Here’s why your commute sucked this morning

[itmaybeokay]

And NYC is different how exactly?  With the constant delays some trains ARE running at almost 20 minute frequencies during the rush, despite what the schedule may say. 

 

 you are literally the only person I am aware of claiming 20 minute headways during rush hour. 

 

Are we pushing the "delays are a fabrication to enact sub-rosa service cuts" narrative? Is that what you're getting at here? 

 

 

We can play a different game, open to all:

6th avenue line has power cut on all four tracks at W4. It's 8:30 am Monday. Assume the following headways:

A: 8 TPH

B: 6 TPH

C: 6 TPH

D: 8 TPH

E: 15 TPH

F: 15 TPH

M: 6 TPH

 

Track says it will be at least 90 minutes until the power is back on. Go for it. Dispatch your trains. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 you are literally the only person I am aware of claiming 20 minute headways during rush hour. 

 

Are we pushing the "delays are a fabrication to enact sub-rosa service cuts" narrative? Is that what you're getting at here? 

 

 

We can play a different game, open to all:

6th avenue line has power cut on all four tracks at W4. It's 8:30 am Monday. Assume the following headways:

A: 8 TPH

B: 6 TPH

C: 6 TPH

D: 8 TPH

E: 15 TPH

F: 15 TPH

M: 6 TPH

 

Track says it will be at least 90 minutes until the power is back on. Go for it. Dispatch your trains. 

I don't know what's so hard to believe about that.  I take the Lex line often, and it's pretty easy for there to be delays. The is set to run every 8 - 10 minutes during most of the rush.  Any little delay could easily push that to 20 minutes.  I could use a few other trains as well if you would like.  There is a world that exists outside of your own commute.

 

I don't care what your TPH is.  If there are delays all of that crap goes out of the window.  Just using the and as examples, if you have 6 scheduled trains per hour, that's a 10 minute wait on average, and any delay can push that to 20 minutes. Using your own example of giving yourself an extra 10 minutes, there's your 20 minute wait.

[Wallyhorse]

 you are literally the only person I am aware of claiming 20 minute headways during rush hour. 

 

Are we pushing the "delays are a fabrication to enact sub-rosa service cuts" narrative? Is that what you're getting at here? 

 

 

We can play a different game, open to all:

6th avenue line has power cut on all four tracks at W4. It's 8:30 am Monday. Assume the following headways:

A: 8 TPH

B: 6 TPH

C: 6 TPH

D: 8 TPH

E: 15 TPH

F: 15 TPH

M: 6 TPH

 

Track says it will be at least 90 minutes until the power is back on. Go for it. Dispatch your trains. 

Answered this in the "What If" Thread.

[B35 via Church]

Something happened on the about an hour or so ago..... Looking out the window on the LIRR, it looked like an evacuation of some sort; mass amounts of people descending to street level..... Atlantic does NOT see hundreds of people in one shot like that getting off - even if there's a train on both tracks....

[Deucey]

And that would not help me or other riders one bit. We've had this discussion before...

Doesn't the <R> shuttle to Whitehall with the local help? Helped me enormously getting to Staten Island from BedStuy.

[GojiMet86]

Something happened on the about an hour or so ago..... Looking out the window on the LIRR, it looked like an evacuation of some sort; mass amounts of people descending to street level..... Atlantic does NOT see hundreds of people in one shot like that getting off - even if there's a train on both tracks....

 

An unauthorized person on the tracks at Wilson Avenue. Service was suspended between Wyckoff and Canarsie.

[Around the Horn]

Doesn't the <R> shuttle to Whitehall with the local help? Helped me enormously getting to Staten Island from BedStuy.

 

Um, the to Whitehall is late nights, not rush hours and what in the world is a ?

[Deucey]

All they need to do is move to another city where the trains run every 20 minutes during rush hour and service stops at 10pm, and they'll come crying back for NYC's "amazing" system.

One week at home in Sacramento - where for the same fare as NYC I get two buses an hour outside rush hour if lucky, no transfers without a $6 daily pass (or $5.50 for a single trip that requires a transfer) and the train shuts down at 10pm and I was happy for our broke down oft-delayed subway and bus system.

Um, the to Whitehall is late nights, not rush hours and what in the world is a ?

I got the code wrong for and . No need to be pedantic.

[Wallyhorse]

And in an act of going too far that is likely related to Monday's delays:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-commuter-allegedly-draws-gun-mta-worker-subway-delays-article-1.2943233

Someone pulling a gun on an cleaner because his subway train was delayed.  

[biGC323232]

And in an act of going too far that is likely related to Monday's delays:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-commuter-allegedly-draws-gun-mta-worker-subway-delays-article-1.2943233

 

Someone pulling a gun on an cleaner because his subway train was delayed.  

Wow...Just dumb....I need to know whats pulling a gun on a cleaner gonna do for you besides jail...VG8 Dont bring your gun with you on the subway....With the delays you experience you liable to shoot everyone in the station.....  

[sovetskii52]

My commute on Monday January 9th sucked too. I waited 40 minutes for the Bx12 Select Bus (8:08am - 8:48am) which is supposed to run every 6 minutes. No delays or reroutes about it posted on MTA.info. I'm surprised I even fit into that one bus that came. Later I waited about 15 minutes for the Coney Island bound at Jay Street. Ended up 30 minutes late for work. Lucky for me I got a friendly supervisor and nothing important to do that morning. I agree that some people overreact to these kinds of events. It's not like they happen everyday. Do they think other transit systems don't have problems like NYCT does? And many commuters don't even look or pay attention to service changes and things like that. I often get asked how they can get from point A to point B. Especially on weekends.   

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My commute on Monday January 9th sucked too. I waited 40 minutes for the Bx12 Select Bus (8:08am - 8:48am) which is supposed to run every 6 minutes. No delays or reroutes about it posted on MTA.info. I'm surprised I even fit into that one bus that came. Later I waited about 15 minutes for the Coney Island bound at Jay Street. Ended up 30 minutes late for work. Lucky for me I got a friendly supervisor and nothing important to do that morning. I agree that some people overreact to these kinds of events. It's not like they happen everyday. Do they think other transit systems don't have problems like NYCT does? And many commuters don't even look or pay attention to service changes and things like that. I often get asked how they can get from point A to point B. Especially on weekends.   

Sure delays happen, but they are occurring more frequently, which some people seem to want to ignore or refuse to admit. I've been monitoring the 's status page this week randomly, and so far at least four or five lines have seen delays every day this week (that is from Monday until today).  

 

- Delays every day so far this week

 - Delays every day so far this week

- Delays every day so far this week

- Have seen various delays so far this week

 

So again that's 12 subway lines out 23 total that have seen a delay of some sort.  

 

Most of the delays stem from signal problems, and that's something that seems to be a bigger problem each year.  The question is what is the doing to mitigate the delays that it can control?  

 

I also think it's a cop out to say that we should somehow be "grateful" for such atrocious service especially with fare hikes taking place every two years and another one scheduled for this year.  Our transportation system is vital since so many New Yorkers don't have a car and thus need public transportation. 

 

Finally, for those blaming the weather for these delays, we will be receiving a warm up for the next few days. I want to see if these delays continue with the warmer weather.

[yardlet6]

Amen to that!!

How about living in a city that just has buses and thwey run every half hour on rush hours. Miami has a metro and commuter rail but the bulk of the buses run every half hour.

[biGC323232]

Sure delays happen, but they are occurring more frequently, which some people seem to want to ignore or refuse to admit. I've been monitoring the 's status page this week randomly, and so far at least four or five lines have seen delays every day this week (that is from Monday until today).  

 

- Delays every day so far this week

 - Delays every day so far this week

- Delays every day so far this week

- Have seen various delays so far this week

 

So again that's 12 subway lines out 23 total that have seen a delay of some sort.  

 

Most of the delays stem from signal problems, and that's something that seems to be a bigger problem each year.  The question is what is the doing to mitigate the delays that it can control?  

 

I also think it's a cop out to say that we should somehow be "grateful" for such atrocious service especially with fare hikes taking place every two years and another one scheduled for this year.  Our transportation system is vital since so many New Yorkers don't have a car and thus need public transportation. 

 

Finally, for those blaming the weather for these delays, we will be receiving a warm up for the next few days. I want to see if these delays continue with the warmer weather.

VG8 was that you that pulled the gun on the Mta cleaner for his train being delayed...   

[RailRunRob]

How about living in a city that just has buses and thwey run every half hour on rush hours. Miami has a metro and commuter rail but the bulk of the buses run every half hour.

I've lived in Oakland, SF and even LA for a short time.  SF is the best out of bunch with some type of Owl service. I can't tell how many times id have to cut the night short to catch that last BART train headed to the East Bay. I've never forgot the first time I walked back to the Powell Street Station to find it was closed it was just unfathomable to a New Yorker. We have it good in so many ways. You have to leave sometimes to see that.

[RailRunRob]

And NYC is different how exactly?  With the constant delays some trains ARE running at almost 20 minute frequencies during the rush, despite what the schedule may say. 

 

 Okay with that said what's the overall on-time record for the system? What's the average for 2015? Is it lower than 70% on time performance? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

VG8 was that you that pulled the gun on the Mta cleaner for his train being delayed...   

Not I! I guess you could call it Train Delay Rage...  

 

I've lived in Oakland, SF and even LA for a short time.  SF is the best out of bunch with some type of Owl service. I can't tell how many times id have to cut the night short to catch that last BART train headed to the East Bay. I've never forgot the first time I walked back to the Powell Street Station to find it was closed it was just unfathomable to a New Yorker. We have it good in so many ways. You have to leave sometimes to see that.

 I've lived in Florence (Italy) which has no subway (just a bus system), in two different areas of the city (a few blocks from Palazzo Pitti) and then on the other side of the Arno River, and even with the bus strikes there, I found their system to be efficient.  They had "SBS" WAYYY before it ever came to NYC.  The drivers focus on driving and let the inspectors check tickets as they're supposed to, and the only time I interacted with one in Italian was when I had a question about what his next stop was.  As for the subways here in NYC, there is no comparison because NYC was built around being the greatest city that should have a grand transportation system, so this nonsense about comparing it other places is just another cop out to excuse the horrendous subway service that continues to deteriorate.  I've been riding the subway for many years now, and I've rode train systems in numerous other cities (Milan, Rome, Frankfurt, etc.), and while this system on paper is grandiose, it functions very poorly.  

 

For a city the size of NY, our transportation system should be MUCH better than what it is, and that's my issue with it.  We're essentially playing catch up to where it should be.

[Lance]

You're not wrong about the general state of transit here in New York, especially in comparison to contemporary European and Asian systems. Of course, if our system was managed as well as those other transit systems and actually received some serious, dedicated funding for expansion and upgrades, we could actually compete with cities around the world when it comes to transit. Until that changes, commutes will remain the same with little to no improvement.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 Okay with that said what's the overall on-time record for the system? What's the average for 2015? Is it lower than 70% on time performance? 

That's a good question, and one that seems to be up for debate.  What's interesting is the way that the accesses on-time performance.

 

DOWNTOWN

 

Transportation

Subway Service is Getting Worse on Several Lines: MTA Data

 

By Danielle Tcholakian | July 28, 2016 5:16pm

 

 

The A train was over 100 percent behind schedule more than 10 percent of the time over the past 12 months.

View Full Caption

DNAinfo/Katie Honan

 

FINANCIAL DISTRICT — Does your train commute seem worse this year than last year? Depending on what line you're on, it might be.

 

Riders waited longer for the A, F, G and M lines on weekdays more frequently over the last 12 months than they did in the same period last year, according to data discussed at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's board meeting on Monday.

 

The MTA collects data on the intervals between train arrivals in stations in order to assess wait times. But it did not translate the gaps in service into minutes delayed.

 

The agency says a train "meets standard" even if it is up to 25 percent later than it was meant to be.

 

A "minor gap" in service is if the wait time is more than 25 percent and up to 50 percent longer than expected, a "medium gap" is 50 percent to 100 percent longer and a "major gap" is more than 100 percent longer, or if the train misses its "interval" entirely.

 

From June 2015 to May 2016, the A train suffered medium gaps 9.1 percent of the time, up from 8.5 percent from June 2014 to May 2015.

 

And the F saw medium gaps 8.4 percent of the time, up from 7.6 percent of the time over the previous year.

 

Overall wait times were longer for the A by 2 percent, the F by 1.5 percent, the G by 1.3 percent and the M by 1.2 percent. (Work is planned for the M line as it's expected to accommodate L train riders during the L train's 18-month shut down.)

 

► The L Train Shutdown: Here's How to Commute Between Brooklyn and Manhattan

 

Full wait time assessment data is on pages 20 through 22 of the MTA's Transit and Bus Committee book for July.

 

What does this all mean for riders?

Not much, experts say.

 

Using the MTA's data, one can deduce that "service is more unreliable" and "more of the trains are late," said Transit Center Director Tabitha Decker.

 

"But you have no idea how long it is," added Transit Center Director of Communications and Advocacy Jon Orcutt. "It's almost incomprehensible to translate it to what it means to the riders. And that's not good — it really should be a customer kind of thing."

 

He added: "They measure it from the point of view of people operating trains, not from the point of view of people trying to get around the city."

 

Transit Center wonks want the MTA to measure excess wait time, or EWT, instead, the way the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority does.

 

"EWT measures how much extra time passengers wait for a train or bus compared with the ideal scenario of every vehicle running at scheduled frequencies. This gives it major advantages over wait assessment," they wrote in a recent report.

 

"The [MTA] isn't using their data to the best advantage to improve the system," Decker said.

MTA spokesman Kevin Oritz said he "wholeheartedly disagree."

 

"On-Time Performance and wait assessment are part of many analytical tools we use to develop strategies for improving service," he said. "Wait assessment is our primary indicator because our service delivery focus is on evenness of service. This is our focus because, generally speaking, our customers — relatively few of whom travel all the way to a terminal station — are more significantly affected by the time they wait for a train at a station along the route rather than the difference between the actual and scheduled arrival time at terminal stations."

 

Source:  https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20160728/financial-district/subway-service-is-getting-worse-on-several-lines-mta-data

 

Additionally, if we look at the audit done by the city comptroller looking at the 's on-time performance in 2014, it points to the same thing... That delays are worsening.

 

Source: http://gothamist.com/2015/08/13/subway_worse_duh.php

 

There was an article showing that the even admitted that its on-time performance is worsening, but I can't locate it quite yet. 

 

Kevin Ortiz is a joke.  It's amazing that he tries to justify this by talking about how very few riders ride from end to end, as if that excuses the way that the accesses on-time performance.  Their assessment should be in minutes not percentage so that we can clearly see how delayed trains really are as opposed to what the schedule says, and there's a reason they don't want to do it that way.

[RailRunRob]

Not I! I guess you could call it Train Delay Rage...  

 

 I've lived in Florence (Italy) which has no subway (just a bus system), in two different areas of the city (a few blocks from Palazzo Pitti) and then on the other side of the Arno River, and even with the bus strikes there, I found their system to be efficient.  They had "SBS" WAYYY before it ever came to NYC.  The drivers focus on driving and let the inspectors check tickets as they're supposed to, and the only time I interacted with one in Italian was when I had a question about what his next stop was.  As for the subways here in NYC, there is no comparison because NYC was built around being the greatest city that should have a grand transportation system, so this nonsense about comparing it other places is just another cop out to excuse the horrendous subway service that continues to deteriorate.  I've been riding the subway for many years now, and I've rode train systems in numerous other cities (Milan, Rome, Frankfurt, etc.), and while this system on paper is grandiose, it functions very poorly.  

 

For a city the size of NY, our transportation system should be MUCH better than what it is, and that's my issue with it.  We're essentially playing catch up to where it should be.

Okay from a Perspective of the builder an engineer I build a pipeline to handle 30,000 gallons a water per second. Water flow rate is fine at 1st I leave to the future generations to add-on to what I started 80 years from now come on !! They'll build five more!!. 10,50,70 years go by. There no investment put into this pipeline no additional but over the years more and more water is being pushed through. Now this pipeline is handling 70,000 Gallons with more and more people pulling from it sometimes the pressure is an issue lets say 30% of time I can't as much water as I want but I can get some. The Fact that this piece of infrastructure more the 100 years old in some spot is still, for the most part, effective in moving double maybe even triple this intended purpose is an amazing testament to how well this system was designed. Everything you speaking on isn't the system fault it's your elected officials on multiple levels. Give me a system in Eupore moving volumes like NYC. Maybe Moscow and they don't have much issue getting rid of any blocks in their way on the political governmental levels. The attributes that make you great can also get in the way. (Shrugs)

[RailRunRob]

 

That's a good question, and one that seems to be up for debate.  What's interesting is the way that the accesses on-time performance.

 

DOWNTOWN

 

Transportation

Subway Service is Getting Worse on Several Lines: MTA Data

 

By Danielle Tcholakian | July 28, 2016 5:16pm

 

 

The A train was over 100 percent behind schedule more than 10 percent of the time over the past 12 months.

View Full Caption

DNAinfo/Katie Honan

 

FINANCIAL DISTRICT — Does your train commute seem worse this year than last year? Depending on what line you're on, it might be.

 

Riders waited longer for the A, F, G and M lines on weekdays more frequently over the last 12 months than they did in the same period last year, according to data discussed at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's board meeting on Monday.

 

The MTA collects data on the intervals between train arrivals in stations in order to assess wait times. But it did not translate the gaps in service into minutes delayed.

 

The agency says a train "meets standard" even if it is up to 25 percent later than it was meant to be.

 

A "minor gap" in service is if the wait time is more than 25 percent and up to 50 percent longer than expected, a "medium gap" is 50 percent to 100 percent longer and a "major gap" is more than 100 percent longer, or if the train misses its "interval" entirely.

 

From June 2015 to May 2016, the A train suffered medium gaps 9.1 percent of the time, up from 8.5 percent from June 2014 to May 2015.

 

And the F saw medium gaps 8.4 percent of the time, up from 7.6 percent of the time over the previous year.

 

Overall wait times were longer for the A by 2 percent, the F by 1.5 percent, the G by 1.3 percent and the M by 1.2 percent. (Work is planned for the M line as it's expected to accommodate L train riders during the L train's 18-month shut down.)

 

► The L Train Shutdown: Here's How to Commute Between Brooklyn and Manhattan

 

Full wait time assessment data is on pages 20 through 22 of the MTA's Transit and Bus Committee book for July.

 

What does this all mean for riders?

Not much, experts say.

 

Using the MTA's data, one can deduce that "service is more unreliable" and "more of the trains are late," said Transit Center Director Tabitha Decker.

 

"But you have no idea how long it is," added Transit Center Director of Communications and Advocacy Jon Orcutt. "It's almost incomprehensible to translate it to what it means to the riders. And that's not good — it really should be a customer kind of thing."

 

He added: "They measure it from the point of view of people operating trains, not from the point of view of people trying to get around the city."

 

Transit Center wonks want the MTA to measure excess wait time, or EWT, instead, the way the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority does.

 

"EWT measures how much extra time passengers wait for a train or bus compared with the ideal scenario of every vehicle running at scheduled frequencies. This gives it major advantages over wait assessment," they wrote in a recent report.

 

"The [MTA] isn't using their data to the best advantage to improve the system," Decker said.

MTA spokesman Kevin Oritz said he "wholeheartedly disagree."

 

"On-Time Performance and wait assessment are part of many analytical tools we use to develop strategies for improving service," he said. "Wait assessment is our primary indicator because our service delivery focus is on evenness of service. This is our focus because, generally speaking, our customers — relatively few of whom travel all the way to a terminal station — are more significantly affected by the time they wait for a train at a station along the route rather than the difference between the actual and scheduled arrival time at terminal stations."

 

Source:  https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20160728/financial-district/subway-service-is-getting-worse-on-several-lines-mta-data

 

Additionally, if we look at the audit done by the city comptroller looking at the 's on-time performance in 2014, it points to the same thing... That delays are worsening.

 

Source: http://gothamist.com/2015/08/13/subway_worse_duh.php

 

There was an article showing that the even admitted that its on-time performance is worsening, but I can't locate it quite yet. 

 

Kevin Ortiz is a joke.  It's amazing that he tries to justify this by talking about how very few riders ride from end to end, as if that excuses the way that the accesses on-time performance.  Their assessment should be in minutes not percentage so that we can clearly see how delayed trains really are as opposed to what the schedule says, and there's a reason they don't want to do it that way.

 

That's the only way you're going to be able to decipher perspective from fact 472 stations so many different points of entry so many different perspectives. The last article had it at 72% and 81% OTP respectively Weekend and Weekday. For a system, this old and this strained once again it's a bit impressive it's holding so well. NYC is the Second largest GDP in the world 1.5 trillion with T a year. The point of intersection is coming on that chart where this delay issue effects that GDP! That and only that is going to mark the point of possible investment serious investment.

[Around the Horn]

Okay from a Perspective of the builder an engineer I build a pipeline to handle 30,000 gallons a water per second. Water flow rate is fine at 1st I leave to the future generations to add-on to what I started 80 years from now come on !! They'll build five more!!. 10,50,70 years go by. There no investment put into this pipeline no additional but over the years more and more water is being pushed through. Now this pipeline is handling 70,000 Gallons with more and more people pulling from it sometimes the pressure is an issue lets say 30% of time I can't as much water as I want but I can get some.

 

This is the problem in a nutshell... 

 

Also remember, we technically only have half the IND built...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Okay from a Perspective of the builder an engineer I build a pipeline to handle 30,000 gallons a water per second. Water flow rate is fine at 1st I leave to the future generations to add-on to what I started 80 years from now come on !! They'll build five more!!. 10,50,70 years go by. There no investment put into this pipeline no additional but over the years more and more water is being pushed through. Now this pipeline is handling 70,000 Gallons with more and more people pulling from it sometimes the pressure is an issue lets say 30% of time I can't as much water as I want but I can get some. The Fact that this piece of infrastructure more the 100 years old in some spot is still, for the most part, effective in moving double maybe even triple this intended purpose is an amazing testament to how well this system was designed. Everything you speaking on isn't the system fault it's your elected officials on multiple levels. Give me a system in Eupore moving volumes like NYC. Maybe Moscow and they don't have much issue getting rid of any blocks in their way on the political governmental levels. The attributes that make you great can also get in the way. (Shrugs)

We've been over the investment in infrastructure now a gazillion times, but nevertheless there are two separate issues at play here. You can't compare Europe to NY because most of the cities are pretty small, not only in size but in population.  If anything, I would argue that the transportation in some places in Europe should be worse than it is, given how old many cities are, but there's a cultural understanding there that the entire system is important and that buses, ferries, trams, trains and subways all matter.  Having that mindset costs nothing and makes a hell of a difference in how one proceeds.  Aside from that it's about being innovative in terms of how you maximize funds that are available to you.  It's only now in the last few years that the has been making strides to make small changes that have a big impact on how we travel.  We can look at the bus system as an example.  It's astonishing that a city as big as NYC has had SBS service less than 10 years while numerous cities in Europe have had a similar system in place for well over 10 years.  The is only complementing our subway system with some bus lines (mainly feeder lines) and doing everything possible to discourage usage elsewhere.  That in turn is exacerbating an already difficult situation with our subways, as everyone turns to them.

[RailRunRob]

This is the problem in a nutshell... 

 

Also remember, we technically only have half the IND built...

Indeed there's nothing emotional with this. We didn't invest and  yet we expect the world. Get a lot for a little the code for any business person and the world at large. Just cheat yourself in the end really. I hope we don't cheat your kids and grandkids as bad as we've been bamboozled.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's the only way you're going to be able to decipher perspective from fact 472 stations so many different points of entry so many different perspectives. The last article had it at 72% and 81% OTP respectively Weekend and Weekday. For a system, this old and this strained once again it's a bit impressive it's holding so well. NYC is the Second largest GDP in the world 1.5 trillion with T a year. The point of intersection is coming on that chart where this delay issue effects that GDP! That and only that is going to mark the point of possible investment serious investment.

I would say that is nothing to be proud of, and those numbers are still up for debate anyway. As was noted in my previous post, some of this "strain" is caused by the and their refusal to do more to complement the subway.