NYCT Committee Jan 2016 Proposals: M5 split, M1 extension, B20, Q24, Q70 and Q30 changes

[MysteriousBtrain]

I wonder how frequent this new M55 is going to run. If it runs every 30 minutes you can forget about anyone really using it.

Nah. It's not a completely new route like the B32 and M12. The M55 will likely be as or a bit less frequent than the M5.

[B35 via Church]

I wonder how frequent this new M55 is going to run. If it runs every 30 minutes you can forget about anyone really using it.

I doubt that will be the headways on the M55. It'll be more frequent, but I believe that the route will have slightly less frequent service than the current M5.

I wonder how infrequent the northern split of the M5 will be.... Unfortunately, I still think it's setting up for an elimination of service along Riverside dr (as I have said on here years ago)... I'm not buying the issue of reliability - especially for those that currently utilize the M5 b/w (the 30's [sts.]) & S. Ferry........

 

* To note, Washington Hgts. folks, generally speaking, don't ride the route past the infamous 3333 Broadway complex (135th st)..... Although you'll get some that take the M5 as an alternative to the .....

 

Ok. I'm somewhat liking what I'm hearing and reading so far, BUT, the Q30 should get back its overnight service back......

....and why is that?

 

Why does the Q30 have longer span to QCC than the Q27?

QCC is more of a school route than the Q27?

 

Seriously though, it does seem as if there are more students/faculty coming from Jamaica, compared to Flushing, to get to QCC.....

[Missabassie]

Ending the M1 at worth street is totally pointless. If i'm at Broadway/Waverly pl and need to get to the Ferry, Worth st. does nothing for me or anyone else.

[checkmatechamp13]

I like the general use of the term customers here, as if the M5 doesn't have multiple ridership patterns....

 

The "customers" that would benefit from this split would be the riderbase that currently tanks out at Columbus Circle from the north, and begins utilizing the route due north, anywhere b/w 57th & 72nd.... In other words, the UWS & Washington Hgts. riders....

 

This split won't do shit for the riderbase that begins utilizing M5's @ Columbus Circle due south, and disembarks no further north than 72nd..... Unless the MTA plans on increasing service for these "customers" - which of course won't happen.....

 

My ultimate point - Turnover does NOT happen around 34th st with the M5.

 

The operative word here is "have"....

 

To me, this is another way of saying that M5 riders have other options to choose from, than having to xfer b/w the (truncated) M5 & this "M55" creation.... You know, like the subway - With which the Broadway line has plenty of riders using it for short distances already.... You may as well not even come out with this "M55".... the N/R/Q is going to replace it, for enough M5 south riders..... NB ridership on the M5 does not die at 34th/37th street (not even close); 37th st is too far south for where a large amt. of riders are using NB M5's for......

 

I've said/proposed this before, and I'll say it again... There should be a route running b/w South Ferry & 72nd st (via the M5).....

A route running between South Ferry & 34th st is too abrupt....

-------------------------

 

There is no sensical rationale for splitting the M5 @ 37th st (or 34th if it were feasible)... None.

 

Those people that start using the M5 to head further south (that get on between 72nd & Columbus Circle), how far south do they usually go? How much use would the M7 be to them? (For northbound riders on 6th).

 

The only (logical) reason I can think of for having the split at 37th/38th as opposed to Columbus Circle is for the sake of having a route from the northern portion of the UWS (meaning, north of 72nd) going in the general direction of East Midtown. Unless, like you said, they have more sinister intentions behind this.

 

Of course, one of the other things that plays a role (especially in Manhattan bus service) is frequency. So even if you leave them with the M7 as their only direct option, a large chunk of those through-riders are probably going to go to the subway (or taxis).

 

I wonder how infrequent the northern split of the M5 will be.... Unfortunately, I still think it's setting up for an elimination of service along Riverside dr (as I have said on here years ago)... I'm not buying the issue of reliability - especially for those that currently utilize the M5 b/w (the 30's [sts.]) & S. Ferry........

 

* To note, Washington Hgts. folks, generally speaking, don't ride the route past the infamous 3333 Broadway complex (135th st)..... Although you'll get some that take the M5 as an alternative to the .....

 

If that ridership base (from Columbus Circle going north towards the UWS/Washington Heights) is basically covered, how would it reduce ridership to the point where it can set them up for eliminating Riverside Drive service (serious question)?

 

Ending the M1 at worth street is totally pointless. If i'm at Broadway/Waverly pl and need to get to the Ferry, Worth st. does nothing for me or anyone else.

 

I think the idea is to avoid some of the traffic in Lower Manhattan, with the construction going on around the WTC northbound and the Fulton Street area southbound (no idea what that's about since I thought the Fulton Street Transit Center was finished). But still, I do agree that Worth Street is kind of a pointless terminal. For all that, they might as well have just kept it ending at 8th Street and left people taking the M103 or (new) M55 if they wanted to go further south.

 

I will say the ferry itself isn't that popular a destination for M5 riders. Most ferry riders would rather chance it with the train as opposed to dealing with the M5, knowing that time is critical when you're trying to catch the ferry (For riders south of City Hall, the generally have good frequencies if you can deal with the crowding). Out of the people taking the local bus to the ferry on the Manhattan side, the majority use the M15 (especially the SBS). Very few people actually take the M5 or M20.

[Lordsaitamaboss]

I wonder how infrequent the northern split of the M5 will be.... Unfortunately, I still think it's setting up for an elimination of service along Riverside dr (as I have said on here years ago)... I'm not buying the issue of reliability - especially for those that currently utilize the M5 b/w (the 30's [sts.]) & S. Ferry........

 

* To note, Washington Hgts. folks, generally speaking, don't ride the route past the infamous 3333 Broadway complex (135th st)..... Although you'll get some that take the M5 as an alternative to the .....

 

....and why is that?

 

QCC is more of a school route than the Q27?

 

Seriously though, it does seem as if there are more students/faculty coming from Jamaica, compared to Flushing, to get to QCC.....

 

Is ridership on riverside drive that low? That corridor has no subway service why cut bus service from there.

Ending the M1 at worth street is totally pointless. If i'm at Broadway/Waverly pl and need to get to the Ferry, Worth st. does nothing for me or anyone else.

checkmate already said it best take the subway.

[Missabassie]

I think the idea is to avoid some of the traffic in Lower Manhattan, with the construction going on around the WTC northbound and the Fulton Street area southbound (no idea what that's about since I thought the Fulton Street Transit Center was finished). But still, I do agree that Worth Street is kind of a pointless terminal. For all that, they might as well have just kept it ending at 8th Street and left people taking the M103 or (new) M55 if they wanted to go further south.

 

 

I will say the ferry itself isn't that popular a destination for M5 riders. Most ferry riders would rather chance it with the train as opposed to dealing with the M5, knowing that time is critical when you're trying to catch the ferry (For riders south of City Hall, the generally have good frequencies if you can deal with the crowding). Out of the people taking the local bus to the ferry on the Manhattan side, the majority use the M15 (especially the SBS). Very few people actually take the M5 or M20.

 

 

Is ridership on riverside drive that low? That corridor has no subway service why cut bus service from there.

checkmate already said it best take the subway.

 

I was using that as an example. I did not mean it literally.

[checkmatechamp13]

I was using that as an example. I did not mean it literally.

 

I know you were, and I agree that ending at Worth Street is pointless, because it misses a lot of major destinations in Lower Manhattan (whether South Ferry should be counted as one of them is debatable). We're both on the same page when it comes to that.

[MTA Orion Bus]

I would say the extension on the Q30 QCC service is overall good. I wonder if there are any ideas of bringing back night service on the Q30 that was elminated back in 2010.

[checkmatechamp13]

I would say the extension on the Q30 QCC service is overall good. I wonder if there are any ideas of bringing back night service on the Q30 that was elminated back in 2010.

 

The NE Queens Study says that they are looking into it (page 6). 

[JerBear]

I'm not sure how this is an improvement post NE Queens Bus Study...

 

I don't know either, but it's not what was asked for. So many people at Avella's North East Queens Comprehensive Bus Study Public Workshop were adamant That NYCT needed to separate out the college people from the regular riders. The regular riders hate the college riders and what they've done to the Q30, and the college riders didn't think they were getting enough. But someone compared it to the Q33/Q70 spin-off that NYCT did a few years ago: take a portion of the route and just do the college, and leave the rest of us alone. I don't remember seeing anything about that in the final study, but it was very clear in the meeting.

[IAlam]

That's why I've suggested a route like the Q27X a route that directly goes from Flushing to QCC via LIE. although most people like the Q30 its mostly because that part of the route usually takes less time if the Q27 was the faster option, I'm pretty sure that they would take that instead, mostly because these college kids are pretty much just trying to get to the nearest train station. and sound more attractive than the but a Q27X would make a more attractive and alleviate the Q30 in the process 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Parts of Broadway should have never been tampered with to create these pedestrian malls.... It starts there.

However...

 

 

I like the general use of the term customers here, as if the M5 doesn't have multiple ridership patterns....

 

The "customers" that would benefit from this split would be the riderbase that currently tanks out at Columbus Circle from the north, and begins utilizing the route due north, anywhere b/w 57th & 72nd.... In other words, the UWS & Washington Hgts. riders....

 

This split won't do shit for the riderbase that begins utilizing M5's @ Columbus Circle due south, and disembarks no further north than 72nd..... Unless the MTA plans on increasing service for these "customers" - which of course won't happen.....

 

My ultimate point - Turnover does NOT happen around 34th st with the M5.

 

The operative word here is "have"....

 

To me, this is another way of saying that M5 riders have other options to choose from, than having to xfer b/w the (truncated) M5 & this "M55" creation.... You know, like the subway - With which the Broadway line has plenty of riders using it for short distances already.... You may as well not even come out with this "M55".... the N/R/Q is going to replace it, for enough M5 south riders..... NB ridership on the M5 does not die at 34th/37th street (not even close); 37th st is too far south for where a large amt. of riders are using NB M5's for......

 

I've said/proposed this before, and I'll say it again... There should be a route running b/w South Ferry & 72nd st (via the M5).....

A route running between South Ferry & 34th st is too abrupt....

-------------------------

 

There is no sensical rationale for splitting the M5 @ 37th st (or 34th if it were feasible)... None.

Agreed... I want to know if they need to consult with any community boards regarding this change.  The M5 should go back to Houston Street, and the M6 should be restored from 59th to South Ferry.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Why does the Q30 have longer span to QCC than the Q27?

 

According to the Q27 public timetable (http://web.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/queens/q027cur.pdf), the last northbound and southbound Q27 trips through QCC are at 11:08PM, so having the Q30 run there until 11:09PM isn't too objectionable.

 

 

That's why I've suggested a route like the Q27X a route that directly goes from Flushing to QCC via LIE. 

 

Would it really be faster to use the L.I.E.? It's south of the regular route and it would get bogged down at Springfield & Horace Harding.

[IAlam]

According to the Q27 public timetable (http://web.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/queens/q027cur.pdf), the last northbound and southbound Q27 trips through QCC are at 11:08PM, so having the Q30 run there until 11:09PM isn't too objectionable.

 

 

 

 

Would it really be faster to use the L.I.E.? It's south of the regular route and it would get bogged down at Springfield & Horace Harding.

Although I wouldn't save much time but it diverts riders with a more attractive option. Think of it like the X17 and X17J, the X17J is that much faster than the X17 but the X17J is much more attractive than the X17 because no one want cross all of downtown to get to midtown. The same would apply to the Q27 

[Cait Sith]

Although I wouldn't save much time but it diverts riders with a more attractive option. Think of it like the X17 and X17J, the X17J is that much faster than the X17 but the X17J is much more attractive than the X17 because no one want cross all of downtown to get to midtown. The same would apply to the Q27 

 

You can't compare the x17 to the x17J since the x17 itself only runs after the rush hour. The x17A and x17J run during the rush, the x17 runs before and after the rush hours.

 

Also, when you factor in traffic, you're not really saving much time with either.

[Q43LTD]

Here's what I got:

 

The M5 should be split at Columbus Circle, not Herald Square. Such an arbitrary terminal. Same for the M1 ending at Worth St. It should at least go to South Ferry. Maybe the doesn't wanna saturate Broadway with bus service? I don't know.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Here's what I got:

 

The M5 should be split at Columbus Circle, not Herald Square. Such an arbitrary terminal. Same for the M1 ending at Worth St. It should at least go to South Ferry. Maybe the doesn't wanna saturate Broadway with bus service? I don't know.

That's precisely it.  They want folks taking the subway for longer trips.  

[Q43LTD]

That's precisely it. They want folks taking the subway for longer trips.

That's the thing for folks. They're at the mercy at the and

[Q43 Floral Park]

According to the Q27 public timetable (http://web.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/queens/q027cur.pdf), the last northbound and southbound Q27 trips through QCC are at 11:08PM, so having the Q30 run there until 11:09PM isn't too objectionable.

 

The Q27 runs through QCC whereas the Q30 alternates to QCC and terminates there. Running the Q27 through there until 11 doesn't cause a loss of service to Cambria Heights. Seeing as the MTA didn't suggest running the addition Q30 runs through QCC (looping back down to HHE),  my objection is that continuing to alternate Q30s from QCC after the 7:27 W/B run and 8:55pm E/B run will result in 24-40 min headways East of Springfield. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

The Q27 runs through QCC whereas the Q30 alternates to QCC and terminates there. Running the Q27 through there until 11 doesn't cause a loss of service to Cambria Heights. Seeing as the MTA didn't suggest running the addition Q30 runs through QCC (looping back down to HHE),  my objection is that continuing to alternate Q30s from QCC after the 7:27 W/B run and 8:55pm E/B run will result in 24-40 min headways East of Springfield. 

 

That depends. Will they simply reroute every other trips, or will they add the new QCC trips on top of the existing Little Neck trips?

[checkmatechamp13]

The Q27 runs through QCC whereas the Q30 alternates to QCC and terminates there. Running the Q27 through there until 11 doesn't cause a loss of service to Cambria Heights. Seeing as the MTA didn't suggest running the addition Q30 runs through QCC (looping back down to HHE),  my objection is that continuing to alternate Q30s from QCC after the 7:27 W/B run and 8:55pm E/B run will result in 24-40 min headways East of Springfield. 

 

That depends. Will they simply reroute every other trips, or will they add the new QCC trips on top of the existing Little Neck trips?

 

It says that it will cost $0.4 million. Cutting half the trips back to QCC would save them some money, so I would imagine it's something in the middle (more buses between Jamaica and HHE/Springfield, and less frequent service on the outer ends)

 

So the 12 minute headways might become 20 minute headways, and the 20 minute headways might become 30 minute headways out to Little Neck.

[DS4Ever]

So theMTA is considering reviving the before 2010eliminated routes and services

 

Remember the M5 ran to Greenwich village and the M1 ran to south ferry weekdays and the m6 ran from 59st to south ferry

 

You see that MTA years later reasons the loss of those route service cuts but they want to relive it by a whole new numbering (m55 for the m6)

 

Same happene . On the. Today bx24 and q36 post Floral Park (bx14 and q79 respectively )...

 

Other routes that relived were the. B64 back to coney island the bx5 and bx8 back on their original route

[checkmatechamp13]

So theMTA is considering reviving the before 2010eliminated routes and services

 

Remember the M5 ran to Greenwich village and the M1 ran to south ferry weekdays and the m6 ran from 59st to south ferry

 

You see that MTA years later reasons the loss of those route service cuts but they want to relive it by a whole new numbering (m55 for the m6)

 

Same happene . On the. Today bx24 and q36 post Floral Park (bx14 and q79 respectively )...

 

Other routes that relived were the. B64 back to coney island the bx5 and bx8 back on their original route

 

Except the new M5 is terminating at 37th Street instead of Houston Street, and the M55 is terminating at 38th Street instead of 59th Street.

 

The Q79 ran Saturdays, whereas the Q36 only runs up Little Neck Parkway on weekdays.

[JerBear]

So theMTA is considering reviving the before 2010eliminated routes and services

Except the Q75. During the North East Queens Comprehensive Bus Study Public Workshop, many people said they wanted it back. The NYCT employees refused to talk about it. I know some people specifically asked Tony Avella to ask NYCT to restore it.

Then the study got released. It is mentioned in the sections on what got cut. But that's it. Nothing more. No consideration, no discussion. No hint of a possibility that they might restore it.

[IAlam]

You can't compare the x17 to the x17J since the x17 itself only runs after the rush hour. The x17A and x17J run during the rush, the x17 runs before and after the rush hours.

 

Also, when you factor in traffic, you're not really saving much time with either.

Actually the X17 and X17J do have runs that overlap both in the morning and afternoon so it is safe to compare them during that time period which is exactly what I was doing