative word here is "have"....

 

To me, this is another way of saying that M5 riders have other options to choose from, than having to xfer b/w the (truncated) M5 & this "M55" creation.... You know, like the subway - With which the Broadway line has plenty of riders using it for short distances already.... You may as well not even come out with this "M55".... the N/R/Q is going to replace it, for enough M5 south riders..... NB ridership on the M5 does not die at 34th/37th street (not even close); 37th st is too far south for where a large amt. of riders are using NB M5's for......

 

I've said/proposed this before, and I'll say it again... There should be a route running b/w South Ferry & 72nd st (via the M5).....

A route running between South Ferry & 34th st is too abrupt....

-------------------------

 

There is no sensical rationale for splitting the M5 @ 37th st (or 34th if it were feasible)... None.

[NewFlyer 230]

I wonder how frequent this new M55 is going to run. If it runs every 30 minutes you can forget about anyone really using it.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I wonder how frequent this new M55 is going to run. If it runs every 30 minutes you can forget about anyone really using it.

I doubt that will be the headways on the M55. It'll be more frequent, but I believe that the route will have slightly less frequent service than the current M5.

[TransitJusticeForAll]

Ok. I'm somewhat liking what I'm hearing and reading so far, BUT, the Q30 should get back its overnight service back, and the M6 should simply just get it's name back, since it was the route that got “the boot” back in 2010.

[Q43LTD]

Why does the Q30 have longer span to QCC than the Q27?