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CNYRTA (Centro) bus orders


RailBus63

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The Central New York Regional Transportation Authority (Centro) in Syracuse now has three bus orders underway with Gillig.  The first order is for seven 40-foot CNG buses for delivery this summer.  These will replace the five 2003 Orion V CNG 35-footers (#2378-2382) and are being purchased using an available option from the Akron Ohio transit agency. 

 

In 2015 the CNYRTA put out to bid a five-year deal for up to 84 buses in various lengths and fuel system configurations. The bid was awarded to Gillig and the first order was placed for ten 29-foot clean diesel buses to replace the 2004 New Flyer D30LF's (#2400-2409).  These will be delivered in 2017.

 

In February a second order was placed with Gillig for 42 40-foot CNG buses to replace the 2005 New Flyer D40LF's (#2500-2522) and C40LF's (#2523-2541).  The order is contingent on available funding, so it could be cut back to fewer buses or cancelled entirely if no funding is available.

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Pricing for those Gilligs is mighty high, even for CNG.  29-footers are $423,188 each (10 total, Nov 2015), and 40-footers are "not to exceed" $485,000 each (7 total, Feb 2015).  Total 5 year plan for up to 84 buses is $44,230,000 -- and at the time the idea was floated, there was going to be a $20,000,000 (yes, 20 million) shortfall in funding it.

 

If you scrub around the board minutes, you'll find that they're not exactly having a good time with CNG.  State was supposed to give a $515,000 tax credit, of which around 1/4 was to be applied toward 1st Qtr 2016 budget.  Also there are line items such as repairs/improvements needed to the CNG facility, and overhauling of buses themselves.

 

They've also had a $8 million "rainy day fund" which is supposed to be for PM that has been being raided for general operations.  So PM is getting deferred, no action was extended toward New Flyer for an overhaul similar to CTA's to prolong the life of the current fleet (and possibly securing new contracts) or even using NFI's extended warranty options.  If they've been able to defer PM on New Flyers that are around 10 years old, they're not going to be able to do that with those Gilligs, which is the same design today as when their lowfloors were introduced.

 

They're going to have an eye-opening experience with those Gilligs.  Detroit got one order of Gilligs and went right back to New Flyer, and their 2004 D40LFs are still running today, with the entire fleet out on weekends.

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Centro has been operating Gillig Low Floor buses since 2008, so they should have some idea by now what they are getting.

 

They have been doing body work on many of the D40LF's and repainting them in the new scheme.  I suspect that the order may end up being as low as 19 buses to replace the C40LF's with the diesels soldiering on for a while.

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Centro has been operating Gillig Low Floor buses since 2008, so they should have some idea by now what they are getting.

 

They have been doing body work on many of the D40LF's and repainting them in the new scheme.  I suspect that the order may end up being as low as 19 buses to replace the C40LF's with the diesels soldiering on for a while.

Oh, I don't think so.  Our SMART Gilligs are 2002-3 mix of 29/35/40, and they are falling apart.  They got old 2004 D40LFs just beginning service that have had rough usage with DDOT, and those Flyers show a little age but are nowhere near the condition of the Gilligs.  Windows ready to fall out, suspension problems, roof leaks, interior panels that pop open for no reason, interior rust/paint bubbling around the entry, and rattle-rattle-rattle over even minor road imperfections.  And these buses have between 500,000 and 700,000 on the clock, plus have not done the 2-block stop-and-go like the DDOT Flyers.

 

If they've been saving on PM so far, that's not going to be the way forward as those Gilligs age.

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I don't work for Centro so I have no idea - I was just pointing out that they've been operating Gilligs for nine years (sine 2007 actually - I forgot those 11 buses) so they do have some experience.  In terms of PM, from my observations Centro does a decent job - even their older buses ride well with few rattles or other signs of neglect.  I haven't ridden one of the Gilligs lately, though - I'll try to and see how they are holding up.

 

FWIW, Centro did have an issue a few years ago with the New Flyer LF's showing accelerated body deterioration, to the point that New Flyer took the buses a few at a time up to one of their facilities in Canada for work.  Again, we'll see how the Gilligs hold up.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Centro has been operating Gillig Low Floor buses since 2008, so they should have some idea by now what they are getting.

 

They have been doing body work on many of the D40LF's and repainting them in the new scheme.  I suspect that the order may end up being as low as 19 buses to replace the C40LF's with the diesels soldiering on for a while.

I could see that. The C40LFs are going to need replacing well before the diesels. I got one yesterday after a while of only riding D40LFs and the difference was pretty bad. Still great buses, but those gas engines are getting tired.

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  • 1 month later...

The Gillig CNG fleet numbers are apparently 1625-1631, since an order of cutaway buses previously received numbers starting at 1600.  This is a break from past practice where the full-size buses usually got the low numbers for that year's series.  A Facebook poster spotted #1628 and another Centro Gillig CNG en route to Syracuse a few days ago, so the full order should be delivered soon.  I've been on the lookout but none have been spotted yet.

 

Also, Orion V #9977 is now sporting an orange LED destination sign.  The flipdot era is over on Centro.

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