Fix & Fortify - 14th Street (L Train) Tunnels Closure

[Wallyhorse]

6 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I would run any trains from Broadway-Brooklyn to Canarsie as ( T ) and have those be Canarsie to 179th St-Jamaica via the 53rd St Tunnel and Queens Blvd/Hillside Local.

I've probably mentioned this already

...which they won't do anyway because the only trains that have a T rollsign are the R32s and they don't want R32s on the  during the shutdown.

But the NTTs they would be more likely to use can be programmed to add that if need be I would think.  

[T to Dyre Avenue]

18 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

But the NTTs they would be more likely to use can be programmed to add that if need be I would think.  

That wasn’t the point I was trying to make. I’m well aware they can program a T line in the NTTs’ trip computers. They did just that with the current  route, rather than use the -to-Metropolitan program that already existed, so that the line’s riders would be more likely to accept the new service. In fact, I seem to recall seeing a -to-Canarsie destination sign on a train of R160s, so there’s that possibility as well.

[KK 6 Ave Local]

To lighten the mood (this is about the  -  situation): https://imgflip.com/i/2a5612

Edited May 12, 2018 by KK 6 Ave Local

[N6 Limited]

If they only closed one tunnel at at time, couldn't CBTC maximize single track throughput?  

[officiallyliam]

20 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

If they only closed one tunnel at at time, couldn't CBTC maximize single track throughput?  

Not really. The is crowded today with 22 tph between Brooklyn and Manhattan; single-tracking, even with CBTC, wouldn't be able to handle anywhere near that. You'd have to have one track in operation from Bedford all the way to Union Square, and both those crossovers are very slow moves. Reinstating the crossover east of 1st Avenue would make things a bit more manageable, but still, you're not getting near enough capacity and you're elongating the length of the project.

[CenSin]

1 minute ago, officiallyliam said:

Reinstating the crossover east of 1st Avenue would make things a bit more manageable, but still, you're not getting near enough capacity and you're elongating the length of the project.

I see we're forgetting that the point of the closure is also to fix the tunnel under the river. Using both tracks and switching to single-tracking in Manhattan thoroughly defeats the purpose.

[officiallyliam]

1 minute ago, CenSin said:

I see we're forgetting that the point of the closure is also to fix the tunnel under the river. Using both tracks and switching to single-tracking in Manhattan thoroughly defeats the purpose.

I'm not in any way advocating for single-tracking. It would, unquestionably, be a disaster.

[N6 Limited]

14 hours ago, CenSin said:

I see we're forgetting that the point of the closure is also to fix the tunnel under the river. Using both tracks and switching to single-tracking in Manhattan thoroughly defeats the purpose.

The idea was to use both tracks on both sides and single track under the river.

[kosciusko]

11 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

The idea was to use both tracks on both sides and single track under the river.

Yes but unless they installed a new switch the single tracking would have to extend to Union Square in Manhattan

Edited May 15, 2018 by kosciusko

[BreeddekalbL]

Tonight is the meeting in williamsburg, want to bet that those hipsters try and scream that they demand that the MTA keep 1 tunnel open?

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they did. Even after all the explanations why it’s way more effective to close both tunnels at the same time. 

[Around the Horn]

It's actually not the hipsters crying for one tunnel to be open...

[N6 Limited]

1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

It's actually not the hipsters crying for one tunnel to be open...

Business owners and landlords?

[RR503]

14 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Business owners and landlords?

Urban suburbanites who don't want their neighborhood charecter disrupted by the so-carefully-excluded proletariat.

See 13th St, which is suing the MTA over their routing of bike/car traffic through their 'pristine' blocks. 

[WestFarms36]

2 hours ago, RR503 said:

Urban suburbanites who don't want their neighborhood charecter disrupted by the so-carefully-excluded proletariat.

See 13th St, which is suing the MTA over their routing of bike/car traffic through their 'pristine' blocks. 

Those a**holes should be the last ones speaking. I am already up to the top with these mortal idiots who think that the world revolves around them, unfortunately it doesn't. Complaining about their "Pristine" Street, while it is a public street Maintained with OUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS, something that none of them even care to educate themselves about. After all its a public street and it was built to carry traffic, not to be used as their f*cking driveway. Seriously, even relocating a light pole is that disturbing to them. I find nothing wrong with bike lanes, and also whats wrong with cars? Its a street, its made for vehicles, if it bothers them that much, why not turn the damn street into a damn 12 Block Plaza and keep it to themselves!

[Wallyhorse]

27 minutes ago, WestFarms36 said:

Those a**holes should be the last ones speaking. I am already up to the top with these mortal idiots who think that the world revolves around them, unfortunately it doesn't. Complaining about their "Pristine" Street, while it is a public street Maintained with OUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS, something that none of them even care to educate themselves about. After all its a public street and it was built to carry traffic, not to be used as their f*cking driveway. Seriously, even relocating a light pole is that disturbing to them. I find nothing wrong with bike lanes, and also whats wrong with cars? Its a street, its made for vehicles, if it bothers them that much, why not turn the damn street into a damn 12 Block Plaza and keep it to themselves!

What they probably really want is the to operate between 1st & 8th Avenues (that I have many times noted how I would handle) so those buses terminate at 1st and 3rd Avenues and everyone uses the trains after that in Manhattan.

[WestFarms36]

10 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

What they probably really want is the to operate between 1st & 8th Avenues (that I have many times noted how I would handle) so those buses terminate at 1st and 3rd Avenues and everyone uses the trains after that in Manhattan.

You gotta be f**king kidding me. They are complaining about keeping bike traffic off their street while 13th street alone Between Avenue A - 8th Avenue has 162 f**king Bike docks less than a block apart. You could give a bike to the entire neighborhood with 162 bikes. They should not be complaining when they have a surplus of bikes and then contradicting what they've been asking for.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

17 hours ago, RR503 said:

Urban suburbanites who don't want their neighborhood charecter disrupted by the so-carefully-excluded proletariat.

See 13th St, which is suing the MTA over their routing of bike/car traffic through their 'pristine' blocks. 

Well yes, they definitely are being a bunch of pricks about all this, but since this community meeting is in Williamsburg, I don’t think we’ll be seeing much of the 13th St crowd hopping on the  train with “the proletariat” to speak out at this meeting. 

14 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

What they probably really want is the to operate between 1st & 8th Avenues (that I have many times noted how I would handle) so those buses terminate at 1st and 3rd Avenues and everyone uses the trains after that in Manhattan.

Even if they could feasibly run  trains between 1st and 8th Avenues, they’d have to run on significantly reduced frequency, which would still require additional buses to accommodate riders who would inevitably be displaced from the subway due to the longer headways.

[Wallyhorse]

24 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Well yes, they definitely are being a bunch of pricks about all this, but since this community meeting is in Williamsburg, I don’t think we’ll be seeing much of the 13th St crowd hopping on the  train with “the proletariat” to speak out at this meeting. 

Even if they could feasibly run  trains between 1st and 8th Avenues, they’d have to run on significantly reduced frequency, which would still require additional buses to accommodate riders who would inevitably be displaced from the subway due to the longer headways.

My bad, thought this was the 13th Street group.

You probably could have gotten away with such between 1st and 8th Avenues if it were possible by running four sets of trains (though you'd need a crossover between 1st and 3rd Avenue for that many sets as I would have used a maximum of three sets and single-tracked between 1st and Union Square).  

 

[kosciusko]

3 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

My bad, thought this was the 13th Street group.

You probably could have gotten away with such between 1st and 8th Avenues if it were possible by running four sets of trains (though you'd need a crossover between 1st and 3rd Avenue for that many sets as I would have used a maximum of three sets and single-tracked between 1st and Union Square).  

 

Ok sure, but there's still the problem of no yard access.

[Union Tpke]

Here is where the buses will go.....

Screen Shot 2018-05-18 at 6.52.16 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2018-05-18 at 6.52.22 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2018-05-18 at 6.52.31 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2018-05-18 at 6.52.37 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

[Lance]

City Council to Introduce Bills to Cope with Shutdown

Erin Duncan, NY Daily News

The city would have to open up information centers and create a position for someone to hear gripes about its handling of the L train shutdown under legislation being introduced in the City Council.

Council Speaker Corey Johnson is introducing the bills as Brooklyn and Manhattan brace for the 15-month shutdown, which will begin next April and is expected to cause commuter chaos.

Under one bill, the city would have to open at least two information centers, one in Manhattan and one in Brooklyn, to distribute information about the progress of the subway project and transportation alternatives.

The MTA is shutting down service on the line between Manhattan and Brooklyn, used by 225,000 riders every day, to repair the Canarsie Tunnel, which was damaged by Hurricane Sandy.

Advocates have said the city’s plan is not up to the task of handling the disruption, since it will create bus-only lanes just for rush hours instead of around the clock.

Under another bill, an ombudsman job would be created in the Department of Transportation to receive comments and investigate complaints from the public about major transportation projects like the L shutdown.

“New Yorkers from Manhattan to Brooklyn and beyond are getting more and more anxious about the coming L-pocalypse every day, and I am right there with them,” said Johnson (D-Manhattan). “The L train shutdown will be a massive shock to the city’s system and I am worried that the city is not ready for the levels of disruption this will cause.”

The Council will also hold a hearing on the shutdown project in Chelsea next week.

“New Yorkers deserve a thoughtful, robust alternate service plan during the shutdown of the L train that will take into account their different travel needs, offer similar routes with buses, encourage new transportation options and get them to their destination on time,” said Councilman Ydanis Rodriguez (D-Manhattan), chairman of the Transportation Committee. “We hope the agencies involved will bring answers directly to one of the neighborhoods that will be most affected.”

[GojiMet86]

Information centers?

What a waste.

 

Second-most retarded thing I've heard this year.

[LGA Link N Train]

The plan has been finalized, IDK why they're still complaining

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, GojiMet86 said:

Information centers?

What a waste.

 

Second-most retarded thing I've heard this year.

 

21 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

The plan has been finalized, IDK why they're still complaining

The City has always said that it would be willing to tweak the plan in place if it isn't working, and given the amount of people affected by the plan, it would be quite stupid to have a plan in place and not be able to make changes to it if it isn't working.  Part of the reason they're doing this is because there's already talk of people not using these options, which the City wants these people to do. If they don't use the plan and have tons of shuttles running from various apartment buildings in Williamsburg (which is what many buildings are now considering since so many people don't think this plan will work), you're going to have a ton of congestion, far more than what is being predicted.  This can have serious economic repercussions for the City, so it's in their interest to make this plan work and make changes to it where needed. This plan will not only affect Williamsburg residents. It affects any New Yorker who needs to travel in the affected areas, and that's the reality of it.  

This reminds me of the chaos that occurred when work was being done by LaGuardia and there was so much congestion that people were getting out of the cabs they were in and walking with their luggage on the expressways to reach the airport.  After the City and State had egg on their face, they made various transportation changes to move those people like making the Q70 free for periods of time.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8