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Runs on the b12


klsnyc

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I've been noticing that a lot of the runs on the b12 are runs from other routes like the b25,q24,q56 etc..I just wanna know how many actual runs does the b12 have of its own

How do you come to that conclusion?

 

Because the B12's I see after having made its last dropoff @ Alabama are either pull-ins (too many this do this during the PM rush, which absolutely pisses me off about the route - it's why you'll see an accumulation of at least 75 people around 4-6pm at the first WB stop), or turnaround to do a Lefferts Gardens trip.....

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  • 3 weeks later...

i think the b12 should return bacvk to terminate at cypress hills i mean this route is an historic route and cypress hills was always its eastern terminus

3 reasons why the B12 cannot return back to Cypress Hills.

 

1) Liberty Avenue is too commercialized and streets are narrow.

2). You have (A)(C) service along Pitkin Avene + B14 that's in the immediate area along with (J) service direct to Cypress Hills.

3) The route is extremely too long from Ocean/Parkside.

 

*Bad enough, B12 can't do right from Flatbush to East New York. Why extend back to Cypress Hills and Grant Avenue (A) train.

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The B/12 was extended to what is referred to as Woodhaven (Sheridan Avenue) to replace the Bergen Street Car Line from Pennsylvania Avenue & Liberty Avenue to Sheridan Avenue around 1947. The Q/24 (Formerly B/22) Atlantic Avenue covers  almost the same area and runs through the Broadway Junction area where.a transfer could be made to the B/12. The reference to Cypress Hills is not quite accurate as the technical definition of the area is north of Fulton Street around the area of Crescent Street. The area that the B/12 used to run is considered as East New York..

 

There is a very important issue here and that is why are there problems with this route since it seems to be of reasonable length and should not have the large number of delays that is being reported. The problem could be (and this may be speculation on my part) is the split runs where the first half is on one route and the second half on another route. I, for one, believe that having a driver work two different routes is not practical for a driver to be late on his first half route impacts on the second half route in a negative way in the form of delays in getting into service. When a driver works both halves on one route, the delays are minimized as drivers are able to be put back into place.   

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i think the b12 should return back to terminate at cypress hills i mean this route is an historic route and cypress hills was always its eastern terminus

Historical-ness,means nothing if the route wasn't being used by anywhere near for as many people that live in East New York (a neighborhood that has very low political clout btw).... As was already mentioned, there are other modes of transportation that better suits those same patrons' needs anyway....

 

The few people that utilized the B12 to/from City Line, were of those that lived near that area - I'm talking blocks here, of the commercialized area where it terminated.... I have seen way too many a bus that literally would carry air; after every single person left on the bus beforehand from the west, got off at Alabama av (J) itself - with nobody waiting for the (then) eastbound bus towards Sheridan..... Meaning, zero turnover....

 

What I find to be a travesty was that the B12 wasn't cutback to Alabama av sooner....

 

The B/12 was extended to what is referred to as Woodhaven (Sheridan Avenue) to replace the Bergen Street Car Line from Pennsylvania Avenue & Liberty Avenue to Sheridan Avenue around 1947. The Q/24 (Formerly B/22) Atlantic Avenue covers  almost the same area and runs through the Broadway Junction area where.a transfer could be made to the B/12. The reference to Cypress Hills is not quite accurate as the technical definition of the area is north of Fulton Street around the area of Crescent Street. The area that the B/12 used to run is considered as East New York..

Lol.... Don't know of anyone that refers to Sheridan av as being in Woodhaven; that would be like referring to the Linden (blvd) multiplex cinemas as being in Lindenwood, which you simply won't hear.... Woodhaven (like Lindenwood) is in Queens, and has an entirely different feel than the area that the B12 used to terminate at on that end....

 

Where I agree, is that Liberty/Sheridan (old B12 terminal) isn't in Cypress Hills either (regardless of what the caption/smaller print on the bus stop poles say)... Cypress Hills is basically anything north of Atlantic, west of Eldert, south of the JRP, and east of Pennsylvania....

 

Yes, Liberty/Sheridan is considered as being in East New York - but guess what, so is Cypress Hills!

See, Cypress Hills, Spring Creek, New Lots are all subsections of East New York....

Someone might pick up on the fact that one more subsection is missing there - and I'm doing it on purpose to make my point....

 

Liberty/Sheridan lies in the subsection of East New York called City Line (which is the area generally binding Euclid, Atlantic (technically speaking, south of the RR), Conduit, and, well, the Brooklyn/Queens border).... The distinction b/w Cypress Hills & City Line are quite stark - for instance, Cypress Hills is predominantly Hispanic, whereas City Line is an absolute melting point of ethnicities....

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now i see the reason...but it isnt that long from Lefferts Gardens to City Line i think the B8 is far longer but is the traffic issue that makes brooklyn buses long the trips i remeber taking the 5:10pm B8 towards Bay Ridge and it reached 92 street Fort Hamilton at 6:53pm...nearly the 2 hour transfer limit but luckily the s53 comes frequently

 

but i guess the history can be revive if the ridership is low...lets keep it as it is 

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now i see the reason...but it isnt that long from Lefferts Gardens to City Line i think the B8 is far longer but is the traffic issue that makes brooklyn buses long the trips i remeber taking the 5:10pm B8 towards Bay Ridge and it reached 92 street Fort Hamilton at 6:53pm...nearly the 2 hour transfer limit but luckily the s53 comes frequently

 

but i guess the history can be revive if the ridership is low...lets keep it as it is 

I'll agree with you on one thing - The point-to-point distance of the old B12 route wasn't really the problem....

 

My gripe with the old B12 is & has always been the morbidly low (not even relatively low... morbidly low; it was that bad!) usage of the route east of Alabama av (J) & the sheer amount of trips that even ran the full distance, exacerbating the bunching that went on overall with the route.... Buses would snail its way along Liberty (even before hitting Crescent from the west) to try to garner ridership & that tactic still didn't work... The crawling was more the issue, over the simple fact that it ran b/w Lefferts Gdns & City Line.....

 

Had Liberty av had Sutter av level ridership, then I'd probably attribute distance as part of the problem......

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B/35 via Church is correct in the designation of the Cypress Hills as being North of Atlantic Avenue as it is almost 60 years that I lived in East New York which was south of Atlantic Avenue. The only vague reference in my mind is that we referred to it as "Highland Park".

I was looking for a picture of the Fulton Street Elevated that used the term "City Line" when it terminated at Grant Avenue. The name seemed to fall out of favor when it was extended to Lefferts Avenue and after 1898 when Brooklyn and Queens became part of New York City. I did find a picture of the Bergen Street car with the Woodhaven sign in "Brooklyn Trolley Cars from the BRT to the B&QT" by James Clifford Greller (Orange New Jersey, Explorer Press,n.d.) p,58.

Sometimes I forget that neighborhood designations are fluid in that they are listed in some books and reports but not in others. When I read the Brian Merlis books on Brooklyn as well as other histories of my home borough, I find that what one refers as one community may be referred to as a different  community in another book. When i lived in East New York, our post office was "New Lots" and I think that it was on Glenmore Avenue around Euclid Avenue which was nowhere near New Lots. 

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I've been noticing that a lot of the runs on the b12 are runs from other routes like the b25,q24,q56 etc..I just wanna know how many actual runs does the b12 have of its own

 

 

How do you come to that conclusion?

 

Because the B12's I see after having made its last dropoff @ Alabama are either pull-ins (too many this do this during the PM rush, which absolutely pisses me off about the route - it's why you'll see an accumulation of at least 75 people around 4-6pm at the first WB stop), or turnaround to do a Lefferts Gardens trip.....

 

He's actually come to the right conclusion here B35. 92% of the 25 runs on the B12 are interlines. Some of the buses you see ending at Alabama, are heading back to the depot to swing but the majority are deadheading off to other routes. A total of 3 runs are B12 only. The remaining 22 runs start or end as the B15(4), B25(9), B82(1), B83(3), Q24(3), Q56(2).

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He's actually come to the right conclusion here B35. 92% of the 25 runs on the B12 are interlines. Some of the buses you see ending at Alabama, are heading back to the depot to swing but the majority are deadheading off to other routes. A total of 3 runs are B12 only. The remaining 22 runs start or end as the B15(4), B25(9), B82(1), B83(3), Q24(3), Q56(2).

I phrased that question the way I did to the guy, b/c to be quite frank, as a passenger waiting for the next WB B12 out, I personally can't tell that buses are doing all this DH-ing..... Especially the runs that are beginning as other routes & ending as B12's.... Regardless, thanks for the information here.

 

I would ask a follow-up question (well 2 actually) to the info you just provided, but it's probably confidential info, so I'll just skip it......

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Those are some long dead heads

 

Actually they aren't long deadheads at all. The longest deadhead is the B25 run that ends downtown, then deadheads to Jamaica to start one of the Q routes. All those other routes start/end in Crown Heights, East New York or Bed-Stuy.

 

I phrased that question the way I did to the guy, b/c to be quite frank, as a passenger waiting for the next WB B12 out, I personally can't tell that buses are doing all this DH-ing..... Especially the runs that are beginning as other routes & ending as B12's.... Regardless, thanks for the information here.

 

I would ask a follow-up question (well 2 actually) to the info you just provided, but it's probably confidential info, so I'll just skip it......

 

What are the 2 questions? If I can answer, I'm more than willing.

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Actually they aren't long deadheads at all. The longest deadhead is the B25 run that ends downtown, then deadheads to Jamaica to start one of the Q routes. All those other routes start/end in East New York or Bed-Stuy

 

 

 

So, when the B7 was at ENY, did it interline with the B12?

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