N6 Limited Posted April 19, 2017 Share #126 Posted April 19, 2017 Idk, but let's stick to the topic at hand here They share 2 Stations why would you name the Rockaway service to a different letter they associated the train with the Rockaways since the beginning of time , say you are a noob to nyc and you wanted to go to the airport you would take the train not any other train, in that sense then you can rename the lefferts service to either an extended or your malarkey idea of A "noob" would take the to Sutphin Blvd or an Uber directly to the Airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted April 19, 2017 Share #127 Posted April 19, 2017 But there's no in Kennedy! Yes, Airport starts with A, but " for Kennedy" is pretty easy to remember. Easier than " for Airport" because we have more than one. Besides, Kennedy Airport didn't even exist when Billy Strayhorn composed "Take the Train" back in 1939. And the was extended to Lefferts Blvd years before it was also extended to the Rockaways, so as the older service, Lefferts should get to keep the letter . I suppose what could be done is have the terminate at WTC with the and run this express in Manhattan and local in Brooklyn to Lefferts and leave as-is, but then you cause problems on the . Or run to Lefferts express on Fulton Street, alternating with like and and and do. Since already operates like that - alternating between Lefferts and Rockaway, it's just changing the roll sign. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ They share 2 Stations A "noob" would take the to Sutphin Blvd or an Uber directly to the Airport. Savvy travelers who flew in to JFK and hates the Bx12 buses but have some money took the LIRR to Hunts Point, to GCT and the to Fordham... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted April 19, 2017 Share #128 Posted April 19, 2017 I suppose if the express is limited to rush hours only, then it would probably be better to use an designation (which is not on the R46 cars, so the would have to run R160s only). I've always understood the diamond bullets to denote rush hours-only services. But if it runs all day and into the early evening hours, then I think it should get a different letter like , because it would be running for a substantially longer time each weekday. I always thought it asinine to have and for skip-stop, but given that double letters went away in the 80s, that makes more sense. But since is running substantially on a separate track, calling it doesn't seem necessary since rider confusion won't be rampant because of NTT stop announcements as well as having to "turn around" to get on it or . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted April 19, 2017 Share #129 Posted April 19, 2017 Note that and are serving different stops than and , making them different ish services. Diamond trains are just misssing stops, an easier-to-understand service change to a route than skip stop. Even if is not just for rush hours, I think that we still don't need a . The runs all day, and the used too. And fwiw, this is the only forum I can think of where the mods are wholly ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted April 19, 2017 Share #130 Posted April 19, 2017 Note that and are serving different stops than and , making them different ish services. Diamond trains are just misssing stops, an easier-to-understand service change to a route than skip stop. Even if is not just for rush hours, I think that we still don't need a . The runs all day, and the used too. And fwiw, this is the only forum I can think of where the mods are wholly ignored. If you can do a that would also work, if only to distinguish it from the regular that would still run local. And if I were at a Park Slope local stop, especially if I were working along 8th Avenue if a came first I'd simply take that to Hoyt-Schermerhorn and do the walkover to get the . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted April 19, 2017 Share #131 Posted April 19, 2017 Steering this back on track... I suppose if the express is limited to rush hours only, then it would probably be better to use an designation (which is not on the R46 cars, so the would have to run R160s only). I've always understood the diamond bullets to denote rush hours-only services. But if it runs all day and into the early evening hours, then I think it should get a different letter like , because it would be running for a substantially longer time each weekday. A slight correction. When the diamond services were introduced in '79, they meant rush hour services. That's why we had such routes like the to Whitehall St and the full line, despite both of those running as locals. In 2005, the definition of diamond services came to mean express variants of local services, which is why only the and now qualify. As for the designation of the proposed express, I'd also go with . I cannot see foresee Transit spending money on new signs for the 50 or so 46s the currently uses. Using a different letter in this case will better convey which route is the express and which is the local given the inability to easily discern express and local trains as it's done on the and lines. As it will be nearly ten years since the elimination of the service in 2010, I do not see any issues with re-purposing the letter for Culver Local/Express service. I always thought it asinine to have and for skip-stop, but given that double letters went away in the 80s, that makes more sense. Before the designation was introduced in '88, skip-stop service was run using only the line. Skip-stop trains made either A or B stops, which wasn't an easy thing to tell unless you were familiar with the routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted April 19, 2017 Share #132 Posted April 19, 2017 But where exactly would this run and where would it end? You certainly can not terminate it at Forest Hills, so I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agar io Posted April 19, 2017 Share #133 Posted April 19, 2017 As for the designation of the proposed express, I'd also go with . I cannot see foresee Transit spending money on new signs for the 50 or so 46s the currently uses. Which would probably lead the MTA to not use R46s on the express service. I guess the MTA could use designation on the R160s only. It's consistent with the and express variants, which pair with their respective local routes through their core sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted April 19, 2017 Share #134 Posted April 19, 2017 I mean, that's the only sensible thing to do. There literally is no point in a whole new designation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted April 20, 2017 Share #135 Posted April 20, 2017 Note that and are serving different stops than and , making them different ish services. Diamond trains are just misssing stops, an easier-to-understand service change to a route than skip stop. Even if is not just for rush hours, I think that we still don't need a . The runs all day, and the used too. And fwiw, this is the only forum I can think of where the mods are wholly ignored. an would also denote peak direction service meaning one way only so if it is 2 way service then it may create another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3F Posted April 20, 2017 Share #136 Posted April 20, 2017 an would also denote peak direction service meaning one way only so if it is 2 way service then it may create another issue. The ran in both directions, weekdays and evenings, between 2001 and 2004, and it was perfectly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted April 20, 2017 Share #137 Posted April 20, 2017 why would you name the Rockaway service to a different letter they associated the train with the Rockaways since the beginning of time , say you are a noob to nyc and you wanted to go to the airport you would take the train not any other train, in that sense then you can rename the lefferts service to either an extended or your malarkey idea of So it's "malarkey" to want to make a subway line used by people getting to and from Kennedy Airport a bit more user-friendly? Um...okay... And you might want to read up on the history of train service to/from the Rockaways before you say "they associated the train with the Rockaways since the beginning of time." Notice I said "train service..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted April 20, 2017 Share #138 Posted April 20, 2017 an would also denote peak direction service meaning one way only so if it is 2 way service then it may create another issue. It's still an additional to the Local. Just like the and . Just bi-directional. I think it's only going to be rush hours. So it's "malarkey" to want to make a subway line used by people getting to and from Kennedy Airport a bit more user-friendly? Um...okay... And you might want to read up on the history of train service to/from the Rockaways before you say "they associated the train with the Rockaways since the beginning of time." Notice I said "train service..." Dude, the Rockaways didn't become more of a permanent residence for common people until the LIRR was converted to subway, served by the A. Before that, it was a haven for the rich and amusement parks. Yeah, the letter changed a few times, but for most of the time since the conversion to subway, it has been served by the A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted April 20, 2017 Share #139 Posted April 20, 2017 But where exactly would this run and where would it end? You certainly can not terminate it at Forest Hills, so I'm confused. It would start at 179th St/Jamaica and end at Stillwell Ave. Just like it would if it were an . What's so confusing about that? The ran in both directions, weekdays and evenings, between 2001 and 2004, and it was perfectly fine.That's certainly true. But the was meant to be a temporary designation for the Brighton Express service. They never planned to keep it once the Manhattan Bridge work was completed, unlike this service, which would presumably be a permanent service. But there was something interesting I found about the way Transit advertised the . They always showed it alongside the regular service on the maps and on the station signs. In fact I found many stations served by the , where they later went back and pasted a sticker in a random space on the sign. On platform signs in Manhattan, the destination info was always shown separately the regular destination info. It's almost as if they were treating it as a separate service, rather than a sub-service of the . I wonder if that's what they'll do with the . If so, then they might as well use a different letter, like . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted April 20, 2017 Share #140 Posted April 20, 2017 But there was something interesting I found about the way Transit advertised the . They always showed it alongside the regular service on the maps and on the station signs. In fact I found many stations served by the , where they later went back and pasted a sticker in a random space on the sign. On platform signs in Manhattan, the destination info was always shown separately the regular destination info. It's almost as if they were treating it as a separate service, rather than a sub-service of the . Well, yes that was the case and IIRC, the and even had different fleets: R68/As on the and R40/Ms and R42s on the . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3F Posted April 20, 2017 Share #141 Posted April 20, 2017 Well, yes that was the case and IIRC, the and even had different fleets: R68/As on the and R40/Ms and R42s on the . That is correct. Once the was replaced with the in 2004, the started using the R40/Ms and R42s instead, while the used R68/As the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted April 20, 2017 Share #142 Posted April 20, 2017 Well, yes that was the case and IIRC, the and even had different fleets: R68/As on the and R40/Ms and R42s on the . The R42s didn't go to CIY until the North side of the Manhattan Bridge was finally reopen with the exception of 4460/4665 which went a year prior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share #143 Posted April 20, 2017 I didn't like the move to 6 Avenue because of possibility of Culver Express service returned. That said, with the returning, I think the best way to operate the is to operate it rush hours only and have it serve as the Culver Local since its last service operation was a Queens Blvd Local. Off note: I would've liked the as a rush hour op only too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted April 20, 2017 Share #144 Posted April 20, 2017 Back on the topic of using diamond symbols; The SMEE put ins on the have their rollsigns always set on diamond when they come into service. That is correct. Once the was replaced with the in 2004, the started using the R40/Ms and R42s instead, while the used R68/As the whole time. I thought the later replaced the when it was on Broadway to reduce the confusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3F Posted April 20, 2017 Share #145 Posted April 20, 2017 I thought the later replaced the when it was on Broadway to reduce the confusion?The replaced the on the West End line in 2001, and was cut back to Whitehall Street when the began running on the West End line in 2004. It has no direct relationship with the yellow line, although the routes may have been similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted April 20, 2017 Share #146 Posted April 20, 2017 It has no direct relationship with the yellow line, although the routes may have been similar. Nope he's actually right. It was mainly to reduce confusion of having both a Orange and Yellow Trains. In a way the routes was somewhat the same. The only few differences was the W ran Express on Astoria during peak hours (Until January 2002) and the Yellow only went to Astoria during Rush Hours. Otherwise the routes wasn't that different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted April 20, 2017 Share #147 Posted April 20, 2017 The R42s didn't go to CIY until the North side of the Manhattan Bridge was finally reopen with the exception of 4460/4665 which went a year prior. Ah, thanks for correcting that. I got my SMEEs mixed up (and TBH I never really used the , only saw it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 21, 2017 Share #148 Posted April 21, 2017 I didn't like the move to 6 Avenue because of possibility of Culver Express service returned. That said, with the returning, I think the best way to operate the is to operate it rush hours only and have it serve as the Culver Local since its last service operation was a Queens Blvd Local. Off note: I would've liked the as a rush hour op only too The Culver Express can still run using half the current trains. Nope he's actually right. It was mainly to reduce confusion of having both a Orange and Yellow Trains. In a way the routes was somewhat the same. The only few differences was the W ran Express on Astoria during peak hours (Until January 2002) and the Yellow only went to Astoria during Rush Hours. Otherwise the routes wasn't that different He's saying that they didn't just say "You know what, a yellow B is too confusing, let's replace it with the (W)". They had the yellow B, then had the run to West End, and then when they closed the bridge the second time, decided that instead of bringing back the yellow B, to call the service . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted April 25, 2017 Share #149 Posted April 25, 2017 I didn't like the move to 6 Avenue because of possibility of Culver Express service returned. That said, with the returning, I think the best way to operate the is to operate it rush hours only and have it serve as the Culver Local since its last service operation was a Queens Blvd Local. Off note: I would've liked the as a rush hour op only too Why rush hours only? I think the demand for midday and early evening express service is there, both for (Culver express) and . The Culver Express can still run using half the current trains.Yes, it certainly can. It'll just result in less service at the local stations between Church and Jay. And between the local and the , there will still be relatively frequent service at those stops. If they can schedule northbound G's to meet up with the expresses at 7th Ave, that would cut down on the number of riders who would be impacted by the loss of half the F's. Maybe this time it'll work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biGC323232 Posted April 25, 2017 Share #150 Posted April 25, 2017 Why rush hours only? I think the demand for midday and early evening express service is there, both for (Culver express) and . Yes, it certainly can. It'll just result in less service at the local stations between Church and Jay. And between the local and the , there will still be relatively frequent service at those stops. If they can schedule northbound G's to meet up with the expresses at 7th Ave, that would cut down on the number of riders who would be impacted by the loss of half the F's. Maybe this time it'll work. I agree.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.