Weekend X28 service to be permanently restored

[IAlam]

Again who is using it? There isn't enough ridership from Coney Island or Sea Gate to extend all trips. Most of Coney Island consists of people living in housing projects who simply can't afford the express bus. There are some homeowners down there, but not enough of them to justify such service. Sea Gate while better off overall than Coney Island, is simply too small to have so much service. On weekends it's different because you have less traffic and the trips are faster, so you can have all trips start at Sea Gate and pick up whoever gets on until you reach Bensonhurst. However, during the week, you would have to extend quite a few trips down there and the cost to do so would make no sense. Now if there was a complex down there such as the one in Brighton Beach it would make sense. Ever since the X29 was eliminated, there have been rumblings about bringing that service back, especially from those folks. If anything you could extend some X28 buses over there where they'll be used and then you can justify such extensions.

 

I was one of the people that pushed to have the X28 restored fully to Sea Gate on weekends to make it more marketable to those who wanted to go to Coney Island for a baseball game or for the amusement park, but most of the people that signed our petitions were from Dyker Heights, Bay Ridge, Bath Beach or Bensonhurst, who were pissed that the gave priority to those in the affluent areas of Shore Road in Bay Ridge for the X27 to run, but didn't provide such priority for the return of the X28. Those on the Bay Ridge/Dyker Heights border and Bensonhurst and Bath Beach would have to travel too far west to access the X27 and were too far from the subway, not to mention that some were elderly, so that was one reason the push continued over the years. The X17 was always a short-term "solution", but since it only served a sliver of the Bay Ridge/Dyker Heights border, it too wouldn't suffice long term. The next push is to try to have both lines run later on weekends, but that will take some time.

 

It's important to note that the affluent Dyker Heights, along with Bensonhurst and Bath Beach are represented by different politicians as opposed to Sea Gate and Coney Island, and that made a big difference in how the line was restored.

It sucks because there is now way of getting to Coney Island via Express buses now expect during the rush, an extension to Coney would be great during the Summer season to provide a subway alternative. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It sucks because there is now way of getting to Coney Island via Express buses now expect during the rush, an extension to Coney would be great during the Summer season to provide a subway alternative. 

Well select trips could  be extended, but not all of them.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It sucks because there is now way of getting to Coney Island via Express buses now expect during the rush, an extension to Coney would be great during the Summer season to provide a subway alternative. 

I forgot that the X29 used to actually run to Sea Gate.  The decided to cut back the X29 and have some X28 buses extended to Sea Gate, which is why you have the set up that you currently have, so clearly there wasn't enough ridership to have so much service there.  Prior to the extension, the X28 only ran to Bensonhurst.

[IAlam]

I forgot that the X29 used to actually run to Sea Gate.  The decided to cut back the X29 and have some X28 buses extended to Sea Gate, which is why you have the set up that you currently have, so clearly there wasn't enough ridership to have so much service there.  Prior to the extension, the X28 only ran to Bensonhurst.

That makes much more sense, but maybe the MTA could look into extending some X28 trips to Coney Island for the summer cause that would be great. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That makes much more sense, but maybe the MTA could look into extending some X28 trips to Coney Island for the summer cause that would be great.

 

Perhaps, but there would still need to be ridership there to justify that.

[IAlam]

Perhaps, but there would still need to be ridership there to justify that.

The MTA needs to market it, maybe one of those DIY getaways.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The MTA needs to market it, maybe one of those DIY getaways.

They seem to market those sorts of things more on Metro-North.

[IAlam]

They seem to market those sorts of things more on Metro-North.

Yeah and a lot of those getaways are actually pretty decent, so it can probably bring a small boost of ridership to the line, if marketed correctly.

[bobtehpanda]

The MTA needs to market it, maybe one of those DIY getaways.

 

As much as I love the idea of it, getting people to ride a premium fare bus to Coney Island is a bit rich, if only because Coney Island is one of the worse beaches in the metro area, and already has plentiful transit connections.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As much as I love the idea of it, getting people to ride a premium fare bus to Coney Island is a bit rich, if only because Coney Island is one of the worse beaches in the metro area, and already has plentiful transit connections.

Even so, given how many trains are knocked out at any time, since you have buses already going to Sea Gate, might as well market the service for baseball games out there and other activities.

[Dan1]

I forgot that the X29 used to actually run to Sea Gate.  The decided to cut back the X29 and have some X28 buses extended to Sea Gate, which is why you have the set up that you currently have, so clearly there wasn't enough ridership to have so much service there.  Prior to the extension, the X28 only ran to Bensonhurst.

Speaking of the X29, here is the original 1972 new service flyer for the B29X, as it was called then.

 

B29X new service 02/14/1972 (pdf)

[Eric B]

Wow; so it stayed on the Expwy and went via Beverly one way? I always said all of these express routes should use Beverley, as getting off early and using McDonald Ave. is so out of the way Church/CI/Cortelyou are so busy, and with sharper turns. Wonder why they changed it.

[Dan1]

Wow; so it stayed on the Expwy and went via Beverly one way? I always said all of these express routes should use Beverley, as getting off early and using McDonald Ave. is so out of the way Church/CI/Cortelyou are so busy, and with sharper turns. Wonder why they changed it.

While Beverly Road is a busy 2-way street, it's a residential block and the residents frequently complained to the MTA. Eventually all the express buses were routed via McDonald Ave to Church Ave which added time to the trip. Sometime in the late 1970s maybe. A quicker re-route would have been to have the express buses exit at Fort Hamilton Parkway, the take East 5th Street, which is (technically NY27 anyway), then left onto Caton Avenue, right onto Coney Island Ave, etc. But then I guess the residents of East 5 Street would understandably be the ones complaining.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

While Beverly Road is a busy 2-way street, it's a residential block and the residents frequently complained to the MTA. Eventually all the express buses were routed via McDonald Ave to Church Ave which added time to the trip. Sometime in the late 1970s maybe. A quicker re-route would have been to have the express buses exit at Fort Hamilton Parkway, the take East 5th Street, which is (technically NY27 anyway), then left onto Caton Avenue, right onto Coney Island Ave, etc. But then I guess the residents of East 5 Street would understandably be the ones complaining.

That part of Kensington (Beverley Road) consists of well-to-do homeowners. Generally very quiet compared to the busier Cortelyou Road, so it makes sense.

[Eric B]

Since these are only express buses, it's not like it's adding that much more traffic. And some of those people would be among the riders, and among the drivers on Church and Cortelyou Rds. They see no problem in how slow it is and how already congested those streets are?

It's just funny how sometimes the city will do what people want, and other times they don't.

[Dan1]

Since these are only express buses, it's not like it's adding that much more traffic. And some of those people would be among the riders, and among the drivers on Church and Cortelyou Rds. They see no problem in how slow it is and how already congested those streets are?

It's just funny how sometimes the city will do what people want, and other times they don't.

Dead issue now. When I lived in Kensington the NYCDOT had endless proposals regarding the Beverly Road area. Beverly Road 1-way east from Church Ave to Coney Isl Ave paired with converting all of Avenue C to 1-way west. Beverly 1-way east from Church to Ocean Avenue, etc, etc. Nothing ever came of these proposals.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Since these are only express buses, it's not like it's adding that much more traffic. And some of those people would be among the riders, and among the drivers on Church and Cortelyou Rds. They see no problem in how slow it is and how already congested those streets are?

It's just funny how sometimes the city will do what people want, and other times they don't.

I can understand their issues though.  The express buses run near me but when streets are blocked off, sometimes they will run right near my block which is a very quiet residential area, and the sound of roaring express buses can be a bit jarring when you're not used to hearing them.  I think it makes much more sense to have them run via Cortelyou Road, even with the extra delays.  

[Dan1]

I can understand their issues though.  The express buses run near me but when streets are blocked off, sometimes they will run right near my block which is a very quiet residential area, and the sound of roaring express buses can be a bit jarring when you're not used to hearing them.  I think it makes much more sense to have them run via Cortelyou Road, even with the extra delays.  

Buses on residential streets can be a problem for residents. One of the reasons the S52 was never extended to Richmond Road was objections from residents of Seaview Ave and Garretson Ave. But Rose Avenue residents have had the S57 on their street for years with few complaints.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Buses on residential streets can be a problem for residents. One of the reasons the S52 was never extended to Richmond Road was objections from residents of Seaview Ave and Garretson Ave. But Rose Avenue residents have had the S57 on their street for years with few complaints.

That's the thing.  When people move to a block, they immediately think about the noise factor.  I live on a very quiet tree-lined street with very little traffic, so the idea of an express bus even running near me is a non-starter.  The worse noise that I get is the occasional airplane or Metro-North in the far distance (crazy that I can hear it that far from the Spuyten Duvyil station but you can on occasion).  Staten Island is even worse because it is very car centric and anti transportation (even express buses).  You have some car drivers in such areas as the one mentioned above (Beverley Road) that are proud that they haven't stepped foot on any kind of public transportation (even express buses).  They like that whole living in city, but in a more quiet suburban like setting, as do I.

[checkmatechamp13]

A couple of points (the quote feature doesn't seem to be working right now)

 

* Considering the X17 stop has remained while the X28 was in operation these past few months, I see no reason they would discontinue it now. I think they realize that it's become rather popular for Brooklyn-SI travel.

 

* The reason most X28/38 trips end at Cropsey/Canal is because it's close to the depot (I know the depot is right by the B3/B6 terminal, but still). I do, however agree that extending off-peak trips to Sea Gate or maybe somewhere around Trump & Warbasse would be beneficial.

 

* The X27 had higher ridership than the X28 (I forget offhand, but it was something like 1080 per weekend compared to 760 or something like that). On top of that, Dyker Heights is closer to the Gowanus which allowed them to have some service in the general area by way of the X17. Also, it's a longer route to Sea Gate (or even Bensonhurst) compared to Bay Ridge/Fort Hamilton, so the X28 requires an extra bus or two compared to the X27. So that's why they were quicker to restore the X27 compared to the X28.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A couple of points (the quote feature doesn't seem to be working right now)

 

* Considering the X17 stop has remained while the X28 was in operation these past few months, I see no reason they would discontinue it now. I think they realize that it's become rather popular for Brooklyn-SI travel.

 

* The reason most X28/38 trips end at Cropsey/Canal is because it's close to the depot (I know the depot is right by the B3/B6 terminal, but still). I do, however agree that extending off-peak trips to Sea Gate or maybe somewhere around Trump & Warbasse would be beneficial.

 

* The X27 had higher ridership than the X28 (I forget offhand, but it was something like 1080 per weekend compared to 760 or something like that). On top of that, Dyker Heights is closer to the Gowanus which allowed them to have some service in the general area by way of the X17. Also, it's a longer route to Sea Gate (or even Bensonhurst) compared to Bay Ridge/Fort Hamilton, so the X28 requires an extra bus or two compared to the X27. So that's why they were quicker to restore the X27 compared to the X28.

The primary reasons for the X28 not being restored with the X27 were ridership and cost.  All of the extras are irrelevant. I'd go one further and say that political clout played a role as well.  Before you go saying otherwise, I was directly involved during the YEARS that it took to get this service restored and was given first hand information from the people I worked with to get it restored, so I know what I'm talking about.  At the time, the stated that they just didn't have enough funding to restore both of them simultaneously as much as they wanted to.  Then they tried to imply that there wasn't enough ridership to do such a thing years later, citing the "closeness" of the train as an alternative. Nevertheless, all of us involved agreed that we would continue to petition until the route was restored in full to Sea Gate on weekends.  It was also easier to restore the X27 because Senator Golden represented all of the areas where the X27 ran versus only part of the areas that the X28 ran to, which meant having to get other politicians involved to team up and be in agreement.  That's essentially what happened.  Everyone got together and formed a coalition.  It was really great to be honest.  Each office that I contacted was more than willing to spread the petitions around to get signatures.

[Eric B]

Dead issue now. When I lived in Kensington the NYCDOT had endless proposals regarding the Beverly Road area. Beverly Road 1-way east from Church Ave to Coney Isl Ave paired with converting all of Avenue C to 1-way west. Beverly 1-way east from Church to Ocean Avenue, etc, etc. Nothing ever came of these proposals.

I had also thought of Avenue C as an alternative, but that would only work for the X29, not the BM routes. It's also bringing the buses a block further down Ocean Pkwy, and I thought that would be the first barrier to the idea (not realizing until now that they once did run on the Pkwy to Beverly), so I try to get them off of te parkway as quick as possible. I guess running them all across Ave. C, and then the BM's continuing on Cortelyou would eliminate the sharp turns, Church Ave. and having to get off the Expwy early.

I can understand their issues though.  The express buses run near me but when streets are blocked off, sometimes they will run right near my block which is a very quiet residential area, and the sound of roaring express buses can be a bit jarring when you're not used to hearing them.  I think it makes much more sense to have them run via Cortelyou Road, even with the extra delays.  

Are they really even all that loud now? With all the engines as four-stroke, they sound pretty much like small trucks now. I know the old two- strokes were pretty loud (and also more pollutant).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Are they really even all that loud now? With all the engines as four-stroke, they sound pretty much like small trucks now. I know the old two- strokes were pretty loud (and also more pollutant).

They aren't as loud as the old feet but you can definitely still hear them. Here in Riverdale they run mostly along Henry Hudson Parkway which is great because the parkway itself takes care of some of the noise and the buildings are set back away from the street, plus you have trees as a buffer.

[Around the Horn]

I don't now about the new MCI's as Ulmer hasn't had them around for about 6 or 7 years now, but those Prevosts are LOUD. There are sometimes I'm walking on Narrows Avenue over to the B9, B64 stop and I'm still a couple blocks away and can hear them clear as day.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't now about the new MCI's as Ulmer hasn't had them around for about 6 or 7 years now, but those Prevosts are LOUD. There are sometimes I'm walking on Narrows Avenue over to the B9, B64 stop and I'm still a couple blocks away and can hear them clear as day.

lol... I really don't know what the rave is about those buses.  I think the build quality is garbage when compared to the MCI buses.