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42nd Street Shuttle Upgrades part of the Financial Plan


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Proposed Program of Projects Federal Fiscal Year 2017

 

Page 12

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/hearings/160823/Description-of-Projects-Booklet.pdf

Project Name ... ADA: Times Square, Phase 3 - Shuttle

This project will provide Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) accessibility at Times Square Station on the 42nd Street Shuttle Line. To be coordinated with rehabilitation project at station.

Summary ...
This project will modify and extend the platform to comply with Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) requirements. The station will be reconfigured from three-track to two-track shuttle operations for six-car trains and addition of second means of egress at east end of platform to mitigate congestion and provide a connection to the 6th Avenue Line. Project also includes modifications at Grand Central-42 St to accommodate the new shuttle operation. Additional station reconfiguration options will be explored during design. To be coordinated with reconstruction project at station.

The budget for this project is $235.41 million. This request is for $235.41 million.

 

Page 19
Project Name ... Station Reconstruction: Times Square, Phase 3 - Shuttle

This project will rehabilitate Times Square Station on the 42nd Street Shuttle Line to address deficient platform components and mitigate congestion. This is the final phase of the reconstruction of the Times Square Station complex.

Summary ... 
This project will rehabilitate Times Square Station on the 42nd Street Shuttle Line, inclusive of congestion mitigation measures. Work will include installation of a wider stairway from the shuttle mezzanine to street level, installation of new Control Area on the shuttle mezzanine/bottom of stairway and removal of about 21 columns. Project will be coordinated with ADA project at station, which will include replacement of deficient components and reconfiguration of station to mitigate congestion.

The budget for this project is $28.93 million. This request is for $28.93 million.

 

Sadly, this work will get rid of the connection to the Seventh Avenue Line.

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Wait so they're completely taking out track 4? They can't do that, that's the only connection they have remaining that connects the shuttle to 7th Avenue.

You really think they haven't thought of a way to keep that? Frankly, with the extensions to the east, you could possibly have the remaining two tracks merge before meeting with the 7th Avenue Line.

 

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You really think they haven't thought of a way to keep that? Frankly, with the extensions to the east, you could possibly have the remaining two tracks merge before meeting with the 7th Avenue Line.

 

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I have heard from other places that the connection would be completely removed, but plans change.

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I find the six car train thing interesting. You have the opportunity to standardize every train in the IRT to five car sets and now you're extending them to six?

 

I also wonder if ( if indeed they meant five cars sets not six) there is a swap with the (6) where the singles from the shuttle get coupled into five car units for the (6) service and say 3 of the R142A trains get split up into six five car trains for the Shuttle.

 

 

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Wait so they're completely taking out track 4? They can't do that, that's the only connection they have remaining that connects the shuttle to 7th Avenue.

 

...if they take out track 4, then there is no need for a connection from the shuttle to the 7th avenue line...

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So finally the passage to 6th Ave. (already built in the sidewalk vault, promised to tenants of the 1 Bryant Park building, 6th Ave. end visible next to exit). So I guess this was what they were holding that up for.

(Wish that report had a diagram of what they are doing).

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You really think they haven't thought of a way to keep that? Frankly, with the extensions to the east, you could possibly have the remaining two tracks merge before meeting with the 7th Avenue Line.

 

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If the plan is the same as the one on page 67 of Dougherty's track book, Track 4 would be completely removed.

 

 

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Right now, it takes 2 minutes to travel west and 1 minute to head east, with 2 minutes to turn around at TSQ and 5 minutes to turn around at GCT. So 2 train sets are used for 5 minute headways, and 3 train sets for 18 tph during the peak. I'd imagine that the tracks and platforms will be straightened, such that 2 train sets can provide 3 minute headways, which can result in an increase from 54 cph to 120 cph. The real benefit, of course, is to provide an easier connection to GCT for 6 Ave passengers.

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Right now, it takes 2 minutes to travel west and 1 minute to head east, with 2 minutes to turn around at TSQ and 5 minutes to turn around at GCT. So 2 train sets are used for 5 minute headways, and 3 train sets for 18 tph during the peak. I'd imagine that the tracks and platforms will be straightened, such that 2 train sets can provide 3 minute headways, which can result in an increase from 54 cph to 120 cph. The real benefit, of course, is to provide an easier connection to GCT for 6 Ave passengers.

How is the connection made with the 6th Ave line? Via the (7) walkway and 5th Ave station?

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It's about time. The current layout makes catching a shuttle a dice roll depending on where you enter at Times Square. Any train on track 4 is pretty much a lost cause for me if I'm coming from any entrance besides the 43rd Street one. Vice-versa for a train on track 1 or 3. Seeing this station finally streamlined is a welcome change.

 

Based on what I've read, the plan for Times Square is have a layout similar to Grand Central with an extra wide platform for tracks 1 and 3. Said platform will be shifted east to facilitate both easier access to the shuttle trains and provide external access to 6th Avenue. While it's too early to tell, I do not believe there will be an in-system transfer between the Times Square shuttle platform and the lines at 42 St-Bryant Park/5 Avenue.

 

Wait so they're completely taking out track 4? They can't do that, that's the only connection they have remaining that connects the shuttle to 7th Avenue.

Track 4 is the most problematic at the moment. The length of the platform and the severe curve prohibit any kind of useful renovations without abandoning that track.

 

I have heard from other places that the connection would be completely removed, but plans change.

These are still the most likely plans.

 

I find the six car train thing interesting. You have the opportunity to standardize every train in the IRT to five car sets and now you're extending them to six?

I also wonder if ( if indeed they meant five cars sets not six) there is a swap with the (6) where the singles from the shuttle get coupled into five car units for the (6) service and say 3 of the R142A trains get split up into six five car trains for the Shuttle.


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I'd imagine the new setup would have the capacity for six-car trains and will likely run said number of trains. Of course, unless the MTA decides to order specialized sets to replace the 62s and 62As in the 2020s or so, the shuttle will be reduced to five-car sets at the end of the next decade.

 

I find this really interesting actually. Six car shuttle trains would actually help tbh. I'm looking forward to seeing this actually.

As long as it allows the trains to pull in a bit closer to the stairs at Grand Central, I'll be happy. I can't stand having to run halfway down the platform because of the placement of the stop.

 

How is the connection made with the 6th Ave line? Via the (7) walkway and 5th Ave station?

I don't think so. I'd imagine it would be separate from the Bryant Park station, though it might offer an out-of-system transfer between the two complexes.

 

Knickerbocker door? Wut?

On track 4 near the 43rd Street exit, there is a sealed entrance to the old Knickerbocker Hotel. I doubt there will be anything done that will affect it to be honest.

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It's about time. The current layout makes catching a shuttle a dice roll depending on where you enter at Times Square. Any train on track 4 is pretty much a lost cause for me if I'm coming from any entrance besides the 43rd Street one. Vice-versa for a train on track 1 or 3. Seeing this station finally streamlined is a welcome change.

 

Based on what I've read, the plan for Times Square is have a layout similar to Grand Central with an extra wide platform for tracks 1 and 3. Said platform will be shifted east to facilitate both easier access to the shuttle trains and provide external access to 6th Avenue. While it's too early to tell, I do not believe there will be an in-system transfer between the Times Square shuttle platform and the lines at 42 St-Bryant Park/5 Avenue.

 

Track 4 is the most problematic at the moment. The length of the platform and the severe curve prohibit any kind of useful renovations without abandoning that track.

 

These are still the most likely plans.

 

I'd imagine the new setup would have the capacity for six-car trains and will likely run said number of trains. Of course, unless the MTA decides to order specialized sets to replace the 62s and 62As in the 2020s or so, the shuttle will be reduced to five-car sets at the end of the next decade.

 

As long as it allows the trains to pull in a bit closer to the stairs at Grand Central, I'll be happy. I can't stand having to run halfway down the platform because of the placement of the stop.

 

I don't think so. I'd imagine it would be separate from the Bryant Park station, though it might offer an out-of-system transfer between the two complexes.

 

On track 4 near the 43rd Street exit, there is a sealed entrance to the old Knickerbocker Hotel. I doubt there will be anything done that will affect it to be honest.

Interesting.. That's almost 1,200 feet from 6th to just past Madison can't wait to see their plan for that.

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I can tolerate the (S) on the Grand Central side, but the Times Square side is annoying as hell... Too many tracks, and too much running involved to get the train on the track furthest away from the (1)(2)(3) transfer.  If it's cold enough I usually just walk from Times Square.  The amount of up and down, etc. to get to Grand Central really isn't worth it.

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Based on what I've read, the plan for Times Square is have a layout similar to Grand Central with an extra wide platform for tracks 1 and 3. Said platform will be shifted east to facilitate both easier access to the shuttle trains and provide external access to 6th Avenue. While it's too early to tell, I do not believe there will be an in-system transfer between the Times Square shuttle platform and the lines at 42 St-Bryant Park/5 Avenue.

 

Track 4 is the most problematic at the moment. The length of the platform and the severe curve prohibit any kind of useful renovations without abandoning that track.

 

I don't think so. I'd imagine it would be separate from the Bryant Park station, though it might offer an out-of-system transfer between the two complexes.

 

On track 4 near the 43rd Street exit, there is a sealed entrance to the old Knickerbocker Hotel. I doubt there will be anything done that will affect it to be honest.

Track 4 is the far side platform (former uptown local), isn't it? (On the IRT, it's always numerical, west[downtown local] to east.

The Knickerbocker door is on track 1, and the hotel building on the SW corner of 42nd. The northeast corner, and 43rd St. also had an exit, which was sealed up, and the station facility rooms built there. The buildings it led to were demolished and replaced with the current CondeNast building, and the NASDAQ corner om 43rd.

 

This is likely where the new passage will connect. As I've always been saying, it is already built (in the sidewalk vault of the new Durst/BankofAmerica or 1 Bryant Park building, whose tenants were promised indoor connections to both the 6th Ave. and TSQ complexes). The mid-block arcade has a planned entrance covered with an extended wooden "bench" behind the glass separating it from 42nd street. The other end of the passage on 6th Ave.is visible through the iron fencing at the bottom of the steps and elevator. It's partly boarded up, and it will lead to the fare controlled side, which is now sealed by a door.

 

Here's what I'm talking about:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/56/f9/d8/56f9d88ca8f379ddef0895b6ffe4c468.jpg

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Track 4 is the far side platform (former uptown local), isn't it? (On the IRT, it's always numerical, west[downtown local] to east.

The Knickerbocker door is on track 1, and the hotel building on the SW corner of 42nd. The northeast corner, and 43rd St. also had an exit, which was sealed up, and the station facility rooms built there.

The sealed exit near the 43rd Street subway entrance/exit is probably what I saw then. By the way, good eye on the possible placement of the new passageway.

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