New Fare Payment System

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You took the words out of my mouth. Seriously, save 200 and take the bus.

 

If I were the MTA, I'd take a page from CDTA and a few other agencies and include mobile fare payment technology. Most phones are NFC-enabled nowadays, which just happens to be the same technology most of the modern farecards use. Let people tap their phones on the farebox/turnstile. Reduces the number of cards you need to make and machines you need to install. Not like most users don't have a smartphone.

Take a bus to where?  Walking to Metro-North or taking a short bus ride to it saves me from having to make a gazillion transfers.  You're up in Albany, so you have no idea what my commute consists of given that I travel all over the place.  Taking a bus to a subway may mean me having to backtrack, so Metro-North saves me a considerable amount of time.  

 

It's gonna be obsolete in like, 5 years or so. So why bother?

 

Don't complain about inconvenience and in the same sentence, say you give them over 200 for a monthly when you can take the bus to the subway like errrrbody else and save the bread for other things.

First off they had MVM machines WITH the Metro-North machines, so why take them away in the first place?  They were well used and served the needs of THOUSANDS of commuters.  Second, you don't know what my commute consists of so you really don't have any standing when it comes to "advising" me on how I should commute.  Taking the bus to the subway may work for your commute, but that doesn't mean it works for everyone else.  

[cl94]

Take a bus to where?  Walking to Metro-North or taking a short bus ride to it saves me from having to make a gazillion transfers.  You're up in Albany, so you have no idea what my commute consists of given that I travel all over the place.  Taking a bus to a subway may mean me having to backtrack, so Metro-North saves me a considerable amount of time.  

 

Which has a much worse transit system than any part of the NYC metro area. I know what it's like to get around without a car because I didn't have one the first couple months I was here. Buying anything that couldn't be obtained at a small supermarket meant several hours and bus transfers. I was basing my assessment on the neighborhood you said you are in. I don't think any of us know what your commute would consist of being as the standard commute in the NYC area is into Manhattan, which could be done with one transfer.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Which has a much worse transit system than any part of the NYC metro area. I know what it's like to get around without a car because I didn't have one the first couple months I was here. Buying anything that couldn't be obtained at a small supermarket meant several hours and bus transfers. I was basing my assessment on the neighborhood you said you are in. I don't think any of us know what your commute would consist of being as the standard commute in the NYC area is into Manhattan, which could be done with one transfer.

There is no subway in neighborhood and while it may seem easy to just take a local bus to the subway, local bus service in my area is pretty poor, not to mention that the limits you to the West Side of Manhattan, which means numerous transfers to get to the East Side.  Given how much more reliable Metro-North is and where I need to go, it makes sense to use it.  I can walk to the station and have no transfers to contend with, not to mention that it is extremely punctual.  I've put up with the subway and local buses to know how unreliable and slow they can be, and since I value the time I have, I'd rather spend the extra money. It's an investment well spent.

[Jdog14]

It would be nice to have to more MVMs all over the neighborhoods without subway access. Maybe now wouldn't have been the smartest time to add them, but moreso when the metrocard first came out. If you have somewhere to be the next morning and you don't have a metrocard and you don't live close by to a train station you're pretty much assed out (my current situation). That's not even considering if you fill up your metrocard and the farebox deducts more than one fare, leaving you without enough money to get to you destination the next day.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It would be nice to have to more MVMs all over the neighborhoods without subway access. Maybe now wouldn't have been the smartest time to add them, but moreso when the metrocard first came out. If you have somewhere to be the next morning and you don't have a metrocard and you don't live close by to a train station you're pretty much assed out (my current situation). That's not even considering if you fill up your metrocard and the farebox deducts more than one fare, leaving you without enough money to get to you destination the next day.

In my neighborhood the closest subway is a good 20 minute walk, and 242nd street often times has maybe one machine working out of the three.  There's only one store that sells Metrocards in the entire neighborhood, and they are usually sold out, so I just about always have to make sure that I get a Metrocard in the city.  Heaven's forbid I decide to stay in Riverdale and not buy one in advance...  That's the other reason I take Metro-North.  I can purchase a ticket on my phone and just re-fill when I get into the city.

[bobtehpanda]

All I have to say is until the Metrocard is obsolete, the should provide MVM in more areas.  Here's a perfect example.  This morning I needed a Monthly Metro-North pass, as well as a Metrocard.  No Metro-North station offers Metrocards. They used to offer them in Grand Central, but they took those machines away, so you have to now walk to a subway, then go to a Metro-North station and get a pass.  Beyond ridiculous and extremely inconvenient, especially considering that I gave them $281.00 of my money ($201.00 for the monthly from Riverdale to GCT, and then I put $80.00 on a Metrocard).

 

Can't you buy monthlies on eTix?  I personally like not having to fuss with additional things on my wallet, nor do I enjoy doing a sprint down the platform to where the machines are and then sprinting back to where the train actually stops.

[Jdog14]

In my neighborhood the closest subway is a good 20 minute walk, and 242nd street often times has maybe one machine working out of the three.  There's only one store that sells Metrocards in the entire neighborhood, and they are usually sold out, so I just about always have to make sure that I get a Metrocard in the city.  Heaven's forbid I decide to stay in Riverdale and not buy one in advance...  That's the other reason I take Metro-North.  I can purchase a ticket on my phone and just re-fill when I get into the city.

 

I can relate to this post in many ways. It is a absolute pain in the ass. I feel for the people that use Bee line, NICE, and out in Staten Island.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Can't you buy monthlies on eTix?  I personally like not having to fuss with additional things on my wallet, nor do I enjoy doing a sprint down the platform to where the machines are and then sprinting back to where the train actually stops.

You likely can but I don't feel comfortable buying my monthly ticket on my phone.  If I can't access the ticket for some reason or my phone is dead, I'm screwed.  

[cl94]

The MVM issue is why phone passes and online reloading need to be a thing. Not that hard with today's technology. I'm on a train to DC right now for a conference and I reloaded my SmarTrip online with a couple clicks.

 

That being said, with modern technology, it's also possible to issue small POS systems to retailers to refill cards on the new system. An iPad-based system isn't that hard to do with modern technology. Expensive, yes, but allows the cards to be refilled practically anywhere even if one doesn't have a phone and cheaper than putting a machine everywhere. I wish I had access to the presentation CDTA gave to us transportation people at RPI on their technology so I can post slides.

Reason I'm referring so much to CDTA? It's also a state agency, so the technology could be transferred quite easily to the MTA.

[DaTransitMan4608]

A single card for the entire NY Metropolitan Area would be amazing.

 

Hell, if other cities in the BOS-NY-DC Megacity took the card, whoo.

 

...Too ambitious?

WHERE's THE BUCKET?!?! I NEED THE BUCKET!!! SO...MUCH...FOAM!!

 

Nah but in all seriousness, I think a multi-agency fare system would be what this region really needs and I think the public would like it too since it could save them money if they only have to buy one pass.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Can't you buy monthlies on eTix?  I personally like not having to fuss with additional things on my wallet, nor do I enjoy doing a sprint down the platform to where the machines are and then sprinting back to where the train actually stops.

I should add that the Monthly passes are basically Metrocards, so it isn't a real hassle at all.

[cl94]

WHERE's THE BUCKET?!?! I NEED THE BUCKET!!! SO...MUCH...FOAM!!

 

Nah but in all seriousness, I think a multi-agency fare system would be what this region really needs and I think the public would like it too since it could save them money if they only have to buy one pass.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

 

"So much foam", but most of the world already has this. Heck, as I already mentioned, all of Ontario uses the same card.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

"So much foam", but most of the world already has this. Heck, as I already mentioned, all of Ontario uses the same card.

Mostly small cities up in Canada, so no big deal.  The major "big cities" are places like Toronto, Vancouver and Montréal.  Outside of that there's the capital (Ottawa), Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver, but even Montréal is like a small more European centric New York.  I've been there several times, and it's a very walkable place. Montréal's population is under 2 million and Toronto is under 3 million versus 8.5 million for New York City and the greater NY area.  You can't even compare.

[Around the Horn]

Touching in and out[edit]

 

Travellers touch the card on a distinctive yellow circular reader (a Cubic Tri-Reader) on the automated barriers at London Underground stations to 'touch in' and 'touch out' at the start and end of a journey (contact is not necessary, but the range of the reader is only a few millimeters). Tram stops and buses also have readers on the driver/conductor's ticket machine, and on these modes passengers must touch their card to the reader at the start of their journey only. Most DLR stations and occasionally London Underground stations such as at Waterloo (for the Waterloo & City line) do not have automatic barriers so passengers must touch their card on a reader at both the beginning and end of their journey if they wish to avoid being charged the maximum fare for an unresolved journey. Such a step is not needed if transferring between trains within a station unless they are run by different operators.

 

Season tickets[edit]

Main article: Travelcard

Oyster cards can be used to store season tickets of both travelcards and bus passes (of one week or more), and a Pay-as-you-go balance.

An Oyster card can hold up to three season tickets at the same time. Season tickets are Bus & Tram Passes or Travelcards lasting 7 days, 1-month, or any duration up to one year (annual).

There is no essential difference in validity or cost between a 7-day, monthly or longer period Travelcard on Oyster and one on a traditional paper ticket; they are valid on all Underground, Overground, DLR, bus, tram and national rail services within the zones purchased. See the main article for a fuller explanation of Travelcards. Tube, DLR and London Overground Travelcards may be used on buses in all zones. Trams may also be used if the travelcard includes Zones 3, 4, 5 or 6.^[29]

Although TfL asks all Oyster users to swipe their card at entry/exit points of their journey, in practice Travelcard holders only need to "touch in" and "touch out" to operate ticket barriers or because they intend to travel outside the zones for which their Travelcard is valid. As long as the Travelcard holder stays within their permitted zones no fare will be deducted from the pay as you go funds on the card. The Oyster system checks that the Travelcard is valid in the zones it is being used in.

 

Travel outside zones[edit]

If users travel outside the valid zones of their Travelcard (but within Oyster payment zones), any remaining fare due may be deducted from their pay-as-you-go funds (see below for how this is calculated). From 22 May 2011 Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs) were no longer required.^[30] Before that date, users who travelled outside the zones of their Travelcard, and whose journey involved the use of a National Rail service, were required to set an OEP on their Oyster card before travelling, to ensure that they paid for the extra-zonal journey.

 

Renewals[edit]

Oyster card Travelcards can be renewed at the normal sales points and ticket machines at London Underground or London Overground stations, Oyster Ticket Stop agents, or some National Rail stations. Travelcards can also be renewed online via the Oystercard website, or by telephone sales from TfL; users must then nominate a Tube or overground station where they will swipe their card in order to charge up the card with the funds or season ticket purchased. Alternatively a user can choose to automatically add either £20 or £40 every time the balance on the card falls below £10. There are further restrictions on when an online purchase can be "collected" by swiping in at a station, after the date of online purchase (Travelcard: up to five days before start date until two days after the start date; pay as you go: from the day after order is placed for a total of 8 days).^[31] If the fare is purchased online before 23:00, it will be available the following day. For more Travelcard renewal information, see the section on Recharging in this article. Travelcard renewals cannot be added from a reader on a bus.

 

Pay-as-you-go[edit]

In addition to holding Travelcards and bus passes, Oyster cards can also be used as stored-value cards, holding electronic funds of money. Amounts are deducted from the card each time it is used, and the funds can be "recharged" when required. The maximum value that an Oyster card may hold is £90. This system is known as "pay as you go" (abbreviated PAYG), because instead of holding a season ticket, the user only pays at the point of use.

When Oyster cards were introduced, the PAYG system was initially named "pre pay", and this name is still sometimes used by National Rail. TfL officially refers to the system as "pay as you go" in all publicity.

The validity of PAYG has a more complex history as it has only been gradually accepted by transport operators independent of TfL. Additionally, the use of PAYG differs across the various modes of transport in London, and passengers are sometimes required to follow different procedures to pay for their journey correctly.

It is possible to have a negative pay-as-you-go balance after completing a journey, but this will prevent the card from being used (even if it is loaded with a valid Travelcard) until the card is topped up.

 

Oyster route validators[edit]

In 2009, TfL introduced a new type of Oyster card validator, distinguished from the standard yellow validators by having a pink-coloured reader. They do not deduct funds, but are used at peripheral interchange points to confirm journey details. Oyster Pay-As-You-Go users travelling between two points without passing through Zone 1 are eligible for a lower fare, and from 6 September 2009 can confirm their route by touching their Oyster cards on the pink validators when they change trains, allowing them to be charged the appropriate fare without paying for Zone 1 travel. The pink validators are located at 15 interchange stations.

• Gospel Oak
• Gunnersbury
• Highbury & Islington
• Kensington Olympia
• Rayners Lane
• Stratford
• West Brompton
• Willesden Junction
• Blackhorse Road
• Wimbledon
• Richmond
• Whitechapel
• Canada Water
• Surrey Quays (introduced September 2013)
• Clapham Junction (introduced September 2013)

An example journey would be Watford Junction to Richmond, which as of January 2017 costs £5.00 peak and £3.10 off-peak when travelling via Zone 1. If travelling on a route outside Zone 1 via Willesden Junction, the fares are £4.10 and £1.80 respectively, which can be charged correctly if the Oyster card is validated at the pink validator when changing trains at Willesden Junction.

 

Underground and DLR[edit]

 

 

Oyster card pay-as-you-go users must "touch in" at the start of a journey by London Underground or DLR, and "touch out" again at the end. The Oyster card readers automatically calculate the correct fare based on the start and end points of the journey and deduct that fare from the Oyster card. Pay-as-you-go funds are also used to cover any additional fares due from season ticket holders who have travelled outside the valid zones of their season ticket (see Travelcards above).

Passengers enter or exit most London Underground stations through ticket barriers which are operated by swiping an Oyster card or other valid ticket. Some tube stations (such as those at National Rail interchanges) and DLR stations have standalone validators with no barriers. In both instances, pay-as-you-go users are required to touch in and out.

 

London Overground[edit]

 

 

London Overground services are operated by TfL and Oyster pay-as-you-go users use their cards in the same way as on Underground journeys, touching their card on a card reader at the entry and exit points of their journey to calculate the fare due.

 

Buses

 

Users must touch the Oyster card only once at the point of boarding: as London buses have a single flat fare of £1.50, there is no need to calculate an end point of the journey.

As London buses do not accept cash payments, TfL introduced a "one more journey" policy on Oyster cards. ^[32] This meant that customers are able to take a bus if their cards have £0 or more. This may take the balance into negative, but it can be topped up at a later date.

Some London bus routes cross outside the Greater London boundary before reaching their terminus. Pay as you go users are permitted to travel the full length of these route on buses operated as part of the London Bus network, even to destinations some distance outside Greater London.

 

Trams

 

As London's trams operate on the same fare structure as buses, the rules are similar and users with pre-pay must touch the Oyster card only once at the point of boarding (users with Travelcards valid for the Tramlink zones need not touch in unless travelling to Wimbledon with a Travelcard not valid in zone 3).

A more complex arrangement exists at Wimbledon; tram passengers starting their journey at Wimbledon must pass through ticket gates in order to reach the tram platform, and therefore need to touch their Oyster card to open the barriers. They must then touch their Oyster card once again on the card reader on the Tramlink platform to confirm their journey as a tram passenger. Tram passengers arriving in Wimbledon must not touch out on the card reader on the Tramlink platform but must touch-out to exit via the station gates. If the card is touched on the platform, the touch-out at the gate would be seen as a touch-in and cause the maximum cash fare to be charged to the card.^[34]

 

River

 

Passengers boarding a riverbus service must present their Oyster card to the ticket office before boarding they use who a hand-held card reader, and the appropriate fare is deducted from their pay-as-you-go balance. Thames Clippers operate a pay before boarding policy. ^[35]

Oyster pay-as-you-go is valid only to purchase tickets for London River Services boats operated by Thames Clippers. Pay-as-you-go is not accepted for payment by other riverboat operators.

Emirates Air Line[edit]

Oyster cards are accepted on the Emirates Air Line cable route between Greenwich Peninsula and Royal Docks. The Emirates Air Line is outside of the London Travelcard validity. However, a 25% discount applies to Travelcard and Freedom pass holders for both single and return journeys.^[36] The discount is automatically applied to Oyster card users, but only if their Travelcard is loaded onto their Oyster card. Freedom pass holders and visitors in possession of ordinary magnetic stripe Travelcards have to buy a cash ticket if they wish to take advantage of the discount.

National Rail

As with Underground and DLR journeys, Oyster PAYG users on National Rail must swipe their card at the start and end of the journey to pay the correct fare. PAYG funds may also be used to cover any additional fares due from season ticket holders who have travelled outside the valid zones of their season ticket (see Travelcards above).

Many large National Rail stations in London have Oystercard-compatible barriers. At other smaller stations, users must touch the card on a standalone validator.

 

Out of Station Interchange (OSI)[edit]

 

At a number of Tube, DLR, London Overground and National Rail stations which lie in close proximity, or where interchange requires passengers to pass through ticket barriers, an Out of Station Interchange (OSI) is permitted. In such cases, the card holder touches out at one station and then touches in again before starting the next leg of the journey. The PAYG fares are then combined and charged as a single journey. Examples include transferring between the Jubilee line at Canary Wharf and the DLR where Oyster card holders must swipe their card at the ticket barriers in the Tube station, and then touch in on the validator at the DLR station. Balham (National Rail) to/from Balham (Tube) is another OSI, as is Camden Town (Tube) to/from Camden Road (London Overground).^[37] Failure to touch in or out on the validators in these circumstances will incur a maximum fare which is deducted from PAYG funds. In some cases (e.g. at West Hampstead NR stations) the OSI replicates interchanges which have existed for several decades before the invention of the Oyster system but were generally used with season tickets rather than day tickets.

Out of Station Interchanges can be temporary or permanent. A temporary arrangement may exist between two stations at short notice (routinely during weekend work but also when an emergency closure occurs). The two journeys that result are only charged as a single journey.

 

Recharging[edit]

 

 

When the PAYG balance runs low, the balance can be topped up at the normal sales points or ticket machines at London Underground or London Overground stations, Oyster Ticket Stops or some National Rail stations. All ticket offices at stations run by London Underground will sell or recharge Oyster cards, or handle Oyster card refunds. However, some Tube stations are actually operated by National Rail train operating companies, and their ticket offices will not deal with Oyster refunds. DLR does not have any ticket offices which sell any Oyster card top-ups or handle refunds (as its stations are usually unmanned), except for the information office at London City Airport.

PAYG funds and Travelcard season tickets (but not Bus & Tram Passes) can also be purchased online via the Oyster online website or by calling the Oyster helpline; users must then select one station or tram stop where they will validate their card in order to load the funds or Travelcard purchased. This should be done as part of a normal journey to avoid the risk of paying an Oyster maximum fare.

If the customer is purchasing PAYG, the top up will be at the gates of their nominated station, or Tramlink stop the next day (ready for first train, provided they made the purchase before 11 PM the previous night). It will remain at the gates for 7 further days before dropping off the system.

If the customer purchases a Travelcard season ticket, it will 'arrive' at the gates, up to 5 days before the start date of the ticket and will remain there until 2 days after the ticket has started. If the customer does not make their pick up in time, it will take a further 14 days to refund automatically to the bank card they made the purchase with.^[38] Top-ups of this type cannot be added from a reader on a bus.

For further information on recharging and renewals, see the section on Renewals in this article.

 

Auto top-up[edit]

 

 

Customers can set up and manage Auto top-up online for their existing Oyster card. They register a debit or credit card, make a PAYG top-up purchase (minimum £10) and select either £20 or £40 as the Auto top-up amount. Alternatively, a new Oyster card with Auto top-up and a minimum of £10 pay as you go can be ordered via Oyster online.

There is a constraint in the design, that requires a journey to be made via a nominated station, before auto top-up can be enabled. There are a number of services such as Thames Clippers, for which this initiation transaction is not offered.

Whenever the pay as you go balance falls below £10, £20 or £40 is added to the balance automatically when the Oyster card is touched on an entry validator. A light on the Oyster reader flashes to indicate the Auto top-up has taken place and an email is sent to confirm the transaction. Payment is then taken from the registered debit or credit card.

To ensure successful transactions, customers must record any changes to their billing address and update their debit or credit card details as necessary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_card

 

Just get a variant of the Oyster card already. This system is, like, perfect for us...

 

(And SEPTA, maybe, just maybe, you should really emulate this with your SEPTA Key card? )

[bobtehpanda]

Mostly small cities up in Canada, so no big deal.  The major "big cities" are places like Toronto, Vancouver and Montréal.  Outside of that there's the capital (Ottawa), Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver, but even Montréal is like a small more European centric New York.  I've been there several times, and it's a very walkable place. Montréal's population is under 2 million and Toronto is under 3 million versus 8.5 million for New York City and the greater NY area.  You can't even compare.

 

All of Japan is also on the same smartcard, essentially. But the Japanese are the gold standard of how to run a rail operation, so I doubt anything like that will be implemented here.

[cl94]

The Toronto area has about the same population as the 5 boroughs and the most significant public transportation system in North America outside of New York with as much bureaucracy. Look, if they can get 20 systems to run on the same card, we can get 10 (if that), especially when most of them are under the control of a couple of operators.

[Themman92]

Is timing of a replacement still expected to roll-out in 2018?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

All of Japan is also on the same smartcard, essentially. But the Japanese are the gold standard of how to run a rail operation, so I doubt anything like that will be implemented here.

You got that right. Most of the high tech debuts over there.

[bobtehpanda]

You got that right. Most of the high tech debuts over there.

 

Eh, they live in a weird 2001 version of the future; most people in Japan still have flip phones, for instance.

 

Is timing of a replacement still expected to roll-out in 2018?

 

Well, Emperor Cuomo said 2018, and what he says tends to happen. There hasn't been any news since then.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I am glad to announce that the MVM's have returned to the Metro-North ticket area in Grand Central.  I'm not sure what took so long, but I'm glad they are back.  Saw them over the weekend while I was making my way to Metro-North.

[Lance]

Cool. I missed that backup for when I forgot to refill my unlimited after leaving my job. You notice these little things when you have to go to the shuttle platform mezzanine to refill your card, then run back to catch your train. Are they back in the same location they used to be at?

 

Regarding the addition of new MVMs at non-subway locations, I do feel they should at least have one MVM at the railroad stations. With the amount of buses that serve said stations, especially in Westchester, it makes plenty of sense to install an MVM or two at these hubs. Of course, with the MetroCard's replacement coming Soon™, they will likely use that as a reason for not installing them.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Cool. I missed that backup for when I forgot to refill my unlimited after leaving my job. You notice these little things when you have to go to the shuttle platform mezzanine to refill your card, then run back to catch your train. Are they back in the same location they used to be at?

 

Regarding the addition of new MVMs at non-subway locations, I do feel they should at least have one MVM at the railroad stations. With the amount of buses that serve said stations, especially in Westchester, it makes plenty of sense to install an MVM or two at these hubs. Of course, with the MetroCard's replacement coming Soon™, they will likely use that as a reason for not installing them.

Yep, and there's two of them like before.  They're located right near track 30.  You can see the ticket area from there. And yes, I too have faced that predicament... Having to run to a MVM, in the opposite direction and then run all the way back to get the train.  Not fun at all.

[Around the Horn]

One thing I hope they do with the new fare payment system, and this whole MVM in Grand Central thing reminded me of it, is create one vending machine for everything, the new cards, single rides and railroad tickets...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

One thing I hope they do with the new fare payment system, and this whole MVM in Grand Central thing reminded me of it, is create one vending machine for everything, the new cards, single rides and railroad tickets...

That would be a win win for everybody.  Less maintenance crews needed, fewer machines, etc.  I think they devote too many machines to MNRR tickets in some areas and not enough in others.  On the opposite side of track 30 you'll see lines outside of the ticket booth area which shouldn't be.

[jwalsh]

Being NY resident, been to several countries and enjoyed traveling in several metro, transit systems. NY is still not up to the modern standards. Glad to hear they have plans to upgrade the system. Current system is confusing with fare structure especially for visitors. Recently PA has introduced testing of their new system after delaying for several years and its horrible. Ticket dispensing is slow and septakey website is very confusing.  Hope NY does not get into same mess. Seoul & London are my favorite metro systems.