Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 9, 2017 Share #26 Posted February 9, 2017 The Freedom Ticket fare is going to be $6.50. Monthlies will be $215. $215.00 for a monthly is not any savings. I pay $201.00 for my monthly, and when the fare hike goes into effect, it will be $208.00. Not sure what the savings is there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 9, 2017 Share #27 Posted February 9, 2017 $215.00 for a monthly is not any savings. I pay $201.00 for my monthly, and when the fare hike goes into effect, it will be $208.00. Not sure what the savings is there... That's $215 for the bus subway and commuter rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted February 9, 2017 Share #28 Posted February 9, 2017 That's $215 for the bus subway and commuter rail. Incl. exp bus (I think). More importantly, it's $215 for huge time savings. Time = $$$ in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 9, 2017 Share #29 Posted February 9, 2017 Really, express bus and LIRR fare should be pegged to double base fare, since originally they were supposed to be stand-ins for double-fare-zone trips as it was. The entire fare mechanism needs to be adjusted so that using a monthly Metrocard actually makes economic sense for most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 9, 2017 Share #30 Posted February 9, 2017 Incl. exp bus (I think). More importantly, it's $215 for huge time savings. Time = $$$ in this day and age. If it does that would save me at least $200.00 + plus dollars a month since that would mean I wouldn't need to buy an express bus pass and a Metro-North pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QM1to6Ave Posted February 9, 2017 Share #31 Posted February 9, 2017 I don't see Jamaica on this list...does that mean I won't be able to use this when it is piloted for my travels between Jamaica and Atlantic Terminal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted February 9, 2017 Share #32 Posted February 9, 2017 It's one thing to entice riders, and another to turn commuter trains into subways. I think the two are being confused. The MNRR and LIRR have their purpose within the city, and there are those of us who use them not just because they are punctual, but because they are NOT the subway. I purposely live in a neighborhood without a subway (and I'm not the only one either) because I don't want to deal with everything that comes with commuting via the subway. Commuter trains are more a pleasant ride and they're less crowded. What we should be doing is addressing the subway problem and not trying to have other services become something that they were not designed to be, and turning them into subways and everything that comes with the subways... Delays, crowds, filth, the homeless and so on. I do not support extremely low fares for such a premium service. We live in a capitalist society and we have tiered services for just about everything for a reason. I don't want watered down quality. Those who can't afford the premium fare still have the option of using the subway. We're not talking about having damn there everyone pile on to the LIRR or MNRR. We're talking about attracting some rides to use the service, not making it for the masses. Additionally, it costs more to operate commuter rail services. Fares that are too low will mean the running more service at a loss. A Capitalist that doesn't understand the role of Transit in an economy. You have to overcome what makes you feel uncomfortable and what you currently know. I just used a great example of reused infrastructure The Overground in London I've made this point before. These are exterior lines do you really think your going to get Lexington Ave crowds on a service like this? The goal would be to use the open trackage and not have to pour money into building new subway or getting it integrated into FTA jurisdiction. I can't see this affecting suburban riders if done correctly. What's so hard about reconfiguring a M7 car to seat a few more people? The Service starts within the City limits or maybe a Valley Stream or Yonkers. A service like this even tho it shares trackage with standard LIRR trains think of it as a separate operation. A hybrid division that could be setup to better use the existing infrastructure under existing FRA rules. LIRR Atlantic, Bayridge, Rockaway Beach, Montauk LIC, Southeast Queens, and maybe even the Putnam and Port Morris in the Bronx the SIR might also be easier to manage in this new configuration. Services like these could offer better integration into the subway system and commuter lines. Want to continue your journey on a standard LIRR or MN train use the transfer stations like Jamaica. Okay, requirements and operation costs may be something to workout. PATH isn't doing so well. But doing nothing isn't an option either. I don't understand your view. I don't want open service up to more people to move and travel in a region and add to the bottom line (We know these types of service will cost more then base subway fare). But I also know there's never going to be funding to add new service or build anything. What sense does that make? So do nothing? Fear of derelicts and thugs is really going to prevent you from seeing transport creates the bottom line in our region? Really? Such an obsolete perspective. There's a transit crisis going on! Optimizing what we have shouldn't even be a question. The generations before us blew it we have to keep our region competitive and growing. I don't see any other way. Maybe you do let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 9, 2017 Share #33 Posted February 9, 2017 A Capitalist that doesn't understand the role of Transit in an economy. You have to overcome what makes you feel uncomfortable and what you currently know. I just used a great example of reused infrastructure The Overground in London I've made this point before. These are exterior lines do you really think your going to get Lexington Ave crowds on a service like this? The goal would be to use the open trackage and not have to pour money into building new subway or getting it integrated into FTA jurisdiction. I can't see this affecting suburban riders if done correctly. What's so hard about reconfiguring a M7 car to seat a few more people? The Service starts within the City limits or maybe a Valley Stream or Yonkers. A service like this even tho it shares trackage with standard LIRR trains think of it as a separate operation. A hybrid division that could be setup to better use the existing infrastructure under existing FRA rules. LIRR Atlantic, Bayridge, Rockaway Beach, Montauk LIC, Southeast Queens, and maybe even the Putnam and Port Morris in the Bronx the SIR might also be easier to manage in this new configuration. Services like these could offer better integration into the subway system and commuter lines. Want to continue your journey on a standard LIRR or MN train use the transfer stations like Jamaica. Okay, requirements and operation costs may be something to workout. PATH isn't doing so well. But doing nothing isn't an option either. I don't understand your view. I don't want open service up to more people to move and travel in a region and add to the bottom line (We know these types of service will cost more then base subway fare). But I also know there's never going to be funding to add new service or build anything. What sense does that make? So do nothing? Fear of derelicts and thugs is really going to prevent you from seeing transport creates the bottom line in our region? Really? Such an obsolete perspective. There's a transit crisis going on! Optimizing what we have shouldn't even be a question. The generations before us blew it we have to keep our region competitive and growing. I don't see any other way. Maybe you do let me know. It's called more investment for expansions. I support the Freedom Ticket at the prices I mentioned. $4-5 is far too low given that even the City Ticket is $4.25. You can open the service for more people and keep it a premium one at $6.50-7.00 with free transfers. More than reasonable. At that price you are cutting the cost down to almost half of what it was. It is currently $8.75 peak + $2.75 for the shuttle bus or subway here in Riverdale one way, making the total cost $11.50 or $23.00 round trip. This plan round trip would be $12.00-14.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted February 9, 2017 Share #34 Posted February 9, 2017 There are people that take the jitney to the subway in Queens, meaning $2+ $2.75 =$4.75. They are willing to pay $4.75 for a faster commute. By having it at double the local rate at $5.50 we could actually persuade people to change to the LIRR for them to go to Zone 1. $6.50-$7 is way too much (especially the PW Branch which is a glorified subway). It will cause those people in zone 3 to buy a intermediate ticket(presumed with transfer), and "change at Jamaica" for the subway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 9, 2017 Share #35 Posted February 9, 2017 There are people that take the jitney to the subway in Queens, meaning $2+ $2.75 =$4.75. They are willing to pay $4.75 for a faster commute. By having it at double the local rate at $5.50 we could actually persuade people to change to the LIRR for them to go to Zone 1. $6.50-$7 is way too much (especially the PW Branch which is a glorified subway). It will cause those people in zone 3 to buy a intermediate ticket(presumed with transfer), and "change at Jamaica" for the subway. Oh please. It's an extra $2.25 max with a free transfer. More than reasonable. The express bus is $6.50 and rail service shouldn't be cheaper than another premium service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted February 9, 2017 Share #36 Posted February 9, 2017 Oh please. It's an extra $2.25 max with a free transfer. More than reasonable. The express bus is $6.50 and rail service shouldn't be cheaper than another premium service. The goal here is to help these Eastern Queens Riders, not charge them the same fare for Express service(which they could already take) but choose not to. Why? Maybe it's too unaffordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 9, 2017 Share #37 Posted February 9, 2017 The goal here is to help these Eastern Queens Riders, not charge them the same fare for Express service(which they could already take) but choose not to. Why? Maybe it's too unaffordable. You are helping them by giving them an alternative to the express bus. If it is too cheap, it becomes a money loser for the . Running these services cost money, so there has to be a happy medium. If they want it cheaper they can use the bus to the subway, but thinking that people should get a fast 20 minute ride to Penn Station for a measley $4.75 for peak hour is a joke. City Ticket is $4.25 now without a transfer off-peak (weekends). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielhg121 Posted February 9, 2017 Share #38 Posted February 9, 2017 People should take the express bus during the peak hours, LI people use this as there only way to get to work, it wouldn't be fair to them to have people get on paying a lesser fare and ride their premium service that they paid a lot for. Express buses start in the suburb/rural communities and work their way to a highway if people want, they can take that instead. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted February 9, 2017 Share #39 Posted February 9, 2017 People should take the express bus during the peak hours, LI people use this as there only way to get to work, it wouldn't be fair to them to have people get on paying a lesser fare and ride their premium service that they paid a lot for. Express buses start in the suburb/rural communities and work their way to a highway if people want, they can take that instead. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app The thing is people aren't doing that. Some express bus in Queens have extremely low ridership because maybe it's too expensive. You are helping them by giving them an alternative to the express bus. If it is too cheap, it becomes a money loser for the . Running these services cost money, so there has to be a happy medium. If they want it cheaper they can use the bus to the subway, but thinking that people should get a fast 20 minute ride to Penn Station for a measley $4.75 for peak hour is a joke. City Ticket is $4.25 now without a transfer off-peak (weekends). More than city ticket but less than double the subway fare should do it. But the operations must Change too, right now ALL Eastern Queens station has service into Atlantic Terminal. For one to go to Penn they need to Change at Jamaica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted February 9, 2017 Share #40 Posted February 9, 2017 It's called more investment for expansions. I support the Freedom Ticket at the prices I mentioned. $4-5 is far too low given that even the City Ticket is $4.25. You can open the service for more people and keep it a premium one at $6.50-7.00 with free transfers. More than reasonable. At that price you are cutting the cost down to almost half of what it was. It is currently $8.75 peak + $2.75 for the shuttle bus or subway here in Riverdale one way, making the total cost $11.50 or $23.00 round trip. This plan round trip would be $12.00-14.00. Expansions? You think MTA's going get any type of funding to expand anything anytime soon? So you'd rather build from scratch than reuse what's there now? So with $35k being the median income in some of these areas you're asking someone to shell out $70-80 a week? For a $14 dollar daily round trip? How is this affordable? Riverdale and what you pay in that market is irrelevant. What qualifies you to define what's affordable again? What numbers are you going by from the East Brooklyn and South East Queens markets just curious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agar io Posted February 9, 2017 Share #41 Posted February 9, 2017 The test of the “Freedom Ticket,” as it’s been called by transit advocates, will be implemented along select LIRR stations, mostly along the Atlantic Branch, including Brooklyn’s Atlantic Terminal, East New York and Nostrand Avenue stations, as well as Queens’ Laurelton, Locust Manor, Rosedale and St. Albans stations. ... By allowing riders to transfer seamlessly between the Long Island Railroad and the city’s bus and subway system... I'm not sure I understand the Freedom Ticket. Is it a higher-priced MetroCard, a paper ticket, a contactless card, or none of these? (EDIT: It hasn't been announced yet.) Will it only be valid between the seven listed stations, or are the tickets only being sold there? I also don't see Penn Station and Jamaica, two key stations, on this list. But at $6.50 per one-way trip, it's the price of an express bus pay-per-ride (plus on an exclusive ROW), so it should be faster than express bus. I can see the point of this discounted ticket since it's at a lower price than standard LIRR tickets from that zone. If we're trying to give people an alternative to express bus service or three-leg trips, the plan sounds solid. The transfers (assuming that there would be a similar transfer setup as express buses have), along with the multi-directional travel and the fact that the ticket will be accepted at all times instead of weekends only, give it an advantage compared to City Ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted February 9, 2017 Share #42 Posted February 9, 2017 The thing is people aren't doing that. Some express bus in Queens have extremely low ridership because maybe it's too expensive. More than city ticket but less than double the subway fare should do it. But the operations must Change too, right now ALL Eastern Queens station has service into Atlantic Terminal. For one to go to Penn they need to Change at Jamaica. Indeed. Maybe a direct ride to Penn is a bit more than $4.25. But $4.25 could get you to Brooklyn or at least a transfer to at Jamaica. It's not a hard issue to solve You'd have to switch at Jamaica anyways easily enforceable surcharge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 9, 2017 Share #43 Posted February 9, 2017 The thing is people aren't doing that. Some express bus in Queens have extremely low ridership because maybe it's too expensive. More than city ticket but less than double the subway fare should do it. But the operations must Change too, right now ALL Eastern Queens station has service into Atlantic Terminal. For one to go to Penn they need to Change at Jamaica. Expansions? You think MTA's going get any type of funding to expand anything anytime soon? So you'd rather build from scratch than reuse what's there now? So with $35k being the median income in some of these areas you're asking someone to shell out $70-80 a week? For a $14 dollar daily round trip? How is this affordable? Riverdale and what you pay in that market is irrelevant. What qualifies you to define what's affordable again? What numbers are you going by from the East Brooklyn and South East Queens markets just curious?$6.50 has been proposed previously, so my math is right. What I pay IS relevant since the cost they came up with includes MY neighborhood and other areas without subway service. http://gothamist.com/2015/12/02/mta_freedom_ticket_plan.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted February 9, 2017 Share #44 Posted February 9, 2017 $6.50 has been proposed previously, so my math is right. What I pay IS relevant since the cost they came up with includes MY neighborhood and other areas without subway service. http://gothamist.com/2015/12/02/mta_freedom_ticket_plan.php Saw the article someone else stated this as well. I understand the word proposed as an idea and a discussion with some possible consideration. Riverdale is at a almost $92k a year median sure there are some area's like St Alban's in Southeast Queens that are around a $70k median. But considerations also have to be taken for places along these routes with $35k-$50k median's it's not as one can group everyone together. So yeah it's hella easy to get caught up in a bubble. Riverdale is on one side of a large spectrum. If $6.50 is in the middle so be it. I personally don't believe it to be. But I guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 9, 2017 Share #45 Posted February 9, 2017 Saw the article someone else stated this as well. I understand the word proposed as an idea and a discussion with some possible consideration. Riverdale is at a almost $92k a year median sure there are some area's like St Alban's in Southeast Queens that are around a $70k median. But considerations also have to be taken for places along these routes with $35k-$50k median's it's not as one can group everyone together. So yeah it's hella easy to get caught up in a bubble. Riverdale is on one side of a large spectrum. If $6.50 is in the middle so be it. I personally don't believe it to be. But I guess we'll see. Well if you wanted to be technical, you could come up with all sorts of reasons why the fares should fluctuate. Riverdale has a very large elderly community which means they may not be able to afford the fares, but ultimately it comes down to comparing the other premium services in the area. Most areas of Queens you're talking about has the express bus, and they are used. The issue is not the cost but rather that they aren't as fast as say the LIRR. The current price of the LIRR and lack of transfers in comparison to the express bus is the issue. The people willing to pay $6.50 for the express bus will use this service. I mean someone who can barely afford the subway is not upgrading to an even more expensive service. This is really geared towards middle class people. The people already using MNRR in areas like Riverdale generally are upper middle to upper class, earning at or above that 92k median household income you noted, so they will use the service regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted February 9, 2017 Share #46 Posted February 9, 2017 Well if you wanted to be technical, you could come up with all sorts of reasons why the fares should fluctuate. Riverdale has a very large elderly community which means they may not be able to afford the fares, but ultimately it comes down to comparing the other premium services in the area. Most areas of Queens you're talking about has the express bus, and they are used. The issue is not the cost but rather that they aren't as fast as say the LIRR. The current price of the LIRR and lack of transfers in comparison to the express bus is the issue. The people willing to pay $6.50 for the express bus will use this service. I mean someone who can barely afford the subway is not upgrading to an even more expensive service. This is really geared towards middle class people. The people already using MNRR in areas like Riverdale generally are upper middle to upper class, earning at or above that 92k median household income you noted, so they will use the service regardless. VG8 buddy pal I don't need a breakdown of where I'm from PS24 to PS81 I have over 50+ years of history up yonder figured we established that at this point. My point working /middle class starts just below $50k so these are people that can 100% afford the subway but are not using the Express Bus what's the ridership on lines that serve these area's QM21 X63, X64? There's no hardcut in income lines your missing a large middle segment. NYC's a bubble as well looking at the bigger picture if you make more than $30k that's more than 53% of Americans over $100K your in the top 7% more then 92% of your fellow countrymen. I think you need to recalibrate your perception of wealth and status you might be a bit out of touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted February 9, 2017 Share #47 Posted February 9, 2017 VG8 buddy pal I don't need a breakdown of where I'm from PS24 to PS81 I have over 50+ years of history up yonder figured we established that at this point. My point working /middle class starts just below $50k so these are people that can 100% afford the subway but are not using the Express Bus what's the ridership on lines that serve these area's QM21 X63, X64? There's no hardcut in income lines your missing a large middle segment. NYC's a bubble as well looking at the bigger picture if you make more than $30k that's more than 53% of Americans over $100K your in the top 7% more then 92% of your fellow countrymen. I think you need to recalibrate your perception of wealth and status you might be a bit out of touch. QM21, those express buses in Eastern Queens have low ridership and ridership that has been declining over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 10, 2017 Share #48 Posted February 10, 2017 $4.75 sounds about right... As for some of the previous discussions I missed, I agree with the consensus that there should be a third service level between subway and commuter rail akin to London Overground. This should conceivably include Triboro RX... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted February 10, 2017 Share #49 Posted February 10, 2017 QM21, those express buses in Eastern Queens have low ridership and ridership that has been declining over the years Bus ridership i. g. has been declining, because of poor service, longer run times, etc. Both the x63 and QM21 have +/- 1.25 hour run times to Midtown (scheduled). One can accomplish the same thing by taking the Q111, 114 or 5 to Archer ave and going that way. I don't understand people who would shell out $6.50 for mediocre time savings. LIRR saves massive amounts of time for SE queens commuters. Rosedale LIRR to Borough Hall is currently 1.5 hours (Q111 - - ) at $2.75. For $6.50, one could do the same trip in 40 minutes (LIRR - / ). That is 50 more minutes of sleep in the morning, and 50 more minutes of time at home in the evening. In other words, each day, commuters will gain 1:40 of time. That is worth a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted February 10, 2017 Share #50 Posted February 10, 2017 $4.75 sounds about right... As for some of the previous discussions I missed, I agree with the consensus that there should be a third service level between subway and commuter rail akin to London Overground. This should conceivably include Triboro RX... I totally agree ,in Japan commuter rails is basically a subway that's extended into the suburbs. Those things have subway seating and require people pushers. I don't know why some part of the LIRR can't be turned into this service (especially the urbanization of Nassau County) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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