NY1: MTA vows to improve bus service

[paulrivera]

http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/transit/2017/03/20/mta-vows-to-improve-bus-service.html

 

We finally got them to admit there's a problem with the bus system.

 

Discuss...

[danielhg121]

How do we know they're actually gonna do this? And heavier fines for parking in bus lanes so people eventually stop doing it cause they are afraid. Delivery companies like ups or fedex pay a fixed price for all the tickets they get.

 

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

Once again Charles Moerdler is the voice of reason. Another thing mentioned... Why is signal priority on so few lines? We have all of these new shiny buses coming in, but the technology is slow to take hold. Finally maybe just maybe they'll stop cutting the damn service (officially and unofficially) and touting how great their cost cutting measures are. We need to stop any cuts to service until this mess can be turned around.

[paulrivera]

They're only committing to 2 traffic signal priority corridors (out of hundreds of bus corridors, why only a couple?) and 3 SBS routes (the M79 and two others, presumably the Bx6 and a Brooklyn route based on what I've read on the forum)

 

I think everything else is malarkey. Although, the first step towards any kind of recovery is admitting there's a problem, so props to the MTA for finally owning up.

[nuyorican]

q44 sbs should get traffic signal priority

[Around the Horn]

I'll say what I'm pretty sure everyone's thinking when they read this headline:

 

Bullshit!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'll say what I'm pretty sure everyone's thinking when they read this headline:

 

Bullshit!

The one thing they really seem sold on is SBS.  The problem I have with it is since they want it to do well, they take the steps to at least try to get buses moving and back on schedule.  I just don't understand why other routes don't receive the same priority?  

[bobtehpanda]

Once again Charles Moerdler is the voice of reason. Another thing mentioned... Why is signal priority on so few lines? We have all of these new shiny buses coming in, but the technology is slow to take hold. Finally maybe just maybe they'll stop cutting the damn service (officially and unofficially) and touting how great their cost cutting measures are. We need to stop any cuts to service until this mess can be turned around.

 

 

The one thing they really seem sold on is SBS.  The problem I have with it is since they want it to do well, they take the steps to at least try to get buses moving and back on schedule.  I just don't understand why other routes don't receive the same priority?  

 

There are two major problems with wide-scale adoption of TSP (traffic signal prioriity)

 

1. DOT. DOT manages traffic lights. An MTA bus can only get sped through a light if the light also has signal priority enabled. AFAIK TSP-enabled lights are not actually that common yet.
2. The most congested places in the city also tend to be places where lots of busy bus routes cross. At, say, the Junction, if a B6 and a B44 pull up to the intersection at the same time, how do you determine which one gets the light extended, if any of them do? Both are busy, crowded bus routes that slow down in that area a lot.

That being said, I feel like DOT could be more aggressive, particularly implementing stuff like queue jumps, which I haven't seen around here. (For those unfamiliar with the term, a queue jump is essentially a pocket bus lane at intersections that gets the light before regular traffic does, to give the bus a head start.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There are two major problems with wide-scale adoption of TSP (traffic signal prioriity)

 

1. DOT. DOT manages traffic lights. An MTA bus can only get sped through a light if the light also has signal priority enabled. AFAIK TSP-enabled lights are not actually that common yet.
2. The most congested places in the city also tend to be places where lots of busy bus routes cross. At, say, the Junction, if a B6 and a B44 pull up to the intersection at the same time, how do you determine which one gets the light extended, if any of them do? Both are busy, crowded bus routes that slow down in that area a lot.

That being said, I feel like DOT could be more aggressive, particularly implementing stuff like queue jumps, which I haven't seen around here. (For those unfamiliar with the term, a queue jump is essentially a pocket bus lane at intersections that gets the light before regular traffic does, to give the bus a head start.)

Well all of this will take more money, and Vision Zero has already cost a fortune, so add this into the mix and we'll see...  It seems as if they do it along the M86 at at least one light.  At Park and 86th I've noticed a few times now that the light seems to hold green longer than expected. I could be wrong, but the bus almost never seems to get stuck there going towards Lex.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

How do we know they're actually gonna do this? And heavier fines for parking in bus lanes so people eventually stop doing it cause they are afraid. Delivery companies like ups or fedex pay a fixed price for all the tickets they get.

 

 

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Have Transit bureau cops do surface duty to stop farebeaters

 

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q44 sbs should get traffic signal priority

The Bx12 SBS should too. I'd say drivers are most inconsiderate in that corridor.

 

They double park in the middle of the street just to fetch takeout and they're there for half an hour arguing with the cashier when their card gets declined.

 

I watched something like this unfold from the window. Cashier's expression was priceless ????

 

And to add further insult, the dedicated lanes paint wore off or ceded to parking.

 

I feel that Nimbys are going to be an obstacle to better bus service.

 

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[Around the Horn]

Have Transit bureau cops do surface duty to stop farebeaters

LMAO are you paying for that?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LMAO are you paying for that?

Which cops are those? If they're the ones outside of Grand Central, why not?  They do absolutely nothing.  

[Around the Horn]

Which cops are those? If they're the ones outside of Grand Central, why not? They do absolutely nothing.

I think he's talking about the cops in the subway...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think he's talking about the cops in the subway...

Well if he means NYPD cops, they already have those types undercover.  The only problem is they don't use them on a consistent basis.  

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

LMAO are you paying for that?

Per the 1994 arrangement, it should be a matter of allocation.

 

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Which cops are those? If they're the ones outside of Grand Central, why not? They do absolutely nothing.

The ones that serve the subway system.

District 19 would be best positioned. I think that's the one closest to the Bronx Zoo.

 

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[Union Tpke]

 

 

There are two major problems with wide-scale adoption of TSP (traffic signal prioriity)

 

1. DOT. DOT manages traffic lights. An MTA bus can only get sped through a light if the light also has signal priority enabled. AFAIK TSP-enabled lights are not actually that common yet.
2. The most congested places in the city also tend to be places where lots of busy bus routes cross. At, say, the Junction, if a B6 and a B44 pull up to the intersection at the same time, how do you determine which one gets the light extended, if any of them do? Both are busy, crowded bus routes that slow down in that area a lot.

That being said, I feel like DOT could be more aggressive, particularly implementing stuff like queue jumps, which I haven't seen around here. (For those unfamiliar with the term, a queue jump is essentially a pocket bus lane at intersections that gets the light before regular traffic does, to give the bus a head start.)

As you probably know, they do queue jumping Seattle.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

 

 

They'd be able to oversee the corridors covered by the Q44 SBS as well.

They could forge a partnership with the city DOT so they can use extra eyes. This way resources are targeted and not wasted. [emoji327]

 

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As you probably know, they do queue jumping Seattle.

The new TZx is being considered for that in Westchester, as well.

 

I attended a planning committee last fall in Tarrytown. They intend to equip 2700 traffic signals in Westchester & Rockland with that feature.

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

Per the 1994 arrangement, it should be a matter of allocation.

 

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The ones that serve the subway system.

District 19 would be best positioned. I think that's the one closest to the Bronx Zoo.

 

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Are they NYPD or transit cops though? 

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

Are they NYPD or transit cops though?

They're an offshoot if I remember. In a similar sense, so are the Whitecaps, DHSPD & Brooklyn Library security.

 

They bear the same seal. Just different brass pins.

 

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[JubaionBx12+SBS]

What measurable improvement does TSP offer anyway? The Bx12 has it and I can tell you from riding it I don't notice any kind of special treatment at lights. If anything drivers wait at stops too long and end up sitting through red lights for no reason. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What measurable improvement does TSP offer anyway? The Bx12 has it and I can tell you from riding it I don't notice any kind of special treatment at lights. If anything drivers wait at stops too long and end up sitting through red lights for no reason. 

Well that seems to be one issue with the artics.  The bus stops aren't long enough in some cases to allow for more than one of them, so if the first bus doesn't pull in far enough, well then you're waiting at the light for sure on that next bus.  It's annoying and that's also something that needs to be addressed.  It happens all of the time on the M101/M102/M103, and it slows down service.  Also gives drivers an excuse to drag the damn line.  

[paulrivera]

That being said, I feel like DOT could be more aggressive, particularly implementing stuff like queue jumps, which I haven't seen around here. (For those unfamiliar with the term, a queue jump is essentially a pocket bus lane at intersections that gets the light before regular traffic does, to give the bus a head start.)

There is exactly one intersection where that exists on all of the Bx12: 207th Street and 9th Avenue, at the foot of the 207th Street bridge.

 

I believe they have bus lane cameras and traffic light extender device thingys near the Concourse as well, but they don't seem to work.

 

The one thing they really seem sold on is SBS.  The problem I have with it is since they want it to do well, they take the steps to at least try to get buses moving and back on schedule.  I just don't understand why other routes don't receive the same priority?  

The other routes do, it's called short turning and dead heading and abandoning runs. I saw with my own two eyes the other day a Bx22 on Fordham that was going to short turn at Westchester Avenue and I couldn't believe it. In all my years, I have never seen a Bx22 do a short turn, EVER.

[Fresh Pond]

 

 

There is exactly one intersection where that exists on all of the Bx12: 207th Street and 9th Avenue, at the foot of the 207th Street bridge.

There's on Astoria Blvd for the M60. After leaving the 31 St stop going to the bridge, the curb lane doubles as a "bus lane" so buses waiting to get on the bridge leave first and avoid flying across all those lanes just to get over.

 

It also helps whatever Q19 gets caught there too and they leave first before traffic does.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Well that seems to be one issue with the artics.  The bus stops aren't long enough in some cases to allow for more than one of them, so if the first bus doesn't pull in far enough, well then you're waiting at the light for sure on that next bus.  It's annoying and that's also something that needs to be addressed.  It happens all of the time on the M101/M102/M103, and it slows down service.  Also gives drivers an excuse to drag the damn line.  

While that is a concern, i'm speaking mainly to drivers on the Bx12 SBS that hold the doors open far longer than the necessary dwell times at certain stops in front of lights with the light becoming red while the doors were held open. The two stops where this happens the most are the Williamsbridge and Eastchester Road stops eastbound.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There is exactly one intersection where that exists on all of the Bx12: 207th Street and 9th Avenue, at the foot of the 207th Street bridge.

 

I believe they have bus lane cameras and traffic light extender device thingys near the Concourse as well, but they don't seem to work.

 

The other routes do, it's called short turning and dead heading and abandoning runs. I saw with my own two eyes the other day a Bx22 on Fordham that was going to short turn at Westchester Avenue and I couldn't believe it. In all my years, I have never seen a Bx22 do a short turn, EVER.

The thing is though bus bunching, even with them short turning buses is worsening, so it isn't really helping. It doesn't seem to be consistent either, with the exception of lines like the M86, which they clearly cater to, and even then, that line suffers, but not as bad as others because it isn't a long route overall.  Nevertheless, regardless of the length of the line, there is no way in hell that situations such as FOUR BxM2 buses running a mere 5-10 minutes apart should be happening, leading to others having to wait 40+ for a bus on a line that is supposed to have two buses an hour most of the day, and roughly four buses during most of the rush.  

 

I also think there needs to be more uniformity.  That is still a major problem and it's really annoying.  We can't continue to have B/Os doing their own thing.  One guy doesn't want to be written up for running hot, so he leaves the terminal 10 minutes late, NEVER gets back on schedule, and by the time he reaches the other terminal, he is now 20+ minutes BEHIND schedule.  I had this last Saturday evening on the BxM2.  I tracked the bus from 35th & 6th as I waited further up the line.  He had been on break for quite some time and then came late, and the trip took almost an hour and 30 minutes, for what should've been roughly an hour trip. Then said driver likely does the same thing heading Southbound, but the thing is, he has enough layover time to get back on schedule so he isn't really inconvenienced.  Just that the passengers have to constantly put up with longer trips and late buses.  If the guy doesn't have a lot of layover time, well then he likely never gets back on schedule, and every trip he's later and later, so much so that they may not even bother sending him out to do certain runs after a while.  It's crazy.  I can tolerate it now because I only use the buses for select trips, but it's really out of control.  I look at BusTime and just can't believe how long certain trips take compared to what they used to take just a few years ago.  

 

You even see B/Os chatting among themselves from bus to bus talking about how they leave the terminal late so that they aren't running hot, so that means that the schedules need to be re-written.  However, there are some drivers that perpetually run late to milk overtime, and those drivers need to be dealt with too.  We had a guy who for quite some time would always arrive at least 20 minutes behind schedule, and each time, his bus could not be found on BusTime.  I took note of the pattern and started filing complaints because it was evident what was going on.  

 

 

While that is a concern, i'm speaking mainly to drivers on the Bx12 SBS that hold the doors open far longer than the necessary dwell times at certain stops in front of lights with the light becoming red while the doors were held open. The two stops where this happens the most are the Williamsbridge and Eastchester Road stops eastbound.

Well that's just an example of what I was saying before... Another BS excuse to slow down service. I don't get that either. If they're SBS buses, why are they sitting at stops for prolonged periods of time?  I was under the impression that they're supposed to keep it moving. Some B/Os follow this and will literally slam the door as you try to get a ticket (I had one moron close the door on me as I was trying to board even though just a few of us were boarding), and others will hold the door for everyone coming out of the subway and elsewhere, even when no one is in sight originally.  It's another example of the inconsistency I talked about earlier.  I don't see any reason to hold the door unless the light is red. The M86 has that set up where drivers will keep the doors open at those stops, and that makes sense because it allows people to get their ticket and board quickly until the light changes.