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Potential discontinuation of Q48 and M60 to Marine Air Terminal and QM12 route change


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http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/160523_1030_Transit.pdf

 

Q48 & M60 (Pages 134-141)

Service will be rerouted in LGA, with no service at all to Terminal A (LGA Marine Air Terminal). The Q47 will still serve MAT. This will increase operational cost by $100,000 annually. Will be implemented in June.

 

QM12 (Pages 142-145)

In attempts to improve express bus service in Elmhurst, the QM12 will now stop at Hoffman Drive/Woodhaven Blvd in the AM, and will be rerouted to serve Woodhaven Blvd/Booth Street in the PM. Will be cost-neutral. Will be implemented in July.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

 

My thoughts:

 

Q48 & M60:

I really hope that service goes back to normal once the construction is back. They have been cutting back from MAT (or rather have been trying to cut service from MAT as much as possible, first starting with overnights). If they can show that ridership did not take such a major dent, they will try to reduce service even further.

 

QM12:

I really don't buy the improve express bus service in Elmhurst part. I think the MTA is realizing that these two bus routes don't carry many riders, and they will start trying to phase out the QM10, and just leave the QM12. There's always more people there being driven to that stop to catch the QM11. Also, the Woodhaven Blvd stop is equal to or less than 1 mile from any of the other Lefrak stops, and the QM12 runs a block apart on the Rego Park side in the AM. In the PM, the QM10 and QM12 on the 6 Avenue branch outbound each run every 30 minutes, and are only 5 minutes apart from each other (on the 3 Avenue branch, it's ten minutes).

 

I've mentioned how I would restructure the QM10 before, because I believe the route is a total waste as it is, in the AM and PM. You only really have people on the north side of the LIE taking those buses in the AM, and in the PM, not many would be affected since some get off in Rego Park, with the QM12 running like two blocks from it. I see more restructurings for the QM12 in the somewhat near future too. If there goal is to eliminate the QM10 completely, then I could see the MTA running the QM12 down 63 Road instead of the LIE towards Forest Hills, since there are more riders on the QM10 getting off along 63 Road than QM12 riders getting off along the LIE. 

 

Another thing is that it doesn't help that there's not a lot of people on those PM buses. I have yet to see a PM bus with 10 or more riders. There's a specific AM bus which does okay in terms of riders per bus, but there's no corresponding PM bus. The QM12 does slightly better during peak periods, but not by much. The thing that will for sure confirm my suspicion is if the 10:00 AM QM10 bus to Midtown is eliminated next pick (which is when the QM12 route change is suppose to occur).

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Anything that could possibly lead to the eventual extinction of the Q48, I support..... Reroute the 19 over the 48 route b/w Flushing & Astoria Blvd already....

 

As for the M60, I support that time savings with it no longer serving Marine air; it's hardly much of a loss (usage-wise) anyway.... Throughout the years that I've been to that terminal, both the Q47 & the Q48 sees more activity than the M60 does - which says enough.....

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http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/160523_1030_Transit.pdf

 

Q48 & M60 (Pages 134-141)

Service will be rerouted in LGA, with no service at all to Terminal A (LGA Marine Air Terminal). The Q47 will still serve MAT. This will increase operational cost by $100,000 annually. Will be implemented in June.

 

QM12 (Pages 142-145)

In attempts to improve express bus service in Elmhurst, the QM12 will now stop at Hoffman Drive/Woodhaven Blvd in the AM, and will be rerouted to serve Woodhaven Blvd/Booth Street in the PM. Will be cost-neutral. Will be implemented in July.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

 

My thoughts:

 

Q48 & M60:

I really hope that service goes back to normal once the construction is back. They have been cutting back from MAT (or rather have been trying to cut service from MAT as much as possible, first starting with overnights). If they can show that ridership did not take such a major dent, they will try to reduce service even further.

 

QM12:

I really don't buy the improve express bus service in Elmhurst part. I think the MTA is realizing that these two bus routes don't carry many riders, and they will start trying to phase out the QM10, and just leave the QM12. There's always more people there being driven to that stop to catch the QM11. Also, the Woodhaven Blvd stop is equal to or less than 1 mile from any of the other Lefrak stops, and the QM12 runs a block apart on the Rego Park side in the AM. In the PM, the QM10 and QM12 on the 6 Avenue branch outbound each run every 30 minutes, and are only 5 minutes apart from each other (on the 3 Avenue branch, it's ten minutes).

 

I've mentioned how I would restructure the QM10 before, because I believe the route is a total waste as it is, in the AM and PM. You only really have people on the north side of the LIE taking those buses in the AM, and in the PM, not many would be affected since some get off in Rego Park, with the QM12 running like two blocks from it. I see more restructurings for the QM12 in the somewhat near future too. If there goal is to eliminate the QM10 completely, then I could see the MTA running the QM12 down 63 Road instead of the LIE towards Forest Hills, since there are more riders on the QM10 getting off along 63 Road than QM12 riders getting off along the LIE. 

 

Another thing is that it doesn't help that there's not a lot of people on those PM buses. I have yet to see a PM bus with 10 or more riders. There's a specific AM bus which does okay in terms of riders per bus, but there's no corresponding PM bus. The QM12 does slightly better during peak periods, but not by much. The thing that will for sure confirm my suspicion is if the 10:00 AM QM10 bus to Midtown is eliminated next pick (which is when the QM12 route change is suppose to occur).

 

TBH every time I crossed the Airport to transfer between the M60 and Q48 (cause I don't feel safe in the neighborhood) and the trip is so long. What makes it worse is that rarely anyone get on at A and usually its a waste of time. Furthermore, buses go around the bend so fast things that aren't secure go flying. That bend was to only time I've seen an LFSA properly lean like a flexible. 

 

The QM10/QM12 I really can't be commenting on that because I haven't used either of those lines. But I've seen very few people on PM QM10 buses before 

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I just have one question. With the QM12 stopping by QCM, like it's the X17/31, will all 3 routes (QM10/11) be potentially merged into one?

It wouldn't make sense to do that for several reasons:

 

1. It's too time consuming, especially the via 6 Ave loop, which takes 30 minutes alone, plus 30 minutes from Downtown to 34 Street.

 

2. The routing is infeasible in the AM

 

3. The QM11 has the most riders per bus in the AM and PM (not the most ridership, which goes to the QM12). They're not gonna screw over those riders, in order to have buses running for longer than they are currently and having less people per bus. The QM11 is fine, and I'm not worried about the route being modified for whatever reason. The MTA is really only focused on the QM10 and QM12, from what I've been seeing. Remember that they cut midday and reverse peak service (in parts) from about 2009 to 2012, and ridership is still falling. Essentially, the way I see it, only the QM11 and QM12 will remain.

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I feel like the MTA is trying to get rid of the Q48 one day down the line. If they do that the Q19 will probably get rerouted via Roosevelt to make up for the loss service.

How many people use the Q48 from the airport and 23rd Ave to Flushing anyway? The MTA might tell people to use the (7) to the Q70 or Q72 which is what I think many people do already.

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I feel like the MTA is trying to get rid of the Q48 one day down the line. If they do that the Q19 will probably get rerouted via Roosevelt to make up for the loss service.

How many people use the Q48 from the airport and 23rd Ave to Flushing anyway? The MTA might tell people to use the (7) to the Q70 or Q72 which is what I think many people do already.

Q48 has enough ridership outside of the airport to keep it alive 

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Q48 has enough ridership outside of the airport to keep it alive

I only rode on the Q48 once from the Q23's last stop in E. Elmhurst to Flushing and that day the bus had a decent load. The bus even got packed with standees, however that could be a combination between the bus being late and there possibly being something that went on in citi field.
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I just have one question. With the QM12 stopping by QCM, like it's the X17/31, will all 3 routes (QM10/11) be potentially merged into one? 

Unlikely.... They would (try to) get rid of both the QM10 & the QM11 before trying to do a funky merge of the 3 routes....

The irony is, Forest Hills has more political clout, but Rego Park is more vocal about their express service more....

 

IDK, it's like Forest Hills is content with QM12 service....

 

It wouldn't make sense to do that for several reasons:

 

1. It's too time consuming, especially the via 6 Ave loop, which takes 30 minutes alone, plus 30 minutes from Downtown to 34 Street.

 

2. The routing is infeasible in the AM

 

3. The QM11 has the most riders per bus in the AM and PM (not the most ridership, which goes to the QM12). They're not gonna screw over those riders, in order to have buses running for longer than they are currently and having less people per bus. The QM11 is fine, and I'm not worried about the route being modified for whatever reason. The MTA is really only focused on the QM10 and QM12, from what I've been seeing. Remember that they cut midday and reverse peak service (in parts) from about 2009 to 2012, and ridership is still falling. Essentially, the way I see it, only the QM11 and QM12 will remain.

Then you cut the QM11, extend the QM10 to Ascan, and have the QM8 make stops b/w 63rd dr & Ascan av....

(much like what the x17 does in Bay Ridge)

 

The majority... the vast majority of QM11 riders on PM trips are getting off along Queens Blvd before the u-turn @ Ascan.....

 

...How many people use the Q48 from the airport and 23rd Ave to Flushing anyway?

The MTA might tell people to use the (7) to the Q70 or Q72 which is what I think many people do already.

Regularly, very few.... If buses are late though, it gives the illusion that LGA ridership is potent....

 

The pattern of Q48 usage goes like this:

LGA riders > service workers, hotel residents, & E. Elmhurst patrons (basically, the core of the 23rd av usage) >>>>>>> Corona residents

 

If someone were to tell me that the Q48 left flushing w/ 40 people on the bus at some point in the day, I'd tell them that at least 25 of those people will be off that bus by time it hits Astoria Blvd....

 

Q48 has enough ridership outside of the airport to keep it alive 

So the route should remain running b/w East Elmhurst & Flushing? Talk about a waste of resources.....

 

I only rode on the Q48 once from the Q23's last stop in E. Elmhurst to Flushing and that day the bus had a decent load. The bus even got packed with standees, however that could be a combination between the bus being late and there possibly being something that went on in citi field.

I've been on Q48's that were SRO by time it left airport property (basically, the 82nd st stop)..... I specifically remember one ride many moons ago where I was on a 48 that was packed the whole way through.... What also happened b/w Marine Air & Flushing was that another Q48 was right behind us.... And I was pissed at myself for not being patient for like, 30 more seconds @ Central Term. (where I boarded at)...

 

Never again have I seen that many people waiting at almost every stop b/w northern & roosevelt (at least a handful per)....

 

I should ride the Q48 for shits & giggles later on today, since I have to go to Flushing anyway.....

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Unlikely.... They would (try to) get rid of both the QM10 & the QM11 before trying to do a funky merge of the 3 routes....

The irony is, Forest Hills has more political clout, but Rego Park is more vocal about their express service more....

 

IDK, it's like Forest Hills is content with QM12 service....

 

Then you cut the QM11, extend the QM10 to Ascan, and have the QM8 make stops b/w 63rd dr & Ascan av....

(much like what the x17 does in Bay Ridge)

 

The majority... the vast majority of QM11 riders on PM trips are getting off along Queens Blvd before the u-turn @ Ascan.....

 

Well, IDK why the MTA would want to get rid of the QM11. The route has a good amount of riders per bus during both periods of the day. I believe the AM QM11 ridership is more spread out, but yeah I believe your statement about PM ridership, especially since I've seen that myself (and the fact that buses sometimes go NIS after Ascan). The only problem I see with the QM11 is bunching, which happens for different reasons. I already think that the QM8 has enough riders to be picking up any more riders in the AM, but there's more seats available in the PM. If push comes to shove (either because of future financial woes or decreasing ridership), I would just restructure the QM- downtown express bus system as follows:

 

 

:

 

QM7: Bell Blvd/Union Turnpike to Downtown (some trips originate at 188 Street), makes QM11 stops on Queens Blvd

QM8: Glen Oaks or NST to Downtown via Fresh Meadows (no more Union Turnpike stops), stops on LIE at Utopia Parkway, 164 Street, Kissena Blvd, Main Street 

QM11: LeFrak Loop (with reduced frequencies) either in both directions or only towards Manhattan, or outright discontinued

 

The QM7 change would only work if both it and the QM8 are transferred to QV (I know that right now it can't happen, but in the future if it can be changed, since moreso for the QM8, QV is really close to the end terminals of those routes. Alternatively, the QM7 could be transferred to BP, and all trips would originate at 188 Street/73 Avenue.

 

 

 

 

Otherwise though, the QM11 IMO has decent ridership to continue operating, so there shouldn't be any changes in store in the near future.

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didn't the q23 use to go into LGA?

It was only proposed. There is actually a Q23 bus stop at 108 Street/53 Avenue (IIRC) that reads LaGuardia Airport. It was probably going to happen, but never came to fruition. However, I would agree to send the Q23 into LGA, but only Terminals B,C, and D. There are more people going to those areas than Marine Air Terminal.

 

I agree that the Q48 is a waste of resources, since everything except the 108 street portion is covered by another route heading to the subway, while cutting down the commute time (instead of taking the Q48 to 111 Street (7)). The Q19 currently runs non-stop between 108 Street and Main Street/Northern Blvd. While there are riders who definitely use the segment, They have the option to take the Q66 too if they can, or just take 5-7 minutes more to get to their destination. I would certainly agree to have the Q19 run via the Q48 route from 108 Street to Flushing in both directions. Along with the previous proposal of sending Q23 buses to LGA, there shouldn't be much of an inconvenience to riders. For Marine Air Terminal, the travel time may actually be less by taking the Q19 to the Q47 rather than taking the Q48 and looping around the airport (this mostly applies to rush hour periods).

 

Of course, I would also improve the Q19 frequency so that it would run every 12 minutes during both peak periods in entirety, and expanding the span until about 12 or 1 AM.

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Well, IDK why the MTA would want to get rid of the QM11. The route has a good amount of riders per bus during both periods of the day. I believe the AM QM11 ridership is more spread out, but yeah I believe your statement about PM ridership, especially since I've seen that myself (and the fact that buses sometimes go NIS after Ascan). The only problem I see with the QM11 is bunching, which happens for different reasons. I already think that the QM8 has enough riders to be picking up any more riders in the AM, but there's more seats available in the PM. If push comes to shove (either because of future financial woes or decreasing ridership), I would just restructure the QM- downtown express bus system as follows:

 

 

:

 

QM7: Bell Blvd/Union Turnpike to Downtown (some trips originate at 188 Street), makes QM11 stops on Queens Blvd

QM8: Glen Oaks or NST to Downtown via Fresh Meadows (no more Union Turnpike stops), stops on LIE at Utopia Parkway, 164 Street, Kissena Blvd, Main Street 

QM11: LeFrak Loop (with reduced frequencies) either in both directions or only towards Manhattan, or outright discontinued

 

The QM7 change would only work if both it and the QM8 are transferred to QV (I know that right now it can't happen, but in the future if it can be changed, since moreso for the QM8, QV is really close to the end terminals of those routes. Alternatively, the QM7 could be transferred to BP, and all trips would originate at 188 Street/73 Avenue.

 

 

 

 

Otherwise though, the QM11 IMO has decent ridership to continue operating, so there shouldn't be any changes in store in the near future.

....for the same reason they'd want to get rid of any other (deemed or realistic) under-performing route..... They have already f**ked with the Brooklyn expresses (and are still doing so) & the Queens expresses will be next.... Look at the subtle "adjustments" they're already doing to the Union Tpke expresses.....

 

The bunching that happens on the QM11 spurs from the tie-ups it's exposed to whilst on FDR dr.....

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If they get around to building that LGA Airtrain the Q48 would be redundant, at least as far as the airport is concerned.

 

My question to the people who know that area of Queens: Would it be feasible (in a hypothetical situation) to reroute the Q19 between 108 Street to Main Street via the Q48's route and extend the Q23 into LGA?

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No one rarely uses the Marine Air Terminal, especially the M60. Every time when I'm on that bus, only 3 to 4 people get on. I think they should go through with this plan. But how are the buses going to serve the Ditmars Blvd/81 St stop?

The same way it does late at night when buses already skip Marine Air...jump on the GCP for like an exit.

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If they get around to building that LGA Airtrain the Q48 would be redundant, at least as far as the airport is concerned.

 

My question to the people who know that area of Queens: Would it be feasible (in a hypothetical situation) to reroute the Q19 between 108 Street to Main Street via the Q48's route and extend the Q23 into LGA?

Of course it is feasible. The terrain is not so hilly in that area of East Elmhurst/Corona, and the Q19 already goes non-stop to Main Street anyways (from 108 Street). Might as well turn that into some more useful mileage, especially since the Q66 also runs that way already. 

 

With the Q23, at least on weekdays, not every bus has to serve LGA. Every other bus can serve LGA during weekday periods until about 9:00-9:30 PM.

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You are forgetting that anything between 111 thru 82nd St there is no bus route to help out the 7 train with the exception of the north & south bound buses that cross Roosevelt Ave. The Q48 can be discontinued from the airport since LGA has a few less passengers than JFK, It can ultilize Roosevelt until at least 103rd somewhere.


As for QM12, That route, I have seen a steady decline of service since it went from LGA to CP. Last December, I was looking at buses on the QM12 and I was like "Who are you?" Back then, the QM12 was the most popular route until QM24 was rerouted to 6th Ave in 2010, and it took massive customers away from the QM12.

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