MTA Historical Subway Proposals

[GojiMet86]

I decided to make a thread to compile all the various official proposals that have propped up throughout the years.

 

Let's start with these, from the ERA Bulletins available at Issuu. These were published in the issues that came out in 2004:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RailRunRob]

The Burke Ave line almost made it.. would have been cool to see trains cross that Bronx Park Viaduct.

[LTA1992]

The Burke Ave line almost made it.. would have been cool to see trains cross that Bronx Park Viaduct.

But Moses had to come along and get the money for it taken away for use on the Belt System.

 

Good thing he didn't get the NYW&B right of way for his Express Toll Truck Highway.

[RailRunRob]

I remember hearing about that. It's certainly bitter sweet had he gotten the NYWB we more than certainly would've had that Burke Avenue subway.

 

 

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[Union Tpke]

 

 

 

img by spicker613, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2016-03-31 at 8.13.14 PM by spicker613, on Flickr

[Union Tpke]

Screen Shot 2016-03-31 at 8.31.07 PM by spicker613, on Flickr

[RailRunRob]

So there were plans to take over The Port Washington line? And convert and tie it in to the Subway?

 

 

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[Union Tpke]

So there were plans to take over The Port Washington line? And convert and tie it in to the Subway?

 

 

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yes

[RailRunRob]

yes

This was pre MTA? Late 60's?

[Union Tpke]

This was pre MTA? Late 60's?

 

This was from 1963. I had to do some digging on the online web archives to find that one. I also so it physically at the municipal archives.

[RailRunRob]

I remember reading there were proposals of extending the subway as far north as New Rochelle as well or atlease a call for it via the NYW&B. It's funny seems like as soon as the MTA was created Service beyond the city limits became a taboo. That was actually a good idea.

 

 

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[Union Tpke]

I remember reading there were proposals of extending the subway as far north as New Rochelle as well or atlease a call for it via the NYW&B. It's funny seems like as soon as the MTA was created Service beyond the city limits became a taboo. That was actually a good idea.

 

 

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I can show you another proposal. This one was to Yonkers, actually supported by the Mayor of Yonkers.

Yonkers-page-001 by spicker613, on Flickr

[RailRunRob]

MTA should be creating a new division maybe a C division and put the Staten Island Railway, A converted LIRR BayRidge, Port Washington and a reactivated Rockaway branch under that umbrella. It's relatively low hanging fruit integrate it into the existing lines with transfers and fare structures. And build to FRA standards. Could help with mobility of the region greatly at a fraction of the cost.

 

 

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I can show you another proposal. This one was to Yonkers, actually supported by the Mayor of Yonkers.

Yonkers-page-001 by spicker613, on Flickr

 

Look at that

Was the old Putnam.. Electrified? I remember walking those tracks as a kid through Van Cortlandt Park.

 

 

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[Lance]

So there were plans to take over The Port Washington line? And convert and tie it in to the Subway?

 

 

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There were a few plans to take pieces of the LIRR for subway use. Obviously the only one that actually materialized was the capture of the Rockaways line for service.

 

This was pre MTA? Late 60's?

Based on the date at the bottom of the screenshot and the plans themselves, this dates back to around 1950. Note the inclusion of Chrystie St, fixing DeKalb Junction and the complete recapturing of the Pelham Line for 2nd Avenue service. Regarding the last one, later plans would only call for the elevated section of Pelham to be converted.

[LTA1992]

I remember reading there were proposals of extending the subway as far north as New Rochelle as well or atlease a call for it via the NYW&B. It's funny seems like as soon as the MTA was created Service beyond the city limits became a taboo. That was actually a good idea.

 

 

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Well actually, the idea was thrown around by the mayor of New Rochelle around the time the BOT purchased the NYW&B. But LaGuardia rightly stated that we in New York City already have our problems. He cannot solve the transit problems of New Rochelle.

[RailRunRob]

Well actually, the idea was thrown around by the mayor of New Rochelle around the time the BOT purchased the NYW&B. But LaGuardia rightly stated that we in New York City already have our problems. He cannot solve the transit problems of New Rochelle.

Right I remember reading that in the routes not taking book a few years back. While I can't blame them for taking that stance at the time. I don't believe that to be true today. The problems that don't stop at the borders of the city far outweigh the ones that do. Do you still think the city should take that approach or move to adopt a regional approach especially towards transportation?

[bobtehpanda]

Right I remember reading that in the routes not taking book a few years back. While I can't blame them for taking that stance at the time. I don't believe that to be true today. The problems that don't stop at the borders of the city far outweigh the ones that do. Do you still think the city should take that approach or move to adopt a regional approach especially towards transportation?

 

If New Rochelle wants it, New Rochelle can pay for it.

 

We already contribute to regional integration plenty; ESA is a regional project, as well as the Metro-North stations in the Bronx as part of Penn Station Access. ESA alone is a $10B+ project. We can't afford to do more.

[Lance]

As someone who lives in New Rochelle, I couldn't agree more. Besides, what could NYC do at this point to expand service in Westchester anyhow?

[Fresh Pond]

MTA should be creating a new division maybe a C division and put the Staten Island Railway, A converted LIRR BayRidge, Port Washington and a reactivated Rockaway branch under that umbrella. It's relatively low hanging fruit integrate it into the existing lines with transfers and fare structures. And build to FRA standards. Could help with mobility of the region greatly at a fraction of the cost

C Division is Maintenance of Way, and other work equipment

[RailRunRob]

If New Rochelle wants it, New Rochelle can pay for it.

 

We already contribute to regional integration plenty; ESA is a regional project, as well as the Metro-North stations in the Bronx as part of Penn Station Access. ESA alone is a $10B+ project. We can't afford to do more.

The ESA is a step in the right direction i'm fully aware but to your point we know there's still capacity limits at Penn. Let's say this service proves super popular starts to boost property sales in a Cos-Cob or New Rochelle then what? My point wasn't to extend at capacity subway lines beyond the city limits. I was just asking the question on perspective and in the long run what's difference between NYC and Westchester or Nassua don't they go hand and hand?  Over the next century with most of the world's population moving to cities and metro area's around the world can we afford to play by 20th century rules?.  Housing stock in White Plains is interconnected with CBD here in Manhattan or housing stock in Forest Hills and employment in Huntington. Im simply saying why not make what we have work together a little better inter agency transfers better connections and transfers. From this point on why not have a regional view even with projects based in the city for better integration. Im not sure any of us fully understands what we can afford. We spend billions upon billions on technology and defense of which half never see the light of day.. The one thing I can say from a perspective of someone running his own you have to spend money to make it especially more of it.        

C Division is Maintenance of Way, and other work equipment

Yep.. aware of the rules regulations 35MPH for trash trains 25MPH or work so forth and so forth.. if something like this were to come to light i'm sure they could rename the maintenance division.

[Lance]

Before we start expanding service outside of the city borders, how about we fix some of the transit deficiencies within the city. There are wide gaps where transit options are few and far between, like along the 3rd Avenue-Webster corridor and in sections of the outer boroughs.

[RailRunRob]

Before we start expanding service outside of the city borders, how about we fix some of the transit deficiencies within the city. There are wide gaps where transit options are few and far between, like along the 3rd Avenue-Webster corridor and in sections of the outer boroughs.

Not saying I disagree with you. But on the same token it's not any of our fault that the previous generation deferred maintenance and planing that badly. Regional and civic growth isn't going to wait for us to catch up. What are we doing to make sure we don't screw our kids and grandkids? Just falling farther farther behind They better learn to walk and chew gum at the same time.

[ttcsubwayfan]

If areas outside the city want it, they can pay for it, and it will get built, no one is saying that shouldn't happen. But New York has enough issues within the city limits that need to be addressed before expansion that is paid for by the city, agencies, taxpayers, etc.

[RailRunRob]

Once again I don't think this type of thinking sustainable. Let's let history serve as a guide connectivity is everything The only reason we're talking about the New York City subways because somebody decided to build here based on connectivity to the old world. This country is what it is today and was able to expand because the connectivity from shipping down the Mississippi to the railroads connecting east to west. So with that as a foundation it's really hard for me to understand the monotonous thinking. Millions of people cross these imaginary lines daily when I'm driving on the parkway or interstate when I cross the city limits I expect everything to be seamless i'm not saying to myself oh well Yonkers should be handling this part of the road I just want to get from A to B how do we move forward with everybody Saying what they can't do based on the rules and the mess that their predecessors put in place.Every once in a while someone comes along and rethinks how it could be done that's the only way we get progress. The point is just better interoperability between the agencies towns and counties what's so hard about that. If I'm missing something let me know besides the funding points.

 

 

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[Lance]

Let's not pretend the areas outside of New York City are the transit deserts you're making them out to be. You've got Metro-North serving almost every town in the northern suburbs and the LIRR for better or worse out in Long Island. In Westchester, there is the Bee-Line bus network serving a large portion of the county. Things aren't perfect up here either, but the day I see NYC expanding subway service up here is the day I hit Lotto, Mega Millions and PowerBall all at the same time and then get struck by lightning.

 

Besides, where in the hell would you build a subway up here anyhow? Better question, how would you connect it to the existing network in NYC?